Update on prof McAdams

[Ellenson Guerrero]

As I've stated before, what if the student was straight up lying and McAdams posted his blog? Would that change anything for you?

So yes, I think McAdams has a responsibility to fact check his published critique. Otherwise, he's basically just posting and commenting on rumors he's heard around campus.

Cannot act like that, and then call it "academic discourse".

No, if the student was lying, I would feel no differently.  McAdams would look like an ass and face his punishment that way.

[reinko]

Things like this don't necessarily have an immediate impact-ever hear of boiling the frog?  It takes a long time to stop a rolling train.  By the time one thinks the world is all good, the frog is cooked.  Then what?  But but but, our intentions weren't to....quick-cpr, turn down the heat, somebody do something, these are things that wise people think about before they act

Mccadams is merely providing a minority voice to campus's all over who are sick and tired of getting the beat down from the liberal majority.  We're his methods questionable?  Probably. Should he be fired over this?  I don't believe so.  Is Marquette doing this for"political" reasons?  Absolutely!  They are trying to hide that behind a veil of a bunch of legalese horse-hockey handbooks, rules, ethics, morals, blah blah blah-lets cut the crap and say it for what it is-they've wanted to get rid of this guy for some time-they believe they've found their crack in the door.  As someone said earlier, what if this were over taxes or the Vietnam war, or....this is about gay marriage. One would think Marquette being the jesuit(I think) university it ascribes to be, would welcome an exchange of opinion in a controlled environment.  Oh no? It's about a student? Yeah, nice-here's our chance-go get him.  I think mu is getting some bad bad advice from attorneys who think like them.  Well the same of course can be said about Johnny except he has the constitution behind him

You are exactly right.  Look @ Benghazi. 

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

So only certain kinds of speech qualify as "scholarly" and thus are protected?

Edited to add: I guess only newspaper writers are "journalists" too. Blogs are sorta a thing now, ya know?

Truthfully, yes.

You can't just say whatever you want, whenever you want and call it "scholarly" or "academic discourse".

You want to take on somebody's published works? Go for it. You want to sit in and audit another profs class? I'll even say that's probably okay.

But, you can't just take stuff you hear around campus and publish it without any consequences.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

So lectures are not covered by academic freedom because they are not fact-checked, peer reviewed, and edited before being disseminated? You are just making stuff up to fit your preferred notions of justice in this case.

Again, please explain what words McAdams used that constituted bullying.  Just calling something bullying or harassment doesn't make it so.

A lecture that McAdams heard FIRST HAND, would be fine (in my mind). Go for it.

Hell, I'd even be okay with it if McAdams took this through the proper channels, didn't receive a satisfactory response, and decided to publish all of his steps and how he attempted to get resolution or clarification. It would make MU look bad, but I'd argue that the dude did his due diligence and MU dropped the ball.

But, he didn't do that. He ran with something he heard second hand.

That's not academic discourse.

[Eldon]

It's not about academic freedom.

If this were a published paper, and McAdams deconstructed it, then so be it. Academic freedom.

If he critiqued a fellow professor's TedTalk, or public speaking engagement, then so be it. Academic freedom.

What McAdams DID do: Publicly critique a TA based upon second hand knowledge, and a private conversation that was recorded without permission. He didn't bother to fact check, he didn't bother to get a response from the TA or the head of the department. He didn't go through the proper channels or consider the consequences.

He sprinted to his keyboard and hit "publish", because this makes for a good talking point for his blog.

He took advantage of the situation and only looked out for himself. He wasn't trying to be some sort of conservative champion. If he was, he would have taken this up with the proper channels. He was trying to generate blog hits, and he got them.

I have no sympathy for such an act. It's not done in the spirit of academic discourse (which I would support).

What if the professor giving the TedTalk was taking a statistics class in the evening, technically making him a student.  Would that change anything for you?

I do not believe that a grad instructor's classroom activities as an instructor are covered by FERPA.  I don't know that for sure, but smart money is that it's not.  Corroborating evidence of this comes from the fact that ratemyprofessor used to have professors' grade breakdown by course, ie, even a professor/grad instructor's grade distribution are not protected by law.  (For candor's sake, they no longer do this so I'm not sure if the law has recently changed).

[GGGG]

Mccadams is merely providing a minority voice to campus's all over who are sick and tired of getting the beat down from the liberal majority.  We're his methods questionable?  Probably. Should he be fired over this?  I don't believe so.  Is Marquette doing this for"political" reasons?  Absolutely!

I have worked at five institutions of higher education.  Small, conservative, private colleges.  Large, liberal, public universities.  I have been involved in dozens of personnel decisions, directly and indirectly.

One thing that has never, ever, EVER been discussed in all of those decisions, is the political motivations or leanings of the employee.  Personnel decisions like these SUCK!!  Nobody like them.  They are messy.  I am 99.9999% certain no one said or implied "HA!!!  Now we can get rid of that conservative!!!"

Here is what I do believe.  That if McAdams had to do it over, he would have done it very differently...or not at all.  And the Marquette administration also wishes he had the ability to do it over.  Nobody wanted this.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

What if the professor giving the TedTalk was taking a statistics class in the evening, technically making him a student.  Would that change anything for you?

I do not believe that a grad instructor's classroom activities as an instructor are covered by FERPA.  I don't know that for sure, but smart money is that it's not.  Corroborating evidence of this comes from the fact that ratemyprofessor used to have professors' grade breakdown by course, ie, even a professor/grad instructor's grade distribution are not protected by law.  (For candor's sake, they no longer do this so I'm not sure if the law has recently changed).

Honestly, I don't know where I fall on the whole TA vs Prof debate. To me, it doesn't even matter that much.

I want to cut the TA some slack because they are essentially an intern/apprentice... BUT, MU certainly doesn't charge me less for those classes... so maybe the TAs need to be held accountable for what happens in the classroom? I dunno. It's a messy topic.

My focus is the fact that this was essentially second hand account of a situation, and McAdams took it to his blog. I don't think I'm comfortable protecting that under "academic freedom" or "academic discourse".

I mean, what's next? Spys in every classroom that report back to McAdams so he can critique every liberal professor? Is that what we want? We're going to protect that?

[Ellenson Guerrero]

I have worked at five institutions of higher education.  Small, conservative, private colleges.  Large, liberal, public universities.  I have been involved in dozens of personnel decisions, directly and indirectly.

One thing that has never, ever, EVER been discussed in all of those decisions, is the political motivations or leanings of the employee.  Personnel decisions like these SUCK!!  Nobody like them.  They are messy.  I am 99.9999% certain no one said or implied "HA!!!  Now we can get rid of that conservative!!!"

Here is what I do believe.  That if McAdams had to do it over, he would have done it very differently...or not at all.  And the Marquette administration also wishes he had the ability to do it over.  Nobody wanted this.

If no one wanted this at Marquette, why are they going to the extreme step of revoking his tenure and ejecting him from the university?  They could have issued a statement and went on their way. 

The university is trying to make a point and succeeded.

[GGGG]

If no one wanted this at Marquette, why are they going to the extreme step of revoking his tenure and ejecting him from the university?  They could have issued a statement and went on their way.

Because it was a violation of personnel rules by a (likely) repeat offender.

[Galway Eagle]

The classic response of those who have nothing to offer.

What are you even trying to say? I already thought that of him not like I was just calling him a name out of nowhere I was just saying that I don't care about him calling me naive because I think he's a pompous a$$

[rocket surgeon]

If no one wanted this at Marquette, why are they going to the extreme step of revoking his tenure and ejecting him from the university?  They could have issued a statement and went on their way. 

The university is trying to make a point and succeeded.

Yes yes yes-while I appreciate and respect sultan's experiences, mu didn't have to go "scorched earth" here.  That says volumes.  I know they stated their reasons, but, I still believe there are some wink-wink, nod-nods going on here.  No, not grassy knoll stuff, but we all know the behind the scenes, rest of the story stuff is very common.  It always seems to come out in the memoirs or whatever.  There is too much at stake here for complete honesty and transparency.  Bottom line is, Marquette didn't have to fire him.  They could have taken the high road, stated all of their objections to mccadams behavior, right or wrong, and issued a strong reprimand and this all would have gone away sooner and Marquette would have looked more "reasonable" and possibly present mccadams as an extremist yet I do believe we need voices like his to provide balance

[jficke13]

To the extent that it matters, but the story is getting spread. A very highly respected legal blog/commentator who focuses on free speech watchdog and overreach of criminal justice and civil court system that tweets under the handle @popehat just linked to FIRE's story.

[warriorchick]

I have worked at five institutions of higher education.  Small, conservative, private colleges.  Large, liberal, public universities.  I have been involved in dozens of personnel decisions, directly and indirectly.

One thing that has never, ever, EVER been discussed in all of those decisions, is the political motivations or leanings of the employee.  Personnel decisions like these SUCK!!  Nobody like them.  They are messy.  I am 99.9999% certain no one said or implied "HA!!!  Now we can get rid of that conservative!!!"

Here is what I do believe.  That if McAdams had to do it over, he would have done it very differently...or not at all.  And the Marquette administration also wishes he had the ability to do it over.  Nobody wanted this.

+1

Does anyone else know of an instance when Marquette fired a tenured professor?  I don't, but there is a 25-year gap where I didn't pay much attention to the school except for basketball, so I'd like to know.  

I still think it is extremely rare. We hear all the time about Marquette profs doing stuff that would get them canned in the corporate world. I imagine the PTB have a long list of professors that, for one reason or another, they would get rid of if they could.  Why would they single McAdams out unless it was an egregious case?

My theory:  There is way more to the story than what Marquette can discuss publicly. If that is the case, I doubt McAdams would sue, because all of that information would come out.  As it stands now, he can continue to be the victim, gain sympathy, and get a cushy gig or two as a conservative commentator.

[reinko]

To the extent that it matters, but the story is getting spread. A very highly respected legal blog/commentator who focuses on free speech watchdog and overreach of criminal justice and civil court system that tweets under the handle @popehat just linked to FIRE's story.

Not @popehat.  Anyone but @popehat.  It already got favorited twice, and retweeted 20 times.

Oh, the humanity.

[jficke13]

Not @popehat.  Anyone but @popehat.  It already got favorited twice, and retweeted 20 times.

Oh, the humanity.

So I guess you would suggest that the extent to which it matters is "not very." Noted.

[reinko]

So I guess you would suggest that the extent to which it matters is "not very." Noted.

Bingo bango.

[jficke13]

Bingo bango.

Wow he really ended up looking pretty Crypt Keeper-esque there at the end, didn't he?

[MUfan12]

Reading this thread, and the stuff MU is saying, made me go back and read the original post. For all the "harassment, bullying, attacking" being thrown out, I don't think this reads that way at all. Critical, yes. But not to a fireable level.

http://mu-warrior.blogspot.com/2014/11/marquette-philosophy-instructor-gay.html

[Ellenson Guerrero]

Not @popehat.  Anyone but @popehat.  It already got favorited twice, and retweeted 20 times.

Oh, the humanity.

Eugene Volokh is about as big of a name as you'll find in the world of legal scholarship and the Washington Post is about as big of a news outlet as you'll find.  You obviously can think the issue doesn't matter, but it is getting noticed.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/02/05/marquette-trying-to-fire-tenured-professor-who-blogged-about-grad-student-instructors-suppression-of-anti-gay-marriage-views/

[GGGG]

Eugene Volokh is about as big of a name as you'll find in the world of legal scholarship and the Washington Post is about as big of a news outlet as you'll find.  You obviously can think the issue doesn't matter, but it is getting noticed.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/02/05/marquette-trying-to-fire-tenured-professor-who-blogged-about-grad-student-instructors-suppression-of-anti-gay-marriage-views/

1.  Is Marquette receiving negative attention due to this issue?  Yes.

2.  Is the negative attention likely to be serious or long lasting?  No.

That is the nature of today's media.  It is widespread, but disappears quickly.  Volokh will have a new blog entry next week.

[keefe]

I want to cut the TA some slack because they are essentially an intern/apprentice... BUT, MU certainly doesn't charge me less for those classes... so maybe the TAs need to be held accountable for what happens in the classroom? I dunno. It's a messy topic. 

I am at a loss as to why the instructor's status as a grad student has any bearing. The crux is what transpired between the student and his instructor. The instructor's status as grad student is immaterial in that context.

People can't have it both ways. Thank god the student recorded the conversation with his instructor for that is at the heart of this matter.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I am at a loss as to why the instructor's status as a grad student has any bearing. The crux is what transpired between the student and his instructor. The instructor's status as grad student is immaterial in that context.

People can't have it both ways. Thank god the student recorded the conversation with his instructor for that is at the heart of this matter.

C'mon, that's NOT a good path to go down. Lots of options for the student. Secret recording and running to McAdams was not a good one.

I think of 10,000 good ways to handle this, especially in an academic setting. Unfortunately, a lot of people chose poor ways to handle it.

[keefe]

C'mon, that's NOT a good path to go down. Lots of options for the student. Secret recording and running to McAdams was not a good one.

I think of 10,000 good ways to handle this, especially in an academic setting. Unfortunately, a lot of people chose poor ways to handle it.

I think we are all in agreement that this whole matter was mishandled by every stakeholder. At the end of the day all I care about is how my alma mater handles things. At this point, based on what is publicly available, Marquette is once again looking amateurish. I have three alma maters. I think Marquette gets my money after  the other two.

[Blue Horseshoe]

Because it was a violation of personnel rules by a (likely) repeat offender.

This is false. Just because some in position of power at Marquette do not approve of McAdams actions, does not prove he violated rules (repeatedly).

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I think we are all in agreement that this whole matter was mishandled by every stakeholder. At the end of the day all I care about is how my alma mater handles things. At this point, based on what is publicly available, Marquette is once again looking amateurish. I have three alma maters. I think Marquette gets my money after  the other two.

Totally fair. Money talks. If enough people feel the same way, MU will start to feel the pinch.