Would MU recruit Wade, Butler, Crowder in 2021?

[Lennys Tap]

Since Henry went pro MU did not lose any points as long as he left eligible under NCAA standards: 1.8 going into sophomore year, 1.9 going into junior year, 2.0 after that.

Additionally, everyone needs to earn  6 credits per semester, 18 credits during the academic year.  Also, freshmen need 24 credits going into tbe next year (summers count). Then, 40% to a degree at the start of junior year, 60% senior year, 80% fifth year of undergrad.

Under Buzz, nearly the entire team needed summer school just to get eligible for the next season.

Wasn’t Buzz’s average APR was higher than Crean’s and about the same as Wojo’s? Please publish the numbers.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Wasn’t Buzz’s average APR was higher than Crean’s and about the same as Wojo’s? Please publish the numbers.

You can look them up here: https://web3.ncaa.org/aprsearch/aprsearch

The score is a four year average

04-05 (4 TC years) 918
05-06 (4 TC years) 927
06-07 (4 TC years) 954
07-08 (4 TC years) 970
08-09 (3 TC, 1 BW year): 975
09-10 (2 TC, 2 BW years): 980
10-11 (1 TC, 3 BW years: 970
11-12 (4 BW years): 960
12-13 (4 BW years): 959
13-14 (4 BW years): 949
14-15 (3 BW, 1 SW year): 962
15-16 (2 BW, 2 SW years): 966
16-17 (1 BW, 3 SW years): 950
17-18 (4 SW years): 955
18-19 (4 SW years): 968

I think my () info is correct. I'm not certain if APR is calculated at the beginning of the season or end of the season.

Low water mark is the start of TCs tenure but it steadily rises. High water mark is 09-10 which I believe is evenly split between Buzz and TC. From there the numbers go steadily down under Buzz and then trend back up under Wojo.

[Billy Hoyle]

Wasn’t Buzz’s average APR was higher than Crean’s and about the same as Wojo’s? Please publish the numbers.

There have been adjustments to increase numbers. Starting in 2005 you could get a point back for going pro. 2003’s numbers reflected a lost point for Wade. In 2008 you could now get a point back for an immediate transfer to a four year school, as long as you left with a 2.6 or higher. Also, in the past few years you could now get a point back for a transfer to a JUCO if they left with a 3.3.

Crean got penalized for the transfers.

[Lennys Tap]

You can look them up here: https://web3.ncaa.org/aprsearch/aprsearch

The score is a four year average

04-05 (4 TC years) 918
05-06 (4 TC years) 927
06-07 (4 TC years) 954
07-08 (4 TC years) 970
08-09 (3 TC, 1 BW year): 975
09-10 (2 TC, 2 BW years): 980
10-11 (1 TC, 3 BW years: 970
11-12 (4 BW years): 960
12-13 (4 BW years): 959
13-14 (4 BW years): 949
14-15 (3 BW, 1 SW year): 962
15-16 (2 BW, 2 SW years): 966
16-17 (1 BW, 3 SW years): 950
17-18 (4 SW years): 955
18-19 (4 SW years): 968

I think my () info is correct. I'm not certain if APR is calculated at the beginning of the season or end of the season.

Low water mark is the start of TCs tenure but it steadily rises. High water mark is 09-10 which I believe is evenly split between Buzz and TC. From there the numbers go steadily down under Buzz and then trend back up under Wojo.

Thanks, TAMU. Nice to be able to put to rest the fictions pushed by some. Crean/Buzz/Wojo numbers pretty much the same.

[withoutbias]

Thanks, TAMU. Nice to be able to put to rest the fictions pushed by some. Crean/Buzz/Wojo numbers pretty much the same.

Only if you don’t understand how the numbers work.

[Lennys Tap]

Only if you don’t understand how the numbers work.

 Right. A Wojo 955 > a Buzz 960. Because...LOL

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Thanks, TAMU. Nice to be able to put to rest the fictions pushed by some. Crean/Buzz/Wojo numbers pretty much the same.

Sure,  but I do think the trend is relevant. Buzz was trending down while TC and Wojo trended up. We also don't know how close to the line of eligibility each coach's players were. APR is like RPI, doesn't matter how much you got the W by,  it just matters that you got the W. For example,  Coach A could have his entire team get a 2.0 and stay in school.  Coach B could have his entire team get 4.0s but one player leaves early to go pro and doesn't finish the semester. APR would say Coach A has better academics but common sense would say coach B does.

[Lennys Tap]

Sure,  but I do think the trend is relevant. Buzz was trending down while TC and Wojo trended up. We also don't know how close to the line of eligibility each coach's players were. APR is like RPI, doesn't matter how much you got the W by,  it just matters that you got the W. For example,  Coach A could have his entire team get a 2.0 and stay in school.  Coach B could have his entire team get 4.0s but one player leaves early to go pro and doesn't finish the semester. APR would say Coach A has better academics but common sense would say coach B does.

Understood. But, bottom line, our APR was ever really a problem under Buzz no matter the fiction Billy, Bias and others might try to sell us.

[Billy Hoyle]

Understood. But, bottom line, our APR was ever really a problem under Buzz no matter the fiction Billy, Bias and others might try to sell us.

Actually, the 949 is concerning as 930 results in scholarship reductions and post season bans. The annual APR for 13-14 was 920. a small roster one two two more lost points is significant.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Important to remember: during this time, Bucky graduated zero Black players.

[WarriorFan]

Based on the fact that Wojo rarely uses all available scholarships, it looks to me like he doesn't understand how this works either.  Why not park an Einstein on the end of your bench to help the numbers and have an extra practice player?  Instead he leaves the slot open and misses yet another opportunity to improve the program.

So I'll add to my "no-jo"-ism that in addition to not knowing much about coaching an actual game of basketball and not knowing much about metrics, he also doesn't know much about APR.

Buzz's average was 5.3 higher than Wojo's by the way... just in case no-one else did the math.  (Wojo also lower than tanned Tommy if you count his partial years as well!)

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Buzz's average was 5.3 higher than Wojo's by the way... just in case no-one else did the math.  (Wojo also lower than tanned Tommy if you count his partial years as well!)

These numbers are 4-year rolling averages, not the numbers for the specific year. Without knowing the individual scores for each year, the only averages we can accurately compare are the averages for years where one coach was responsible for the entire APR score. So in this case:

TC (04-05 to 07-08): 942.5
BW (11-12 to 13-14): 956
SW (17-18 & 18-19): 961.5

Also, as pointed out before, both TC and SW trended up. BW trended down.

Billy said that there were changes to how APR was calculated too. I honestly don't know what those changes were.

[cheebs09]

If I remember right, there was a bit of concern when the 949 was released. I also think there was a lot of talk that some of Larry’s restrictive policies were getting in front of NCAA changes. I don’t know if the changes were implemented at the NCAA level.

I believe UCONN and UWM both had tournament bans in that timeframe for APR.