2012 NFC North/NFL Thread

[GGGG]

I think this year is going to look a lot more like 2010 than it will 2011 for the Packers.  I can see a 10-6 season...I don't think their lines are all that good and their defensive backfield still worries me.  If they can get their act together, they could make a run in the playoffs, but I don't see them plowing through the regular season again this year.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I think this year is going to look a lot more like 2010 than it will 2011 for the Packers.  I can see a 10-6 season...I don't think their lines are all that good and their defensive backfield still worries me.  If they can get their act together, they could make a run in the playoffs, but I don't see them plowing through the regular season again this year.

The only way to stop rodgers is pass rush.

If the Packers o-line can hold up, they will win a lot of games 36-30. (13-3)

If the o-line doesn't hold up, they will lose some games 30-24. (10-6)

[MarsupialMadness]

Sample size is 9 games (Atl, NO, GB (home), Min (home), SD, Car, TB, Det/Chi home and home)

Cutler 2111 yds on 282 pass attempts, avg yds per attempt 7.48 yds, 11 TD, 7 Int (1 in every 40 attempts)

Stafford 2655 yds on 344 attempts, avg yds per attempts, 7.71 yds,  19 TD,  12 Int (1 in every 29 attempts)

Since stats don't lie, I'm having a tough time seeing a significant advantage there.

Stats don't lie, but sometimes they don't tell the whole story.  I like how you broke down the yardage and interception frequency, but ignored the TD pass frequency (because it doesn't favor your argument).

From your small sample size:
Cutler - 1 TD every 26 attempts
Stafford - 1 TD every 18 attempts

I love the Bears, but sometimes Jay Cutler is god awful.  When he is on and the o-line is doing their job, he will march down the field with the best of them.  But there are a handful of games over the past few years where the Bears passing game just looked pathetic.  

[jmayer1]

I think this year is going to look a lot more like 2010 than it will 2011 for the Packers.  I can see a 10-6 season...I don't think their lines are all that good and their defensive backfield still worries me.  If they can get their act together, they could make a run in the playoffs, but I don't see them plowing through the regular season again this year.

Disagree, I think Rodgers is too good for that to happen. Their offensive line is actually pretty good now if everyone stays healthy (they have horrendous depth) and their defensive line should be much better with the additions they made, especially taking some of the load off Raji and allowing him to make more plays again. I think LB is still a question, only Mathews is proven. Smith and Perry have talent but are untested. Hawk is "assignment sure" as the coaches like to say, but he doesn't make any big plays. The defensive backfield will be much better if they can get any kind of a decent pass-rush. I think you'll see a bounce-back season from Tramon Williams after his injury, but both the nickel cb and strong safety worry me a bit, although at least they seems to have multiple options at both (maybe Shields can return to the form he flashed at the end of his rookie year). However, with their cake schedule, I just don't see 6 losses there.

[MerrittsMustache]

I love the Bears, but sometimes Jay Cutler is god awful.  When he is on and the o-line is doing their job, he will march down the field with the best of them.  But there are a handful of games over the past few years where the Bears passing game just looked pathetic.  

No doubt Cutler can be frustrating to watch at times but the fact that Earl Bennett (a nice #3) has been his best WR while in Chicago has a lot to do with the passing game struggles. IOW, if WRs aren't where they're supposed to be and/or a QB doesn't trust his WRs to be where they're supposed to be, things can get ugly fast.

[JD]

If anybody needs Packer tickets let me know...

(Green Bay package, section 122, Row 6, seats 22, 23) Seats are on the end in the aisle.

Gracias.

[Hards Alumni]

If anybody needs Packer tickets let me know...

(Green Bay package, section 122, Row 6, seats 22, 23) Seats are on the end in the aisle.

Gracias.

How much, and all games?

[wadesworld]

If anybody needs Packer tickets let me know...

(Green Bay package, section 122, Row 6, seats 22, 23) Seats are on the end in the aisle.

Gracias.

I'd love Packer tickets.  PM me with further information as to price and games.  Thanks!

[JD]

To be honest, i really don't feel like calling Ticketmaster, etc to see what they want and what the prices are going for.  I do have all of the games, except this sunday.

I'm not looking to make a killing on the tickets, I think $20 above face value is fair, perhaps we can workout some sort of a MU deal, since i rather go to a MU game anyday before a cold Packer game.

[wadesworld]

To be honest, i really don't feel like calling Ticketmaster, etc to see what they want and what the prices are going for.  I do have all of the games, except this sunday.

I'm not looking to make a killing on the tickets, I think $20 above face value is fair, perhaps we can workout some sort of a MU deal, since i rather go to a MU game anyday before a cold Packer game.

Could I call dibs on the Bears game next Thursday? And possibly the Lions game?

[DegenerateDish]

Stats don't lie, but sometimes they don't tell the whole story.  I like how you broke down the yardage and interception frequency, but ignored the TD pass frequency (because it doesn't favor your argument).

From your small sample size:
Cutler - 1 TD every 26 attempts
Stafford - 1 TD every 18 attempts

I love the Bears, but sometimes Jay Cutler is god awful.  When he is on and the o-line is doing their job, he will march down the field with the best of them.  But there are a handful of games over the past few years where the Bears passing game just looked pathetic.  

I didn't go for TD's not because it didn't support my argument, but the variance isn't that great, it really isn't.

[jmayer1]

I didn't go for TD's not because it didn't support my argument, but the variance isn't that great, it really isn't.

But interceptions is???

Int - 1 in 29 compared to 1 in 40 = 38% difference
TDs - 1 in 18 compared to 1 in 26 = 44% difference

Even your hand-picked stats don't favor Cutler, although they don't favor Stafford by much. Jay has never had a season that approached what Stafford did statistically last year, good WRs or not, feasting against weak competition or not.

I was going to let this debate die but since it's been brought up again by others:

Did you really use pro bowls to support your argument? The pro bowl selections are laughable and should never, ever enter a debate regarding the value of players. When Rodgers missed out two years ago and Stafford missed out last year, but the great Andy Dalton makes it last year or Donald Driver in 2010 when he had 51 catches for 565 yards and 4 tds, you know those "honors" don't have a lot of merit.

You say Stafford is injury prone (he is/was) but Cutler is not. However Cutler has been unable to finish the last 2 seasons (including an NFC title game!!) and also has a history of concussions. How many exactly is tough to pinpoint, but you can bet anything that resembles one these days will be highly scrutinized in this crackdown on brain trauma. i won't go so far as to say Cutler is injury prone, but he's also no Brett Favre.

People have different opinions of course, I happen to think Stafford is on the cusp of being elite, while Cutler is an above average NFL starter. However, I'll freely admit my Packers-Bears bias may influence my thinking!!

[DegenerateDish]

But interceptions is???

Int - 1 in 29 compared to 1 in 40 = 38% difference
TDs - 1 in 18 compared to 1 in 26 = 44% difference

Even your hand-picked stats don't favor Cutler, although they don't favor Stafford by much. Jay has never had a season that approached what Stafford did statistically last year, good WRs or not, feasting against weak competition or not.

I was going to let this debate die but since it's been brought up again by others:

Did you really use pro bowls to support your argument? The pro bowl selections are laughable and should never, ever enter a debate regarding the value of players. When Rodgers missed out two years ago and Stafford missed out last year, but the great Andy Dalton makes it last year or Donald Driver in 2010 when he had 51 catches for 565 yards and 4 tds, you know those "honors" don't have a lot of merit.

You say Stafford is injury prone (he is/was) but Cutler is not. However Cutler has been unable to finish the last 2 seasons (including an NFC title game!!) and also has a history of concussions. How many exactly is tough to pinpoint, but you can bet anything that resembles one these days will be highly scrutinized in this crackdown on brain trauma. i won't go so far as to say Cutler is injury prone, but he's also no Brett Favre.

People have different opinions of course, I happen to think Stafford is on the cusp of being elite, while Cutler is an above average NFL starter. However, I'll freely admit my Packers-Bears bias may influence my thinking!!

Yup on the interceptions.

I never said they favored Cutler, I was going against your argument that you said Stafford was significantly better than Cutler (thank you for saying "they don't favor Stafford by much") which just helps correct your original statement, that yes, is influenced by your bias.

I'm all for good football arguments, but the glasses need to be taken off. Again, I have no issue with someone saying Stafford is better. He's got one of the best arms in football (Cutler is up there too).

I said for arguments sake about Pro Bowl's, I don't put much value in them either. Cutler has had concussions, but only missed 1 game in 2010 because of them. Again, for arguments sake, Cutler has 3 seasons of 16 games, 1 season of 15 games. In 3 seasons Stafford has 1 full season. Just sayin.

[mugrad2006]

FOOTBALL! FOOTBALL! FOOTBALL! FOOTBALL! FOOTBALL! FOOTBALL! FOOTBALL!

[Blackhat]

How'd Christian Ponder look today, bj?

making progress and worth the 10th pick thus far?

[real chili 83]

Up 3.  Vikes win.  He had a good game.

[Blackhat]

Thought he would be pretty good...a buddy was saying  he's still only reading about half the field each time he drops.    Vikes need another receiver.

[real chili 83]

20/27' 270 yards.

[real chili 83]

AP, 2 td's.  New kicker won the gane.   Booted a 50+ yd fg to go to OT.

[GGGG]

My goodness are these replacement refs TERRIBLE.  Not benefiting either team, but they are missing *very* obvious calls in the Packer / 49er game.

[DegenerateDish]

Cobb TD should not have been.

[jmayer1]

Cobb TD should not have been.

Agreed the 2nd block they showed was illegal. They have missed a ton of PI calls though. Very inconsistent on both sides. I would think there will be a loud outcry to get the regular refs back this week.

[77ncaachamps]

GO NINERS!!!!

[Jay Bee]

Ponder, AD, Percy, Rudolph all w/solid offensive games. 

49ers winning was good, but Harbaugh is a grade a jag.

SKOL VIKINGS.  FIRST PLACE, NFC NORTH!  Packers are getting worried about the 12/30 game in Minneapolis..

[Benny B]

My goodness are these replacement refs TERRIBLE.  Not benefiting either team, but they are missing *very* obvious calls in the Packer / 49er game.

I agree that the replacements are living up to their reputation, but the utter lack of respect for the officials from the coaches, players and media is getting very tired.