Kevin O'Neil: "If Davante started he'd average 20 points/game"

[Wade for President]

Calling the game in the first half last night, O'Neil said that he's been telling Buzz all year long to start Davante, and if he did, the big man would easily avg 20 points a game.

The comment stood out to me for a few different reasons:  It's cool to see a former MU coach have such a close relationship with Buzz (is there anybody that Buzz doesn't know well?!?).  Secondly, what kind of truth is there behind that statement?

Are we truly not maximizing Davante's contributions at MU?  Is conditioning still the thing holding him back from playing more minutes (tend to disagree with this - Ox is dunking this year after all).  Is having Otule on the jump ball that crucial?  Is his defense still that much of a liability?

To have one of our most efficient, best passing, most crafty low post players in over a decade, rarely start a game in his four year career is a bit odd.

I would hate to go through four years of a player's eligibility, without squeezing out every ounce of potential/contribution.  

How do you guys feel about this?

[PGsHeroes32]

Idk about 20 ppg but it's asinine he doesn't play at least 32 minutes a game.

The guy will get to the line at least 10 times if he plays that much. At that point you expect then 8-10 at the line. 8 points.

Hes a highly efficient scorer and doesn't take a lot of shots usually 5-8 a game. Give him 32 and that extends to 11 or 11. That means AT LEAST 6 FGs or 7-9 on a good day.

So yeah that would be 20 I guess. But his FG attempts could vary by teams. Still will never understand why we don't play him vs Creighton. Their only weakness is a big man.

[downtown85]

Two questions:

1.  Davante did start a bunch of games, what did he average during that time?

2. Isn't the number of minutes important and not who starts?  

Apparently this season, DG has averaged 26 minutes a game while CO has averaged 18.  DG averages 15 points per game, CO averages 6.  Together the center position averages 21 points per game as it is.  

Are you saying that if DG was on the court at the time of the jump ball his average would be up 5 pts per game given the same minutes?  I find that hard to believe.

If you are saying that he should be played more minutes, I defer to the coach and the game situation.  More DG against DePaul would've been a disaster, for example.  In a lot of cases, last night included, there is a lot of subbing offense for defense between CO and DG.  I think the coach knows what he is doing there.

BTW, I missed the O'Neill comment even though I watched the game.  I may have gotten up to grab a bite to eat or something when he said it.

If KO is saying playing more Gardner would lead to Gardner scoring more points.  I would agree.  However, that would probably lead to us getting fewer stops.  It's a trade off the coach must make and I think the balance is probably about right right now.  

My 2 cents.  

[tower912]

   He is getting starter's minutes now.   

[PGsHeroes32]

   He is getting starter's minutes now.   

20,26,20,23,23

Those are not starters minutes. Not on a normal teams.

Most teams play their best players 30 minutes a game at least.

[MarsupialMadness]

20,26,20,23,23

Those are not starters minutes. Not on a normal teams.

Most teams play their best players 30 minutes a game at least.

Ya except Gardner is subbed out on defense... For a reason.

[PGsHeroes32]

Ya except Gardner is subbed out on defense... For a reason.

No there really isn't a reason. MattyV's stats prove it.

Our record proves it.

NEXT.

[reinko]

I want Gardner fresh and not in foul trouble the last 8 min of the game.  This strategy ensures that.

[tower912]

mattyv's stats show that according to one matrix, Gardner is almost as good a defender as Otule.  

[bilsu]

Gardner gets tired, if he plays to many minutes, so he caanot play much more than he is playing now.

[Marqevans]

I think Gardner would get into foul trouble early every game if he had to play more defense.

[towncryer]

I want Gardner fresh and not in foul trouble the last 8 min of the game.  This strategy ensures that.

I definitely see it both ways, but this makes the most sense to me.  Especially with how he shoots free throws, I want him playing as much as possible at the end of the game. 

[PGsHeroes32]

mattyv's stats show that according to one matrix, Gardner is almost as good a defender as Otule.  

And he is. Its incredible how overrated our "defensive team" is.

Again, your "eye test" watch ASU. Where the doors were blown off. Could score first half vs OSU. Start second half? BLOWOUT. Wisconsin? BLOWOUT.

The one and only run George Washington made against us? Starting the second half vs...yeah you know.

Chris is great at help defense but he gets abused if his man goes 1 on 1.

Go to gtowns boards. Even they salivate at Gardner. It really is not hard to see

[chapman]

This already happened.  Best sample to go from is the six game stretch from January 4 - January 25 where he started.  He averaged 19.8 PPG, and played 37.8 MPG.  We went 3-3.  So pretty close, if "starting" also means playing 34-42 minutes.  Not so sure that proves KO right.

[🏀]

Gardner can't effectively play more than 30 MPG.

In 35 minutes against George Washington, he shot 20%. He was destroyed defensively in the second half as George Washington forced him out to arch and made 3 3PA against him. GW also shot 50% in the paint in the second half.

In 35 minutes against DePaul, they scored 23% in the paint in the first half against Davante and 80% in the paint in the second half.

Seton Hall, @Georgetown, @Butler & Villanova all over 30 MPG, and opposing teams shot at least 10% better against him.

[NavinRJohnson]

So wait, you mean if he plays more minutes, he'll score more points? Why didn't buzz think of that? Nevermind that it also means more fatigue, more fouls, more points for the other team, etc. of course that doesn't fit with the whiney bitch narrative.

As it is, he's averaging more than 26 minutes, so what are you complaining about, the fact that he doesn't actually start the game? Based on current averages, if he played 32 mpg, he would go from 15.1, to 18.3 PPG - assuming of course he maintains his effectiveness, which is not a safe assumption.  Of course that increase will also necessarily come at the expense of someone else, so the net gain is not the full 3 points.

St easy to throw out some arbitrary number like 32 minutes, but the potential gains on offense could easily be offset by fatigue, fouls, etc.

[willie warrior]

Gardner gets tired, if he plays to many minutes, so he caanot play much more than he is playing now.

BS!!! Gardner has played multiple games this year where he has played 30 plus minutes and been very effective. Go back and look it up.

[RawdogDX]

Gardner can't effectively play more than 30 MPG.

In 35 minutes against George Washington, he shot 20%. He was destroyed defensively in the second half as George Washington forced him out to arch and made 3 3PA against him. GW also shot 50% in the paint in the second half.

In 35 minutes against DePaul, they scored 23% in the paint in the first half against Davante and 80% in the paint in the second half.

Seton Hall, @Georgetown, @Butler & Villanova all over 30 MPG, and opposing teams shot at least 10% better against him.

Great post.  I suspected that was the case.

[tower912]

Gardner can't effectively play more than 30 MPG.

In 35 minutes against George Washington, he shot 20%. He was destroyed defensively in the second half as George Washington forced him out to arch and made 3 3PA against him. GW also shot 50% in the paint in the second half.

In 35 minutes against DePaul, they scored 23% in the paint in the first half against Davante and 80% in the paint in the second half.

Seton Hall, @Georgetown, @Butler & Villanova all over 30 MPG, and opposing teams shot at least 10% better against him.

The eyeball test shows him getting gassed when he plays too many minutes, too.   

[mu03eng]

BS!!! Gardner has played multiple games this year where he has played 30 plus minutes and been very effective. Go back and look it up.

Its your theory, you go prove it.  People have posted evidence that your theory doesn't hold water, go find at least 3 games where Davante got more than 30 minutes and he performed better than games like last night

[🏀]

The eyeball test shows him getting gassed when he plays too many minutes, too.  

I do have to give Davante credit for ASU though, he played better overall on both ends.

[🏀]

BS!!! Gardner has played multiple games this year where he has played 30 plus minutes and been very effective. Go back and look it up.

See two posts above yours. He loses effectiveness defensively and teams drag him out of the paint.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

It may not be fatigue when he plays a lot of minutes. Davante can get disinterested. I think Buzz plays him a perfect amount of minutes.

[Big Papi]

It's almost impossible to come onto these boards when MU has a bad year or at least a below average year.  Everybody is an expert and Buzz is some stupid hick schmo who shouldn't be coaching grade school ball, let alone a collegiate team.  Get real people.  I think he has proven over the course of his time here at MU that he is a pretty darn good coach and he by far and away has the best idea of how to manage this clearly dysfunctional team.  He will not always make the right decisions but he has figured it out for the most part.

What gets me is that the so called college basketball expert coaches on these boards will rip on Buzz when he plays too many players.  Then they rip on him because he doesn't play enough players.  He gets ripped on because so and so plays too little, yet gets ripped on when that same player plays too much.  These same posters feel that our bench players are better than our starters, those that play limited minutes should play maximum minutes and incoming recruits are the saviors and are hands down better than the experienced players we have.  And it goes on and on and on.  God I wish we were forced to use our real names on these boards, it would eliminate a lot of stupidity.

Personally, I like the number of minutes everyone has been getting over the last 5-6 games of the year.  Buzz has figured out how to best utilize this team and he IS playing the right players at the right time.  That doesn't mean we are going to win every game or even make the NCAA tournament as we do have too many limitations but I do feel a whole lot better about this team now than I did a month ago.     

[NersEllenson]

Simple question:  Who do you think is the MU player that concerns opposing coaches the most??

Gardner being on the court 30-33 minutes is best option - his presence alone creates opportunities for all the other guys.  It is just beyond sad that his senior year coincides with the biggest deficiency we've had at PG in a long time...

Gardner is a willing passer, commands a ton of defensive attention - on a team that is offensively challenged, in that our coach says we play 4 on 5 offensively, and yet has for the most part continued to choose this option for 30.1 minutes per game.