Buzz's coaching

[BCHoopster]

Did Buzz make a mistake with playing Juan over Deonte Burton all year.  I think so.  Burton, even though he makes many mistakes, has the ability to score which this team is deficient on.
Against St. Johns, Burton scored 10 points which if Juan was consistent on doing he would be playing 30 minutes a game, had a few good game early, but is as bad a shot as DWill is.  In saying what I have said, I hope the next few games he does not play Juan and keeps playing Deonte.  The one issue I see with Deonte is how the ball comes out of his hand, the ball has a sideway spin, that has to be changed in the future.

[NersEllenson]

Burton is to Juan what Dawson is to Derrick...you are going to get a few more mistake, not as good of defense, but a significantly improved offensive threat, which in turn threatens/stresses the opposition defense much more...and opens up things for all the other guys on floor.  Had these two guys been given starting roles 5 games into this season, and gotten the consistent ability to play together...along with Jake, Todd, Davante, Jamil - this team absolutely would not have finished WORSE than 9-9 in conference play, but likely 11-7, 12-6....and by this point in the season would be over a lot of the freshman growing pains, and have had the benefit of playing together for the better part of the last 2-3 months...and be poised to be playing their best ball of the season.

[mu03eng]

Did Buzz make a mistake with playing Juan over Deonte Burton all year.  I think so.  Burton, even though he makes many mistakes, has the ability to score which this team is deficient on.
Against St. Johns, Burton scored 10 points which if Juan was consistent on doing he would be playing 30 minutes a game, had a few good game early, but is as bad a shot as DWill is.  In saying what I have said, I hope the next few games he does not play Juan and keeps playing Deonte.  The one issue I see with Deonte is how the ball comes out of his hand, the ball has a sideway spin, that has to be changed in the future.

Look at the minutes though, Juan is not holding Burton back and the minute distribution has gone in totally different directions.  One could also use the same argument for Juan, his defense is better than most on the team, and he's aggressive on offense just ineffectual.  Had Juan played more minutes perhaps he is more comfortable in the offense and therefore produces better results.  I still would have given Burton the minutes over Juan from a development standpoint but I think there is an argument to be made.

[harigtad]

agree.
Burton even makes some 3's so his outside shot can't be that bad (certainly not worse than dwill or Anderson).
Should have played youth but probably too late now, we are unfortunately what we are and that's not a good team.
Hope buzz loosens the reigns from the get go next year.
If you heard gardners senior day speech he hinted that he was a pain in the ass in a few areas off the court practice etc so probably why buzz never warmed up to him starting.

[GOO]

Some of these players improved a lot from early on.  Burton, early on and even a month ago, seemed to get the ball and only see the hoop and he was going to shoot it no matter what.  Tunnel vision on offense and a bit lost on defense.  Burton now passes it and seems to see the game better and is more of a team player.  Playing him when he wasn't as good, would only reinforce these bad habits (maybe).   Burton is a stud and will be a great one, but only if he listens and continues to develop within the team.  I love what I've seen from Burton the last month.  A killer on offense, who now looks to play on a team.

Mayo, turned a corner this year.  He is a different player now then in December or even January.  It isn't just about playing time, he is better.  Does this happen if he starts from day one?  I don't know. I don't know what the issues were... but he sure seems to have turned a corner this winter. 

Dawson, still seems like a work in progress.  Good or bad on any given possession.  Simply playing him 30 minutes a game from day one may have worked or it may have shattered his confidence.  Or it may have had the effect of players not being able to cover or know where to be on defense, but so what, you get to play anyway.... I don;t know. 

Buzz just may know what he is doing with these guys.  But he has to consider the present and the long term ramifications of his decisions.  If there are rules to play, such as knowing where to be on defense, effort, etc, and you sacrifice these rules, it isn't only for a game or for this year, that becomes your program (Kennedy at DePaul anyone? Lavin at St. John's).

[Windyplayer]

Look at the minutes though, Juan is not holding Burton back and the minute distribution has gone in totally different directions.  One could also use the same argument for Juan, his defense is better than most on the team, and he's aggressive on offense just ineffectual.  Had Juan played more minutes perhaps he is more comfortable in the offense and therefore produces better results.  I still would have given Burton the minutes over Juan from a development standpoint but I think there is an argument to be made.

I could be, too.

[chapman]

Burton averages 6.6 less MPG than the next lowest All-Rookie team player.  The other nine coaches say yes.

[Windyplayer]

Burton averages 6.6 less MPG than the next lowest All-Rookie team player.  The other nine coaches say yes.

Those same coaches that tabbed us as pre-season favorites to win the conference?

[forgetful]

Some of these players improved a lot from early on.  Burton, early on and even a month ago, seemed to get the ball and only see the hoop and he was going to shoot it no matter what.  Tunnel vision on offense and a bit lost on defense.  Burton now passes it and seems to see the game better and is more of a team player.  Playing him when he wasn't as good, would only reinforce these bad habits (maybe).   Burton is a stud and will be a great one, but only if he listens and continues to develop within the team.  I love what I've seen from Burton the last month.  A killer on offense, who now looks to play on a team.

Mayo, turned a corner this year.  He is a different player now then in December or even January.  It isn't just about playing time, he is better.  Does this happen if he starts from day one?  I don't know. I don't know what the issues were... but he sure seems to have turned a corner this winter. 

Dawson, still seems like a work in progress.  Good or bad on any given possession.  Simply playing him 30 minutes a game from day one may have worked or it may have shattered his confidence.  Or it may have had the effect of players not being able to cover or know where to be on defense, but so what, you get to play anyway.... I don;t know. 

Buzz just may know what he is doing with these guys.  But he has to consider the present and the long term ramifications of his decisions.  If there are rules to play, such as knowing where to be on defense, effort, etc, and you sacrifice these rules, it isn't only for a game or for this year, that becomes your program (Kennedy at DePaul anyone? Lavin at St. John's).

+1

[mu03eng]

I could be, too.

Yes, but unless you have talents that were massively missed in recruitment, you don't even have the ability to get to the hoop in DI basketball.  Juan can get to the hoop...yes he misses layups but hey so did Vander his first two years (not even close to comparing the two but 95% of the problem is getting to the hoop).  He can also shoot the ball, or least last year he could.  So the argument could be made if he got more playing time he would be better.  It's the same argument made for Dawson, just Juan doesn't fit the narrative.

[Windyplayer]

Yes, but unless you have talents that were massively missed in recruitment, you don't even have the ability to get to the hoop in DI basketball.  Juan can get to the hoop...yes he misses layups but hey so did Vander his first two years (not even close to comparing the two but 95% of the problem is getting to the hoop).  He can also shoot the ball, or least last year he could.  So the argument could be made if he got more playing time he would be better.  It's the same argument made for Dawson, just Juan doesn't fit the narrative.

These guys that should be getting more PT--Dawson and Burton--have shown flashes of offensive prowess so some are led to believe that more PT would yield more of that offense and understandably so. Anderson really hasn't shown anything to make that logical connection nor has he ever, really. If Anderson converted on a few drives or drained a shot every now and then, then maybe you could make the argument for more PT equating to greater success, but at this point, we know what we have in him.

[mu03eng]

These guys that should be getting more PT--Dawson and Burton--have shown flashes of offensive prowess so some are led to believe that more PT would yield more of that offense and understandably so. Anderson really hasn't shown anything to make that logical connection nor has he ever, really. If Anderson converted on a few drives or drained a shot every now and then, then maybe you could make the argument for more PT equating to greater success, but at this point, we know what we have in him.

I think that's false, they were are polar opposites.  Juan has great defense/rebounding with some offensive capability(not finishing), whereas Dawson and Burton have shown flashes of offense with limited defensive capability.  Also remember Juan is converting from a post player to a wing player, that's not an easy transition.

You state that your position as fact when it's really opinion.  If I wanted to take the time, or had access to game film I could show you multiple times this season where Juan got to the rim as an offensive spark or last season where he hit a number of trailer 3s.  Mine is also an opinion so not fact either.

I'm just saying we can't selectively apply the more PT gets better results narrative.

[NersEllenson]

I think that's false, they were are polar opposites.  Juan has great defense/rebounding with some offensive capability(not finishing), whereas Dawson and Burton have shown flashes of offense with limited defensive capability.  Also remember Juan is converting from a post player to a wing player, that's not an easy transition.

You state that your position as fact when it's really opinion.  If I wanted to take the time, or had access to game film I could show you multiple times this season where Juan got to the rim as an offensive spark or last season where he hit a number of trailer 3s.  Mine is also an opinion so not fact either.

I'm just saying we can't selectively apply the more PT gets better results narrative.

I think we can confidently say Deonte Burton is a much better player than Juan Anderson right now, and will only get better with more minutes.

I think we can confidently say John Dawson is a much better offensive player than Derrick Wilson right now, and will only get better with more minutes.

If guys haven't put it together by the END of their junior years - they likely aren't going to show much improvement as a senior.

You cannot simulate game speed and situations in practice as best you try - young guys greatly benefit from getting on court time.  This team would be in a better position currently, and for next year...if Buzz had given both Deonte and John 20 minutes a game consistently, and not given the the short leash.

[Stretchdeltsig]

Agree that Burton and Dawson should have played much, much more.  And, JJJ should have played more.

[Windyplayer]

I think that's false, they were are polar opposites.  Juan has great defense/rebounding with some offensive capability(not finishing), whereas Dawson and Burton have shown flashes of offense with limited defensive capability.  Also remember Juan is converting from a post player to a wing player, that's not an easy transition.

You state that your position as fact when it's really opinion.  If I wanted to take the time, or had access to game film I could show you multiple times this season where Juan got to the rim as an offensive spark or last season where he hit a number of trailer 3s.  Mine is also an opinion so not fact either.

I'm just saying we can't selectively apply the more PT gets better results narrative.

It really comes down to whether you think Anderson or Burton should see more minutes on the floor. We've seen Anderson for 3 years and Burton for one season in limited capacity. I think Anderson has seen the floor plenty to disprove that he would be a major contributor if he were given major minutes. There is plenty of evidence that Burton could be a major contributor with major minutes. Burton's defense is serviceable and will get better with time--we've seen how active he is with his hands and jumping passing lanes. I guess I'm still not getting your argument.

[BCHoopster]

Agree that Burton and Dawson should have played much, much more.  And, JJJ should have played more.

JJJ must have hit the wall, I would not be surprised if there was school issues here.  Just a guess.

[mu03eng]

It really comes down to whether you think Anderson or Burton should see more minutes on the floor. We've seen Anderson for 3 years and Burton for one season in limited capacity. I think Anderson has seen the floor plenty to disprove that he would be a major contributor if he were given major minutes. There is plenty of evidence that Burton could be a major contributor with major minutes. Burton's defense is serviceable and will get better with time--we've seen how active he is with his hands and jumping passing lanes. I guess I'm still not getting your argument.

Again not advocating Juan over Burton, just saying it is easier to look at someone with offensive splashes and deficient defense than it is to look at someone with defensive splashes and deficient offense.

Burton's defense can improve....Juan's offense can improve.  If the argument is that more playing time yields better results, it's possible you can get better offense out of Juan, just like playing time might yield better results for Deonte.

[mu03eng]

I think we can confidently say Deonte Burton is a much better player than Juan Anderson right now, and will only get better with more minutes.

I think we can confidently say John Dawson is a much better offensive player than Derrick Wilson right now, and will only get better with more minutes.

If guys haven't put it together by the END of their junior years - they likely aren't going to show much improvement as a senior.

You cannot simulate game speed and situations in practice as best you try - young guys greatly benefit from getting on court time.  This team would be in a better position currently, and for next year...if Buzz had given both Deonte and John 20 minutes a game consistently, and not given the the short leash.

The issue I have with the premise is "they will get better with more minutes", that's not a fact.  See the whole point on Juan, if your statement is true than Juan will get better with more minutes play him more.

 I agree Burton is better offensively than Juan, but Juan is better defensively.  In this case Burton's offense is clearly better and his defense isn't that bad in comparison get him more minutes (which he's not taking from Juan anyway, who's getting very limited minutes).

I agree Dawson is better offensively than Derrick, but Derrick is better defensively.  In this case Dawson's offense is only occasionally better than Derrick's and Derrick's defense is usually better(not always) which makes it a tougher call.  In this case I do think Buzz made a mistake not getting Dawson at least 15 minutes a game since non-conference.

[NersEllenson]

The issue I have with the premise is "they will get better with more minutes", that's not a fact.  See the whole point on Juan, if your statement is true than Juan will get better with more minutes play him more.

 I agree Burton is better offensively than Juan, but Juan is better defensively.  In this case Burton's offense is clearly better and his defense isn't that bad in comparison get him more minutes (which he's not taking from Juan anyway, who's getting very limited minutes).

I agree Dawson is better offensively than Derrick, but Derrick is better defensively.  In this case Dawson's offense is only occasionally better than Derrick's and Derrick's defense is usually better(not always) which makes it a tougher call.  In this case I do think Buzz made a mistake not getting Dawson at least 15 minutes a game since non-conference.

Agree with some of what you write - yet there is the "eye test," that does need to be taken into consideration as far as evaluating a players offensive potential.  I just don't see Juan's offensive game getting better - given what I've seen of him in his 3 years.  His shots going to the basket aren't even close.  He's never squared well on shots off of drives.  I do think he can shoot about 35% from perimeter, but that's the ceiling.  He's best served to be that energy guy off the bench..if you need a defensive spark/hustle.

Dawson and Burton both show a lot of talent and creativity offensively - they eye test shows as much in their case.  I also don't think Dawson has gotten a fair shake/shot this year...Pomroy throws out stats in games a player plays less than 10 minutes - as he views them as statistically irrelevant.  Dawson for the year in games he played averaged 10.3 minutes...so barely statistically relevant in Pomroy's view.  He's played in 11 games more than 10 minutes..again just over a statistical threshold of 10..using Pomroy's view.  As I've said before...it is so incredibly difficult to perform when you get 3 or 4 stints of 2 to 3 minutes of run....and then the bench...

[mu03eng]

Agree with some of what you write - yet there is the "eye test," that does need to be taken into consideration as far as evaluating a players offensive potential.  I just don't see Juan's offensive game getting better - given what I've seen of him in his 3 years.  His shots going to the basket aren't even close.  He's never squared well on shots off of drives.  I do think he can shoot about 35% from perimeter, but that's the ceiling.  He's best served to be that energy guy off the bench..if you need a defensive spark/hustle.

Dawson and Burton both show a lot of talent and creativity offensively - they eye test shows as much in their case.  I also don't think Dawson has gotten a fair shake/shot this year...Pomroy throws out stats in games a player plays less than 10 minutes - as he views them as statistically irrelevant.  Dawson for the year in games he played averaged 10.3 minutes...so barely statistically relevant in Pomroy's view.  He's played in 11 games more than 10 minutes..again just over a statistical threshold of 10..using Pomroy's view.  As I've said before...it is so incredibly difficult to perform when you get 3 or 4 stints of 2 to 3 minutes of run....and then the bench...

And this is where I guess we agree to disagree.  As a player(and I've played at the D1 level in another sport), you make the most of the minutes you get.  I guarantee if Dawson was doing the right things in his 2 to 3 minute stints he would have more than 2 to 3 minutes a stint.  As an example, in the Gtown game he performed and got the minutes he earned.  You can't go into a game as a freshmen with expectations and university revenue on the line and expect to play through bad/stupid.  It's just not a reality, and you have to adjust your game accordingly, be focused from the outset, be prepared mentally, etc.

I agree Dawson has the physical tools but he doesn't have the mental game yet, when he does he should be good, but you don't figure out that mental game on the court in conference play.

[GOO]

And this is where I guess we agree to disagree.  As a player(and I've played at the D1 level in another sport), you make the most of the minutes you get.  I guarantee if Dawson was doing the right things in his 2 to 3 minute stints he would have more than 2 to 3 minutes a stint.  As an example, in the Gtown game he performed and got the minutes he earned.  You can't go into a game as a freshmen with expectations and university revenue on the line and expect to play through bad/stupid.  It's just not a reality, and you have to adjust your game accordingly, be focused from the outset, be prepared mentally, etc.

I agree Dawson has the physical tools but he doesn't have the mental game yet, when he does he should be good, but you don't figure out that mental game on the court in conference play.

++  Well stated.  Some great common sense here.

[MUBillsTil2017]

I was at the Bradley Center on Saturday for the first time and had a great time watching the game.  I especially enjoyed Buzz's coaching moves as he constantly held his players accountable for their play.  I saw no evidence that Buzz's "favors" one player over another.  Jake Thomas was very good defensively and was the only 3pt threat the Eagles could count on.  He made a number of nice defensive stops plus of course that amazing reflexive shot to end the first half.  Mayo also did a good job offensively but was abused on defense a few times.  I'm not even of average bball IQ but I can do a decent job of comparisons.  I watched one of Marquette's early season games and noted they didn't have reliable shooters past 10 feet from the rim.  In Saturday's game it was more of the same, including FT's. 

Their problem isn't Buzz in the slightest.  It's poor shooting.   Buzz needs to do a better job recruiting, his coaching looks to be where you'd want it for these young players, accountability with every play.

[Windyplayer]

And this is where I guess we agree to disagree.  As a player(and I've played at the D1 level in another sport), you make the most of the minutes you get.  I guarantee if Dawson was doing the right things in his 2 to 3 minute stints he would have more than 2 to 3 minutes a stint.  As an example, in the Gtown game he performed and got the minutes he earned.  You can't go into a game as a freshmen with expectations and university revenue on the line and expect to play through bad/stupid.  It's just not a reality, and you have to adjust your game accordingly, be focused from the outset, be prepared mentally, etc.

I agree Dawson has the physical tools but he doesn't have the mental game yet, when he does he should be good, but you don't figure out that mental game on the court in conference play.

But you can as a junior? Anyway, back to Anderson, I still don't get what you're saying about him. If he were to play more, his defense would be even better? My point is that he's not good offensively, and he's had the minutes last year and at times this year to show that. My whole premise is that more time is warranted based on success in limited minutes. Burton had that success so i want him playing more minutes. You're saying that Anderson should get more minutes because of his defense and hope that he mircaculously plays better on offense in those minuntes? I get what you're saying about differentiating between offense and defense, but Burton's defense is serviceable and his offense absolutely blows Anderson's out of the water. So, what has Anderson done to deserve more minutes exactly?

[Windyplayer]

Again not advocating Juan over Burton, just saying it is easier to look at someone with offensive splashes and deficient defense than it is to look at someone with defensive splashes and deficient offense.

Burton's defense can improve....Juan's offense can improve.  If the argument is that more playing time yields better results, it's possible you can get better offense out of Juan, just like playing time might yield better results for Deonte.

No, no, no. Anderson has had his chance. Burton has not. The argument is more playing time yields greater results if that player has produced in that limited playing time. Yes, it's possible Juan can improve on offense with more time, it's also possible that Iraq will serve as a model of democracy this year. The increase in playing time is based on results in short stints. Buzz knows Anderson's limits on offense and plays him as much as he can for his defense--which isn't incredible by any stretch. His time out there right now is earned through defense NOT offense, and for how little he plays, that should tell you how much Buzz values his defense (granted, he may be slightly victimized by a deficient offense this year). I think the great divide is Anderson has been here for 3 years and Burton for a year in a limited capacity. How do you reconcile that with your argument?

[mu03eng]

No, no, no. Anderson has had his chance. Burton has not. The argument is more playing time yields greater results if that player has produced in that limited playing time. Yes, it's possible Juan can improve on offense with more time, it's also possible that Iraq will serve as a model of democracy this year. The increase in playing time is based on results in short stints. Buzz knows Anderson's limits on offense and plays him as much as he can for his defense--which isn't incredible by any stretch. His time out there right now is earned through defense NOT offense, and for how little he plays, that should tell you how much Buzz values his defense (granted, he may be slightly victimized by a deficient offense this year). I think the great divide is Anderson has been here for 3 years and Burton for a year in a limited capacity. How do you reconcile that with your argument?

I'm not really arguing for Juan, so I don't have to rectify it.  I'm arguing against the blank statement of "if they get more playing time they will be better".

Also, if I wanted to rectify it, I would say that Juan has had only this season as a wing player so he is learning just as much as Burton is even though he has been in program for a couple of years.  Juan is learning to finish from the wing as opposed to with his back to the basket.

And my other point, is because everyone loves offense they are biased to accept a player with offensive strength and defensive weakness as opposed to the opposite.  In net they might be equal but there is a natural bias towards offense.