MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Aircraftcarrier on February 14, 2016, 12:30:45 PM
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Something tells me Mu will have more than 2 scholarships open
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Something tells me Mu will have more than 2 scholarships open
Who else is leaving other then Henry?
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I hope nobody leaves. There also are not of players out there that could really help next year and there is a lot of competition for those players.
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The recruiting for 2016 leads me to think that will be the case.
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If anyone leaves that will really suck.
Edit: Especially if that someone is JJJ. (Which is just the first person who came to mind because for whatever reason he is always surrounded by transfer tumors)
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If anyone leaves that will really suck.
Edit: Especially if that someone is JJJ. (Which is just the first person who came to mind because for whatever reason he is always surrounded by transfer tumors)
+1000
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It really was a waste that Heldt and Anim were not redshirted this year. One of the reasons UW has had so much consistent success is that Ryan always tried to redshirt freshmen that were not ready.
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Hate these threads. Statistically speaking, someone is going to leave. The nature of the college basketball beast, these days. To whomever may leave, good luck. Find a good fit.
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It really was a waste that Heldt and Anim were not redshirted this year. One of the reasons UW has had so much consistent success is that Ryan always tried to redshirt freshmen that were not ready.
The only players to redshirt for UW on last year's Final Four team were Gasser due to knee injury and Dukan due to mono. Koenig, Dekker, Frank, Jackson, Hayes... None of them redshirted.
UW has not redshirted a significant player "because they were not ready" on either of the last two teams. All were due to injury or illness. (IOW, like Duane Wilson)
Or you could decide to call Zak Schowalter "significant." (I don't.)
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The only players to redshirt for UW on last year's Final Four team were Gasser due to knee injury and Dukan due to mono. Koenig, Dekker, Frank, Jackson, Hayes... None of them redshirted.
UW has not redshirted a significant player "because they were not ready" on either of the last two teams. All were due to injury or illness. (IOW, like Duane Wilson)
Or you could decide to call Zak Schowalter "significant." (I don't.)
Ethan Happ?
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Ethan Happ?
He wasn't on either of the Final Four teams. (He was redshirting.)
I don't have any problems with an occasional redshirt. Amin would have been a good choice this year. I just don't think its one of the reasons why UW has had more consistent success. Over the course of Bo's tenure, they have just redshirted a couple guys who went on to become significant contributors.
Their success has everything to do with solid, consistent coaching, and a commitment regarding the types of players they want in their program. Redshirting has had little to do with it.
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He wasn't on either of the Final Four teams. (He was redshirting.)
I just don't think its one of the reasons why UW has had more consistent success. Over the course of Bo's tenure, they have just redshirted a couple guys who went on to become significant contributors.
Quick google search:
Butch - all big ten honorable mention
Berggeren - 2nd team all big ten
Ryan Evans - all big ten honorable mention
Uthoff - left shortly after
Jordan Hill
Happ
Some decent players chose to redshirt. More of a culture thing I guess. MU could utilize it more
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Quick google search:
Butch - all big ten honorable mention
Berggeren - 2nd team all big ten
Ryan Evans - all big ten honorable mention
Uthoff - left shortly after
Jordan Hill
Happ
Some decent players chose to redshirt. More of a culture thing I guess. MU could utilize it more
So three that ended up being contributors. One likely contributor. One TDB. None on last year's team. Like I said..."a couple."
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So three that ended up being contributors. One likely contributor. One TDB. None on last year's team. Like I said..."a couple."
My bad I thought couple meant 2
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My bad I thought couple meant 2
an indefinite small number.
"he hoped she'd be better in a couple of days"
synonyms: some, a few, a handful of, one or two
"I have a couple of things to do"
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Quick google search:
Butch - all big ten honorable mention
Berggeren - 2nd team all big ten
Ryan Evans - all big ten honorable mention
Uthoff - left shortly after
Jordan Hill
Happ
Some decent players chose to redshirt. More of a culture thing I guess. MU could utilize it more
Never understood red shirting a McDonald's AA. Most burger boys would never do it.
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an indefinite small number.
"he hoped she'd be better in a couple of days"
synonyms: some, a few, a handful of, one or two
"I have a couple of things to do"
I hear you. I was being serious, not sarcastic earlier. I thought you meant 2 :)
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The rodents red shirt a lot of players. They also dress up 18-20 players per game.
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Never understood red shirting a McDonald's AA. Most burger boys would never do it.
Butch was very thin at the time. It would have been a wasted year.
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The recruiting for 2016 leads me to think that will be the case.
Why? You know the number of offers out there because you subscribe the website that it was put on. For two open spots there are not that many offers out there right now. Pretty focused actually.
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Despite the fact that no one is a senior on this team, I still feel there will be significant roster turnover (no pun) next year. Can't see JJ leaving though. That one makes no sense. Think he is poised for a breakout year next year.
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I've heard nothing to suggest anyone is leaving. Doesn't mean its not happening though. I would be surprised.
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Something tells me Mu will have more than 2 scholarships open
With posts like this, who needs trolls?
If you've got something put it out there, otherwise you're just poking around for a reaction.
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13 open for 2016-17 as of today, ai'n'al?
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13 open for 2016-17 as of today, ai'n'al?
Exactly.
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Why? You know the number of offers out there because you subscribe the website that it was put on. For two open spots there are not that many offers out there right now. Pretty focused actually.
The offers and interest are all over twitter. But when I see a wing offered, and Wojo tracking another 2G for 2016, it makes me wonder how it'll all fit with 8 guys at the wing spots next year.
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The offers and interest are all over twitter. But when I see a wing offered, and Wojo tracking another 2G for 2016, it makes me wonder how it'll all fit with 8 guys at the wing spots next year.
Someone likely leaving. Just the way it is
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We are rebuilding a program and at this point still need to take the old Dallas Cowboys approach of the best available athlete. We need to be recruiting guys now who are going to be good sophomores and juniors in a couple of years. Also taking a hard look at all available transfers and grad students. If we could pick up a grad transfer stud forward it would be huge.
As for guys leaving I don't see it. Luke is not going anywhere. JJJ is poised for a big senior year. Duane is a hometown guy with family roots here and Wojo loves him. Sandy's sister plays on the Womans team and if he transferred he would have to go to a weaker conference and less glamorous setting. Haanif Heldt Anim and Carter are all very happy. Rowsey just sat out a year and is all in for the program.
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What makes you think Anim is happy? Not saying he isn't, but he's the last scholarship player on the bench and we'll bring in another wing -- maybe 2, if you count Rowsey -- next season. Don't know that his playing time is likely to increase any time soon.
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What makes you think Anim is happy? Not saying he isn't, but he's the last scholarship player on the bench and we'll bring in another wing -- maybe 2, if you count Rowsey -- next season. Don't know that his playing time is likely to increase any time soon.
He seems to have a good attitude and expressed up front that he knew his first year would be like it has been. Hauser or any other freshman we recruit wont take minutes from him. There will be 30 more minutes to go around when Henry leaves . If Henry stays he is then on what will likely be a very strong team. Also next year he will get a lot more time in cupcake games.
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As far as redshirting goes, doesn't half of that decision need to be the player's? If he's unwilling to redshirt, I suppose the coaching staff can't necessarily force him to.
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I don't know, Howard seems to play like an undersized wing too. More a scorer than a pure point right now. Looks like Wojo is looking for a scorer and a big.
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So three that ended up being contributors. One likely contributor. One TDB. None on last year's team. Like I said..."a couple."
I think there were actually more than that. Some players did not work out. Bo would of definitely redshirted Cadougan after his injury. Outside of Wilson(injury) what freshmen has MU redcraped over the last 15 years. There is no doubt in my mind that a fifth year of Heldt would of been significantly more valuable than what he is able to give us this year. You would not redshirt a player that does not have a chance to contribute in the future, but in that case you should not of recruited that player in the first place. You also would not redshirt a player that has a chance to leave early. Of course a player has to agree, but if you are honest about their playing time it may not be so hard to convince them.
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I think there were actually more than that. Some players did not work out. Bo would of definitely redshirted Cadougan after his injury. Outside of Wilson(injury) what freshmen has MU redcraped over the last 15 years. There is no doubt in my mind that a fifth year of Heldt would of been significantly more valuable than what he is able to give us this year. You would not redshirt a player that does not have a chance to contribute in the future, but in that case you should not of recruited that player in the first place. You also would not redshirt a player that has a chance to leave early. Of course a player has to agree, but if you are honest about their playing time it may not be so hard to convince them.
UW has redshirted other players. But what's the point of redshirting guys like Evan Anderson and JP Gavinsky when all it does is tie up a scholarship for another year? And I'm not against redshirting. I just dispute your assertion that redshirting has anything to do with Bo's success at UW...mostly because very few of his quality players redshirted.
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He seems to have a good attitude and expressed up front that he knew his first year would be like it has been. Hauser or any other freshman we recruit wont take minutes from him. There will be 30 more minutes to go around when Henry leaves . If Henry stays he is then on what will likely be a very strong team. Also next year he will get a lot more time in cupcake games.
Making assumptions, positively or negatively, about how players "seem" to be is probably the least significant way to determine who is going to be here next year. That's what lead to people asserting that JJJ was going to leave.
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Whatever happens, happens. It's not like we're one guy away from being Top 10. I'm viewing this a little like the Brewers. Oh, another guy got traded? Whatever.
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Whatever happens, happens. It's not like we're one guy away from being Top 10. I'm viewing this a little like the Brewers. Oh, another guy got traded? Whatever.
Ouch. Aren't the Brewers deliberately tanking in order to get higher draft picks? They haven't gotten any talent in return that can replace the major league production that they've traded, have they? (Not a rhetorical question, I don't follow the Brewers, so I'm not sure)
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Bo would of definitely redshirted Cadougan after his injury.
IIRC, Buzz wanted to redshirt Junior, but Junior wanted to play as a freshman for psychological reasons. And Buzz, trying to establish his reputation as a players' coach, relented.
That being said, you very well might be right that Bo would have forced Junior to redshirt.
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Ouch. Aren't the Brewers deliberately tanking in order to get higher draft picks? They haven't gotten any talent in return that can replace the major league production that they've traded, have they? (Not a rhetorical question, I don't follow the Brewers, so I'm not sure)
No, the Brewers aren't tanking. They're accumulating and stockpiling as may talented "freshmen" as they can that could be major league contributors (some hopefully stars) in 2-3 years, and they're giving up their major league also-rans to get them.
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No, the Brewers aren't tanking. They're accumulating and stockpiling as may talented "freshmen" as they can that could be major league contributors (some hopefully stars) in 2-3 years, and they're giving up their major league also-rans to get them.
They Brewers are tanking. They just won't trade Braun because no one will give anything significant without the Crew eating his whole contract. LuCror will be moved ASAP. Gonna be a good race between the Brewers and Reds for #1 pick next year.
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Ouch. Aren't the Brewers deliberately tanking in order to get higher draft picks? They haven't gotten any talent in return that can replace the major league production that they've traded, have they? (Not a rhetorical question, I don't follow the Brewers, so I'm not sure)
I'm not trying to draw an exact parallel. My only point is that if some player decides to leave that he'll be replaced. And we're no where near good enough today to anoint anyone here as the second coming. So if Sacar were to decide to transfer (please, I'm not saying he is or should), would it make any difference at all? I'd say no, that's all. Moreover, it would seem extremely unlikely that any in the top 7-8 (except HE, of course) will go anywhere. All got very solid minutes and ample opportunity.
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They Brewers are tanking. They just won't trade Braun because no one will give anything significant without the Crew eating his whole contract. LuCror will be moved ASAP. Gonna be a good race between the Brewers and Reds for #1 pick next year.
I'm with brewcity here. When you talk "tanking" you're saying a team is intentionally losing for the sole purpose of moving up your draft position. The Brewers are not tanking, they are rebuilding. The farm system was a joke for the Brewers and the major league product was average at best, bad at worst. The Brewers needed to rebuild their system and they've done it in a year. Guys like Adam Lind aren't going to help the Brewers organization ever win, so if you can get young pieces for someone like him who can eventually help you you make the move without even thinking about it. The moves the Brewers have made have nothing to do about the draft and everything to do about getting pieces for the future. Baseball teams don't really build through the draft, so they don't really tank very often.
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I'm with brewcity here. When you talk "tanking" you're saying a team is intentionally losing for the sole purpose of moving up your draft position. The Brewers are not tanking, they are rebuilding. The farm system was a joke for the Brewers and the major league product was average at best, bad at worst. The Brewers needed to rebuild their system and they've done it in a year. Guys like Adam Lind aren't going to help the Brewers organization ever win, so if you can get young pieces for someone like him who can eventually help you you make the move without even thinking about it. The moves the Brewers have made have nothing to do about the draft and everything to do about getting pieces for the future. Baseball teams don't really build through the draft, so they don't really tank very often.
Exactly right. Baseball isn't the NBA.
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I'm with brewcity here. When you talk "tanking" you're saying a team is intentionally losing for the sole purpose of moving up your draft position. The Brewers are not tanking, they are rebuilding. The farm system was a joke for the Brewers and the major league product was average at best, bad at worst. The Brewers needed to rebuild their system and they've done it in a year. Guys like Adam Lind aren't going to help the Brewers organization ever win, so if you can get young pieces for someone like him who can eventually help you you make the move without even thinking about it. The moves the Brewers have made have nothing to do about the draft and everything to do about getting pieces for the future. Baseball teams don't really build through the draft, so they don't really tank very often.
Agree with all of this except for the last sentence. Drafts are critical to a team's success. No Bryant or Schwarber (or Baez) without the draft for the Cubs. You are correct in stating that trading for minor league talent is also important in rebuilding a farm system. But, the foundation of a farm system starts with drafting well (see the [f'ing] Cards).
Edit: There are are 40 rounds in the amateur draft. That's 40 players going into your system every year! Short of the Yankees, you need to get it right more often than not to have sustained success (though even Cashman now gets that you can't throw money at all the problems all of the time now).
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Whatever happens, happens. It's not like we're one guy away from being Top 10. I'm viewing this a little like the Brewers. Oh, another guy got traded? Whatever.
Not to be argumentative but assuming everyone stays except, and our recruits come in next year we would literally be a Henry Ellenson away from being a top 10 team next year so we would be one guy away.
The argument for a lot of the losses this year are youth and inexperience(which I agree with) so next year we wouldn't have that. Also the Big East will be less good in total than it was this year as there is a lot of senior talent leaving (Dunn, Dunham, Roosevelt Jones, DSR, Ryan A, etc) and young talent likely leaving like Ellenson and Whitehead.
All in all, we've got bad timing, if we had this years team last year, we're top 4 in Big East or if we had next year's team this year we're top 5 in the Big East. Bad year to have no experience.
But either way, I stand-by the statement that we are one above average to great college play away from being top 10. We'll see what happens in the Juco/Grad transfer market. Maybe we get a Damion Lee type transfer this year as the missing piece.
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It's hard to redshirt anyone when you only have 10 eligible players on your team.
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Not to be argumentative but assuming everyone stays except, and our recruits come in next year we would literally be a Henry Ellenson away from being a top 10 team next year so we would be one guy away.
The argument for a lot of the losses this year are youth and inexperience(which I agree with) so next year we wouldn't have that. Also the Big East will be less good in total than it was this year as there is a lot of senior talent leaving (Dunn, Dunham, Roosevelt Jones, DSR, Ryan A, etc) and young talent likely leaving like Ellenson and Whitehead.
All in all, we've got bad timing, if we had this years team last year, we're top 4 in Big East or if we had next year's team this year we're top 5 in the Big East. Bad year to have no experience.
But either way, I stand-by the statement that we are one above average to great college play away from being top 10. We'll see what happens in the Juco/Grad transfer market. Maybe we get a Damion Lee type transfer this year as the missing piece.
You beat me to it. If everybody returns next year, this is a top 10 team. If Henry Leaves and MU picks up a Damion Lee type and a freshman 6'8 mauler, along with Hauser and Rowsey, MU is a tournament team and probably ranked most of the season. I believe with every fiber of my being that a year of experience with this team will make that much difference. But there has to be some size picked up with the last scholarship(s). I know Howard is really good, but if MU gets him and no size, then it is a fringe tourney team.
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You beat me to it. If everybody returns next year, this is a top 10 team. If Henry Leaves and MU picks up a Damion Lee type and a freshman 6'8 mauler, along with Hauser and Rowsey, MU is a tournament team and probably ranked most of the season. I believe with every fiber of my being that a year of experience with this team will make that much difference. But there has to be some size picked up with the last scholarship(s). I know Howard is really good, but if MU gets him and no size, then it is a fringe tourney team.
I would believe this if we were playing more consistently at this point in the year - specifically our guard play. Vander made a jump yr 1 to 2 but his real jump was year 3. I hope the lights turn on but based on the last 3 weeks of bball - I am having a hard time seeing it. Nothing would make me happier than being wrong.
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I'm with brewcity here. When you talk "tanking" you're saying a team is intentionally losing for the sole purpose of moving up your draft position. The Brewers are not tanking, they are rebuilding. The farm system was a joke for the Brewers and the major league product was average at best, bad at worst. The Brewers needed to rebuild their system and they've done it in a year. Guys like Adam Lind aren't going to help the Brewers organization ever win, so if you can get young pieces for someone like him who can eventually help you you make the move without even thinking about it. The moves the Brewers have made have nothing to do about the draft and everything to do about getting pieces for the future. Baseball teams don't really build through the draft, so they don't really tank very often.
I'm not a Brewers fan, but I am an avid follower of baseball. This is totally off topic, but...the Brewers were in a real bad spot. They didn't really have a choice but to do what they did / are doing. You certainly can get an organizational changing players by drafting in top 5, although it's not as easy or quick as it is in other sports. I mean, the Brewers are rebuilding - I don't anticipate them being horrible for a decade in the mode of the Astros, KC, Cubs, etc. I suppose that is tanking...but the Brewers are not attempting to put a competitive product on the field in 2016 and they will almost certainly be drafting in the top 5 again.
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It's hard to redshirt anyone when you only have 10 eligible players on your team.
Bingo.
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I'm not a Brewers fan, but I am an avid follower of baseball. This is totally off topic, but...the Brewers were in a real bad spot. They didn't really have a choice but to do what they did / are doing. You certainly can get an organizational changing players by drafting in top 5, although it's not as easy or quick as it is in other sports. I mean, the Brewers are rebuilding - I don't anticipate them being horrible for a decade in the mode of the Astros, KC, Cubs, etc. I suppose that is tanking...but the Brewers are not attempting to put a competitive product on the field in 2016 and they will almost certainly be drafting in the top 5 again.
We probably just have different definitions of "tanking." I think you very, very rarely see what I would define as "tanking" in baseball. It does happen, but it's only when there's a guy like Bryce Harper that will be the #1 pick in the draft, a guy who is a once in a generation talent. And teams only "tank" (again, in my definition) for a guy like that when they are already out of contention. But what also tends to happen with teams that aren't in contention for a Playoff spot is they start giving their young players who aren't necessarily completely ready to play every day a lot more playing time to get a better idea of what they've got with those players and what they need to focus on in the offseason based on that information, so even then it's not totally "tanking" just to move up in the draft.
But yes, the draft does help, and being higher up in the draft gives you a better chance of getting a player who is going to contribute positively to your organization. But in a draft with 40 rounds and so many players drafted, getting the #1 overall pick in the draft and hitting on all your picks becomes far less important than it is in the NBA or even the NFL.
The Brewers were certainly not trying to win this year, so in that sense then yes the Brewers are "tanking."
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IMO...
"Tanking" is intentionally losing for the sake of getting a higher draft pick. Or better yet, making your team so weak that it will lose enough to get that pick.
The Brewers aren't tanking. The Brewers would be thrilled if they made a playoff run next year even if it harms their draft position. As wades said, your draft position isn't as important in MLB as it is in the NBA. What the Brewers are doing is building their farm system back up, and the only way they could effectively do that is by trading current assets for future ones. That means losing in the near term, but not intentionally so.
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Tanking in the traditional sense doesn't happen much in baseball. There are too many factors at play to intentionally lose games. But there is more to being bad than just "getting a higher draft pick". You get higher international signing pools, you get a protected first round pick if you finish in the bottom ten, meaning a player that was offered the QO won't cost you your 1st rounder.
But there is basically punting a season, which by all account the Brewers are doing in 2016.
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Not to be argumentative but assuming everyone stays except, and our recruits come in next year we would literally be a Henry Ellenson away from being a top 10 team next year so we would be one guy away.
The argument for a lot of the losses this year are youth and inexperience(which I agree with) so next year we wouldn't have that. Also the Big East will be less good in total than it was this year as there is a lot of senior talent leaving (Dunn, Dunham, Roosevelt Jones, DSR, Ryan A, etc) and young talent likely leaving like Ellenson and Whitehead.
All in all, we've got bad timing, if we had this years team last year, we're top 4 in Big East or if we had next year's team this year we're top 5 in the Big East. Bad year to have no experience.
But either way, I stand-by the statement that we are one above average to great college play away from being top 10. We'll see what happens in the Juco/Grad transfer market. Maybe we get a Damion Lee type transfer this year as the missing piece.
I suppose your right eng, I guess I'm just burned out. I think they can be marginally better next year.
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I'm tankful for Ellenson, hey?
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Whatever happens, happens. It's not like we're one guy away from being Top 10. I'm viewing this a little like the Brewers. Oh, another guy got traded? Whatever.
Eh, Damion Lee would certainly have helped. Not top 10 but at least a tourney team.
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I suppose your right eng, I guess I'm just burned out. I think they can be marginally better next year.
And now we've flipped from the beginning of the season ;D I think this team is pretty cooked for this season (though I think they could be very dangerous in the NIT) but the experience has been invaluable. Also I think they are showing more ability/lessons learned this season then last year ever did. Get an off season of conditioning/lifting/practice in, add Rowsey and hopefully a rebounder via transfer/JuCo and we are in a really good position next year.
Plus, if we are marginally better next year that'll be a pretty good next gain relative to Big East specifically and NCAA generally as there is a ton of talent/experience leaving after this season. i.e. we get a little better and the Big East gets easier = top 4 finish next year.
Respect the process ;D
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And now we've flipped from the beginning of the season ;D I think this team is pretty cooked for this season (though I think they could be very dangerous in the NIT) but the experience has been invaluable. Also I think they are showing more ability/lessons learned this season then last year ever did. Get an off season of conditioning/lifting/practice in, add Rowsey and hopefully a rebounder via transfer/JuCo and we are in a really good position next year.
Plus, if we are marginally better next year that'll be a pretty good next gain relative to Big East specifically and NCAA generally as there is a ton of talent/experience leaving after this season. i.e. we get a little better and the Big East gets easier = top 4 finish next year.
Respect the process ;D
Does the Big East get worse next year? I ask this honestly, because I'm not sure.
Providence definitely gets worse.
Seton Hall gets worse if Whitehead or Delgado leaves.
SJU gets better.
Nova I am convinced will be the same.
Georgetown should be the same or better (DSR leaves, freshmen get older).
Creighton loses Grosellle and Milliken, gets Marcus Foster.
Depaul will probably improve marginally.
Butler should take a step back.
Xavier is going to be really good again.
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And now we've flipped from the beginning of the season ;D I think this team is pretty cooked for this season (though I think they could be very dangerous in the NIT) but the experience has been invaluable. Also I think they are showing more ability/lessons learned this season then last year ever did. Get an off season of conditioning/lifting/practice in, add Rowsey and hopefully a rebounder via transfer/JuCo and we are in a really good position next year.
Plus, if we are marginally better next year that'll be a pretty good next gain relative to Big East specifically and NCAA generally as there is a ton of talent/experience leaving after this season. i.e. we get a little better and the Big East gets easier = top 4 finish next year.
Respect the process ;D
I remember all that optimism during the 'prediction podcast' eng. Wasn't this about the time we were supposed to go on a massive win streak to get to your 11-7 or 12-6? ::)
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Not to be argumentative but assuming everyone stays except, and our recruits come in next year we would literally be a Henry Ellenson away from being a top 10 team next year so we would be one guy away.
The argument for a lot of the losses this year are youth and inexperience(which I agree with) so next year we wouldn't have that. Also the Big East will be less good in total than it was this year as there is a lot of senior talent leaving (Dunn, Dunham, Roosevelt Jones, DSR, Ryan A, etc) and young talent likely leaving like Ellenson and Whitehead.
All in all, we've got bad timing, if we had this years team last year, we're top 4 in Big East or if we had next year's team this year we're top 5 in the Big East. Bad year to have no experience.
But either way, I stand-by the statement that we are one above average to great college play away from being top 10. We'll see what happens in the Juco/Grad transfer market. Maybe we get a Damion Lee type transfer this year as the missing piece.
Pomeroy final ranking from 2015:
Villanova 6
Butler 20
Xavier 22
Gtown 24
Providence 30
St. Johns 49
Creighton 85
Seton Hall 107
MU 110
DePaul 167
Pomeroy ranking for this year:
Villanova 1
Xavier 17
Seton Hall 35
Creighton 42
Providence 57
Gtown 62
MU 106
DePaul 166
St Johns 247
Even if this year is the best in the history of college basketball (it isn't) and last year was the worst (it wasn't) there is no way this year's Marquette team (ranked #106) is top 4, top 5 or top 6 in last year's Big East (4, 5 and 6 were #24 Georgetown, #30 Providence or #49 St Johns). Likely not ahead of 7th best #85 Creighton either.
We were bad last year and we're about the same amount of bad this year. Good news is that this year's bad team loses only one starter, not three. Bad news is that one is by far our best player. Let's break into the top 100 before we start talking about what it will take to get us into the top 10.
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We were bad last year and we're about the same amount of bad this year. Good news is that this year's bad team loses only one starter, not three. Bad news is that one is by far our best player. Let's break into the top 100 before we start talking about what it will take to get us into the top 10.
I would agree that the results of this team have been equally terrible as last year. Difference is we are likely seeing most of our players not yet playing at peak production for their career. Couldn't say that last year.
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Lenny. Butler?
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St. John's - better but still not very good.
Xavier - a little worse but still good.
Seton Hall - depends on who leaves - could be better and very good or could be worse and not great.
Georgetown - slightly worse and not great.
Butler - worse but solid.
Providence - worse and okay.
Creighton - worse and not great.
DePaul - they are what they are.
Nova - a little worse but still very good.
Depending on what we get with our last scholarship(s) we could be towards the top of the BE fighting for 3rd.
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St John's supposedly will be a lot better next year. The announcers (probably MU game) for a St. John's game are expecting St. John's to do very well in the spring signing period. Apparently they are very close on some available recruits.
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St John's supposedly will be a lot better next year. The announcers (probably MU game) for a St. John's game are expecting St. John's to do very well in the spring signing period. Apparently they are very close on some available recruits.
As we have learned, signing a bunch of really good frosh doesn't necessarily translate into being "a lot" better the first year.
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St. John's - better but still not very good.
Xavier - a little worse but still good.
Seton Hall - depends on who leaves - could be better and very good or could be worse and not great.
Georgetown - slightly worse and not great.
Butler - worse but solid.
Providence - worse and okay.
Creighton - worse and not great.
DePaul - they are what they are.
Nova - a little worse but still very good.
Depending on what we get with our last scholarship(s) we could be towards the top of the BE fighting for 3rd.
Creighton will be better. Still plenty of bigs. Lots of players ready to step up. Will have the best PG in the league leading the way.
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St John's supposedly will be a lot better next year. The announcers (probably MU game) for a St. John's game are expecting St. John's to do very well in the spring signing period. Apparently they are very close on some available recruits.
Still alive with 5 stars Thon Maker & Rawle Alkins
They already have a nice recruiting class (top 50 HS kid, 247 #1 ranked JUCO, and a top 50 Euro from Bayern Munich) + Marcus Lovett (top 100) from Chi who wasn't a full qualifier this season who will be eligible next season
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Lenny. Butler?
47 this year - sorry I left them out.
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I remember all that optimism during the 'prediction podcast' eng. Wasn't this about the time we were supposed to go on a massive win streak to get to your 11-7 or 12-6? ::)
That is true, which is why I've gone so pessimistic late this year, but despite the loses and struggles you can see the nuggets there that weren't there last year.
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Pomeroy final ranking from 2015:
Villanova 6
Butler 20
Xavier 22
Gtown 24
Providence 30
St. Johns 49
Creighton 85
Seton Hall 107
MU 110
DePaul 167
Pomeroy ranking for this year:
Villanova 1
Xavier 17
Seton Hall 35
Creighton 42
Providence 57
Gtown 62
MU 106
DePaul 166
St Johns 247
Even if this year is the best in the history of college basketball (it isn't) and last year was the worst (it wasn't) there is no way this year's Marquette team (ranked #106) is top 4, top 5 or top 6 in last year's Big East (4, 5 and 6 were #24 Georgetown, #30 Providence or #49 St Johns). Likely not ahead of 7th best #85 Creighton either.
We were bad last year and we're about the same amount of bad this year. Good news is that this year's bad team loses only one starter, not three. Bad news is that one is by far our best player. Let's break into the top 100 before we start talking about what it will take to get us into the top 10.
I'm not totally sold that KenPom rankings are the way to run this analysis but I get why you did it and not sure of a better way to run the analysis. This just feels like a much tougher year as MU has gotten statistically better in almost every category from last year but still is performing at about the same level as last year. Plus there were a fair number of games last year, especially early in the conference season that this year's talent could have swung (Xavier on the road, Butler at home are two that come to mind).
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I'm not totally sold that KenPom rankings are the way to run this analysis but I get why you did it and not sure of a better way to run the analysis. This just feels like a much tougher year as MU has gotten statistically better in almost every category from last year but still is performing at about the same level as last year. Plus there were a fair number of games last year, especially early in the conference season that this year's talent could have swung (Xavier on the road, Butler at home are two that come to mind).
Agreed. I realize most of these rankings systems are flawed, but any metric that ranks X outside of the top 10 isn't one you should use in a global analysis. I watch a crap ton of CBB, and X is one of the top 5 teams in the country. I am very confident and comfortable in saying that.
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I'm not totally sold that KenPom rankings are the way to run this analysis but I get why you did it and not sure of a better way to run the analysis. This just feels like a much tougher year as MU has gotten statistically better in almost every category from last year but still is performing at about the same level as last year. Plus there were a fair number of games last year, especially early in the conference season that this year's talent could have swung (Xavier on the road, Butler at home are two that come to mind).
Don't disagree - this does feel like a tougher year and this year's team feels better to me - but not better than 3 top 50 teams from last year. No way on that.
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Pomeroy final ranking from 2015:
Villanova 6
Butler 20
Xavier 22
Gtown 24
Providence 30
St. Johns 49
Creighton 85
Seton Hall 107
MU 110
DePaul 167
Pomeroy ranking for this year:
Villanova 1
Xavier 17
Seton Hall 35
Creighton 42
Providence 57
Gtown 62
MU 106
DePaul 166
St Johns 247
Even if this year is the best in the history of college basketball (it isn't) and last year was the worst (it wasn't) there is no way this year's Marquette team (ranked #106) is top 4, top 5 or top 6 in last year's Big East (4, 5 and 6 were #24 Georgetown, #30 Providence or #49 St Johns). Likely not ahead of 7th best #85 Creighton either.
We were bad last year and we're about the same amount of bad this year. Good news is that this year's bad team loses only one starter, not three. Bad news is that one is by far our best player. Let's break into the top 100 before we start talking about what it will take to get us into the top 10.
I don't give a rat's rump about what KenPom says. They had Wisconsin ranked No. 1 for about 10 years running.
I have eyes. I can see that this year's Marquette team is significantly better than last year's. Not even close. We've beaten a top-10 and two top-25s. Won a November tourney. Won in freakin' Madison, for cripe's sake. Were competitive against a lot of very good teams. We've had some bad losses too, of course -- as if we didn't last season.
We are much more fun to watch, too. So stop it with the KenPom. Use your eyes and your common sense.
As for the Big East being better or worse overall, that I don't know. I watch MU games but only occasionally glance for a minute or three at the others. I'll leave that to others to decide. Maybe KenPom even.
Otherwise, yes, I'm not too worried about when we'll break into the top 10.
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I don't give a rat's rump about what KenPom says. They had Wisconsin ranked No. 1 for about 10 years running.
Pomeroy started in 2002. Wisconsin has never finished #1 on Kenpom. Wisconsin has finished high because they have the 9th best winning % since 2000-2001 in entire NCAA:
http://www.sportingnews.com/list/4652937-top-college-basketball-teams-programs-decade/slide/347938
Wojo & a lot of others are big supporters of Pomeroy
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I don't give a rat's rump about what KenPom says. They had Wisconsin ranked No. 1 for about 10 years running.
I have eyes. I can see that this year's Marquette team is significantly better than last year's. Not even close. We've beaten a top-10 and two top-25s. Won a November tourney. Won in freakin' Madison, for cripe's sake. Were competitive against a lot of very good teams. We've had some bad losses too, of course -- as if we didn't last season.
We are much more fun to watch, too. So stop it with the KenPom. Use your eyes and your common sense.
As for the Big East being better or worse overall, that I don't know. I watch MU games but only occasionally glance for a minute or three at the others. I'll leave that to others to decide. Maybe KenPom even.
Otherwise, yes, I'm not too worried about when we'll break into the top 10.
Why use any statistical analysis when we have your eyes to guide us? Pomeroy, Sagarin, Nate Silver, etc., can shut down their operations in deference to your far superior "eye test".
You don't give a ret's ass about Pomeroy yet you use a totally worthless stat (we beat a top 10 team, whoopee!) to "prove" how much better we are than last year. I've seen Providence play several times this year and no way are they a top 10 team. They're #57 in Pomeroy, and that's about right.
Are we more fun to watch? There I'll agree with you. We were all very tired of watching Derrick, Juan, etc. A mediocre team of freshman is much more fun than a mediocre team of seniors. And there's the promise that freshmen get better. But for right now, we're only slightly better than last year.