Buzz

[Cheeks]

Come on now.  If that were true he would have a problem with Wojo as well wouldn't he?

Yup.  Logic lacking....playing the race card, it is what he and others do because they have nothing else.  Very sad, very predictable.  Oh well.

[Mutaman]

Yup.  Logic lacking....playing the race card, it is what he and others do because they have nothing else.  Very sad, very predictable.  Oh well.

Oh please. Buzz consistently had a team of all Afro Americans , Wojo never has. its so obvious why Chicos hates Buzz.

[Mutaman]

...playing the race card, it is what he and others do because they have nothing else. 

Actually Chicos we have a zillion  other things- one for each time you've been suspended.

[dgies9156]

Back to the Cowboy...

Look, the guy was a winner at Marquette and a winner at Virginia Tech. He generally did his coaching job well (absent his last season with us) and recruited athletes who moved us into a consistent level we had not seen since the Al years. IMHO, there were two coaches since Al who could have led us to the promised land -- Kevin O'Neill and the Cowboy. Had either not left us, we probably would be a consistent Top 10 team.

Sorry folks, seeing him dance at mid-court in Morgantown, WV after beating Huggie made me feel for a brief moment like we were in the 1970s again! The Cowboy had a personality too, which was nice to see!

The Cowboy isn't with us any longer for a couple of reasons. The first is that he is an itinerant coach. Every year, we shook while we waited for other schools to shop at Store Cowboy. We wondered who inevitably would hire him. We knew the question wasn't if he would leave, it was when. Not sure even Texas A&M has stopped that!

The second reason is the pressure the university put on him to end the shenanigans. When a basketball player's misbehavior ends up on the front page of the Chicago Tribune, you have a problem. When a woman alleges a sexual assault and campus security calls the basketball coach instead of following Wisconsin law, you have an even bigger problem. Top all that off with an allegation of a very minor NCAA recruiting violation and the Administration had to do something. They did and Team Cowboy didn't like it -- one bit.

Ultimately, the Cowboy likely left in no small measure because he'd worn his welcome out at Marquette. His last season started when Vander Blue turned pro, leaving us with no serviceable point guard, and ended with a disaster in which a team alleged to be good enough to compete for a Big East title, was horrible. More than a few thought he had mailed his last season in, already checking out before it even started.

While he was with us, the rap on the Cowboy was he didn't develop talent, start to finish. He was really good at chasing JUCO transfers, but as I recall, really only the aforementioned Mr. Blue was developed from a freshman into a top tier Big East player. Add to all of this the classless manner in which the Cowboy left and for a lot of us, it was good riddance.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Oh please. Buzz consistently had a team of all Afro Americans , Wojo never has. its so obvious why Chicos hates Buzz.

Dude don’t be a dick. 

[Cheeks]

Dude don’t be a dick.

Did he really say that...my God.  So weird that I supported Shaka Smart as our head coach, or easily more than 90% of my favorite MU players through the years are minority...but again, Mutaman and facts don’t exist together.  What a sad man.

[#UnleashSean]

My guess is they coaches can order alcohol if they pay for it themselves.  My other guess is that they don't drink alcohol when they are with the team.

And the players that are 21+

[Jon]

I'll try point by point:

Majerus used his PR people and his "jolly fat man" reputation to spin things his way, focusing on the minor things. Again, the NCAA doesn't do an investigation for buying a team dinner. 

Yes, there is cheating. Coach friends have been open saying who cheats and who does not. Nothing they can do. Think about it, Dave Bliss tried to smear a dead kid and the coach who turned him in was the one blacklisted.  Honor amongst thieves.

Al was not a saint, nor was Wooden. But that was a different time.  I had a Washington football player from the '60s telling a few of us about the cars he got to use back in the day. That was rampant and not frowned upon. I would imagine that at the time there was no NCAA rule book. There weren't even academic standards for initial eligibility (see: Chris Washburn and Dexter Manley) or continuing eligibility (see: Len Bias) until the late '80s.

I've heard plenty about Duke too. Their (alleged) scheme is a good one!  I have never heard anything about Wojo.

The UNC approach that they took was brilliant. It wasn't athletics, it was the school and those classes were offered by everyone. It became an issue of jurisdiction. Since UNC was able to prove every student had access to the courses and athletes were not the disproportionate population taking the classes the NCAA didn't have the power to sanction them; it was for their Accreditation organization to do that. remember how the NCAA's penalties against Penn State were overturned by the courts - the judge determined the violations were not those found in NCAA bylaws. UNC was hit a few years earlier for academic and agent issues in football.

There have only been three D1 programs given the Death Penalty, the last being SMU. If Baylor didn't get it back in 2005 then nobody will. The NCAA does go after big schools. They wanted to nail Miami so bad the lead investigator got himself fired for his tactics. What hamstrings the NCAA is that they don't have subpoena power.

It's funny that Tark, one of the dirtiest coaches in history, used the Cleveland State example right when they were rightfully nailed for paying recruits in the mid 80's - Manute Bol was at the center of the violations.  He was trying to play the victim and the myth survives to this day.

Thanks for the insight.

I think the bottom line is that high major college sports is a business. I have always been against payment schemes but a harmonized, curated system is likely the best possible mechanism for managing the abuses.

I have two sons who participated in inter-collegiate athletics. One was on an NCAA Championship team in a minor sport for a small liberal arts college in New England. Players were restricted to in-season formal participation. Another played high major football where being on the team was a year round activity, including summers.

The emphasis by the small liberal arts college was academics while the large land-grant school set the bar at remain eligible.   

We aren't shocked when we hear about abuses at the came-out-of-nowhere Wichita States or the UKs of the world but when it is clear the Dukes and Stanfords are playing loose, programs held up as examples of the student-athlete ideal, it is pretty clear the system is broken.

Since you are in the compliance biz, is there merit to a harmonized, curated system that would  level the playing field by establishing standards of compensation for student-athletes? 

[Jon]

Well I know you didn't plagiarize that statement because nobody else would write something so foolish. Might have to agree with "droll" -("funny, humorous, amusing, comic, comical, mirthful") Even when Ford is treating issues as serious as racism and miscegenation, he manages to mix in comedic elements. Just like Twain.

You avoided the question.

How do you celebrate a film that perpetuates vicious, ugly stereotypes of Native Americans?

And yes, in the context of what I wrote, droll is very much correct as a statement about your support of a film which portrays Natives in such a vile, repugnant manner.

Let me ask was your favorite scene the one in which Jeffrey Hunter kicks his "squaw" down the hill or in the depiction of Comanches as primitive, blood-thirsty savages utterly devoid of any moral center?

Your defense of a film that has been derided by critics as pablum and identified by Indian Country as a nasty testament to white society's profound disgust for the Native community is mind-boggling.

Frankly, it screams volumes about you, a self-identified sophisticated "Progressive Liberal" of discriminating tastes.

The Searchers is racist garbage that demeans a noble people who have been decimated by systematic policy and action. Your support of it diminishes your claim to the intellectual perch on which you have placed yourself.

The only "beauty" in The Searchers is Ford's Monument Valley backdrop but that prop really has no place in the story. If you want to see how stunning visuals are an integral part of the story I would suggest you view Kurosawa's Ran or Kagemusha. But then, his being Japanese and all, you likely have no taste for art crafted by a yellow man.




http://screenprism.com/insights/article/is-the-searchers-portrayal-of-native-americans-problematic

https://azdailysun.com/entertainment/movies/the-searchers-a-racist-frontier-myth/article_315f6956-b764-54fd-8eaa-2c85bbf0d75e.html

https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/04/the-searchers-john-ford-john-wayne-mediocre-western/

http://www.philfilms.utm.edu/1/searchers.htm

[Jon]

Dude don’t be a dick.

He's not a dick. He's a racist.

[JWags85]

Back to the Cowboy...

Look, the guy was a winner at Marquette and a winner at Virginia Tech. He generally did his coaching job well (absent his last season with us) and recruited athletes who moved us into a consistent level we had not seen since the Al years. IMHO, there were two coaches since Al who could have led us to the promised land -- Kevin O'Neill and the Cowboy. Had either not left us, we probably would be a consistent Top 10 team

KO has as much to do with Marquette's basketball resurgence as Crean, but id pump the brakes.  He had 1 NCAA appearance post-Marquette, not counting his random year as the interim coach at Zona.  I think he was a great turnaround guy and caught lightning in a bottle with that local class of Key, Logterman, and Mac.  But I don't think it would have been sustainable much past that, problems with the admin or boosters aside.

[Mutaman]

"The film was a commercial success. Since its release, it has come to be considered a masterpiece and one of the greatest and most influential films ever made. It was named the greatest American Western by the American Film Institute in 2008, and it placed 12th on the same organization's 2007 list of the 100 greatest American movies of all time.[4] Entertainment Weekly also named it the best Western.[5] The British Film Institute's Sight & Sound magazine ranked it as the seventh-best film of all time based on a 2012 international survey of film critics[6][7] and in 2008, the French magazine Cahiers du Cinéma ranked The Searchers number 10 in their list of the 100 best films ever made.[8]

In 1989, The Searchers was deemed "culturally, historically, or aesthetically significant" by the United States Library of Congress, and selected for preservation in its National Film Registry; it was one of the first 25 films selected for the registry.

The Searchers was the first major film to have a purpose-filmed making-of, requested by John Ford. It deals with most aspects of making the movie, including preparation of the site, construction of props, and filming techniques.[9] "

Wiki

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Oh please. Buzz consistently had a team of all Afro Americans , Wojo never has. its so obvious why Chicos hates Buzz.

Surprised you did use "colored", you racist a$$hole.

[TallTitan34]

Oh please. Buzz consistently had a team of all Afro Americans , Wojo never has. its so obvious why Chicos hates Buzz.

Have you seen the current roster????

[Billy Hoyle]

Back to the Cowboy...

Look, the guy was a winner at Marquette and a winner at Virginia Tech. He generally did his coaching job well (absent his last season with us) and recruited athletes who moved us into a consistent level we had not seen since the Al years. IMHO, there were two coaches since Al who could have led us to the promised land -- Kevin O'Neill and the Cowboy. Had either not left us, we probably would be a consistent Top 10 team.

Hmmm, you forgot the guy who got us closer to the "promised land" than any other coach since Al and didn't have the resources that Buzz had. A coach who also rebuilt a devastated Indiana program and got them to multiple Sweet 16's and two outright Big Ten titles. Buzz started much further ahead at Va Tech than TC did at Indiana and didn't have the same level of success (unless you ask him). TC would have been the guy.

And let's not forget this quote regarding the BE invite:  Big East commissioner Mike Tranghese cited his friendship with Crean as contributing to the invitation, saying, "That, to me, was one of the great appeals, to get Tommy as well as Marquette into the league."

[TallTitan34]

Hanging at the Al?

This might be the first thread that could be moved from the Superbar.

[Mutaman]

Surprised you did use "colored", you racist a$$hole.

Eloquently put, Robespierre.

[JWags85]

Hmmm, you forgot the guy who got us closer to the "promised land" than any other coach since Al and didn't have the resources that Buzz had. A coach who also rebuilt a devastated Indiana program and got them to multiple Sweet 16's and two outright Big Ten titles. Buzz started much further ahead at Va Tech than TC did at Indiana and didn't have the same level of success (unless you ask him). TC would have been the guy.

And let's not forget this quote regarding the BE invite:  Big East commissioner Mike Tranghese cited his friendship with Crean as contributing to the invitation, saying, "That, to me, was one of the great appeals, to get Tommy as well as Marquette into the league."

I'm not a Crean hater but this is lunacy.  Maybe if Crean was the AD.  He peaked at Marquette and thats why he left.  He knew it.  He made a FF with probably the best player in program history and a consensus top 20-25 player in NBA history.  He didn't sniff those heights again in 4 years after.

Buzz made 3 straight S16s, was a terrible shooting game away from the F4 in 2013.  He was set up to continue that path before he quit on the program.

Crean helped transform the program but leveraging lightning in a bottle into a BEast invite.  He's a MU legend for that alone.  But there is way less what-if to him than Buzz.  We got 4 years off backside relative decline from his peak to assess that.  Both parties were better off with his parting in the long run.

[tower912]

Hmmm, you forgot the guy who got us closer to the "promised land" than any other coach since Al and didn't have the resources that Buzz had. A coach who also rebuilt a devastated Indiana program and got them to multiple Sweet 16's and two outright Big Ten titles. Buzz started much further ahead at Va Tech than TC did at Indiana and didn't have the same level of success (unless you ask him). TC would have been the guy.

And let's not forget this quote regarding the BE invite:  Big East commissioner Mike Tranghese cited his friendship with Crean as contributing to the invitation, saying, "That, to me, was one of the great appeals, to get Tommy as well as Marquette into the league."

Seriously?   IU fans were tired of Crean when he couldn't get Oladipo, Yogi, and Zeller past the S16.      9 NCAA tournament bids in 19 years as a head coach.     Career conference record of 163-163.       I appreciate what he did at MU     190 wins in 9 years, a final 4.    But he only won one other tourney game in his other 8 years at MU   He is recruiting well at Georgia, but he recruited well at IU initially, too.     He is a decent coach.    But not a great one.

[Billy Hoyle]

Seriously?   IU fans were tired of Crean when he couldn't get Oladipo, Yogi, and Zeller past the S16.      9 NCAA tournament bids in 19 years as a head coach.     Career conference record of 163-163.       I appreciate what he did at MU     190 wins in 9 years, a final 4.    But he only won one other tourney game in his other 8 years at MU   He is recruiting well at Georgia, but he recruited well at IU initially, too.     He is a decent coach.    But not a great one.

Indiana fans were tired of anyone who was not Bob Knight.  You also have to take into account the program he inherited at MU (14-15, Krunti Hester as the only recruit) and what he inherited at Indiana (1 returning player who has actually scored in a game, a walk-on, extremely limited off-campus recruiting due to probation) when taking into account his records.  And while he lost in the Sweet 16, each time that team went on to the Final Four (one to the finals, one won it all).

3 outright conference titles, 4 Sweet 16's, one Final Four, no NCAA visits to campus. I'll take that over Buzz or KO.  Buzz inherited a BMW X5 at MU, Crean inherited a Ford Escort.

[wadesworld]

Hmmm, you forgot the guy who got us closer to the "promised land" than any other coach since Al and didn't have the resources that Buzz had. A coach who also rebuilt a devastated Indiana program and got them to multiple Sweet 16's and two outright Big Ten titles. Buzz started much further ahead at Va Tech than TC did at Indiana and didn't have the same level of success (unless you ask him). TC would have been the guy.

And let's not forget this quote regarding the BE invite:  Big East commissioner Mike Tranghese cited his friendship with Crean as contributing to the invitation, saying, "That, to me, was one of the great appeals, to get Tommy as well as Marquette into the league."

Thanks Dwyane.

[dgies9156]

Hmmm, you forgot the guy who got us closer to the "promised land" than any other coach since Al and didn't have the resources that Buzz had. A coach who also rebuilt a devastated Indiana program and got them to multiple Sweet 16's and two outright Big Ten titles. Buzz started much further ahead at Va Tech than TC did at Indiana and didn't have the same level of success (unless you ask him). TC would have been the guy.

Crean wasn't consistent. The Cowboy was.

O'Neill had us headed for greatness, had he held his ego and his mouth in check. Maybe he could have caught lightening in a bottle, like the Tanned One did. Maybe not. But I really believe he turned us back in the direction we needed to go.

No O'Neill. We're Loyola of Chicago forever and we're playing UWM twice a year.

[Billy Hoyle]

Thanks Dwyane.

who got us Dwyane, especially when the administration was blocking it?

[wadesworld]

who got us Dwyane, especially when the administration was blocking it?

Thanks power conference academic rules.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Indiana fans were tired of anyone who was not Bob Knight.  You also have to take into account the program he inherited at MU (14-15, Krunti Hester as the only recruit) and what he inherited at Indiana (1 returning player who has actually scored in a game, a walk-on, extremely limited off-campus recruiting due to probation) when taking into account his records.  And while he lost in the Sweet 16, each time that team went on to the Final Four (one to the finals, one won it all).

3 outright conference titles, 4 Sweet 16's, one Final Four, no NCAA visits to campus. I'll take that over Buzz or KO.  Buzz inherited a BMW X5 at MU, Crean inherited a Ford Escort.

Crean's a good A to B guy.  He can come in, get some recruits and cheerlead the program to the next level.  He's not a great Xs and Os guy and has too many "off years" recruiting wise so he ends up with some seasons that look like crap.

Buzz is a better all around coach IMO.  He can recruit (though I think he focuses too much on "switchables" type), and a better Xs and Os guy than Crean.  He had some down years as well, but besides his last year, his teams played hard. 

I think he gets A&M a lot further in the SEC than Crean gets Georgia.