Scholarship table
Federer out of the rankings for the first time since 1997.
Serena hanging them up.
good discussion on First Take this morning (Dan Patrick Show is off this week so, ugh, I came across Screamin' A Smith): Serena or Martina, who is the real "GOAT?" Martina won more and had better competition (Chrissy, Seles, Graf, among others). Serena dominated her era and won a Slam nine weeks pregnant but there isn't another real great besides Venus (Sharapova isn't an all-time great) she overcame. fThoughts?https://www.tennisworldusa.org/tennis/news/Serena_Williams/118578/espn-sports-analyst-explains-why-martina-navratilova-is-goat-and-not-serena-williams/
good discussion on First Take this morning (Dan Patrick Show is off this week so, ugh, I came across Screamin' A Smith): Serena or Martina, who is the real "GOAT?" Martina won more and had better competition (Chrissy, Seles, Graf, among others). Serena dominated her era and won a Slam nine weeks pregnant but there isn't another real great besides Venus (Sharapova isn't an all-time great) she overcame. Thoughts?https://www.tennisworldusa.org/tennis/news/Serena_Williams/118578/espn-sports-analyst-explains-why-martina-navratilova-is-goat-and-not-serena-williams/
“Good discussion on First Take this morning,” is not a phrase I have uttered.There is no such thing as GOAT because all players cannot play in all eras under the same circumstances. The best anyone can be is the best or among the best of his or her era. And therefore, they would be among the all time best or greats. It’s silly and not a serious discussion to try compare players from different eras. The list of different circumstances is vast. Travel, Money, Fitness, Coaching, Technology, Gear, Physios, Priorities, tourney organization, scheduling, on and on and on are not the same. Pete Sampras, one of the best players of his era, said it well when he was asked this question:What would you do if you had played in this or that era? His answer: I’d think I’d adjust.
Seles probably would have won another 8+ if she wasn't stabbed. I think people forget what she did as a very young player. To your point I do think Martina and Graf faced better competition at the top. Henin caused Serena a lot of problems and was better on clay. Now all that said I still slot Serena #1 because she had the best serve by far and her court coverage was elite. There have been other players that have been more consistent, including power players like Davenport, but Serena's serve was just so dominant. I still would have loved to see Seles or Graf against Serena at their peak. Because I do think both of them were far and away better than her main competitors as were Martina and Evert.
You may think it's silly or not a serious discussion but people generally like to partake in these hypotheticals and Serena called herself the GOAT which probably piqued some interest in this particular topic.
I do think it is silly and not serious. That’s great that Serena called herself the goat, good for her. She was the best tennis player in her era. I know people who called themselves the goat at making coffee this morning too. Serena, by her own admission, has only been playing the past few years to break a non open era record set by a player who played in the 1960’’s, mostly on grass. And Serena only started doing that because of the “silly” “small” percentage of media and fans who strangely started playing a “counting slams” game. Imagine if she had started counting slams 10 or 15 years ago. Tennis is about much more than counting slams.At one point Chris Evert didn’t play 10 out of 11 straight Australian Opens. This of course was very common in her time with other players too.The United States Open has been played on 3 different surfaces, and, that doesn’t even count for type of grass, type of clay, type of hard court in different eras.You are trying to guess how many more slams a (terribly unfortunate) stabbed 19 year old would have won. You are also trying to compare different eras not accounting for the opportunity of the former older era players to be given the same advantages and circumstances. That automatically favors more modern era players. And you limit your inclusion of past players to one or two dominant players, which is also short sighted.Serena was the best player of her era, and therefore an all time great, one of the best to ever do it. That was short and easy to say.
I do think it is silly and not serious. That’s great that Serena called herself the goat, good for her. She was the best tennis player in her era. I know people who called themselves the goat at making coffee this morning too. Serena, by her own admission, has only been playing the past few years to break a non open era record set by a player who played in the 1960’’s, mostly on grass. And Serena only started doing that because of the “silly” “small” percentage of media and fans who strangely started playing a “counting slams” game. Imagine if she had started counting slams 10 or 15 years ago. Tennis is about much more than counting slams.At one point Chris Evert didn’t play 10 out of 11 straight Australian Opens. This of course was very common in her time with other players too.The United States Open has been played on 3 different surfaces, and, that doesn’t even count for type of grass, type of clay, type of hard court in different eras.You are trying to guess how many more slams a (terribly unfortunate) stabbed 19 year old would have won. You are also trying to compare different eras not accounting for the opportunity of the former older era players to be given the same advantages and circumstances. That automatically favors more modern era players. And you limit your inclusion of past players to one or two dominant players, which is also short sighted.Serena was the best player of her era, and therefore an all time great, one of the best to ever do it. That was short and easy to say. Enjoy lots and lots of great players and all time greats.
With all do respect I think your take of never comparing players in eras, because of your list of reasons, makes for really dull conversation. People do it because it's fun for starters but additionally, great players in all sports have a legacy. They are keenly aware of the history of their craft and are driven by things like grand slam titles and other records. Lastly, I just executed the finest, most dominant, and utterly indisputable all-time best, 4 cup French press coffee carafe with my Kona Peaberry beans. You're damn fking right I'm the 🐐.
Rafa's the men's GOAT, as everyone knows.
Tennis or Coffee Brewer??
Soccer-playing, golfing tennis star.