P U thoughts

[brewcity77]

What frustrates me is that Wojo still seems way too vanilla in his coaching.  Haas is checking in?  Better counter by sending Matt in to get dominated inside once again.  You're playing right into Purdue's hands by coaching that way.

Thank you. This was my issue last night. Before the game, I said that we likely needed to go small. Sam would need help defending their bigs, but a smaller guy would be more likely to draw offensive fouls and his quickness could exploit their bigs on the other end.

I felt like we never really adjusted. Steals kept it close in the first half but did anyone really feel like we belonged in that game at halftime? I sure didn't.

It was just a hope for turnovers, do damage from the outside plan. Defensively, we were a disaster in the second half. No ability to slow them, much less stop them.

It's tough, because I expected a loss, but it felt to me like we're the same team as last year with fewer offensive options. Same run and gun offense but without the ability to drive as well or establish a post presence, same sieve defense that couldn't defend the post or rotate fast enough.

If it's not working, try small ball and stick with it when Haas comes back in. Try zone, especially once Howard fouls out since you only have one midget to expose.

We were clearly outmatched personnel wise because of their bigs, but that's where coaching has to find a way to make it competitive. Yesterday just felt like rinse, repeat.

[muwarrior69]

I was fairly encouraged. There were so many times they made a shot and I thought, "I'd give them that all day." They just kept hitting a ton of tough shots.

I think the offense needs some time to gel. We didn't seem to get a ton of easy looks. Howard and Rowsey hit a bunch of contested shots.

It seems like every team just keeps hitting the tough shot against us.

[DCHoopster]

Thank you. This was my issue last night. Before the game, I said that we likely needed to go small. Sam would need help defending their bigs, but a smaller guy would be more likely to draw offensive fouls and his quickness could exploit their bigs on the other end.

I felt like we never really adjusted. Steals kept it close in the first half but did anyone really feel like we belonged in that game at halftime? I sure didn't.

It was just a hope for turnovers, do damage from the outside plan. Defensively, we were a disaster in the second half. No ability to slow them, much less stop them.

It's tough, because I expected a loss, but it felt to me like we're the same team as last year with fewer offensive options. Same run and gun offense but without the ability to drive as well or establish a post presence, same sieve defense that couldn't defend the post or rotate fast enough.

Purdue has played a lot of basketball together this summer and fall already.  They are a senior laden team much like Wisconsin was last year.  Have to be impressed
with there team.  MU could have gone small, still would not have been a difference, they are just better.  I am wondering if Froling will change the dynamics of the team at all???

If it's not working, try small ball and stick with it when Haas comes back in. Try zone, especially once Howard fouls out since you only have one midget to expose.

We were clearly outmatched personnel wise because of their bigs, but that's where coaching has to find a way to make it competitive. Yesterday just felt like rinse, repeat.

[4everwarriors]

Tonight sucked but I think Purdue beats us 100 times out of 100. Conversely, I think we are better than VCU, Georgia, Wisconsin, and Vermont. I still think we go 4-0 in those games.

Huh, hey?

[muwarrior69]

Wonder if jamal will see some minutes his way soon

 I thought he was suppose to be the "best" of the four freshman.

[DienerTime34]

1.) For all the credit that Todd Smith gets (and rightfully so in many cases) I'm amazed that Haney is still a well-below-the-rim player. No improvement on his athleticism. Does he have knee/leg problems we don't know about? No explosion to the rim. His role is better suited as the Duane Wilson role -- come in to provide defense for 10-15 minutes, and can possibly get 10-12 points against lesser competition.

2.) We need to ban "bad matchup" from our vocabulary on this board. Any team that has experience and/or is talented at the game of basketball will be a bad matchup for MU this season. 

[wadesworld]

What frustrates me is that Wojo still seems way too vanilla in his coaching.  Haas is checking in?  Better counter by sending Matt in to get dominated inside once again.  You're playing right into Purdue's hands by coaching that way.  Our best stretch of ball last night was when we went small at the end of the first half.  We applied a good amount of pressure and got some steals that led to us cutting the lead to 2 (should have been tied).

Does anyone here think Sam would have done a worse job of defending Haas than Heldt??  In a limited sample, he didn't.  And even if he gave you the same on defense as Heldt (allowing Haas to score every time) then AT LEAST we'd be able to make them pay on the other end because good luck having Haas trail Sam around the 3-point line.  Either Purdue would roll the dice with Haas getting pulled outside consistently on defense or they'd have to just take him out.  I can only recall one possession where Haas was defending Sacar and we got them in a pick and roll with Haas guarding Rowsey (or Markus).  We ended up with points and never saw that again.

I'll concede that it's tough sledding and I'm not saying going small would have won us the game, but God damn at least think outside the box one time.  When we're down 10-12, why not try what you saw had success in the first, as opposed to trotting out the same defense that you know will result in a Haas layup or wide open 3 and a non-threat in Matt on the offensive end.  Such a shame we get Edwards his 4th foul with 13 minutes left and pose no threat the rest of the game.

Thank you. This was my issue last night. Before the game, I said that we likely needed to go small. Sam would need help defending their bigs, but a smaller guy would be more likely to draw offensive fouls and his quickness could exploit their bigs on the other end.

I felt like we never really adjusted. Steals kept it close in the first half but did anyone really feel like we belonged in that game at halftime? I sure didn't.

It was just a hope for turnovers, do damage from the outside plan. Defensively, we were a disaster in the second half. No ability to slow them, much less stop them.

It's tough, because I expected a loss, but it felt to me like we're the same team as last year with fewer offensive options. Same run and gun offense but without the ability to drive as well or establish a post presence, same sieve defense that couldn't defend the post or rotate fast enough.

If it's not working, try small ball and stick with it when Haas comes back in. Try zone, especially once Howard fouls out since you only have one midget to expose.

We were clearly outmatched personnel wise because of their bigs, but that's where coaching has to find a way to make it competitive. Yesterday just felt like rinse, repeat.

We had one of our two best runs of the game when we went small to close out the first half...because Haas and Haarms both had to sit with 2 fouls each.

We already ask Sam to do enough.  If you ask him to bang with a guy that has 5 inches and probably 75 lbs on him all game he's going to be toast by halftime.  It can work for a 4 minute stretch.  It will definitely not work for long runs.

Purdue is as balanced of a team as we'll play.  If you want to go double Haas they'll just hit a bunch of 3s, which is what we saw in the last 10 minutes of the game.  If you want to limit the 3 point line like MU did for the first 30 minutes of the game, then you're leaving a very good big (or 2) down low 1 on 1.

[Marcus92]

This reminds me of the Wisconsin game from a year ago.

The Badgers were one of four opponents that scored at least 80 points against MU at home. (We gave up 81, 86 and 83 in wins against Fresno State, Seton Hall and Creighton.) Wisconsin scored 93 — putting up an incredible 1.31 points per possession (per KenPom.com) and shooting 64.9% on 2-pointers. Purdue only managed 1.23 ppp and 63.6% on 2-pointers.

Both games were also close at the half. We led the Badgers 40-35, trailed Purdue 32-30. Then the deluge. Wisconsin poured in 58 points in the second, Purdue scored 54. If that's defensive intensity, I'm not seeing it.

I sincerely hope this was our worst defensive performance of the season.

[i71_dawg]

1.) For all the credit that Todd Smith gets (and rightfully so in many cases) I'm amazed that Haney is still a well-below-the-rim player. No improvement on his athleticism. Does he have knee/leg problems we don't know about? No explosion to the rim. His role is better suited as the Duane Wilson role -- come in to provide defense for 10-15 minutes, and can possibly get 10-12 points against lesser competition.

2.) We need to ban "bad matchup" from our vocabulary on this board. Any team that has experience and/or is talented at the game of basketball will be a bad matchup for MU this season.

Agreed about Hannif.  Also I was surprised how little muscle/bulk Heldt appears to have.  He's a junior, not a freshman...his arms appear thinner than mine (and I'm 5'9, 160).  It wasn't the lack of height as much as Haas easily overpowering him and backing him down right under the rim.  That's a lack of strength...disappointing.

But overall, I was encouraged by the effort on defense and the fight we had.  Can't play an 8 man rotation and have 4 or 5 of them be total non-factors offensively though. 

.

[Nukem2]

A lot better than I thought actually. Was really expecting a coast to coast blowout.

Two halves that were complete opposites. Defense was excellent in the first half, offense non-existent. Defense was porous in the second half, offense was en fuego in the second half.

Did not understand the decision to double team Haas. Yes, he was taking advantage and getting his with one on one coverage, but we had the rest of their team shut down. If the offense had been clicking in the first half, we would have had a double digit lead at the half. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Purdue shot 100% from the floor on possessions when we double teamed Haas. It was not working.

Sam defers too much....and then seems to force it when he doesn't defer.

Markus and Rowsey have the potential to win us any game. Unstoppable offense.

That Haas kid traveled almost every time he touched the ball. But that is what an experienced and dominant center looks like.

I thought Purdue would be slightly better this season than they were last season. I think I underestimated. That looks like a top 10 team to me.

I'm more confident about our team now than I was before the game. Let's go get dem Rams.

Agree with your thoughts.  And, yes, Haas does travel a lot.  Even the Purdue fans in the row behind us agreed with that.  But, he is a load and RS frosh Haarms from Amsterdam is no slouch either.

[dgies9156]

Haven't read through this thread so I'm sure I'm repeating some of the stuff posted in here.  But overall I'm encouraged by last night. 

I wish I could say the same thing. I want this team to win more than just about anything not related to God or my family. I bleed blue and gold and we've been doing just a bit too much bleeding lately. I know what I am about to say will aggravate some people, but, it's right now how this long-time Warrior feels.

While I like Wojo and I think whatever we're going to be, he's going to get us there, I have one take-away from last night.

I AM TIRED OF REBUILDING!!!!!!!!!!!

Buzz left the cupboard bare. I know that. Wojo has done a remarkable job of raising our recruiting visibility and getting us into places that we haven't been in awhile.

But, for the third year in a row, we "have a young team." At some point this has to gel or we have some problems.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Thank you. This was my issue last night. Before the game, I said that we likely needed to go small. Sam would need help defending their bigs, but a smaller guy would be more likely to draw offensive fouls and his quickness could exploit their bigs on the other end.

I felt like we never really adjusted. Steals kept it close in the first half but did anyone really feel like we belonged in that game at halftime? I sure didn't.

It was just a hope for turnovers, do damage from the outside plan. Defensively, we were a disaster in the second half. No ability to slow them, much less stop them.

It's tough, because I expected a loss, but it felt to me like we're the same team as last year with fewer offensive options. Same run and gun offense but without the ability to drive as well or establish a post presence, same sieve defense that couldn't defend the post or rotate fast enough.

If it's not working, try small ball and stick with it when Haas comes back in. Try zone, especially once Howard fouls out since you only have one midget to expose.

We were clearly outmatched personnel wise because of their bigs, but that's where coaching has to find a way to make it competitive. Yesterday just felt like rinse, repeat.

I absolutely thought we belonged at half time. The job we did locking down the perimeter in the first half was a thing of beauty.  While he didn't look it last night,  Haas is like their 4th best player.  Allowing Haas to get his but locking up everyone else was a sound defensive strategy.  If our shots were falling in the first half,  we would have been up double digits.

Haanif was trying to draw contact on Haas in the first half to get him in foul trouble. I was impressed by his ability to defend without fouling, he's much improved in that area.  If HC had been successful, we might have won the game.

Where i think we should have gone small was when V Edwards picked up his 4th foul.  V Edwards is their best player and we needed Hauser, our best defender, on him.  With him on the bench and Eifert in,  Hauser could have switched to Haas and just about anyone could have taken Eifert.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

2.) We need to ban "bad matchup" from our vocabulary on this board. Any team that has experience and/or is talented at the game of basketball will be a bad matchup for MU this season.

Not in this case. Purdue is the anti-Marquette. Their three starting guards are all 3pt defense specialists. Very few teams defend the three point line better than they do. Throw in two offensive 7 footers and you have Marquettes worst nightmare.  I liked our chances better against Nova than i did against Purdue. And this isn't hindsight,  I've been saying this since Purdue was announced as our opponent.

[brewcity77]

I don't know. 51.7 eFG% when your opponent doesn't hit a single three in the half is pretty dicey defense, especially when they are one of the best long-range shooting teams in the country.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I don't know. 51.7 eFG% when your opponent doesn't hit a single three in the half is pretty dicey defense, especially when they are one of the best long-range shooting teams in the country.

It's the exact same defense opponents used on us several times last season.  Let Fischer get his but lockdown everyone else.  When done successfully,  we lost every time.

[DienerTime34]

Not in this case. Purdue is the anti-Marquette. Their three starting guards are all 3pt defense specialists. Very few teams defend the three point line better than they do. Throw in two offensive 7 footers and you have Marquettes worst nightmare.  I liked our chances better against Nova than i did against Purdue. And this isn't hindsight,  I've been saying this since Purdue was announced as our opponent.

OK, I'll bite. What experienced, talented team is Marquette's best daydream from a match-up perspective?

[BM1090]

I don't know. 51.7 eFG% when your opponent doesn't hit a single three in the half is pretty dicey defense, especially when they are one of the best long-range shooting teams in the country.

I don't think this is completely fair. They didn't hit a 3 because we crowded 3 point shooters in the first half. We didn't allow more than 1 good look that I can remember. They got a lot down low, but that was the gameplan and we saw why when we started doubling the post in the 2nd half and the result was a ton of open threes. Being much smaller than your opponent doesn't equal bad defense. If we play defense like we did last night in the first half, against teams that don't have a dominant center, then the defense will be fine.

The 2nd half was awful.

[RJax55]

I wish I could say the same thing. I want this team to win more than just about anything not related to God or my family. I bleed blue and gold and we've been doing just a bit too much bleeding lately. I know what I am about to say will aggravate some people, but, it's right now how this long-time Warrior feels.

While I like Wojo and I think whatever we're going to be, he's going to get us there, I have one take-away from last night.

I AM TIRED OF REBUILDING!!!!!!!!!!!

Buzz left the cupboard bare. I know that. Wojo has done a remarkable job of raising our recruiting visibility and getting us into places that we haven't been in awhile.

But, for the third year in a row, we "have a young team." At some point this has to gel or we have some problems.

Last year's team wasn't young, not even close. Look at the rotation.

Luke - Senior
Katin - 5th Year Senior
JJJ - Senior
Duane - RS Junior
Rowsey - RS Junior

Yes, Howard and Hauser started and played big minutes, but that was experienced team.

[Lennys Tap]

I'm not upset or, frankly, surprised. As bilsu pointed out, we have only 3 players on our current bench who can be counted on to be solid D1 contributors, and 2 of them are under 6' shooting guards.

What does surprise me, though, is that TAMU, 82 and others feel better about this year's team after watching last night's game. Pomeroy had us losing by 1, Vegas by 4 or 5. Instead we were blown out. In addition, there were no pleasant surprises. Sam, Markus and Rowsey can play and make tough shots - but we knew that. No one else looked like a high D1 contributor to me. Sacar, Cheatham and Heldt (all in their 3rd year) looked liked back ups at best. Elliot and John are freshmen and the jury will be out for a while - but they're not impact players. Cain didn't even play. I hope Froling is a stud - if not this will be a frustrating year.

[MerrittsMustache]

I wish I could say the same thing. I want this team to win more than just about anything not related to God or my family. I bleed blue and gold and we've been doing just a bit too much bleeding lately. I know what I am about to say will aggravate some people, but, it's right now how this long-time Warrior feels.

While I like Wojo and I think whatever we're going to be, he's going to get us there, I have one take-away from last night.

I AM TIRED OF REBUILDING!!!!!!!!!!!

Buzz left the cupboard bare. I know that. Wojo has done a remarkable job of raising our recruiting visibility and getting us into places that we haven't been in awhile.

But, for the third year in a row, we "have a young team." At some point this has to gel or we have some problems.

I honestly feel like, in hindsight, the Ellenson brothers set the program back. In the moment, it made perfect sense to sign them both and if a similar situation arose, I'd expect Wojo to do the same thing. You never pass up an opportunity to bring in a talent like Henry.

That said, Wally provided nothing on the court and Henry was at MU for one unmemorable season where he was basically auditioning for NBA teams. Again, it was the right call to bring in Wally, which led to Henry, but long-term, it didn't help the program and potentially hurt the program. Yes, 2015-16 would likely have been ugly, but going 20-13 didn't add up to anything even with Henry. If the scholarships given to the Ellenson brothers were given to true freshmen, MU would (in theory) have another junior and senior on the current roster. We could theorize all day about who those players could be and how they'd be contributing, etc but at the end of the day, MU's best recruit in 30 years ended up hurting the program in the big picture.

Just to reiterate once again, signing Henry was the "right" move but it did nothing to move the program forward and those schollies given to the Ellensons are a big reason why MU is once again "a young team."

[1SE]

I'm not upset or, frankly, surprised. As bilsu pointed out, we have only 3 players on our current bench who can be counted on to be solid D1 contributors, and 2 of them are under 6' shooting guards.

What does surprise me, though, is that TAMU, 82 and others feel better about this year's team after watching last night's game. Pomeroy had us losing by 1, Vegas by 4 or 5. Instead we were blown out. In addition, there were no pleasant surprises. Sam, Markus and Rowsey can play and make tough shots - but we knew that. No one else looked like a high D1 contributor to me. Sacar, Cheatham and Heldt (all in their 3rd year) looked liked back ups at best. Elliot and John are freshmen and the jury will be out for a while - but they're not impact players. Cain didn't even play. I hope Froling is a stud - if not this will be a frustrating year.

It was a comfortable win for Purdue, but this wasn't a blowout. It was a 1 pt game 25 minutes in and within 6 with under 10 to play. Plus for everything that matters an L is an L - some ways might even be less heartbreaking than if we'd lost by 1 on a last second shot.

[frozena pizza]

It's hard for me to put my finger on exactly why, but I'm really not disappointed about this loss at all.  I expected Purdue to beat us by double digits and thought it could potentially get pretty ugly.  As others have said, they are a major matchup problem for us.  I was pleasantly surprised that we hung in as long as we did but felt all along that they would pull away eventually.  Going forward, I'm a bit nervous about how much we will be relying on Howard and Rowsey shooting threes and hoping everyone else can play some defense.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

OK, I'll bite. What experienced, talented team is Marquette's best daydream from a match-up perspective?

First thought is Xavier. They do a poor job defending the perimeter, have limited interior presence (though Tyrique Jones has looked really good to start the season so I may have to reevaluate in a few weeks), have a PG who can't score, and rely on a single player for a majority of their offense.

Purdue is the worst matchup that we will see all season. Not the best team, but the worst matchup.

[brewcity77]

I don't think this is completely fair. They didn't hit a 3 because we crowded 3 point shooters in the first half. We didn't allow more than 1 good look that I can remember. They got a lot down low, but that was the gameplan and we saw why when we started doubling the post in the 2nd half and the result was a ton of open threes. Being much smaller than your opponent doesn't equal bad defense. If we play defense like we did last night in the first half, against teams that don't have a dominant center, then the defense will be fine.

The 2nd half was awful.

They didn't hit a three and still had a 51.7 eFG%. That is a problem. Yes, we did a good job on the perimeter in the first half, but because of that we allowed Purdue to go 16/24 inside the arc. No matter how good your three point defense is, you won't win many games if your opponents are getting interior baskets at that rate. And that's on the heels of Mount St. Mary's shooting even better than Purdue did inside the arc.

When we harassed Purdue on the perimeter, they destroyed us inside. When we doubled inside, they destroyed us on the perimeter. And while Mount St. Mary's couldn't hit a three to save their lives, they had no trouble scoring inside, and that wasn't just against the youth lineup in the second half as Jay Bee pointed out but also against our first team players.

[dgies9156]

I honestly feel like, in hindsight, the Ellenson brothers set the program back. In the moment, it made perfect sense to sign them both and if a similar situation arose, I'd expect Wojo to do the same thing. You never pass up an opportunity to bring in a talent like Henry.

Merritts, I hear what you are saying. Likewise, I'd go after the Ellensons if I was Wojo in a heartbeat. I just would.

That said, I suspect Wojo in his heart of hearts believed Henry would be a two-year Warrior. Had he stayed last year and with what we had, we would have been a very, very good team. He didn't and, well, that happens. We're rebuilding.

Bringing Henry in proved we could recruit with the "big boys" and was the first chip in getting us back to where we belonged -- being Duke with a bad attitude. I have to believe the confidence of landing a Henry helped seal the Hauser brothers, Markus Howard and Andrew Rousey. It got us in the game with Quentin Grimes, which is someplace we had not been in a long time. The more at bats we get with five star and high four star talent, the better we will be.

Final thought -- Henry was introduced to the crowd at last night's game. Nice to see him at an MU event and suggests some of the initial bad feeling when Wally went away has passed.