Dwyane Wade - ESPN's Homecoming

[GGGG]

Are you under the impression that people care about Kansas outside of Kansas?  Kentucky?

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

wow when have i ever called crean douche for using a limo??  never look it up.  terrible comparison there buddy.  Buzz ripping the UNO program would be the apt compariosn,  maybe i am wrong but i would never see buzz doing that.  crean has the ass in class covered, he falls short with the C and L

Fine.

When have I ever said Tom Crean was perfect, or even "better" than buzz williams?

I've never said that.

I've never said Crean didn't come off as a douche sometimes. This is one of those times.

What I did say was that a lot of you guys look for every little thing to blast him on, and he's the second best coach in MU history. I'm glad I was a season ticket holder under TC instead of a lot of the previous coaches.

Is that fair enough?

Do I HAVE to hate the guy?

[romey]

I grew up a Warrior fan - my dad had season tickets from 1971 until the mid 80's.  I am an alum and attended all home games through graduation.  I moved out of state after graduation.  The program fell off the map on a national level around the tie I left (1983).  It was nearly impossible to follow them at that time.  In spite of all the "negatives" that came with Crean's regime, perhaps one of the best things he did for my alma mater, was put them back on the national map (thank you D Wade).  I appreciate that more than anything.  Frankly, until I got on this blog a few years ago, I had no idea of the "hatred" some seem to have for him

[GOO]

I had heard from a very trusted source that Indiana (I think it was Bobby K at the time) was recruiting Wade during the fall of his senior season after he had committed to MU (it may have even been in the winter after he had signed with MU, I'm not entirely sure on the exact timing, I just know if happended after Wade committed to MU).  So, Wade had the chance to go to Indiana and declined, in favor of MU.  I'm sure Wade is happy with how that choice turned out.

[Archie]

I'm no Crean defender, by any means, but he was obviously fooling around with that comment.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Yea, and when Buzz used a limo, you had no comment. Don't going throwing rocks, partner.

Listen, Crean can be pretty douchy sometimes. No doubt about it. I'll add his comment to the douche list that also includes a crappy haircut, stupid windbreakers in Hawaii and ties that are too long.

Is that enough for you?

Hayward, you're back on ignore so I only saw your comments because 2002 quoted you.   I've been "silent" because I didn't see this post, been to busy mostly with other things.

So let me get this straight what everyone is all pissed off about, because perhaps I didn't understand his comments correctly.

Wade wanted to play at a top basketball school like Illinois, Indiana, etc....but he couldn't because he didn't have the grades.  This is a fact as Wade says the very same thing in several interviews and in one of the books written about him and MU.

Because his offers were down to Illinois State and Marquette, everyone is upset because he dared to dream to play at a school that had more going for it at the time?  Remember, MU had the old gym, was in CUSA, coming off a LOSING record, etc.

Or are people upset because Crean stated the truth about what Wade wanted and as such, it was a dig on MU...a dig on Wade?  I think some of you need to read the two books out there on Wade and his very own comments which are very much in line with what Crean said.   Sure, Crean didn't have to say them...sure he can be a complete jerk sometimes, but that doesn't make him wrong.  If Wade thought Crean was the douche that so many here think he is, why is he still doing so much for Crean to help him?  Seriously, answer that question.  Wade doesn't need Crean, but he sure goes to bat for him an awful lot.  Something tells me Wade and Crean know more about each other and their relationship than ANYONE on this board.

Wade was good enough to play just about anywhere out of high school, but he couldn't because of academics.  MU and a few others took a chance offering and he went to MU.  Doesn't mean he hated that choice, in fact it was wonderful for him and us that it worked out the way it did, but that doesn't mean his dream was to go to MU.  Should Crean have said it? I  don't know....I guess the bigger question is why did Wade basically say the same thing about himself, that he wanted to play at a top tier school but because he didn't have the academics in line, he couldn't.

Meanwhile, Crean is at IU and Buzz is at MU.....oh, and they both use Limos for recruiting.  

[mugrad99]

It looks to me like he was using Wade's big homecoming as a vehicle to sell Indiana. Hypocritical on our part to take Crean to task? Maybe. He still comes off like a d-bag.

Believe me, right now, he is all sizzle, no steak at Indiana. His leash is getting shorter. Another bad year with no real improvement, and the big donors will be making some noise.

[rocky_warrior]

Believe me, right now, he is all sizzle, no steak at Indiana. His leash is getting shorter. Another bad year with no real improvement, and the big donors will be making some noise.

I usually stay quiet on the TC matters, but it has never ceased to amaze me how much slack he got for his first year at IU.  He became coach of one of the "Top" programs in the country on April 1, 2008.  Had all spring, summer, and fall to sort out his roster, and still only managed to beat 5 div 1 opponents for #216 in the RPI.

I know IU fans can legitimately claim a "rebuilding" year, but if I hired a contractor to rebuild my house, and he came in with results that poor, I'd find a new contractor immediately.

Now he's got what, 3 (or more?) members of last years team already off the squad, so I suppose this year is rebuilding too.  Not gonna' cut it at IU unless he can magically find Wade-part-2 for his 3rd year.

Maybe I'm underestimating the guy though, time will tell.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I usually stay quiet on the TC matters, but it has never ceased to amaze me how much slack he got for his first year at IU.  He became coach of one of the "Top" programs in the country on April 1, 2008.  Had all spring, summer, and fall to sort out his roster, and still only managed to beat 5 div 1 opponents for #216 in the RPI.

I know IU fans can legitimately claim a "rebuilding" year, but if I hired a contractor to rebuild my house, and he came in with results that poor, I'd find a new contractor immediately.

Now he's got what, 3 (or more?) members of last years team already off the squad, so I suppose this year is rebuilding too.  Not gonna' cut it at IU unless he can magically find Wade-part-2 for his 3rd year.

Maybe I'm underestimating the guy though, time will tell.

He's saying and doing all of the right things, so I think he's got a longer leash than most.

But, at IU, it's about winning, and winning big.

He's got another year or 2, and then he's not only going to have to be competing for a Big Ten title, but also for a high seed and advancement in the tournament.

Expectations are probably still pretty low, but they will ramp up in a hurry, and will ramp up even faster if/when they start taking steps forward.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

He still comes off like a d-bag.

He doesn't "come off" like a douche bag...he IS A DOUCHE BAG! I've been telling you guys this for many, many years!

[MR.HAYWARD]

wow chicos what a tool you are...you have me on ignore but are still compelled to read my posts= tool.

" Hayward, you're back on ignore so I only saw your comments because 2002 quoted you.   I've been "silent" because I didn't see this post, been to busy mostly with other things."

Gee, thanks for the explanation of why you are such a tool.

" Sure, Crean didn't have to say them...sure he can be a complete jerk sometimes, but that doesn't make him wrong."

Geez chicos do you actually think people think Crean was a tool like you becuase he was saying something wrong?  Telling the truth or lying has nothing to do with it.  Being an f'ing tool bag has everything to do with it.   

are you completely whacked out or do you simply like to type.  The string has people saying he is a loser for what he said and then you come out with that?  Dude you are f'd up.

so if someoen wnt up to mother Theresa and called her an ugly old shriveled up lady your comment would be "that does not make him wrong"   


loser

[Lennys Tap]

Hayward, you're back on ignore so I only saw your comments because 2002 quoted you.   I've been "silent" because I didn't see this post, been to busy mostly with other things.

So let me get this straight what everyone is all pissed off about, because perhaps I didn't understand his comments correctly.

Wade wanted to play at a top basketball school like Illinois, Indiana, etc....but he couldn't because he didn't have the grades.  This is a fact as Wade says the very same thing in several interviews and in one of the books written about him and MU.

Because his offers were down to Illinois State and Marquette, everyone is upset because he dared to dream to play at a school that had more going for it at the time?  Remember, MU had the old gym, was in CUSA, coming off a LOSING record, etc.

Or are people upset because Crean stated the truth about what Wade wanted and as such, it was a dig on MU...a dig on Wade?  I think some of you need to read the two books out there on Wade and his very own comments which are very much in line with what Crean said.   Sure, Crean didn't have to say them...sure he can be a complete jerk sometimes, but that doesn't make him wrong.  If Wade thought Crean was the douche that so many here think he is, why is he still doing so much for Crean to help him?  Seriously, answer that question.  Wade doesn't need Crean, but he sure goes to bat for him an awful lot.  Something tells me Wade and Crean know more about each other and their relationship than ANYONE on this board.

Wade was good enough to play just about anywhere out of high school, but he couldn't because of academics.  MU and a few others took a chance offering and he went to MU.  Doesn't mean he hated that choice, in fact it was wonderful for him and us that it worked out the way it did, but that doesn't mean his dream was to go to MU.  Should Crean have said it? I  don't know....I guess the bigger question is why did Wade basically say the same thing about himself, that he wanted to play at a top tier school but because he didn't have the academics in line, he couldn't.

Meanwhile, Crean is at IU and Buzz is at MU.....oh, and they both use Limos for recruiting.  

So MU got Wade (the "sine qua non" of the TC era) because nobody else (at least nobody else with a profile higher than the Illinois State Redbirds) would have him. That sounds like something even Bob Dukiet could have handled. All TC had to do was convince Fr. Wild to lower MU's admission standards to a place never seen before or since. I can only imagine your outrage!

[ChicosBailBonds]

It looks to me like he was using Wade's big homecoming as a vehicle to sell Indiana. Hypocritical on our part to take Crean to task? Maybe. He still comes off like a d-bag.

Believe me, right now, he is all sizzle, no steak at Indiana. His leash is getting shorter. Another bad year with no real improvement, and the big donors will be making some noise.

The "big donors" at IU are all bark and little bite on this one, in my opinion.  IU has had so many issues with athletics in the last 5-10 years....football coach dying, firing DiNardo and Cameron and thus paying them off, Kelvin Sampson and Mike Davis fiascos, operating in the red when the department was known for years to operate in the black.  When I left there we were running $2.3 million in the black per year and the Varsity Club was something like $3.8 million in reserve funds and eventually getting to close to $8 million in reserves. Fast forward a few years, the Varsity Club had burned through almost all the reserve funds as of two or three years ago, I don't know if they're still struggling but they had gone through almost all of it despite taking in over $11 million per year in gifts....the department, in general, had been in the red for 5 years running.

The donors can bark all they want, Crean isn't going anywhere for quite some time unless Mark Cuban is going to donate 9 figures which he isn't going to do.  Or maybe the Glaubingers and Mauers can pony up some more, but I don't see it.

He's coached one season so far and they have put far too much money and resources into him to not give him MANY more years to come. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

So MU got Wade (the "sine qua non" of the TC era) because nobody else (at least nobody else with a profile higher than the Illinois State Redbirds) would have him. That sounds like something even Bob Dukiet could have handled. All TC had to do was convince Fr. Wild to lower MU's admission standards to a place never seen before or since. I can only imagine your outrage!

T.H., where do you think the markets are going?  I keep meaning to ask you if there is going to be a big pullback or will the bulls continue to dominate?

TC took a risk and it paid off in spades.  Buzz has taken some risks with JUCOs, we'll see if he has the same luck.  As I've said several times here, I'm not against JUCOs but there is a risk reward....character has to be a major part of the computation.  So my outrage would be completely based on what kind of shortcut we are taking and why.

I'd say TC nailed that risk....we'll see if Buzz does with his....hopefully he does.  Incidentally, TC failed on many risks, as well, but he hit it out of the park on this one and it put MU back on the map....some seem really pissed off about that for some reason, I'll never understand why....well we did lose to KU by a lot.

Bob Dukiet....not nice to talk of the dead that way....but more importantly, if it was so easy, as you describe because even Bob Dukiet could do it, why did no one else at MU in the head coaching position bring in talent even REMOTELY close to Wade in the last, oh, 25 years?  Seeing how easy it was and all.   


I encourage you to read Wade's own story and what his prospects were, why he chose MU, what role TC played in it....I'd encourage Hayward to read Wade's own words as well, but it might make his head explode.    There are several sources, including Keith Langlois' article in the Oakland Press in 2005 as well as several books written about Wade that answer it quite well.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I usually stay quiet on the TC matters, but it has never ceased to amaze me how much slack he got for his first year at IU.  He became coach of one of the "Top" programs in the country on April 1, 2008.  Had all spring, summer, and fall to sort out his roster, and still only managed to beat 5 div 1 opponents for #216 in the RPI.

I know IU fans can legitimately claim a "rebuilding" year, but if I hired a contractor to rebuild my house, and he came in with results that poor, I'd find a new contractor immediately.

Now he's got what, 3 (or more?) members of last years team already off the squad, so I suppose this year is rebuilding too.  Not gonna' cut it at IU unless he can magically find Wade-part-2 for his 3rd year.

Maybe I'm underestimating the guy though, time will tell.

Bad analogy....you wouldn't hire a contractor to do that, you would hire a demolition crew first to destroy the house and then rebuild it...that's how bad the program was.   Just about every expert in America predicted them for dead last and that's where they finished.  What "slack" did he get when you return that God awful of a team? 

He'll get a pass this year as well, starting next season is when they will start to look for some results that matter, but most of the IU faithful know that this upcoming season is going to be another long one, probably an 8th place finish or worse....the Big Ten will be the number 1 conference in the country this coming season.  The year after, they should be a top 5 Big Ten team and beyond that, who knows.

Fred Glass and McRobbie are all that matter on this, neither of them are remotely concerned at this point after one year and a team that literally would have struggled in the MEAC with the talent level they had.

[MR.HAYWARD]

Chicos apparently you dont get the picture....................................................no one gives a crap what your opinion is!

[romey]

Hayward, what makes you think anyone cares what your opinion is?

[rocky_warrior]

Just about every expert in America predicted them for dead last and that's where they finished.  What "slack" did he get when you return that God awful of a team? 

Dislike my analogy all you want, but by your terms, if the jury is still out on Buzz, then the same applies (even more-so I'd say) for Crean @ IU.

Dead last in the B10 wasn't the problem.  Of course, they could have won 3 more B10 games and still been dead last. 

No, to me the slack comes in the fact that he wasn't able to get the team together to beat mighty Lipscomb.  Wow, that would have been quite the upset, and one for the IU record books. 

I'm willing to admit Crean can still prove me wrong, but I don't think he'll make it past 4 years at IU.  Oh well, sorry for the OT...

[ChicosBailBonds]

Dislike my analogy all you want, but by your terms, if the jury is still out on Buzz, then the same applies (even more-so I'd say) for Crean @ IU.

Dead last in the B10 wasn't the problem.  Of course, they could have won 3 more B10 games and still been dead last.  

No, to me the slack comes in the fact that he wasn't able to get the team together to beat mighty Lipscomb.  Wow, that would have been quite the upset, and one for the IU record books.  

I'm willing to admit Crean can still prove me wrong, but I don't think he'll make it past 4 years at IU.  Oh well, sorry for the OT...

Would you like to put a wager on the 4 years?  


The difference between Crean and Buzz is the proven past.  Crean took a program with no facilities, a so-so conference, sporadic results over the last 20 years and turned them into a perennial top 25 team, top 5 Big East team, etc, etc.  So he's going to get a huge benefit of the doubt because he's been there...done that.  He also did it entirely on his own in terms of not inheriting any recruiting class of note (Krunti Hester), inheriting a losing program, etc, etc.

Buzz hasn't done it yet on his own so he still has to prove he can.  Most of us think he can do it.  He certainly has the personality for it, certainly has the work ethic and has the basketball i.q.  We'll all know for sure in a few years, just as none of us knew for sure about Crean for a number of years.

Yes, losing to Lipscomb is bad....just as losing to Maine was bad for MU.  Or losing to North Dakota State.  IU had something like 2 points returning to their team last year and less than a rebound...something to that extent.  A very very poorly talented team in total disarray.  They'll make improvements this year and probably a pretty big jump next year.


But I'd love to take that wager if you're up for it.

[ChicosBailBonds]

The "experts" haven't weighed in yet, but Big Ten wonk has.

http://www.bigtengeeks.com/2009/10/indiana-preview-08-09-overall-record-6.html


and review of last year...."No sane person expected Indiana to do anything on the court last season"


http://www.bigtengeeks.com/2009/10/indiana-recap-in-multitude-of-ways-2008.html

[MR.HAYWARD]

anyone want to wager Crean will be the most hated coach by opposing fans in the Big Ten in 4 years?

I dont think it took him that long at MU.

and dont give me that winning Crap.  There is respect and there is vitriolic hatred...Crean received the latter from the opposing fanbases...for a reason

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Chicos apparently you dont get the picture....................................................no one gives a crap what your opinion is!

Who cares whether it was actually shown on the special or ended up on the cutting room floor?

the fact is he said it, if he was joking it just shows what tool bag he is becuase...possibly Creans first attempt at humor i have ever witnessed and par for the course he underperforms.

amazing the Mu 84, 2002alum and chicos are all of a sudden strangely silent. joanie come rushing to tommys aid.

Dude, you can't call the guy out for not posting, and then get mad when he posts in this thread. That's absurd, even for you.

Hayward, I promise you that I will never mention TC or Chico's again if you promise the same. You hate them both, and I'm tired of hearing about them.

Who do you think can last longer?

I bet I can. I'll bet anything that I can. 

[MUDPT]

If Indiana wants to look at how things should run, they should look up I-65 where Purdue was 2nd? place and a 6 seed in the NCAAs playing 89%? of their minutes with first or second year players in '07-'08.  Is that the standard that IU should be set to?

I'm too lazy to look up the numbers.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Dude, you can't call the guy out for not posting, and then get mad when he posts in this thread. That's absurd, even for you.

Hayward, I promise you that I will never mention TC or Chico's again if you promise the same. You hate them both, and I'm tired of hearing about them.

Who do you think can last longer?

I bet I can. I'll bet anything that I can. 

Classic...he blasts us for not commenting and then when we comment he blasts us for commenting.  I'm thinking he was a bed wetter well into his teens.

[ChicosBailBonds]

If Indiana wants to look at how things should run, they should look up I-65 where Purdue was 2nd? place and a 6 seed in the NCAAs playing 89%? of their minutes with first or second year players in '07-'08.  Is that the standard that IU should be set to?

I'm too lazy to look up the numbers.

Purdue is doing very well right now, though it wasn't that long ago...four years ago...when they were 7-21 and finished 3-13 in the Big Ten...last place.  This was done while not coming off a major scandal either like IU has to do.  Three years ago, they were 9-19 and also 3-13 in the Big Ten...last place again

Yet they survived just fine.  

Crean will do the same for IU, it's just a matter of time.  Like Purdue, IU will have another bad year this season, but by year 3 they will be at least a NIT team and possibly a NCAA team.