Update on prof McAdams

[NavinRJohnson]

I respect you Keefe, but I disagree. This was handled as well as it could have been. It has angered some folks, but that rests squarely on McAdams for trying to turn people against his employer for the last 20 years.

Something MU hasn't really needed his help with. They have done a fine job on their own.

[HutchwasClutch]

F uck Marquette. This is shameful and embarassing

Amen Keefe, amen about this whole situation and how MU has responded. 

[NavinRJohnson]

He destroyed a students life...

Good grief.

[Lennys Tap]

Threats, verbal abuse, a life destroyed? Is Drama now the preferred major at Marquette? Has Caleo ergo sum replaced Cogito ergo sum?

[Ellenson Guerrero]

So either...

1.  Marquette changed its policy regarding academic freedom.

or

2.  This isn't about academic freedom.

My guess is that #2 is the correct answer.

How can you possible argue that this situation isn't about academic freedom?  Even Marquette isn't denying that it is involved here...

[NavinRJohnson]

Amen Keefe, amen about this whole situation and how MU has responded.  

My wife and I both graduated from MU, and have Sophomore daughter beginning to think about college. This is just one more reason neither one of us is really encouraging her to consider Marquette. Just not the same place we went. I know it's symptomatic of higher Ed in general and there probably all about the same, but it's just very disappointing.

[Blackhat]

Professors should be graded out on their effectiveness in the classroom yearly based on scores similar to all "lower level" teachers.  'Are they effective?' is never asked after tenure.  No accountability leads to sloppiness and turning the soul of their job to assistants.

[HutchwasClutch]

My wife and I both graduated from MU, and have Sophomore daughter beginning to think about college. This is just one more reason neither one of of is really encouraging her to consider Marquette. Just not the same place we went. I know it's just symptematic of higher Ed in general and there probably all about the same, but it's just very disappointing.

That's exactly it, MU's response from the top, and how they've handled/bungled it, is hardly unique given the  culture at the top that is pervasive at today's colleges around the country.  

[Bo Ryan's Massage Therapist]

A students life was destroyed? What does that even mean?

If you were well onto your final career choice as a phD student at a university you loved, and were well entrenched in the community socially and careerwise and this came to a screeching halt because of some douche bag , would you be upset?   Would you like to receive dozens of death threats and have your reputation tarnished because of a mistake you made as a student? How many times has this board talked about how stupid we all were as students from being immature and naive?  She made a mistake and didn't deserve the public flogging that she took because of somebody's political agenda.  How would you like to have to unexpectedly transfer your last year at Marquette and leave behind everything you knew because someone ruined your reputation?  Forget about the fact that you were publicly degraded despite people not hearing the entire audio tape. lets just say the student who unknowingly audiotaped Her was not acting in an appropriate manner and if the tape wasn't so conveniently edited, you might feel different. If this was my daughter I'd personally go after McAdams

[GGGG]

How can you possible argue that this situation isn't about academic freedom?  Even Marquette isn't denying that it is involved here...

Uh...no. Here is part of their statement:

"The decisions here have everything to do with our Guiding Values and expectations of conduct toward each other and nothing to do with academic freedom..."

[GGGG]

That's exactly it, MU's response from the top, and how they've handled/bungled it, is hardly unique given the  culture at the top that is pervasive at today's colleges around the country. 

LOL...OK...

Just last week we were praising Lovell and the new building they announced in association with the Bucks.  Now you and Navin are bitching about....I don't know what really...and then saying it is symptomatic of poor leadership.

Well, whatever.

[Pakuni]

How can you possible argue that this situation isn't about academic freedom?  Even Marquette isn't denying that it is involved here...

Could you fill us in the academic purpose/goal/end McAdams was pursuing when he took to his blog to lambaste a grad student? Is publicly criticizing students an integral part of the poly sci field these days?
Was he conducting research or teaching? Was he engaging on scholarly discourse?
No and no.
He was attacking a grad student over a minor infraction on her part and rehashing long-held grudges with the administration.

This isn't about academic freedom because there was absolutely nothing academic about McAdams' actions or his intents.

[Ellenson Guerrero]

Uh...no. Here is part of their statement:

"The decisions here have everything to do with our Guiding Values and expectations of conduct toward each other and nothing to do with academic freedom..."

Okay.  I was wrong.  MU is full of it.  

Just so you are aware, the rest of academia disagrees with your and Marquette's view of "academic freedom": http://academeblog.org/2015/02/04/marquette-to-fire-john-mcadams-for-his-blog/

[Ellenson Guerrero]

Could you fill us in the academic purpose/goal/end McAdams was pursuing when he took to his blog to lambaste a grad student? Is publicly criticizing students an integral part of the poly sci field these days?
Was he conducting research or teaching? Was he engaging on scholarly discourse?
No and no.
He was attacking a grad student over a minor infraction on her part and rehashing long-held grudges with the administration.

This isn't about academic freedom because there was absolutely nothing academic about McAdams' actions or his intents.

Sure can.  McAdams was publicly expressing his opinions about a Marquette instructors handling of a student's concerns about classroom discussion.  That is scholarly discourse.  It doesn't get more academic than discussing the status of freedom of expression and debate in a college classroom.

[NavinRJohnson]

LOL...OK...

Just last week we were praising Lovell and the new building they announced in association with the Bucks.  Now you and Navin are bitching about....I don't know what really...and then saying it is symptomatic of poor leadership.

Well, whatever.

Whatever is right, but I appreciate the words in my mouth.

If anyone wants to try and deny that MU has done a helluva job allientating a helluva lot of people the past several years, be my guest. You'd be a fool, but be my guest.

Times change. I get it. Don't have to like it, but a I get it. Once upon a time one could distinguish MU from the likes of UW-Madison from a cultural values or ideological standpoint. I'm just not sure that's the case anymore, and I think that's sad. Like I said, not unique to MU, but as a parent preparing to send a kid off to college, it sure would be nice if they weren't all the same.

[Ellenson Guerrero]

Could you fill us in the academic purpose/goal/end McAdams was pursuing when he took to his blog to lambaste a grad student? Is publicly criticizing students an integral part of the poly sci field these days?
Was he conducting research or teaching? Was he engaging on scholarly discourse?
No and no.
He was attacking a grad student over a minor infraction on her part and rehashing long-held grudges with the administration.

This isn't about academic freedom because there was absolutely nothing academic about McAdams' actions or his intents.

Just so we are all clear, this is the most "attacking" portion of McAdams' original post:

"Abbate, of course, was just using a tactic typical among liberals now. Opinions with which they disagree are not merely wrong, and are not to be argued against on their merits, but are deemed 'offensive' and need to be shut up."

[GGGG]

Okay.  I was wrong.  MU is full of it.  

Just so you are aware, the rest of academia disagrees with your and Marquette's view of "academic freedom": http://academeblog.org/2015/02/04/marquette-to-fire-john-mcadams-for-his-blog/

Of course they do.  In the grand tradition of a union, that is what they do whenever a professor is let go.

And I have said that I would not have fired him.  But the idea that he shouldn't even have been reprimanded is beyond silly.  As Pakuni said, this is not an academic issue.

[GGGG]

If anyone wants to try and deny that MU has done a helluva job allientating a helluva lot of people the past several years, be my guest. You'd be a fool, but be my guest.

I don't disagree with this at all.  I would be in the same boat in a number of respects.  Outside of following the basketball program, I don't have much more than a passing interest in the school. 

Times change. I get it. Don't have to like it, but a I get it. Once upon a time one could distinguish MU from the likes of UW-Madison from a cultural values or ideological standpoint. I'm just not sure that's the case anymore, and I think that's sad. Like I said, not unique to MU, but as a parent preparing to send a kid off to college, it sure would be nice if they weren't all the same.

I don't think they are, and I am struggling to understand why you think so.

[NavinRJohnson]

I don't think they are, and I am struggling to understand why you think so.

I should probably rephrase. They aren't all the same, but they're getting there. The gap gets smaller and smaller every day.

As for Marquette, I guess the point is,mi have seen little or nothing in the last decade+ that makes me think, "that is a place I'd really like to see my kids go to college." Now, they may end up going there, but not vp because my wife and I are encouraging it.

[Blue Horseshoe]

Could you fill us in the academic purpose/goal/end McAdams was pursuing when he took to his blog to lambaste a grad student? Is publicly criticizing students an integral part of the poly sci field these days?
Was he conducting research or teaching? Was he engaging on scholarly discourse?
No and no.
He was attacking a grad student over a minor infraction on her part and rehashing long-held grudges with the administration.

This isn't about academic freedom because there was absolutely nothing academic about McAdams' actions or his intents.

Define attacking. What exactly did McAdams do to "attack" the grad student?

[Ellenson Guerrero]

Of course they do.  In the grand tradition of a union, that is what they do whenever a professor is let go.

And I have said that I would not have fired him.  But the idea that he shouldn't even have been reprimanded is beyond silly.  As Pakuni said, this is not an academic issue.

I agree with you: MU would have been well within its rights to publicly reprimand McAdams.  But trying to say you support academic freedom while firing a professor for advocating for the open discussion of issues of legitimate public debate is beyond hypocritical.

[copious1218]

Someone clear this up for me. From accounts that I have heard, the issue of gay marriage was discussed in class the next time they met. If that's the case, how can anyone say she was suppressing academic freedom?  Is she not entitled to determine when issues can be discussed?  If that's not the case, forgive me, and carry on.

[MUfan12]

Define attacking. What exactly did McAdams do to "attack" the grad student?

That's the thing that irks me. He didn't "attack," he criticized.

Now, if you want to blame him for putting the piece out there, thus causing keyboard warriors to attack Abbate, then sure. But there is a difference.

[ChicosBailBonds]

But in your example, isn't the person doing the dressing down almost always in that person's reporting line?

How often does someone in Programming get away with publicly dressing down someone in Accounting?

Correct, almost always.  Thing is, however, some of these guys might have 5,000 employees under them.

Even said, I've seen Exec VP types blast people in other departments on the premise that their actions hurt his ability for his department to do theirs. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Oh God.

Chicos is going to ignore facts and nail himself to his cross of conservative victimhood once again.

I would have thought he would have run out of nails by now.

Your contribution is stellar