Defensive challenge

[tower912]

MU struggled to guard the high pick and roll against Michigan and against Pitt.   Luke struggled in isolation against Young. 
 Any good coach is going to have whoever Luke is guarding be the screener on the high pick and roll.    This takes Luke away from the basket.    As MU played it against Pitt and Michigan, Luke hedges and then tries to recover, with whomever is guarding the weak side wing supposed to guard the paint.    The problem is that guy is generally 6'5.    If Luke's man is also a shooter, he pops out and Luke is late closing on the shooter.   If Luke's man rolls, Luke's hedging has been half-assed, leaving no pressure on the PG and lots of space for the big rolling to the basket. 
Luke is not a good defender in space.   He is a solid post defender and help defender on drives, but when matched up against a mobile big with range, he struggles.     
His struggles are compounded by the lack of size behind him.    When a Michigan big would roll and receive an open pass, is it reasonable to expect KR/JJ/HC to be able to contest at the rim?

This isn't going anywhere the way the defense is currently configured.   Luke can switch all day, but it won't matter.   His guy, whoever it is will always be the screener.     
Things to try:   Zone.   
   Extending pressure, double teaming wayyyyy out high with wings to force the ball out of the primary ballhandlers hands so that the pick and roll isn't as smooth.   
  Changing the way we defend the screen and roll, having Luke not hedge and stay with his man,  giving up jump shots to PG's or taking the chance they turn the corner and try to have them drive into traffic.

This, along with rebounding, was my primary concern about this team.    I warned about it during the offseason.    It will be a test of Wojo's chops to find the right adjustment.    Hint:   Zone.
 

[MUINGB]

makes sense tower.............hope Wojo reads this

[Jay Bee]

Kyle Washington would be so helpful right about now

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Kyle Washington would be so helpful right about now

Was so disappointed we missed on him. Lavin might have been helpful too.

Nichols would have been perfect. But who knows if he would have seen the field. Dismissed today for violation of team rules. In my experience, sudden dismissals for violation of team rules is often title ix related.

[GGGG]

Kyle Washington would be so helpful right about now

Were we a player when he transferred?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Were we a player when he transferred?

Yes. Couldn't convince him that Hank was going to go pro 100%.

[brewcity77]

Were we a player when he transferred?

Yes, came down to us and Cincy. We beat them for Rowsey, lost out for Washington.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Yes. Couldn't convince him that Hank was going to go pro 100%.

Should of had him talk to Wades. 

[Lennys Tap]

Yes, came down to us and Cincy. We beat them for Rowsey, lost out for Washington.

So we won the battle at a position where we're too deep and lost at the one where we don't have anyone. Awesome.

[We R Final Four]

Yes. Couldn't convince him that Hank was going to go pro 100%.

He should have consulted with scoop. Some here knew before HE apparently.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

So we won the battle at a position where we're too deep and lost at the one where we don't have anyone. Awesome.

At the time we had a five star freshman at the position. I love Henry but his recruitment negatively affected our chances with at very least Gabe Levin, Steve Taylor, Kyle Washington, and Austin Nichols. I do find myself wondering if long term we would have been better off if Henry went to Kentucky. No guarantee that Levin stays or Washington/Nichols commit but if they had I think we would be in a better position now. Levin/Taylor last season and Levin/Washington this season might have been more valuable than 1 season of Henry.

To be clear, I think recruiting Henry was the right decision. Gotta get the 5 star when you can. Just wish we would have been able to keep the other PFs on the roster. I want to have my cake and eat it too dammit!

[Marcus92]

This isn't going anywhere the way the defense is currently configured. Luke can switch all day, but it won't matter. His guy, whoever it is will always be the screener.

Things to try: Zone.   

Extending pressure, double teaming wayyyyy out high with wings to force the ball out of the primary ballhandlers hands so that the pick and roll isn't as smooth.
 
Changing the way we defend the screen and roll, having Luke not hedge and stay with his man,  giving up jump shots to PG's or taking the chance they turn the corner and try to have them drive into traffic.

What I see is that Luke isn't really hedging on the high screen — sliding out to disrupt the ball handler's movement toward the basket on a screen. He's essentially switching and staying with the ball handler too long. This gets him caught in no man's land. Not many big men can guard a 1, 2 or 3 off the dribble. And then he's too far away to recover to his man (the screener).

It could be that Luke is playing the way Wojo wants — to switch. Seems like an easier fix is for Luke to hedge instead, then get right back to his man. Better team communication on defense should help, as well.

[tower912]

What I see is that Luke isn't really hedging on the high screen — sliding out to disrupt the ball handler's movement toward the basket on a screen. He's essentially switching and staying with the ball handler too long. This gets him caught in no man's land. Not many big men can guard a 1, 2 or 3 off the dribble. And then he's too far away to recover to his man (the screener).

It could be that Luke is playing the way Wojo wants — to switch. Seems like an easier fix is for Luke to hedge instead, then get right back to his man. Better team communication on defense should help, as well.

We are seeing the same thing, just describing it somewhat differently.    We have to assume Luke is doing what Wojo wants, as Wojo hasn't been screaming at him and pulling him out when he does it and gives up a basket. 

[Let's Go Warriors]

We are seeing the same thing, just describing it somewhat differently.    We have to assume Luke is doing what Wojo wants, as Wojo hasn't been screaming at him and pulling him out when he does it and gives up a basket.

I agree with this.  With this style of Defense on the pick and roll, is it valid to think that Fischer is being told to play it this way?  Maybe someone else is supposed to rotate over on the roll man?  I dont think Fischer or Wojo are dumb.  How can it be that Fischer is playing what appears to be repeatedly stupid defense over and over again?  And in many cases putting him in a position to get a foul 22' from the basket?

At some point while this style can be very valid, dont you have to give up on it?

[tower912]

Buzz used to have his big, Davante/Otule/JFB/Jamil/Jae/Lazar seriously double and turn the PG away from the basket out toward the wing.    Then, once the PG turned and reset out on the wing, they would be sprinting back into the lane with their hands up to potentially blindly block a pass to a post.    The weakside wing would be sitting in the lane, ready to recover back out their shooter as the MU big returned to the middle.     Wojo's system is less extreme and does seem to leave Luke in no-man's land.    I don't know if this is systemic or due to Luke's lack of lateral quickness. 

[GoldenDieners32]

Buzz used to have his big, Davante/Otule/JFB/Jamil/Jae/Lazar seriously double and turn the PG away from the basket out toward the wing.    Then, once the PG turned and reset out on the wing, they would be sprinting back into the lane with their hands up to potentially blindly block a pass to a post.    The weakside wing would be sitting in the lane, ready to recover back out their shooter as the MU big returned to the middle.     Wojo's system is less extreme and does seem to leave Luke in no-man's land.    I don't know if this is systemic or due to Luke's lack of lateral quickness.

We should try a 2-3 zone

[mu03eng]

At the time we had a five star freshman at the position. I love Henry but his recruitment negatively affected our chances with at very least Gabe Levin, Steve Taylor, Kyle Washington, and Austin Nichols. I do find myself wondering if long term we would have been better off if Henry went to Kentucky. No guarantee that Levin stays or Washington/Nichols commit but if they had I think we would be in a better position now. Levin/Taylor last season and Levin/Washington this season might have been more valuable than 1 season of Henry.

To be clear, I think recruiting Henry was the right decision. Gotta get the 5 star when you can. Just wish we would have been able to keep the other PFs on the roster. I want to have my cake and eat it too dammit!

This is 100% plus it artificially raised expectations on the program. I know you have to take the 5 star in your backyard who wants to come here, but man I don't know that it worked out in our favor long term.

[Marcus92]

We have to assume Luke is doing what Wojo wants, as Wojo hasn't been screaming at him and pulling him out when he does it and gives up a basket.

You're probably right here.

Luke does eventually get back to his man — assuming the screener hasn't rolled to the basket and gotten a mismatch or open look down low — but I'm always surprised to see Luke stay with the ball handler as long as he does. In my head (or sometimes out loud), I'm screaming "get back, get back!"

I'm sure Wojo is well aware of the risks of this approach. Maybe the defense is primarily designed to stop dribble-drive penetration — giving the on-ball defender more help and hopefully forcing more steals (leading to fast-break points) or lower-percentage shots. We are a Top 50 team in steal percentage, although only slightly above average in terms of turnovers. Defensive eFG%, 2PT% and 3PT% are all better than the D1 average, but not by much. All those stats are improved over last season.

KenPom currently projects Marquette as the 5th best offense and defense in the Big East this season — versus 8th and 7th, respectively, a year ago. It's by no means a great team on either side of the ball. But it might just be good enough to get us back to the NCAAs.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

This is 100% plus it artificially raised expectations on the program. I know you have to take the 5 star in your backyard who wants to come here, but man I don't know that it worked out in our favor long term.

The expectations for the program are the same regardless of HE.  I believe you are talking about timing...how soon MU returns to 'satisfactory' performance.

Fact of the matter is MU needs to become an NCAA tourney team this year or next year.  Otherwise we will be comparing to some pretty dark days in basketball history. 

I just think that rationalizing your way into HE being a huge detriment to the program is just a smoke screen - you only talk about it if we fail to reach the expectations set by MU.

[mu03eng]

The expectations for the program are the same regardless of HE.  I believe you are talking about timing...how soon MU returns to 'satisfactory' performance.

Fact of the matter is MU needs to become an NCAA tourney team this year or next year.  Otherwise we will be comparing to some pretty dark days in basketball history. 

I just think that rationalizing your way into HE being a huge detriment to the program is just a smoke screen - you only talk about it if we fail to reach the expectations set by MU.

May be parsing words, but if by timing you mean the timetable to return to those lofty expectations then yes I agree. HE accelerated the perceived timeline for when MU would be back in the tournament. Basically HE was an energy drink...you get an initial surge but eventually you crash out because you tried to do things artificially.

Again, this is hindsight given how HE did at MU, what remains to be seen is: did HE not totally work out because of HE or did it not work out because Wojo couldn't coach the group he had correctly. Jury is out right now.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

May be parsing words, but if by timing you mean the timetable to return to those lofty expectations then yes I agree. HE accelerated the perceived timeline for when MU would be back in the tournament. Basically HE was an energy drink...you get an initial surge but eventually you crash out because you tried to do things artificially.

Again, this is hindsight given how HE did at MU, what remains to be seen is: did HE not totally work out because of HE or did it not work out because Wojo couldn't coach the group he had correctly. Jury is out right now.

I agree, but both for the good and bad College Basketball is just a string of energy drinks. 

With only five guys starting, only 7-8 playing, early entrants into the NBA, grad transfers, regular transfers, etc, etc, etc.  It is a sport that can be impacted quickly (both good and bad) and momentum is huge for both recruiting and your ability to get grad transfers. 

There is a reason that coaches are panicky fellows that always try to win next year. 

[Lennys Tap]

This is 100% plus it artificially raised expectations on the program. I know you have to take the 5 star in your backyard who wants to come here, but man I don't know that it worked out in our favor long term.

I agree with both you and TAMU on this. It's one of the reasons I laugh when people contrast Buzz and Wojo. Buzz was "quick fix", they say, and as evidence point to two year (Buycks, Fulce, Crowder) and three year (Jamil, JFB, DJO) players he recruited. Why he even brought in a one year player in Trent Lockett! Wojo, OTOH, is a "long term" builder - who brought three "one and dones" (Carlino, HE and Reinhardt) to MU in three years and has gone hard after several others unsuccessfully. And he's brought in two year players Levin (briefly), Wally E and Rowsey. Bottom line: if anything, Wojo has been more aggressive with the quick fix, rebuild on the fly approach than Buzz. But because it hasn't been successful, people here have created the myth of his "long term approach".

[Let's Go Warriors]

I agree with both you and TAMU on this. It's one of the reasons I laugh when people contrast Buzz and Wojo. Buzz was "quick fix", they say, and as evidence point to two year (Buycks, Fulce, Crowder) and three year (Jamil, JFB, DJO) players he recruited. Why he even brought in a one year player in Trent Lockett! Wojo, OTOH, is a "long term" builder - who brought three "one and dones" (Carlino, HE and Reinhardt) to MU in three years and has gone hard after several others unsuccessfully. And he's brought in two year players Levin (briefly), Wally E and Rowsey. Bottom line: if anything, Wojo has been more aggressive with the quick fix, rebuild on the fly approach than Buzz. But because it hasn't been successful, people here have created the myth of his "long term approach".

Excellent point.  And then add to the fact that there are some on this board that decry anything that may mention that Wojo COULD possibly be in over his head at this point in his first head coaching gig.  I really hope he gets this thing going.  I REALLY do, because MU gets back to where they need to be quicker if Wojo works out.  I am however, having my doubts with regards to his ability to teach defense to this team.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Excellent point.  And then add to the fact that there are some on this board that decry anything that may mention that Wojo COULD possibly be in over his head at this point in his first head coaching gig.  I really hope he gets this thing going.  I REALLY do, because MU gets back to where they need to be quicker if Wojo works out.  I am however, having my doubts with regards to his ability to teach defense to this team.

I haven't seen anyone "decry anything that may mention that wojo could be in over his head." I have seen people decry things that declare that wojo is a failure and will never get better and should be fired immediately.

[BM1090]

I agree with both you and TAMU on this. It's one of the reasons I laugh when people contrast Buzz and Wojo. Buzz was "quick fix", they say, and as evidence point to two year (Buycks, Fulce, Crowder) and three year (Jamil, JFB, DJO) players he recruited. Why he even brought in a one year player in Trent Lockett! Wojo, OTOH, is a "long term" builder - who brought three "one and dones" (Carlino, HE and Reinhardt) to MU in three years and has gone hard after several others unsuccessfully. And he's brought in two year players Levin (briefly), Wally E and Rowsey. Bottom line: if anything, Wojo has been more aggressive with the quick fix, rebuild on the fly approach than Buzz. But because it hasn't been successful, people here have created the myth of his "long term approach".

But Wojo did that because he had too, because he was left an incomplete roster. It doesn't seem to be his preferred method. Buzz on the other hand, had a full roster given to him and still recruited a lot of "quick fix" players.

I think Buzz's "quick fix" guys stick out more because they were typically our best players, while his HS recruits were largely unsuccessful.