MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Jockey on March 25, 2019, 11:08:21 AM
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In 1/3 of our games, our starting center scored 2 points or less.
Besides not scoring, he commits so many fouls that he is giving teams more points than he is scoring.
That is problem #1 for this team going forward.
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Inability to get the ball to the center that puts him in position to score is also a problem.
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I think the biggest problem John has is going for those massive blocks everyone loves.
Sure it looks amazing and gets everyone fired up. But they usually result in 4 different options.
A) he blocks the ball, it goes out of bounds. Opponents miss a bad shot on the inbounds.
B) he blocks the ball, it goes out of bounds. Opponents score on inbounds.
C) he misses the block, opponents get rebound due to no one being underneath anymore.
D) he fouls
Only 1 of those options goes in Marquette favor.
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Inability to get the ball to the center that puts him in position to score is also a problem.
Not its not!!! Theo is rudimentary at best scoring the ball n if he gets fouled is even worse. Ed travels half the time he touches it n throws the ball at the badket when he doesnt.
Ed plays hirrible defense yet rebounds well
Theo plays solid defense yet has zero iq on when to foul and when not to, his blocked shot hunting also affords tge other team tons of second chance opportunitues.
Ed is what he is. Hopefully Theo can continue to improve, but our situation at the is 5 is bad
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I think the biggest problem John has is going for those massive blocks everyone loves.
Sure it looks amazing and gets everyone fired up. But they usually result in 4 different options.
A) he blocks the ball, it goes out of bounds. Opponents miss a bad shot on the inbounds.
B) he blocks the ball, it goes out of bounds. Opponents score on inbounds.
C) he misses the block, opponents get rebound due to no one being underneath anymore.
D) he fouls
Only 1 of those options goes in Marquette favor.
I've been saying this on threads for a little bit now. You missed another thing that happens, which is he does not stop the drive when he can by playing solid position D, allowing the driver to go to the basket while hoping for a block, and he is late or misses and the driver scores.
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I think the biggest problem John has is going for those massive blocks everyone loves.
Sure it looks amazing and gets everyone fired up. But they usually result in 4 different options.
A) he blocks the ball, it goes out of bounds. Opponents miss a bad shot on the inbounds.
B) he blocks the ball, it goes out of bounds. Opponents score on inbounds.
C) he misses the block, opponents get rebound due to no one being underneath anymore.
D) he fouls
Only 1 of those options goes in Marquette favor.
Well, first, not every blocked shot goes out of bounds. I'm not even sure a majority does. Where's the option that goes "he blocks the ball, it goes to him or another defender?"
Theo does need to pick his spots a little better, which is part of the learning process. But I'm not sure what the alternative here is. Not try to effect the shot and allow clear path to the hoop? Try to take a charge? These seem like much worse alternatives.
The fact is, Theo's ability to protect the rim is a huge reason for MU's defensive improvement this year. Again, he needs to pick his spots better to avoid so much foul trouble, but let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater here.
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Why do people look at our Center spot like it's Theo versus Ed? Shouldn't we look at it like it's Theo plus Ed? Getting 35 mpg, 11 ppg, 9 boards per, 2.5 blocks, and only 2.5 TO per, is not a bad line from our Center position. Theo's fouls per 40 is still alarmingly high, but people were saying all off season that the fewer minutes Matt had to play, the better, and he only averaged 6. Getting more consistency could be seen as a problem, but if far from our #1 problem IMO.
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Well, first, not every blocked shot goes out of bounds. I'm not even sure a majority does. Where's the option that goes "he blocks the ball, it goes to him or another defender?"
Theo does need to pick his spots a little better, which is part of the learning process. But I'm not sure what the alternative here is. Not try to effect the shot and allow clear path to the hoop? Try to take a charge? These seem like much worse alternatives.
The fact is, Theo's ability to protect the rim is a huge reason for MU's defensive improvement this year. Again, he needs to pick his spots better to avoid so much foul trouble, but let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater here.
I just added another bad thing that Theo does by not stopping the penetration. I am looking at Theo as someone who is already a good defender but could be so much better. The one thing he does do that was not mentioned in this thread is alter shots that he doesn't block, and that is probably his biggest asset as a defender. I'd like to see him wall up more and alter shots rather than go full on sell out for a block mode. After all, he only averages about 2 blocked shots a game anyway.
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I just added another bad thing that Theo does by not stopping the penetration. I am looking at Theo as someone who is already a good defender but could be so much better. The one thing he does do that was not mentioned in this thread is alter shots that he doesn't block, and that is probably his biggest asset as a defender. I'd like to see him wall up more and alter shots rather than go full on sell out for a block mode. After all, he only averages about 2 blocked shots a game anyway.
That's reasonable, and what I mean by picking his spots better. But I don't want him to lose too much of his aggressiveness when it comes to protecting the rim. Despite some of the issues it may cause, it's still a net gain for the team defensively.
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Why do people look at our Center spot like it's Theo versus Ed? Shouldn't we look at it like it's Theo plus Ed? Getting 25 mpg, 11 ppg, 9 boards per, 2.5 blocks, and only 2.5 TO per, is not a bad line from our Center position. Theo's fouls per 40 is still alarmingly high, but people were saying all off season that the fewer minutes Matt had to play, the better, and he only averaged 6. Getting more consistency could be seen as a problem, but if far from our #1 problem IMO.
This is where I stand, too, IDJO.
I thought our 5 combination in most games provided the equivalent of a very solid role player. Theo learned to commit fewer moving screens, so I have confidence he can learn to commit fewer defensive fouls. Some of his fouls were the fault of Joey and Markus (and occasionally Sacar and BB) for letting their man right by them and forcing Theo into tough situations.
If you watch today's college ball, there are very few teams with classic, "post up and we'll get the ball to you" 5s. Indeed, I think Sam and Joey are our best post players and I think one thing Wojo needs to do better is figure out ways to get them more post touches. It would be nice if Sam were more assertive in that realm, too.
Our 5s (especially Morrow) miss a few too many bunnies, but both (especially Morrow) made some huge offensive plays for us this season. If the rest of our team improves around them, and if Theo makes some incremental improvements, I am quite satisfied with our 5 position next season. It's especially nice that we can put Joey there against certain teams.
Look ... Markus, whether hurt, tired, scouted better or all three, wasn't as good down the stretch. Sam wasn't as consistently good, especially on offense. Sacar was in and out of the scoring column. And Joey all but disappeared the second half of the season.
The play of Theo/Ed isn't what cost us a 3-seed.
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Why do people look at our Center spot like it's Theo versus Ed? Shouldn't we look at it like it's Theo plus Ed? Getting 25 mpg, 11 ppg, 9 boards per, 2.5 blocks, and only 2.5 TO per, is not a bad line from our Center position. Theo's fouls per 40 is still alarmingly high, but people were saying all off season that the fewer minutes Matt had to play, the better, and he only averaged 6. Getting more consistency could be seen as a problem, but if far from our #1 problem IMO.
Theo + Ed = 35 minutes per game, not 25.
My point was not to attack Theo. It was that he needs to do more - especially on the offensive end.
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Theo + Ed = 35 minutes per game, not 25.
My point was not to attack Theo. It was that he needs to do more - especially on the offensive end.
Duh, my bad, typo has been fixed.
If all Theo ever ends up being is a dump off/put back Center, I'm okay with that. We've had successful teams with centers like that. However, if he's going to be a real post presence, then I agree, 500 baby hooks with the right, and 500 baby hooks a day with the left, all off-season is what he needs.
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I hope Ike's back heals. Physically, he reminds me of all of those long-armed 6'10 players that have been accomplishing so much in the tourney.
Conversely, if Bailey and Joey both come back with 10 lbs of muscle next year, a line up of Joey, BB, and Sam can be run out there in short bursts. Joey and Sam both have excellent back to the basket moves. I think both were less than they could have been this year because of rehabbing leg surgeries. It is my hope both are a little stronger, a little quicker, and little more explosive next year.
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Theo was a huge factor in Marquette's improved defense this season (from 182nd to 41st in adjusted defensive efficiency per KenPom).
This was the first time in Wojo's tenure as head coach that the team seemed to get what man-to-man help defense was all about. Theo was at the center of that defensive system. But he and the team still have plenty of room to improve.
Both Theo (7.4) and Ed (5.7) averaged more than 5 fouls committed per 40 minutes. You can't play defense if you're not on the court. And we need their defensive presence. If they can find a way to improve here, I don't think a Top 25 defense is out of the question.
As for offense, we don't need Theo to score a lot. We have better offensive options -- although it would be nice if Markus could find him more often on pick and rolls for easy layups and dunks.
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Theo was a huge factor in Marquette's improved defense this season (from 182nd to 41st in adjusted defensive efficiency per KenPom).
This was the first time in Wojo's tenure as head coach that the team seemed to get what man-to-man help defense was all about. Theo was at the center of that defensive system. But he and the team still have plenty of room to improve.
Both Theo (7.4) and Ed (5.7) averaged more than 5 fouls committed per 40 minutes. You can't play defense if you're not on the court. And we need their defensive presence. If they can find a way to improve here, I don't think a Top 25 defense is out of the question.
As for offense, we don't need Theo to score a lot. We have better offensive options -- although it would be nice if Markus could find him more often on pick and rolls for easy layups and dunks.
I'm going to preference my question by saying that Theo's decision making does need to improve. However, how significantly were Theo's minute total's affected by foul trouble? I'm talking minutes as a whole, not just "oh, he's got two, he's gotta sit"?
Theo averaged just under 20 mpg, up fairly significantly from his just under 12 as a Freshman. We knew that we were gonna get about 15 from Ed, which is exactly what he averaged. That means that between Matt, and small ball with Joey/Sam we had to cover about 5 mpg. As much as I love Matt as an ambassador to this University, the fact that he had 19 games where he played fewer than 10 minutes, and only got his season high when Ed was hurt, is a testament to the minute distribution among our bigs.
When we have two capable center, neither has to play more than 21-22 mpg. On our E8 team, Davante only averaged 21 mpg, because we also had Chris back there. I don't think Theo would have gotten more than 1-2 more mpg even if he had a drastically reduced fouls per 40.
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It might be less about average minutes than specific game circumstances. Theo played just 13 minutes against Seton Hall in the BE tourney. That certainly hurt the team's chances to win. (Although I believe technically he was ejected rather than fouling out.) He also played just 13 minutes with 4 fouls in the loss at Nova.
Could MU have won 1 or 2 more games if Theo was available and on the court for a key defensive stand? Perhaps.
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Theo was a huge factor in Marquette's improved defense this season (from 182nd to 41st in adjusted defensive efficiency per KenPom).
He was - although i’d Say Sacar defensively for Rowsey at guard was just as big a reason.
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He was - although i’d Say Sacar defensively for Rowsey at guard was just as big a reason.
Sacar played big minutes next to Rowsey. Having Joey, and for that matter Bailey, at forward allowed Sacar to play SG instead of SF. Having adequate size at 4 out of 5 positions was a factor. Markus worked harder on defense but was by no means great. But he was still better than Rowsey and MU only had to try to cover for one tiny guard, not two.
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It might be less about average minutes than specific game circumstances. Theo played just 13 minutes against Seton Hall in the BE tourney. That certainly hurt the team's chances to win. (Although I believe technically he was ejected rather than fouling out.) He also played just 13 minutes with 4 fouls in the loss at Nova.
Could MU have won 1 or 2 more games if Theo was available and on the court for a key defensive stand? Perhaps.
Yea, I think it would be extremely harsh to put the SH situation solely on Theo, and while fouls certainly played a role in the Nova loss, the way that Samuels was hitting three's, I don't think Theo would have made much of a difference. I understand you point about looking game to game, rather than averages, but Thed only combined to score in single digits 10 times, while having 8 games with 15+ points. Improve consistency on the offensive end? Sure, but who can't you say that about?
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Not its not!!! Theo is rudimentary at best scoring the ball n if he gets fouled is even worse. Ed travels half the time he touches it n throws the ball at the badket when he doesnt.
Ed plays hirrible defense yet rebounds well
Theo plays solid defense yet has zero iq on when to foul and when not to, his blocked shot hunting also affords tge other team tons of second chance opportunitues.
Ed is what he is. Hopefully Theo can continue to improve, but our situation at the is 5 is bad
I agree with what you said, but I used the word “also” when I said getting the ball to them in scoring position is a problem. This is very much true. The deficiencies you point out are certainly bigger problems though.
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I like the energy that Ed brought off the bench. he's gonna be huge for us next year
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I seriously like the Theo/Ed combo and I thought Wojo used it well.
brand and I agree on much, but we disagree on the 5 position being the #1 problem. I don't think it's close. Heck, I think it's a defensive strength.
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I was impressed with Ed too. He needs to work on his footwork/traveling, but he is an amazing option to have off the bench.
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I'll go one step further:
One of my biggest concerns is that Ed is telling himself (or his "people" are telling him) that he could be more of an offensive factor and maybe even an NBA prospect if he plays the 4, and he decides to grad-transfer elsewhere.
We would have a lot of trouble finding somebody to fill his role next year. In the second half of this season, especially, he became very good at giving us what we needed from him.
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Lack of quickness was our biggest problem this year. We struggled the most against teams with NBA caliber guards (St. Johns, Seton Hall, Murray State, Indiana).
We will be better in that area next year with Greg Elliot, Kobe McEwen, and Dexter Akanno.
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One thing I definitely came to appreciate about Ed is his Rock of Gibraltar-like quality on defense. I remember several instances where 230-pound big guys tried to back him down in the post -- and Ed didn't seem to give an inch. Very strong rebounder too; he finished 1st on the team in offensive rebounding percentage with an impressive 15.5% and 2nd in defensive rebounding percentage to Sam.
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One thing I definitely came to appreciate about Ed is his Rock of Gibraltar-like quality on defense. I remember several instances where 230-pound big guys tried to back him down in the post -- and Ed didn't seem to give an inch. Very strong rebounder too; he finished 1st on the team in offensive rebounding percentage with an impressive 15.5% and 2nd in defensive rebounding percentage to Sam.
That guy is a true warrior. I didn't like him at first but I liked him more and more with each passing game. It is too bad that he biffed that dunk and had a couple of other shots blocked against MSU, because that is what most non-MU fans will remember about him. He made many tough plays in that game that are easily forgotten. He makes the most of what he has. (He's not a 4, though)
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That guy is a true warrior. I didn't like him at first but I liked him more and more with each passing game. It is too bad that he biffed that dunk and had a couple of other shots blocked against MSU, because that is what most non-MU fans will remember about him. He made many tough plays in that game that are easily forgotten. He makes the most of what he has. (He's not a 4, though)
He had a strong first half against Murray State. He and Markus were the only Warriors who arrived ready to play like warriors.
He was huge for us against Wisconsin -- we don't win that game without his major contributions. And he played solid almost every game the second half of the season.
If you tell me today that I can get the exact same production from our 5s next season, I will take it today, right now. If you tell me that I can get that AND a couple fewer silly fouls per game from them next season, I'll be ecstatic.
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How many games did MU lose because they were dominated in the post? How many because of being crushed by attacking guards?
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How many games did MU lose because they were dominated in the post? How many because of being crushed by attacking guards?
Excellent point. I remember us being dominated in the post twice this season - Happ and Watson. And we won both games.
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I would argue that the there is no #1 problem, but instead a number of intertwined problems.
Guard depth
Need more players who can create their own shot.
Ability to contain the dribbler without help.
More transition
Better ball movement and motion in the offense.
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Given his size and strength.....
He should get 2 or 3 baskets a game with "moves".....or isolation.....
He should also get 2 or 3 baskets from rebounds.....Always off balance and not low.....or routing people out.....
He does neither......
He should also not "fumble" the ball 5 times a game on both the offensive or defensive side......And these are not counted as "turnovers" .....because he never actually "possesses" the ball.....But in reality.....They really really are.....(and it pisses me off that he raises his hands and stares at them......every time)
Having a passing game.....I don't even want to get into that.....Hopefully he can just set "stationary" picks......
He does have 'big muscles" though......
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Related to all of the above, I'd add less dependence on one player for our offense. When so much of our offense runs through Markus -- he ranked 5th in the country in usage -- teams can focus all their attention on finding ways to disrupt him. For this team to take the next step, we need everyone else to step up.
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Sacar played big minutes next to Rowsey. Having Joey, and for that matter Bailey, at forward allowed Sacar to play SG instead of SF. Having adequate size at 4 out of 5 positions was a factor. Markus worked harder on defense but was by no means great. But he was still better than Rowsey and MU only had to try to cover for one tiny guard, not two.
Sacar did play big minutes next to Rowsey, but the difference is that Sacar guarded the opposing team’s best guard rather Rowsey guarding him this year. I think that was the biggest improvement on defense.
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I seriously like the Theo/Ed combo and I thought Wojo used it well.
brand and I agree on much, but we disagree on the 5 position being the #1 problem. I don't think it's close. Heck, I think it's a defensive strength.
It is, but we go into every game where it is likely we get outscored at the position. And the extra points given up by all the FTs - both on the fouls themselves and putting the other teams in the 1-and-1 so early in halves - hurt us in every close game.
Maybe you are right that it is not the #1 problem, but it certainly is one of the three things that were.
1) little offense at the ‘5’.
2) lack of athleticism,
3) no PG
There is a legitimate argument that can be made for each.
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It is, but we go into every game where it is likely we get outscored at the position. And the extra points given up by all the FTs - both on the fouls themselves and putting the other teams in the 1-and-1 so early in halves - hurt us in every close game.
Maybe you are right that it is not the #1 problem, but it certainly is one of the three things that were.
1) little offense at the ‘5’.
2) lack of athleticism,
3) no PG
There is a legitimate argument that can be made for each.
I'd rank the lack of PG and/or others who can drive/create for others as our No. 1 offensive problem, and our inability to contain quick guards as our No. 1 defensive problem.
Maybe McEwen and Elliott solve both (he said, thinking wishfully)!
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I think the biggest problem John has is going for those massive blocks everyone loves.
Sure it looks amazing and gets everyone fired up. But they usually result in 4 different options.
A) he blocks the ball, it goes out of bounds. Opponents miss a bad shot on the inbounds.
B) he blocks the ball, it goes out of bounds. Opponents score on inbounds.
C) he misses the block, opponents get rebound due to no one being underneath anymore.
D) he fouls
Only 1 of those options goes in Marquette favor.
D) Goaltend... points for the other team
I agree it's not Theo vs. Ed - it's Theo + Ed for the minutes we need a traditional center, but I can see up to 15 minutes per game with a 6'9" outside shooter - who also happens to box out extremely well and gets lots of boards - as our "center". Joey.
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NO.....IT'S...NOT!
POINT GUARD is the major problem. I can't wait to see if this McEwen can play or not. And how Greg does when he is back. Entirely different team overnight.
On both sides of the ball...point guard or guards, in general, are the issues. Greg and Jamal would have solved that. But Center is not the issue man. Get real.
Center is the one strength....what are you typing about ??? The rebounds, the shot blocks, and the physicality, etc are you crazy? No, no no...don't knock the Center.
IN FACT, THEY DO NOT USE THE CENTER...ENOUGH!
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D) Goaltend... points for the other team
I agree it's not Theo vs. Ed - it's Theo + Ed for the minutes we need a traditional center, but I can see up to 15 minutes per game with a 6'9" outside shooter - who also happens to box out extremely well and gets lots of boards - as our "center". Joey.
Any fan who said Theo is the problem is clueless! He might be as important as Howard is if he is not called for phantom fouls and thrown out of games unnecessarily!
He and Big Ed screen well, run the floor and when they are finally fed down low they can catch the ball most of the time and finish.
Neither one of their games will translate to the Pro game but they can be a major cog for this team going forward.
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NO.....IT'S...NOT!
POINT GUARD is the major problem. I can't wait to see if this McEwen can play or not. And how Greg does when he is back. Entirely different team overnight.
On both sides of the ball...point guard or guards, in general, are the issues. Greg and Jamal would have solved that. But Center is not the issue man. Get real.
Center is the one strength....what are you typing about ??? The rebounds, the shot blocks, and the physicality, etc are you crazy? No, no no...don't knock the Center.
IN FACT, THEY DO NOT USE THE CENTER...ENOUGH!
He can play, and yes our issue was more with guards than anything.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Gv6XWudHrEk
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NO.....IT'S...NOT!
POINT GUARD is the major problem. I can't wait to see if this McEwen can play or not. And how Greg does when he is back. Entirely different team overnight.
On both sides of the ball...point guard or guards, in general, are the issues. Greg and Jamal would have solved that. But Center is not the issue man. Get real.
Center is the one strength....what are you typing about ??? The rebounds, the shot blocks, and the physicality, etc are you crazy? No, no no...don't knock the Center.
IN FACT, THEY DO NOT USE THE CENTER...ENOUGH!
Point guard is a problem but I have no idea what you think Jamal could have done to “solve” that. He wasn’t very good this year.
I don’t think center was a problem though. We can get interior scoring from others. John is a rim guarding center which is exactly what you need. We don’t need him to score much. Morrow has more ability but he is undersized.
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He can play, and yes our issue was more with guards than anything.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Gv6XWudHrEk
Well, it is a guard's game....
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Big man's game, aina?
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Well, it is a guard's game....
That is what I hear
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I think the biggest problem John has is going for those massive blocks everyone loves.
Sure it looks amazing and gets everyone fired up. But they usually result in 4 different options.
A) he blocks the ball, it goes out of bounds. Opponents miss a bad shot on the inbounds.
B) he blocks the ball, it goes out of bounds. Opponents score on inbounds.
C) he misses the block, opponents get rebound due to no one being underneath anymore.
D) he fouls
Only 1 of those options goes in Marquette favor.
Well said. And most often, it results in a foul. John spent way too much time on the bench down the stretch. He needs to reign in on foul trouble.
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Agree with those that argue that the center spot is not the #1 problem. Hard to agree with those that feel that it is a strength tho, its much improved but still not strong or on par relative to the teams still alive
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I think the biggest problem John has is going for those massive blocks everyone loves.
Sure it looks amazing and gets everyone fired up. But they usually result in 4 different options.
A) he blocks the ball, it goes out of bounds. Opponents miss a bad shot on the inbounds.
B) he blocks the ball, it goes out of bounds. Opponents score on inbounds.
C) he misses the block, opponents get rebound due to no one being underneath anymore.
D) he fouls
Only 1 of those options goes in Marquette favor.
You left off perhaps the most common (or at least one of the most common) situation:
Theo blocks the ball off the backboard, Marquette rebounds and our offense is initiated.
I wouldn't be surprised if this happened an average of once per game -- there were some games it didn't happen, but some it happened multiple times. Morrow did this several times, too.
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And a few more possible outcomes:
• John forces the offensive player to take (and likely miss) a low-percentage shot
• The offensive player stops and gets trapped near the baseline, open to a steal or jump ball
• John gets called for defensive goaltending
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How about the opposing teams coach tells his players to not even bother driving, but they do it anyways and Theo gets a game winning block (to a teammate no less). Theo's discipline needs to improve, but he's the best shot blocker we've had since joining the BEast. That's not a bad thing.
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Does anyone here think that Theo John can be more, progress, and learn?
He's going into his Junior year and he is a physical specimen.
But, he still seems to me a guy who is playing at basketball rather than a basketball player.
He has trouble catching and holding on to the ball. If he holds on to the ball he doesn't show an ability to get a shot off. He doesn't seem to have developed any inside moves other than dunks. Getting good position in the paint isn't something he's learned so far either.
So, you've got a raw aggressive athletic guy who really needs to polish his game.
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Falk dude has grater up side, hey?
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Does anyone here think that Theo John can be more, progress, and learn?
He's going into his Junior year and he is a physical specimen.
But, he still seems to me a guy who is playing at basketball rather than a basketball player.
He has trouble catching and holding on to the ball. If he holds on to the ball he doesn't show an ability to get a shot off. He doesn't seem to have developed any inside moves other than dunks. Getting good position in the paint isn't something he's learned so far either.
So, you've got a raw aggressive athletic guy who really needs to polish his game.
Based on what I saw at the open practices this season, Theo and Ed are working on post moves every day. Neither are likely to become All-Big East offensive players. But I think both can improve. Theo has the greatest potential if he continues to put the work in; he's younger and longer. At 6-7, Ed is an undersized 5 and can get his shot blocked more easily by opposing defenders.
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Does anyone here think that Theo John can be more, progress, and learn?
He's going into his Junior year and he is a physical specimen.
But, he still seems to me a guy who is playing at basketball rather than a basketball player.
He has trouble catching and holding on to the ball. If he holds on to the ball he doesn't show an ability to get a shot off. He doesn't seem to have developed any inside moves other than dunks. Getting good position in the paint isn't something he's learned so far either.
So, you've got a raw aggressive athletic guy who really needs to polish his game.
Honestly, unless a big is a one and done type, this what you're going to get. Either a guy who has some skills, but body needs work or a guy with the body, but needs skill development.
No question, Theo needs more polish. Hands need to improve. His free throw shooting has to get better. He flashed at the beginning of conference play, but struggled the back-half of the season.
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Theo has improved over last year and he can continue to get better. He needs to learn to play solid positional defense and only go for blocks from the help side or when he has an angle that works to his advantage. If he does that he can reduce his fouls, grab more rebounds and have a higher rate of success in his block attempts. He is way too aggressive right now but that is what bumped up his block numbers.
Offensively we will never run offense through Theo or Ed. Their benefit is spacing, rebounding on both ends, setting screens, and scoring on dump offs and tip ins and maybe getting it on the low block with an aim to kick out to a shooter. Post offense is a pretty dated proposition these days and while these guys have value they just aren't very skilled at scoring at the rim or converting free throws. We really haven't had an offensive force down low since Gardner.
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Here's where I expect the most improvement from Theo:
Fouls committed
He actually showed some improvement here this season, committing 7.4 fouls per 40 minutes versus 8.5 as a freshman (per KenPom). Clearly more work to be done here.
Offensive efficiency
A lot of this relates to turnovers. Last season his TORate was 27.7%; this season it was down to 20.9%. Still too high, but trending in the right direction. Theo also upped his field goal percentage from 57.3% to 60.2%. As a result, his offensive rating was up from 91.7 as a freshman to 105.9 this season (114.4 in Big East play).
Defensive rebounding
Theo's been okay, but not great here. Defensive rebound percentage is pretty much flat from freshman year (15.9%) to this season (16.2%). That's behind Sam, Ed and even Jamal. I think he can do better.
Offensive rebounding
Theo is already strong here, improving his offensive rebound percentage from 8.2% to 11.1%. I'd be pretty happy with him simply maintaining this level of performance. (Ed put up an impressive 15.5% this season, which is top 10 level.)
Where I don't expect much improvement:
Free throw shooting
Shot 50% as a freshman, 50.6% as a sophomore. I'm sure he'll continue to work on it, but I don't think it's in the cards.
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Here's where I expect the most improvement from Theo:
Fouls committed
He actually showed some improvement here this season, committing 7.4 fouls per 40 minutes versus 8.5 as a freshman (per KenPom). Clearly more work to be done here.
Offensive efficiency
A lot of this relates to turnovers. Last season his TORate was 27.7%; this season it was down to 20.9%. Still too high, but trending in the right direction. Theo also upped his field goal percentage from 57.3% to 60.2%. As a result, his offensive rating was up from 91.7 as a freshman to 105.9 this season (114.4 in Big East play).
Defensive rebounding
Theo's been okay, but not great here. Defensive rebound percentage is pretty much flat from freshman year (15.9%) to this season (16.2%). That's behind Sam, Ed and even Jamal. I think he can do better.
Offensive rebounding
Theo is already strong here, improving his offensive rebound percentage from 8.2% to 11.1%. I'd be pretty happy with him simply maintaining this level of performance. (Ed put up an impressive 15.5% this season, which is top 10 level.)
Where I don't expect much improvement:
Free throw shooting
Shot 50% as a freshman, 50.6% as a sophomore. I'm sure he'll continue to work on it, but I don't think it's in the cards.
Good post. It is nice to see the year to year progression in every category.
I'm a big Theo John fan. He just needs to foul less.
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I give the coaches a lot of credit for Theo's development. He came in physically ready for Big East play, but played a limited role as a freshman. The difference in just one year has been dramatic.
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Any fan who said Theo is the problem is clueless! He might be as important as Howard is if he is not called for phantom fouls and thrown out of games unnecessarily!
He and Big Ed screen well, run the floor and when they are finally fed down low they can catch the ball most of the time and finish.
Neither one of their games will translate to the Pro game but they can be a major cog for this team going forward.
A guy who averages 5.5 points and <5 rebounds a game is not as important as Howard. But that is funny.
More importantly, the team cannot even count on him being on the floor when they need him.
I would ask you what basketball skill he brings other than shot blocking - which is the very skill that makes him unavailable for much of the game and leads to putting the other team in the bonus. Remember, FT% doesn’t matter. Free throw attempts do.
He made huge strides from year 1 to year 2, but there is much work to be done.
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While I do not hold Theo in the same regard as many do, center is far from the biggest problem. I get that we might not agree on what is elite, is Wojo the guy or how much progress has been made over five years, but center as #1 problem threw me for a loop.
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A guy who averages 5.5 points and <5 rebounds a game is not as important as Howard. But that is funny.
More importantly, the team cannot even count on him being on the floor when they need him.
I would ask you what basketball skill he brings other than shot blocking - which is the very skill that makes him unavailable for much of the game and leads to putting the other team in the bonus. Remember, FT% doesn’t matter. Free throw attempts do.
He made huge strides from year 1 to year 2, but there is much work to be done.
Both of our big's do a lot of things that don't show up in the box score. Sacar probably gets about 4 additional ppg due to good seals provided by ThEd. I do not believe that shot alterations are an official stat, and ThEd has a lot of those. Also, just looking at total rebounds can be misleading, in 2012 Chris was 4th on the team in rebounding, mostly due to the fact that whenever a shot went up, he stuck his backside into the nearest opponent he could find, and that was usually the other teams biggest player. His box-outs allowed our 6'-5" guard to lead the team in boards per game.
Is Theo as important as Markus? No. Is there work to be done as you say? Yes, but he is not the biggest problem and is the anchor on a much improved defensive team.
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Big men develop slower, that has been the case for as long as I can remember. Theo made a nice jump from Frosh to Soph.
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Theo sets the vast majority of the picks that free up Markus and others for open shots -- more than 15 screens in many games. Doesn't get a lot of attention, but it's essential to running our offense.
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Any fan who said Theo is the problem is clueless! He might be as important as Howard is if he is not called for phantom fouls and thrown out of games unnecessarily!
He and Big Ed screen well, run the floor and when they are finally fed down low they can catch the ball most of the time and finish.
Neither one of their games will translate to the Pro game but they can be a major cog for this team going forward.
While I agree with Howard not being the most important piece. It's definetly not John.
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While I do not hold Theo in the same regard as many do, center is far from the biggest problem. I get that we might not agree on what is elite, is Wojo the guy or how much progress has been made over five years, but center as #1 problem threw me for a loop.
My original post was misleading. I should have placed a ‘?’ After the statement that center was the #1 problem. I was looking to open a discussion rather than make a declarative statement.
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Here's where I expect the most improvement from Theo:
Fouls committed
He actually showed some improvement here this season, committing 7.4 fouls per 40 minutes versus 8.5 as a freshman (per KenPom). Clearly more work to be done here.
Offensive efficiency
A lot of this relates to turnovers. Last season his TORate was 27.7%; this season it was down to 20.9%. Still too high, but trending in the right direction. Theo also upped his field goal percentage from 57.3% to 60.2%. As a result, his offensive rating was up from 91.7 as a freshman to 105.9 this season (114.4 in Big East play).
Defensive rebounding
Theo's been okay, but not great here. Defensive rebound percentage is pretty much flat from freshman year (15.9%) to this season (16.2%). That's behind Sam, Ed and even Jamal. I think he can do better.
Offensive rebounding
Theo is already strong here, improving his offensive rebound percentage from 8.2% to 11.1%. I'd be pretty happy with him simply maintaining this level of performance. (Ed put up an impressive 15.5% this season, which is top 10 level.)
Where I don't expect much improvement:
Free throw shooting
Shot 50% as a freshman, 50.6% as a sophomore. I'm sure he'll continue to work on it, but I don't think it's in the cards.
Excellent list, Marcus.
I would be thrilled thrilled thrilled if Theo improves as much from Year 2 to Year 3 as he did from Year 1 to Year 2.
I certainly expect him to improve again, thanks to practice and experience.
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MU 82
With you being a 40 year + MU ball fan I hold your opinion in fairly high regard, but this season I think you either have doubled down on wanting to create conversation or have become soft:). You have been consistent all season in support of Wojo, status of program, player development, strength of schedule, power of the BE and I am sure several more and I am fine with all of that.
While I have never met you, I do know folks who have met you, I do think I know you a little bit from reading 100's, if not more, of your posts over the years. Serious question, are you just trying to create conversation and piss off the anti Wojo guys or do you really believe everything you have preached this season?
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MU 82
With you being a 40 year + MU ball fan I hold your opinion in fairly high regard, but this season I think you either have doubled down on wanting to create conversation or have become soft:). You have been consistent all season in support of Wojo, status of program, player development, strength of schedule, power of the BE and I am sure several more and I am fine with all of that.
While I have never met you, I do know folks who have met you, I do think I know you a little bit from reading 100's, if not more, of your posts over the years. Serious question, are you just trying to create conversation and piss off the anti Wojo guys or do you really believe everything you have preached this season?
Not sure what I said about Theo that elicited that from you, Goose, but OK ...
Unlike chicos, I don't argue just to argue. And unlike Smuggles, I don't post just to post (unless I'm throwing out a silly/snide/sarcastic one-liner).
Of course I believe what I have said about Wojo. Folks do tend to gloss over the many times I have criticized Wojo's strategy and even his comportment. I know he is not a great coach and I know his results are not as good as any of us want them to be. He really pissed me off the way he treated that student reporter last year. Etc. He's not close to perfect by any means.
But yes, I honestly believe that he has improved as a coach and that our program is heading in the right direction. And I honestly believe that firing him would hurt our program significantly (which is moot, because he's not going to get fired, no matter how much some of the knee-jerk Scoopers desperately want it to happen). And I honestly believe that other coaches who were being considered in 2014 have done absolutely nothing at their current posts to indicate that they would have done better at Marquette than Wojo has.
I have plenty high expectations for our program. They might not be as high as those of the 70s crowd who think we will be failures if we don't return to our Al-era success. However, I do think that we can and should get back at least to our Buzz-era success and that Wojo can get us there.
I am not an insider like many on this board claim to be, so I just know what I've read here -- that Wojo was hired to build a program differently than Buzz did -- with few if any jucos, for example -- and I am a realist who knows that will take time.
I want to win as much as anybody else here, and I get just as upset while watching our bad games as anybody does -- as my poor dog, who goes scrambling into another room when I get especially loud and testy, would attest.
Big picture, though, I am a patient, realistic, optimistic guy. It's just how I am wired. I also try very hard not to get bent out of shape about things that are out of my control.
I do see Wojo's weaknesses, and I don't know of any of Wojo's defenders here who say he has no weaknesses. But unlike some of his critics, I also see his strengths, and I think he has several.
If we take a step backward in 2019-20, I will not be all seashells and balloons about Wojo, I assure you that. But if we continue trending forward (as we clearly have been ever since his first year), and if I continue getting enjoyment from watching the team play (as I mostly have these last several years), I will continue to support Wojo and our players.
Did that answer your question, Goose?
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With the shooters MU has, how nice would it be to have a big down low, that when the shots aren't falling ,you can dump it in and it's almost a guaranteed 2 points?? Theo is definitely not that. Ed has a lot more offensive game then Theo..but man oh man would a Davante Gardner be nice on this team. I know they probably don't have a spot or are even looking at grad transfers, but 7'1" Derick Smits(son of Rick) is transferring from Valpo...averaged 12 and 5. He would be a perfect fit.
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Honestly, unless a big is a one and done type, this what you're going to get. Either a guy who has some skills, but body needs work or a guy with the body, but needs skill development.
No question, Theo needs more polish. Hands need to improve. His free throw shooting has to get better. He flashed at the beginning of conference play, but struggled the back-half of the season.
I agree problem with MU always seens to be when we do finally get a big he gas to play n fail when ges young. Would be nice to get a big every year that way we have 1-2 in training and 1-2 upperclassmen playing
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Watching all the games this past week, I can’t think of another team in the tourney that struggles to have their guards handle the ball, especially bringing it into the paint and distributing. Virtually every team has multiple guards that can seemingly weave their way through traffic at will. The lack of creative ball handling and distribution means our offense relies solely on chucking it from deep.
With regards to Theo, he appears to have some nice moves but often doesn’t get touches after the first possession of the half.
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Not sure what I said about Theo that elicited that from you, Goose, but OK ...
Unlike chicos, I don't argue just to argue. And unlike Smuggles, I don't post just to post (unless I'm throwing out a silly/snide/sarcastic one-liner).
Of course I believe what I have said about Wojo. Folks do tend to gloss over the many times I have criticized Wojo's strategy and even his comportment. I know he is not a great coach and I know his results are not as good as any of us want them to be. He really pissed me off the way he treated that student reporter last year. Etc. He's not close to perfect by any means.
But yes, I honestly believe that he has improved as a coach and that our program is heading in the right direction. And I honestly believe that firing him would hurt our program significantly (which is moot, because he's not going to get fired, no matter how much some of the knee-jerk Scoopers desperately want it to happen). And I honestly believe that other coaches who were being considered in 2014 have done absolutely nothing at their current posts to indicate that they would have done better at Marquette than Wojo has.
I have plenty high expectations for our program. They might not be as high as those of the 70s crowd who think we will be failures if we don't return to our Al-era success. However, I do think that we can and should get back at least to our Buzz-era success and that Wojo can get us there.
I am not an insider like many on this board claim to be, so I just know what I've read here -- that Wojo was hired to build a program differently than Buzz did -- with few if any jucos, for example -- and I am a realist who knows that will take time.
I want to win as much as anybody else here, and I get just as upset while watching our bad games as anybody does -- as my poor dog, who goes scrambling into another room when I get especially loud and testy, would attest.
Big picture, though, I am a patient, realistic, optimistic guy. It's just how I am wired. I also try very hard not to get bent out of shape about things that are out of my control.
I do see Wojo's weaknesses, and I don't know of any of Wojo's defenders here who say he has no weaknesses. But unlike some of his critics, I also see his strengths, and I think he has several.
If we take a step backward in 2019-20, I will not be all seashells and balloons about Wojo, I assure you that. But if we continue trending forward (as we clearly have been ever since his first year), and if I continue getting enjoyment from watching the team play (as I mostly have these last several years), I will continue to support Wojo and our players.
Did that answer your question, Goose?
I argue only when necessary. This is why I hardly say a word on the ticket exchange board because stupid things aren’t said there.
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Offensive rebounding.....I do not know where you get the "we are OK".......
We are ranked somewhere in the 200's in offensive rebounding......
With the size we have......We should be a lot higher than that.....
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Offensive rebounding.....I do not know where you get the "we are OK".......
We are ranked somewhere in the 200's in offensive rebounding......
With the size we have......We should be a lot higher than that.....
We are ranked 131st in offensive rebounding% and 81st in defensive rebounding% (said another way preventing opponents offensive rebounds)
We were not great but I'd argue that we were actually better than ok.
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Not sure what I said about Theo that elicited that from you, Goose, but OK ...
Unlike chicos, I don't argue just to argue. And unlike Smuggles, I don't post just to post (unless I'm throwing out a silly/snide/sarcastic one-liner).
Of course I believe what I have said about Wojo. Folks do tend to gloss over the many times I have criticized Wojo's strategy and even his comportment. I know he is not a great coach and I know his results are not as good as any of us want them to be. He really pissed me off the way he treated that student reporter last year. Etc. He's not close to perfect by any means.
But yes, I honestly believe that he has improved as a coach and that our program is heading in the right direction. And I honestly believe that firing him would hurt our program significantly (which is moot, because he's not going to get fired, no matter how much some of the knee-jerk Scoopers desperately want it to happen). And I honestly believe that other coaches who were being considered in 2014 have done absolutely nothing at their current posts to indicate that they would have done better at Marquette than Wojo has.
I have plenty high expectations for our program. They might not be as high as those of the 70s crowd who think we will be failures if we don't return to our Al-era success. However, I do think that we can and should get back at least to our Buzz-era success and that Wojo can get us there.
I am not an insider like many on this board claim to be, so I just know what I've read here -- that Wojo was hired to build a program differently than Buzz did -- with few if any jucos, for example -- and I am a realist who knows that will take time.
I want to win as much as anybody else here, and I get just as upset while watching our bad games as anybody does -- as my poor dog, who goes scrambling into another room when I get especially loud and testy, would attest.
Big picture, though, I am a patient, realistic, optimistic guy. It's just how I am wired. I also try very hard not to get bent out of shape about things that are out of my control.
I do see Wojo's weaknesses, and I don't know of any of Wojo's defenders here who say he has no weaknesses. But unlike some of his critics, I also see his strengths, and I think he has several.
If we take a step backward in 2019-20, I will not be all seashells and balloons about Wojo, I assure you that. But if we continue trending forward (as we clearly have been ever since his first year), and if I continue getting enjoyment from watching the team play (as I mostly have these last several years), I will continue to support Wojo and our players.
Did that answer your question, Goose?
Come on man. You troll quite a bit. A lot of your posts are made with the intent to provoke. That’s fine but own it.
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My biggest annoyance with Theo is the fouls when reaching over/jumping over a player in attempt to get a rebound he clearly has no chance at
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Come on man. You troll quite a bit. A lot of your posts are made with the intent to provoke. That’s fine but own it.
+1000...sorry MU82, but this is true...look at how many of your posts take "veiled" shots at me in particular...at least own up to it.
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Come on man. You troll quite a bit. A lot of your posts are made with the intent to provoke. That’s fine but own it.
I admitted that I sometimes "throw out a silly/snide/sarcastic one-liner." I admit they might be 2-liners or 3-liners when I'm feeling especially goofy.
But I don't think I've left much doubt about my basic belief that Wojo has done a good job and that I think he will get us where we want/need to go.
Everything I said in the long post here is how I honestly feel.
+1000...sorry MU82, but this is true...look at how many of your posts take "veiled" shots at me in particular...at least own up to it.
I resent this, guru. Most of my shots at you aren't veiled at all! 8-)
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someone said it earlier and i apologize for not giving them direct kudos, but wherever the post was...if theo improves from soph. to junior year as much as he did from freshman to soph., i'm real good with that.
i think the refs are a little "hair pin trigger" with the whistle on theo. he did start out the year flexing a little over guys just to send notice. well the refs noticed and so did the coaches. he did reel it in but the refs still have that old vision of him stuck in their heads. he gets more phantom fouls (including an unjust ejection) because refs are intimidated by his physique. they need to make each call(or non-call) on their own merit irrespective of what he has done in his past unless it was something flagrant.
one stat this is difficult to measure, unlike rebounds and points is how many shots were changed and/or how many drives were prevented from even happening.
theo(and ed) are MU's tough guys. maurice lucas tough? no f' ing way, but that's not fair. they are 2019 tough guys. ed has got to go STRONG to the hole and put the defender's arm through the hoop with his throw-downs. theo's got to give the refs flowers before the game, then go out and kick some a$$
i think we will be ok at the 5. would(will) be good to see ike press them for p.t.
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Looking ahead, we'll need to bring in another big man or two.
I think we'll be okay for 2019-20. But we may not have as much depth -- depending on whether Ike is healthy and ready to contribute, or if a grad transfer pops up. We've seen what happens when Theo and Ed both get into foul trouble. (We can't afford either of those guys to get injured, either.) Then we'll likely need to find someone who can contribute right away in the 2020 class once Ed moves on.
You almost can't have enough big men or point guards (good ball handlers in general) on the roster.
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Wojo has been targeting 2020 bigs. Dainja, Garcia. I haven't given up on Ike. Supposedly, before the Murray State game, he was participating in pre-game drills, closing out on shooters.