Kolek planning to go pro
I agree that there's semantics involved, as there is in so many of these discussions.I mean, maybe Anthony Edwards IS more "talented" than Jordan, Bryant, etc, were, but he's obviously not more "accomplished." One could make a similar argument about McDavid vs Orr/Gretzky/Lemieux, even if I disagree.So I'll say right now that maybe I shouldn't have been so dismissive of Subban's comment.However, I'll also say that maybe ESPN's hockey expert shouldn't be 100% certain that a talented guy who has led his team to absolutely nothing of note in 9 years is more talented than uber-talented icons who led their teams to greatness. And, in the cases of Orr and Gretzky, talented icons who did things on the ice that no hockey observer had ever seen before ... and who set standards that the likes of McDavid are still trying to match.
No the issue is you used Edwards with McDavid.One guy has been the best player in his sport over and over again already by his mid 20sThe other while extremely talented most argue isn’t even a superstar within his current peers yet.
No, the issue is the definition of "talented."But sure, take Edwards out of this if you possibly can. I will - I shouldn't have used that example because I didn't need to.Not a shred of actual evidence exists to "prove" that Connor McDavid is more talented than Orr, Gretzky and Lemieux were (and probably others, too, but those 3 are pretty obvious). It's classic recency bias. And only somebody who knows absolutely nothing about hockey before the turn of the century would argue that McDavid has been more accomplished or important than any of those 3.
Not a shred of actual evidence exists to "prove" that Connor McDavid is more talented than Orr, Gretzky and Lemieux were (and probably others, too, but those 3 are pretty obvious). It's classic recency bias. And only somebody who knows absolutely nothing about hockey before the turn of the century would argue that McDavid has been more accomplished or important than any of those 3.
Huh???You keep twisting yourselfFirst you say “talented” then you finish with “accomplishments”Did goldeneagles03 hack your account with the goal post shifting?No one one here has said McDavid has accomplished more than Gretzky or Orr. Hell, no one has even said he’s definitely more talented. You just keep using insane analogies and arguments because you’re upset Subban said he’s the most talented to ever play.Which right or wrong, is not outlandish. He’s an absolute freak.I think the only bias is truly you with current generation type players and more of a love for nostalgia. You’re the same guy who acts like Mike Trout is closer to Michael A Taylor talent wise than Hank Aaron.
I'm not sure how one "proves" an entirely subjective opinion, but that said ... if you can watch Connor McDavid skate end-to-end at top speed, stickhandling through five defenders and then deking a goaltender and scoring top shelf, and not believe he might be the most gifted players ever, I'm not sure what I can tell you.If you're equating talent with only production, you're correct, Gretzky is unparalleled. But I don't think it's crazy to define talent more broadly.
However, I'll also say that maybe ESPN's hockey expert shouldn't be 100% certain that a talented guy who has led his team to absolutely nothing of note in 9 years is more talented than uber-talented icons who led their teams to greatness. And, in the cases of Orr and Gretzky, talented icons who did things on the ice that no hockey observer had ever seen before ... and who set standards that the likes of McDavid are still trying to match.
I know the Coyotes were an abysmal failure in Phoenix, but I'm not sure Salt Lake is a great idea. The next smallest metropolitan area that has both an NHL and NBA team is Denver. Denver is the 19th largest metropolitan area...Salt Lake is 46th.
Its worth nothing that unlike Gretzky's time in Edmonton, McDavid's time has been with a largely incompetent organization. 99's first Stanley Cup winning team had 6 other future HOFers. In McDavid's 9 years, he's played with exactly ONE other player who has made more than 1 ASG, much less a HOF resume. Other than Draisaitl, there has been one solitary ASG appearance from ANY other Oiler in 9 years (Taylor Hall in 2016 when McDavid was a rookie). They've managed to put absolute garbage around him for almost a decade.