X thoughts

[MerrittsMustache]

All I'll say to the kids who skipped: You're only there for 4 years, make the most of it.  In 3 years you might be slumming it for Deloitte in a Courtyard by Marriott in Huntsville, AL wishing like hell you and some buddies could spend 2 hours together at the BC.

This made me laugh.

[willie warrior]

We have some nice pieces but we're not there yet. 
Without a floor spacer like Carlino, you need a creator at PG and I think we can all agree at least that Derrick is not that. 
Duane and JJJ can attack but are not finishers yet (I feel very good that they both will be before they are done with college BB).  When Derrick sat last night we were even more of a mess on offense. 
Luke has a deft touch and a few post moves, but is not nearly strong enough to play the type of game he wants to play. 
Sandy had a bad night, but will morph into a very useful player (think Juan Anderson with an offensive game). 
Taylor didn't do much yesterday, but I still like him as a rebounder.  When he gets his hands on the ball he seems to always corral it.

 
Juan is hopeless on offense, but for me at least, he is impossible not to like because he plays his heart out always, and always defends.

Just an incomplete team.  We will be better next year, but we need a true ready to go PG and a new sniper.

Derrick sat about 2 minutes until the last garbage minutes. If you are going to call those two minutes a mess, fine. We have had more messes for longer periods of time when Derrick has been in there, so that analogy of yours was just demolished!!!!!

[CTWarrior]

Derrick sat about 2 minutes until the last garbage minutes. If you are going to call those two minutes a mess, fine. We have had more messes for longer periods of time when Derrick has been in there, so that analogy of yours was just demolished!!!!!

In those two minutes our offense consisted of an early in the shot clock missed 3 pointer by Duane Wilson and two turnovers leading to layups (one was blocked by Anderson and turned into a wide open three point shot).  We didn't manage to even to run a play.  Wojo actually had to call time out to get him back in.  We were outscored 5-0 in those two minutes which works out to 100-0 for 40, so I don't see how my analogy (which of course wasn't an analogy - not sure you know what that word means) was demolished.

I certainly agree with those who think Derrick Wilson is not an adequate starting PG for a good D-I team, but outside of Carlino we have no one else.

[GGGG]

In those two minutes our offense consisted of an early in the shot clock missed 3 pointer by Duane Wilson and two turnovers leading to layups (one was blocked by Anderson and turned into a wide open three point shot).  We didn't manage to even to run a play.  Wojo actually had to call time out to get him back in.  We were outscored 5-0 in those two minutes which works out to 100-0 for 40, so I don't see how my analogy (which of course wasn't an analogy - not sure you know what that word means) was demolished.

I certainly agree with those who think Derrick Wilson is not an adequate starting PG for a good D-I team, but outside of Carlino we have no one else.

As with last year, Derrick is the best of really poor options.

[GooooMarquette]

All I'll say to the kids who skipped: You're only there for 4 years, make the most of it.  In 3 years you might be slumming it for Deloitte in a Courtyard by Marriott in Huntsville, AL wishing like hell you and some buddies could spend 2 hours together at the BC.

Yep.  Good seasons or bad, students have a limited opportunity to attend games with their school friends and once the years are gone, they're gone....

Creighton is as bad as us this year, and their students still find time for the games.

[willie warrior]

In those two minutes our offense consisted of an early in the shot clock missed 3 pointer by Duane Wilson and two turnovers leading to layups (one was blocked by Anderson and turned into a wide open three point shot).  We didn't manage to even to run a play.  Wojo actually had to call time out to get him back in.  We were outscored 5-0 in those two minutes which works out to 100-0 for 40, so I don't see how my analogy (which of course wasn't an analogy - not sure you know what that word means) was demolished.

I certainly agree with those who think Derrick Wilson is not an adequate starting PG for a good D-I team, but outside of Carlino we have no one else.

OK, you judge it by one snap shot of two minutes. I have seen far longer periods with Derrick at the controls that were worse. So have you. But keep that narrative if you like. I guess you also like to start with insults--hope that makes you feel very superior--because you aren't. Not sure you know what superior means.
BTW, an analogy is a comparison of two things, usually similar. You compared MU offense while Derrick sat for two minutes to him running the offense. Not sure you know what it means either. But keep up with the psudo insults. Maybe one day you will be in Don Rickles' league.

[GGGG]

This would be an analogy:

"The offense under Derrick Wilson runs like a broken down mule."

or

"The offense under Duane Wilson runs like a more youthful mule who falls down a lot."

[GooooMarquette]

This would be an analogy:

"The offense under Derrick Wilson runs like a broken down mule."

or

"The offense under Duane Wilson runs like a more youthful mule who falls down a lot."

Made me laugh.

[The Lens]

For the love of everything holy, can we please stop ragging on Derrick.  He is who he is.  He seems to be a great kid, he hustles, he represents the University well and two coaches really like his leadership.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

As with last year, Derrick is the best of really poor options.

Indeed, no one thinks Derrick is the answer, he's simply all we've got.  Carlino frequently has trouble getting the ball over half-court, and nothing we've seen from Duane indicates he is the answer at PG either this year or next.  Trying to force Duane into the role would be a huge mistake, IMO, as he's shown he is very dangerous, albeit with freshman inconsistency, as the 2.

[onepost]

Yep.  Good seasons or bad, students have a limited opportunity to attend games with their school friends and once the years are gone, they're gone....

Creighton is as bad as us this year, and their students still find time for the games.

I am from Omaha so I am as familiar with Jays games as it gets.
While I agree that in general, Creighton fans are about as good as it gets in terms of attendance and support, comparing our student section with Creighton's is foolish.  The Creighton student section takes up 1/2 of one section (maybe a couple hundred seats only), right behind the basket.  Whereas Marquette's student section is massive (roughly 6 full sections in the lower bowl and 8 or so in the upper bowl).  You're comparing a couple hundred vs. a couple-to-a-few thousand available seats.

I think that's where a lot of the complaining comes from in regards to our attendance.  For being a smaller, private school, the Bradley Center gives Marquette and its students a crap ton of tickets for games.  So even though a good number of students actually showed up in the lower bowl, it looks pathetic because there are so many available seats in the lower and upper bowls.  We suck this year, I'm shocked there were even that many students there.

[NersEllenson]

In those two minutes our offense consisted of an early in the shot clock missed 3 pointer by Duane Wilson and two turnovers leading to layups (one was blocked by Anderson and turned into a wide open three point shot).  We didn't manage to even to run a play.  Wojo actually had to call time out to get him back in.  We were outscored 5-0 in those two minutes which works out to 100-0 for 40, so I don't see how my analogy (which of course wasn't an analogy - not sure you know what that word means) was demolished.

I certainly agree with those who think Derrick Wilson is not an adequate starting PG for a good D-I team, but outside of Carlino we have no one else.

I can agree with the first paragraph and posted something similar.  However, I do think it is a little premature to jump to the conclusion that Duane Wilson is incapable of playing the PG position due to a bad 1:30 stretch last night.  I've seen Derrick throw away inbounds passes, take 5 second counts on inbounds plays etc. 

As with all young players, you have to deal with their growing pains.  They shouldn't be expected to be as trusty as the vets, BUT, when the vet is SO limited and challenged and the understudy is clearly talented and skilled - in my vote - particularly once a season is lost you make the move to get the rookie/youngster some real playing time.

[connie]

I can agree with the first paragraph and posted something similar.  However, I do think it is a little premature to jump to the conclusion that Duane Wilson is incapable of playing the PG position due to a bad 1:30 stretch last night.  I've seen Derrick throw away inbounds passes, take 5 second counts on inbounds plays etc. 

As with all young players, you have to deal with their growing pains.  They shouldn't be expected to be as trusty as the vets, BUT, when the vet is SO limited and challenged and the understudy is clearly talented and skilled - in my vote - particularly once a season is lost you make the move to get the rookie/youngster some real playing time.

[/b]You see!  You CAN do it. This is a reasonable and persuasive point.  It is by far the strongest argument you can make to advance your agenda, and I would venture to guess that most on this board could get behind, or at least respect, this thinking.   Congrats!

[dgies9156]

Students, if taking the traditional course, are only there for 4 years and not every student comes in a die hard college basketball fan. Two of the classes currently at Marquette, Freshman and Sophomore have never experienced a winning team, the Juniors and Seniors got spoiled with a Sweet Sixteen and an Elite Eight and were expecting more last year but with the departure of Blue the team did not live up to expectations.

When I was there, let's just say the students fought over tickets. You couldn't find one to save your life.

Of course, that was 1974 to 1978.

[JakeBarnes]

When I was there, let's just say the students fought over tickets. You couldn't find one to save your life.

Of course, that was 1974 to 1978.

Ahhh... so what you're saying is context is actually important when talking about the popularity of a sports team and it's attendance?

[CTWarrior]

As with all young players, you have to deal with their growing pains.  They shouldn't be expected to be as trusty as the vets, BUT, when the vet is SO limited and challenged and the understudy is clearly talented and skilled - in my vote - particularly once a season is lost you make the move to get the rookie/youngster some real playing time.

I understand this point of view and can get behind it.  But when you can't even get into the offense there may be confidence issues for the young players and as a coach its near impossible to let yourself allow it to continue.  When Carlino comes back I wouldn't have a problem with more Duane at PG.  Last night was not ideal conditions for him to handle the point (no other perimeter options, defense sagging to stop interior passing lanes) and at this point in his development I only would want him at the point under best possible conditions.

[NersEllenson]

[/b]You see!  You CAN do it. This is a reasonable and persuasive point.  It is by far the strongest argument you can make to advance your agenda, and I would venture to guess that most on this board could get behind, or at least respect, this thinking.   Congrats!

Nice Connie.  And btw - I don't mind when strongly disagree with my opinions...or when others do for that matter.  It generates discussion and a vibrant board.

And as for this philosophy of giving the talented youngsters a chance to get valuable experience - I advocated for it hard last season by late January, as it was evident if nothing changed we weren't going anywhere anyway.  Yet there was a good chunk of my usual opposition here who felt it was a foolish idea.  Oh well.

Hopefully Wojo doesn't grind us down the stretch without trying a different approach and getting more experience for our future.

[connie]

Nice Connie.  And btw - I don't mind when strongly disagree with my opinions...or when others do for that matter.  It generates discussion and a vibrant board.

And as for this philosophy of giving the talented youngsters a chance to get valuable experience - I advocated for it hard last season by late January, as it was evident if nothing changed we weren't going anywhere anyway.  Yet there was a good chunk of my usual opposition here who felt it was a foolish idea.  Oh well.

Hopefully Wojo doesn't grind us down the stretch without trying a different approach and getting more experience for our future.

Last year there was still hope for some type of post season until later in the season, so I understand the hesitation that was expressed at the time about pitching the whole year and going young. It actually worked out to be the worst possible scenario as we ended up getting neither more playing time for the younger players nor any post season, and that just plain su@%ed.  I hope that the trial of Duane at the point, even for a bit, was a sign that Wojo is going to continue to try mixing things up.   

[wadesworld]

You don't get a higher pick for better players by losing more in college basketball like you do in the NBA.  You are never punished for winning in college basketball.  You try to win every single game you can, regardless of how lost your season is.  Players develop in the off season while honing their skills.  The 40 minutes of playing time each game doesn't develop a player.  Sure it gives them game experience, gets them used to playing in front of thousands of eyeballs in a giant arena, and that helps.  But that's what the cupcakes are for to start the season.  Not to mention, every single player when you have 8 guys gets enough minutes, and enough minutes where their play may determine the outcome of the game, to earn this experience.  15 minutes per game is plenty for a guy like Cohen, and there is no need to sit Juan Anderson minutes he earned just so Cohen has more minutes by next season.

Look at Frank Kaminsky.  He went from 4.2 ppg, 1.8 rpg, and 0.8 apg on 43.9% shooting from the floor and 31.1% from 3 point range in 10.3 mpg as a sophomore to 13.9 ppg, 6.3 rpg, and 1.3 apg on 52.8% from the floor and 37.8% from 3 point range as a junior in 27.2 mpg.  Frank did not develop his game based on the 10 mpg he got as a sophomore.  He spent time in the gym developing his game in the offseason.  Had he got 4 mpg as a sophomore instead of the 10 mpg his production as a junior wouldn't have dropped to 8 ppg, 3 rpg, and 0.5 apg, and if he got 20 mpg as a sophomore he wouldn't have gone for 20, 10, and 5 as a junior.  Players develop in the practice gym, not in 40 minutes twice a week for 4-5 months.

[GGGG]

Not to mention that EVERYONE is playing plenty of minutes right now.  Probably too many.

[CTWarrior]

I hope that the trial of Duane at the point, even for a bit, was a sign that Wojo is going to continue to try mixing things up.    

I think the trial of Duane at the point was just to give Derrick a blow.  I don't think it indicates that Wojo is going to try it more in the future (the fact that he ended the experiment immediately after a couple of messy possessions in a game that was pretty much lost indicates that he isn't)  But I'm on board with the attempt once Carlino gets back to help share the load and provide some floor spacing.

[wadesworld]

Not to mention that EVERYONE is playing plenty of minutes right now.  Probably too many.

Exactly.

And JJJ isn't going to become a sharpshooter by getting an extra 10 mpg.  Hopefully this offseason he can remake his jumper, as it is poor form and doesn't work.  I'm all for leaving a poor mechanic shot go...if it works.  It's not working for JJJ.  He's not learning to shoot in 10 extra mpg.

Same with Luke.  He's not going to learn how to make quick, decisive decisions by getting an extra 5 mpg in games.  He's going to learn that in the offseason with his coaches in the practice gym.

Duane isn't going to bulk up by getting 8 mpg more.  He's going to get that by hitting the weight room in the offseason.

Sandy's not going to learn how to stay in front of his defender with his feet and chest rather than his hands by getting 10 mpg more.  He's going to learn that in the practice gym.

Etc., etc., etc.

[GGGG]

Exactly.

And JJJ isn't going to become a sharpshooter by getting an extra 10 mpg.  Hopefully this offseason he can remake his jumper, as it is poor form and doesn't work.  I'm all for leaving a poor mechanic shot go...if it works.  It's not working for JJJ.  He's not learning to shoot in 10 extra mpg.

I hope JJJ really takes the off-season workouts to heart this summer.  Hopefully his regression from deep means that he realizes that he needs quite a bit of improvement in that regard.

[connie]

You don't get a higher pick for better players by losing more in college basketball like you do in the NBA.  You are never punished for winning in college basketball.  You try to win every single game you can, regardless of how lost your season is.  Players develop in the off season while honing their skills.  The 40 minutes of playing time each game doesn't develop a player.  Sure it gives them game experience, gets them used to playing in front of thousands of eyeballs in a giant arena, and that helps.  But that's what the cupcakes are for to start the season.  Not to mention, every single player when you have 8 guys gets enough minutes, and enough minutes where their play may determine the outcome of the game, to earn this experience.  15 minutes per game is plenty for a guy like Cohen, and there is no need to sit Juan Anderson minutes he earned just so Cohen has more minutes by next season.

Look at Frank Kaminsky.  He went from 4.2 ppg, 1.8 rpg, and 0.8 apg on 43.9% shooting from the floor and 31.1% from 3 point range in 10.3 mpg as a sophomore to 13.9 ppg, 6.3 rpg, and 1.3 apg on 52.8% from the floor and 37.8% from 3 point range as a junior in 27.2 mpg.  Frank did not develop his game based on the 10 mpg he got as a sophomore.  He spent time in the gym developing his game in the offseason.  Had he got 4 mpg as a sophomore instead of the 10 mpg his production as a junior wouldn't have dropped to 8 ppg, 3 rpg, and 0.5 apg, and if he got 20 mpg as a sophomore he wouldn't have gone for 20, 10, and 5 as a junior.  Players develop in the practice gym, not in 40 minutes twice a week for 4-5 months.

I see it more akin to a baseball team in late September that is out of any playoff consideration.  I agree with our limited depth that there should be plenty of minutes for everyone.  I also appreciate, but am not so beholden to the idea that you earn your minutes as a concept, but if Juan or Derrick have to sit a few minutes to try some new things, and there is no other reason (like some type of discipline) preventing those minutes from being spread around, I'm ok with that.  I agree practice is important, but think that real conference game experience is important as well.  At the end of the day I don't think Juan or Derrick are going to be any better for us next year, and I can accept some experimentation at this point of a lost season with the hope that it will pay dividends next season.

[MerrittsMustache]

I think the trial of Duane at the point was just to give Derrick a blow.  I don't think it indicates that Wojo is going to try it more in the future (the fact that he ended the experiment immediately after a couple of messy possessions in a game that was pretty much lost indicates that he isn't)  But I'm on board with the attempt once Carlino gets back to help share the load and provide some floor spacing.

Duane isn't a PG, especially not at this point in his career. He may be a small quick guard, but he's really not a PG.

In case people forgot, Derrick came off the bench in 5 of the team's first 8 games (including OSU and Wisconsin) and he only played 15 and 19 minutes in the first 2 games. It's reasonable to believe that Wojo was planning to have Carlino run the point along side JJJ with Derrick and Duane coming off the bench. Once it became obvious that two "volume scorers" who were below average defensively and weren't greta ball-handlers couldn't share the court for a bulk of the minutes, Wojo adjusted and after 3 games Duane replaced Sandy in the starting line-up (presumably as another ballhandler) and not long after that, Derrick was starting in place of JJJ and that's where Derrick has been since then. Wojo experimented with different PGs early in the season but it still came back to Derrick being the best of the bunch.