EV's

[jesmu84]

Resale values are very high…so, lots of people.

I think that's pretty make/model/age dependent.

Regardless, there is nothing "bad" about buying a used EV/battery

[Lennys Tap]

I think that's pretty make/model/age dependent.

Regardless, there is nothing "bad" about buying a used EV/battery

No, apparently they’re a steal. Buying a new one is the dumb move.

[Pakuni]

And tend to make poor investments.

Says who?
If being first with the new iPhone or Tesla brings a person joy, and is something they can afford, who's to say it's a poor investment?
If you want to buy a Honda Accord because it'll have great resale value in eight years, that's cool. But not everyone has to value the same things.

[Lennys Tap]

Says who?
If being first with the new iPhone or Tesla brings a person joy, and is something they can afford, who's to say it's a poor investment?
If you want to buy a Honda Accord because it'll have great resale value in eight years, that's cool. But not everyone has to value the same things.

???
How one SPENDS his money is his own business. People who want to SPEND theirs on EVs, private jets or islands in the middle of nowhere because it brings them joy should by all means do it. But buying something because you think it’s cool or fun doesn’t make it a good INVESTMENT. And if it does the same thing as something else but depreciates 10x faster - by definition it’s a poor investment.

[jesmu84]

Is a vehicle ever a good investment? Aren't they all bad investments - depreciating assets?

If you lease or buy and drive till it dies, does resale matter?

[Lennys Tap]

Is a vehicle ever a good investment? Aren't they all bad investments - depreciating assets?

If you lease or buy and drive till it dies, does resale matter?

Don’t be obtuse. Of course they depreciate over time and with use. Say you pay 50,000 for an EV or an ICE. A year later, with the same amount of use, the EV’s value is 30,000 and the ICE’s is 48,000. If you can’t tell me which investment was the better one I don’t know what to say - except that in a perfect world you would have stood next to me in the pits on the floor of the CBOE for however long your short lived career would have lasted.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Don’t be obtuse. Of course they depreciate over time and with use. Say you pay 50,000 for an EV or an ICE. A year later, with the same amount of use, the EV’s value is 30,000 and the ICE’s is 48,000. If you can’t tell me which investment was the better one I don’t know what to say - except that in a perfect world you would have stood next to me in the pits on the floor of the CBOE for however long your short lived career would have lasted.

You didn't answer his questions.  Using the term "investment" doesn't make much sense because its a terrible one no matter which one you buy. IF you resell or trade in your cars often, then purchasing one car versus another makes some sense, but I wouldn't call that an investment. It simply retains value better.

[Lennys Tap]

You didn't answer his questions.  Using the term "investment" doesn't make much sense because its a terrible one no matter which one you buy. IF you resell or trade in your cars often, then purchasing one car versus another makes some sense, but I wouldn't call that an investment. It simply retains value better.

An investment that (after usage) loses 3% after a year is a better one (or a less bad one if you prefer) than on that (after the same usage) loses 30%. Unless you are just trying to be pedantic that shouldn’t be difficult to grasp.

[Pakuni]

???
How one SPENDS his money is his own business. People who want to SPEND theirs on EVs, private jets or islands in the middle of nowhere because it brings them joy should by all means do it. But buying something because you think it’s cool or fun doesn’t make it a good INVESTMENT. And if it does the same thing as something else but depreciates 10x faster - by definition it’s a poor investment.

Is the value of an investment determined solely by the financial return?
If I, for example, invest in golf lessons, it'll never earn me a dime. But it may make playing much more enjoyable. Have I foolishly frittered away my hard-earned cash if those lessons don't land me on the tour, or at least pay off with substantial Bingo Bango Bongo wins?

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

An investment that (after usage) loses 3% after a year is a better one (or a less bad one if you prefer) than on that (after the same usage) loses 30%. Unless you are just trying to be pedantic that shouldn’t be difficult to grasp.

Unless you plan on neither selling nor trading them in. Then it’s pretty irrelevant.

[Lennys Tap]

Is the value of an investment determined solely by the financial return?
If I, for example, invest in golf lessons, it'll never earn me a dime. But it may make playing much more enjoyable. Have I foolishly frittered away my hard-earned cash if those lessons don't land me on the tour, or at least pay off with substantial Bingo Bango Bongo wins?

You’re being intentionally obtuse, too, but for the sake of argument I’ll play your game.

If you have two options as your golf teacher who will provide you with the same basic information and after a year option A cost you $2,000 and option B cost you 10x A or $20,000, then yes, option A is absolutely better from an investment standpoint.But if you’re not concerned with the investment aspect and the $18,000 extra you’re spending brings you joy because you like the way golf pro B looks and makes you feel, by all means go for it.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

You’re being intentionally obtuse, too, but for the sake of argument I’ll play your game.

If you have two options as your golf teacher who will provide you with the same basic information and after a year option A cost you $2,000 and option B cost you 10x A or $20,000, then yes, option A is absolutely better from an investment standpoint.But if you’re not concerned with the investment aspect and the $18,000 extra you’re spending brings you joy because you like the way golf pro B looks and makes you feel, by all means go for it.

That’s not the same thing at all.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I think we’ve fallen into one of these Lenny’s Doom Loops.

1. Says something dumb
2. Someone asks why he said something dumb
3. Doesn’t want to admit he said something dumb.
4. See #1

[Lennys Tap]

Unless you plan on neither selling nor trading them in. Then it’s pretty irrelevant.

Sure. If you’re leasing the equation changes.

But this discussion was about buying new and very few buyers of new cars buy with the idea that they’ll drive it until it stops running.

[Lennys Tap]

I think we’ve fallen into one of these Lenny’s Doom Loops.

1. Says something dumb
2. Someone asks why he said something dumb
3. Doesn’t want to admit he said something dumb.
4. See #1

I don’t know whether you’re hopelessly stupid or just being an a$$hole. Doesn’t make much difference, anyway.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I don’t know whether you’re hopelessly stupid or just being an a$$hole. Doesn’t make much difference, anyway.

#3 but on the road to #4.

[Pakuni]

You’re being intentionally obtuse, too, but for the sake of argument I’ll play your game.

If you have two options as your golf teacher who will provide you with the same basic information and after a year option A cost you $2,000 and option B cost you 10x A or $20,000, then yes, option A is absolutely better from an investment standpoint.But if you’re not concerned with the investment aspect and the $18,000 extra you’re spending brings you joy because you like the way golf pro B looks and makes you feel, by all means go for it.

I'm not being obtuse. I'm suggesting the same thing I suggested in my initial post ... that the value of an investment might go beyond only its financial return.
And rather than answer my question, you dodged it with an absurd hypothetical.

[ATL MU Warrior]

Don’t be obtuse. Of course they depreciate over time and with use. Say you pay 50,000 for an EV or an ICE. A year later, with the same amount of use, the EV’s value is 30,000 and the ICE’s is 48,000. If you can’t tell me which investment was the better one I don’t know what to say - except that in a perfect world you would have stood next to me in the pits on the floor of the CBOE for however long your short lived career would have lasted.

LOL. Let us know how it goes when you take your one year old car back to the dealer to trade it in and discover how terribly wrong your figures are.

[dgies9156]

Very few buyers of new cars buy with the idea that they’ll drive it until it stops running.

If I purchase a car, I'm driving it until either someone blasts the daylights out of it, or it basically dies on me. Dadgummit, I want my money's worth!

Foe example:

1975 Chevy Nova -- 125,000 miles. Sold because I didn't need it anymore.
1981 Buick Skylak -- GM "X" Car. Absolute piece of crap, fell apart at 65,000.
1987 Ford Taurus -- Traded at 90,000 miles for a Mark VIII. OK car but didn't want the lack of reliability at the time.
1994 Lincoln Mark VIII -- 153,000 miles and the air bag suspension failed.
2005 Nissan Maxima -- 86,000 miles. Kept it until I was blasted by a woman who ran a stop light.
2008 VW Eos -- Still going strong, 103,000 miles. Great toy.
2011 Buick Enclave -- 156,000 miles -- Kept it until the transmission, computer and air conditioning gave out.
2012 Buick LaCrosse -- 86,000 miles. Kept until my wife said we had too many cars. Sold for $11,000.
2015 BMW 5 Series -- 50,300 miles. Will have for another decade.
2023 Nissan Murano -- leased, 9,000 miles. Overpriced residual. Unless Nissan negotiates, will be gone at the end of the lease and we will purchase the same car at a lower price. Should last 150,000 miles.

So people do hold for the car's lifetime. That's the only way I buy new (or gently used).

[Uncle Rico]

If I purchase a car, I'm driving it until either someone blasts the daylights out of it, or it basically dies on me. Dadgummit, I want my money's worth!

Foe example:

1975 Chevy Nova -- 125,000 miles. Sold because I didn't need it anymore.
1981 Buick Skylak -- GM "X" Car. Absolute piece of crap, fell apart at 65,000.
1987 Ford Taurus -- Traded at 90,000 miles for a Mark VIII. OK car but didn't want the lack of reliability at the time.
1994 Lincoln Mark VIII -- 153,000 miles and the air bag suspension failed.
2005 Nissan Maxima -- 86,000 miles. Kept it until I was blasted by a woman who ran a stop light.
2008 VW Eos -- Still going strong, 103,000 miles. Great toy.
2011 Buick Enclave -- 156,000 miles -- Kept it until the transmission, computer and air conditioning gave out.
2012 Buick LaCrosse -- 86,000 miles. Kept until my wife said we had too many cars. Sold for $11,000.
2015 BMW 5 Series -- 50,300 miles. Will have for another decade.
2023 Nissan Murano -- leased, 9,000 miles. Overpriced residual. Unless Nissan negotiates, will be gone at the end of the lease and we will purchase the same car at a lower price. Should last 150,000 miles.

So people do hold for the car's lifetime. That's the only way I buy new (or gently used).

I buy a new car every six months.

[Goose]

Lenny,

So you think some scoopers would have been BBQ chicken on the trading floor?

[dgies9156]

I buy a new car every six months.

Thank you for your contribution to there U.S. Economy!

The UAW thanks you.

The National Automobile Dealers Association thanks you.

The government when're you buy your car thanks you for the sales tax revenue.

Etc.

[Lennys Tap]

I'm not being obtuse. I'm suggesting the same thing I suggested in my initial post ... that the value of an investment might go beyond only its financial return.
And rather than answer my question, you dodged it with an absurd hypothetical.

I answered your question earlier. If you refuse to acknowledge that there’s a difference between spend and invest what’s left to say. You wanted to pick a stupid fight and you did. Good for you.

[Lennys Tap]

LOL. Let us know how it goes when you take your one year old car back to the dealer to trade it in and discover how terribly wrong your figures are.

Tell your story to NBC news and Lester Holt. They’re the ones who reported that EVs lose 10 times more in value after year one than ICE vehicles.

[Lennys Tap]

Lenny,

So you think some scoopers would have been BBQ chicken on the trading floor?

Goose

Finger lickin good.