Yikes

[classof70]

McNeal looks awful, Dominic must be in big trouble.  What's up with this?

[HarveysWallbangers]

Holy Moses. This would be an atrocious loss. Let's hope we pull one out.

[CTWarrior]

Is there such a thing as an atrocious win?  If so, that qualifies.  I'm out of things to say about this team.  We just are not very good right now.

[MUFanInGreenBay]

We'll be lucky to win a game in the NCAA tourney this year. And we'll prolly only win one road game at max in conference this year.

[Big Papi]

Is there such a thing as an atrocious win?  If so, that qualifies.  I'm out of things to say about this team.  We just are not very good right now.

I don't know about that.  I guess I am more of an optimist but I thought except for the first couple of minutes of the DePaul game and the last couple minutes of that game we looked pretty damn good and that was the game right before this one so I don't know if I would say we are not very good right now.  Yes we looked ragged today but there were a lot of positives.  Matthews is starting to stroke it and you can see his confidence build over the course of the last few games.  Barro and Burke showed up and contributed.  Hayward stayed out of foul trouble was great.  Now I can rattle off a long list of negatives from this game, mainly the play of McNeal and James but we gutted out a win against a team that is hard to get up for and battle.  Add to the fact that the Bradley Center was empty and there was no emotion in the building whatsoever.  An ugly win but I will take it.  Now lets try to win one on the road.

[Doctor V]

We'll be lucky to win a game in the NCAA tourney this year. And we'll prolly only win one road game at max in conference this year.

youre crazy. im glad im not that pessimistic

[MU_83_florida]

pessimistic???

They got toasted by UVW & UConn and just got by SH & USF.  One must wonder if our win against ND was a fluke.

The next 3 games our definetly going to determine whether we are legit or not

[shaquilvaine]

"One must wonder if our win against ND was a fluke."

A 30 pt as$-whooping is not a fluke.  We're in a funk.  Hang in there. 

[mu_hilltopper]

Add to the fact that the Bradley Center was empty and there was no emotion in the building whatsoever.  An ugly win but I will take it.  Now lets try to win one on the road.

Funny .. Crean on the post-game said that while it wasn't a sell out, the crowd was great, was loud when we needed it, yadda yadda.

Uh huh.

[MUFanInGreenBay]

"One must wonder if our win against ND was a fluke."

A 30 pt as$-whooping is not a fluke.  We're in a funk.  Hang in there. 

I hope your right. Time will tell. By the way, I don't see us being even close to 30 points better than ND. Just like I don't see the Ville' being 20 points better than us. However, the Ville' is still a better team than us. So is G-town and UCONN. After that I think we can match-up with anyone in the BE. Those teams are clearly more talented though.

[TVDirector]

one of the nastiest games I've attended in a long time.
crowd was really not a factor--- or lack of it.

our guys played nice D, not great.
on O we are starting to look like Deane teams.
couldn't hit much outside, until late, and our inside penetration was haphazard.
Jerel looked pretty lost.

free throws?  don't get me started.

NO ONE had fire in their eyes--- save Lazar and Wes late.

if teams won't run with us, zone us and have a big middle presence we are proving mediocre.


lots of time to solve these problems...
Cincy is a big game...
let's get it back together, TC!

[muwarrior87]

positives...Wesley and Lazar can carry this team when called upon. This is the game I was waiting for from Matthews.  Free throw shooting was weak but so was everyones.  The refs did disrupt the flow of the game though. They called it really close and rather inconsistent for my liking.  I don't see any reason for both teams to be in the double bonus with over 5 minutes to go on the clock! loosen up the reigns a little. Thank goodness that didn't come back to bite us and that USF decided to shoot just as poorly from the line.  Also, Fitz had some great hussle plays. While he didn't do much offensively in terms of scoring points, he was valuable on the floor, imo.

[Big Papi]

The Big East is not for the faint of heart.  Very good talent from top to bottom and yes quite a few teams in the league have better talent than us.  Louisvile, UConn and Georgetown all have way better talent than us but yet here we are, year 3 in the Big East where we have finished in the top third of the league the first two years and a decent chance this year as well.  Without a doubt we need to play good basketball from start to finish in most games to win in this league.  Tonight wasn't one of those nights and yet we still won.  All that points to us being a very good team.  Its just too bad that some here have some extremely lofty expectations of us being a top tier team that they get extremely disappointed when we don't blow teams.  We should be having fun watching a top 25 team not blasting it constantly.  Take a look at all the top 25 teams and I can't believe anyone would put us on the same level as UNC, Memphis, UCLA, Kansas and Georgetown, yet we have shown that we do belong in the top 25 team as just about everyone else has had bad losses and good wins.  We are definitely a second tier team that can easily be grouped with about 20 other teams.  Enjoy it.

[ATWizJr]

gentlemen:

optimists?

pessimists?

how abaout realists?  And here is the reality:

we have an undersized but valiant team that scraps like hell each game against taller opposition and unless we ae getting a large number of deflections/turnovers, the game is up tempo, and we are shooting the lights out, it might be time for all of us to adjust our expectations.

[mugrack]

Live by the 3 die by the 3 and James has nowhere else to go next year but Milwaukee.

[mviale]

Yes, at 15-4 - we should throw in the towell. 

[wadesworld]

pessimistic???

They got toasted by UVW & UConn and just got by SH & USF.  One must wonder if our win against ND was a fluke.

The next 3 games our definetly going to determine whether we are legit or not

I don't think we are a great team, but we are a good team.  You point out all of the bad games Marquette has had (forgot about the Louisville game, though)...how about beating Oklahoma State, Providence, and Notre Dame all by around 30 points and being a few bad bounces away from beating #3 Duke?  We're 15-4 and 5-3 in the Big East, tied for third.  All teams that don't have the talent of a UNC, Kansas, or Memphis are going to have their streak of bad games, and they will also have their streaks where they could beat anybody.  We'll be fine.

[ATWizJr]

Define "fine".

[Doctor V]

Define "fine".

ill do it for him.

i dont think this team is less talented than the top tiers of this league- sometimes u have to step away from the recent performances and remember that we have, on paper, the BE defensive player of the year and another possible all league defender(james); two potential first teamers, mcneal and james; another guy who was expected to be atleast an honerable mention in matthews; a surprise and probable all BE selection in Hayward; a few good options off the bench in cubes, acker, fitz, barro, etc etc..........that said, i understand that potential and performance are different, but lets not say we dont have the talent, lets say it isnt performing

however, i do think the team has regressed in the past two weeks. nonetheless, it is college basketball where teams can turn it around in a hurry.

methinks its gonna be turned around in a hurry and that 'fine' he speaks of will still be atleast a top 4 finish in conference, a top 6 seed in the tourney, and atleast a sweet 16 appearance- note the atleasts

EDIT: removed flame

[chapman]

We know James and McNeal stunk and we know that tonight was overall an average game for our bigs, as bad as that is.  But what happened to our "deep team"?  We are getting beyond dismal production from the bench.  At home and the bench gets outscored 11-9 even with James and McNeal playing poorly.  The bench shot 2-9 and grabbed 8 rebounds in a combined 75 minutes (it took USF's bench 41 combined minutes to outscore ours).  Fitzgerald and Barro fell off the map when they were supposed to provide the leadership and stability that seniors bring, and there might be walk-ons out there who could outperform Acker and Cubillan tonight.

[reesiecup210]

Define "fine".

ill do it for him. fine as in just the way the team was before u decided to join the board and voice your displeasure.

i dont think this team is less talented than the top tiers of this league- sometimes u have to step away from the recent performances and remember that we have, on paper, the BE defensive player of the year and another possible all league defender(james); two potential first teamers, mcneal and james; another guy who was expected to be atleast an honerable mention in matthews; a surprise and probable all BE selection in Hayward; a few good options off the bench in cubes, acker, fitz, barro, etc etc..........that said, i understand that potential and performance are different, but lets not say we dont have the talent, lets say it isnt performing

however, i do think the team has regressed in the past two weeks. nonetheless, it is college basketball where teams can turn it around in a hurry.

methinks its gonna be turned around in a hurry and that 'fine' he speaks of will still be atleast a top 4 finish in conference, a top 6 seed in the tourney, and atleast a sweet 16 appearance- note the atleasts

If you look at the statistics, this guy joined 6 months before you did. Just because you post more and spend more time on a site than somebody else doesn't give you more clout than them. Many of the people who post on here regularly think that they can use their number of posts or time spent on this site to discredit others. If these people who "decided to join the board and voice their displeasure" weren't here, you wouldn't have a board at all. Maybe all the regular posters should start their own private board so they don't have to deal with other people that haven't posted over 100 times. Get over yourself.

[wadesworld]

methinks its gonna be turned around in a hurry and that 'fine' he speaks of will still be atleast a top 4 finish in conference, a top 6 seed in the tourney, and atleast a sweet 16 appearance- note the atleasts

Nailed it on the head.  I'd say fine would be a 4 seed or better in the tournament.  I think we'll end up 12-6 in the Big East (won't say who I think we'll lose to because I can almost guarantee that we will lose 1 game we shouldn't and win one that we shouldn't. I think that'll be good for a first-round bye in the Big East Tournament and I think we'll get to the semi-finals of the Big East Tournament and have a record of 23-7 going into the tournament, giving us no worse than a 4 seed.  I think we'll get to at least the Sweet Sixteen.  I might be an optimist, but I hope I'm proven right.  That is my definition of fine...anything more (in the tournament) is great and anything less I find to be a disappointment.

[IAmMarquette]

and there might be walk-ons out there who could outperform Acker and Cubillan tonight.

Exactly right, chapman. Tonight, for this game, we weren't very good.

[MUFanInGreenBay]

The next 3 games will really tell us where this team is heading. At Cincy, home vs. Ville', and at ND. I hope we can win at Cincy and come home and beat Ville'. That would make me very happy. I really hate Louisville more thaq any other team in the BE, and getting a road win this weekend at Cincy I think would be big for the team's confidence.

[MarquetteVol]

methinks its gonna be turned around in a hurry and that 'fine' he speaks of will still be atleast a top 4 finish in conference, a top 6 seed in the tourney, and atleast a sweet 16 appearance- note the atleasts

Nailed it on the head.  I'd say fine would be a 4 seed or better in the tournament.  I think we'll end up 12-6 in the Big East (won't say who I think we'll lose to because I can almost guarantee that we will lose 1 game we shouldn't and win one that we shouldn't. I think that'll be good for a first-round bye in the Big East Tournament and I think we'll get to the semi-finals of the Big East Tournament and have a record of 23-7 going into the tournament, giving us no worse than a 4 seed.  I think we'll get to at least the Sweet Sixteen.  I might be an optimist, but I hope I'm proven right.  That is my definition of fine...anything more (in the tournament) is great and anything less I find to be a disappointment.

It all comes down to expectations. That would be my definition of "pleased." I would be pleased with your prediction. Fine is like, "Eh." "Pleased" is happy. I would be happy.

[mu03eng]

My god we have a bunch of entitled whiners cheering for Marquette these days.  What the hell is up with booing the players AT HOME for missed free throws?  Do we really think that helps a team that has a confidence issue right now?  What is with people stepping out to the ledge when we have won 4 out of our last 6 in Beast play?

I clearly see some negatives with this team and yes its not playing well.  Should we discuss that, absolutely.  However, some people need to realize its a conference season of 18 games, we are in a funk, but we have talent and will likely get out of said funk.  We don't need to be all doom and gloom.  Its no different than baseball, teams can go on 12 game skids and still make the playoffs, hell look at the Rockies they sucked the first half of the season last year and still made the World Series.  Are we playing our best basketball right now?  No, but we should be playing our best basketball in March.  I am certain we learn things from every game and come March we will be poised to do damage in the tourny.  Lets have a little confidence in the fanbase here that things will improve....do we have any reason to believe we won't?

[Chili]

My god we have a bunch of entitled whiners cheering for Marquette these days.  What the hell is up with booing the players AT HOME for missed free throws?  Do we really think that helps a team that has a confidence issue right now?  What is with people stepping out to the ledge when we have won 4 out of our last 6 in Beast play?

I clearly see some negatives with this team and yes its not playing well.  Should we discuss that, absolutely.  However, some people need to realize its a conference season of 18 games, we are in a funk, but we have talent and will likely get out of said funk.  We don't need to be all doom and gloom.  Its no different than baseball, teams can go on 12 game skids and still make the playoffs, hell look at the Rockies they sucked the first half of the season last year and still made the World Series.  Are we playing our best basketball right now?  No, but we should be playing our best basketball in March.  I am certain we learn things from every game and come March we will be poised to do damage in the tourny.  Lets have a little confidence in the fanbase here that things will improve....do we have any reason to believe we won't?

Well said.

[Big Papi]

Define "fine".

ill do it for him.

i dont think this team is less talented than the top tiers of this league- sometimes u have to step away from the recent performances and remember that we have, on paper, the BE defensive player of the year and another possible all league defender(james); two potential first teamers, mcneal and james; another guy who was expected to be atleast an honerable mention in matthews; a surprise and probable all BE selection in Hayward; a few good options off the bench in cubes, acker, fitz, barro, etc etc..........that said, i understand that potential and performance are different, but lets not say we dont have the talent, lets say it isnt performing

EDIT: removed flame

Yes we do have some great talent that you mention but it is the 5 spot where we are probably the worst in the league and our lack of a real inside game that keeps us from being a legit contender of the Big East title and a tier below Georgetown and others.  That is why we can really struggle at times and look great in others.  When our great perimeter talent struggles with their outside shot for whatever reason we are not good and that ebbs and flows not only game to game but during a game.  The game yesterday is a perfect example.  We struggle with our outside shots for most of the game and we struggle with South Florida.  All of a sudden, Matthews gets hot, Hayward nails a 3 and in a matter of 2 minutes, game over.  That works against the bottom half of Big East teams but against teams that are NCAA worthy, we can't afford to struggle with our outside game and expect to win so when its on, its blow out city and when its not, it can get ugly.  Overall we do have more talent than most teams and that is why we are ranked and deserved to be ranked, its just our reliance on our perimeter game that can frustrate any die hard MU fan because when we are off, we don't look good.

[mugrack]

Previously this team has been great in January and awful in March.  I'd rather be awful for a few games in January and great in March.

[NavinRJohnson]

I'll take the optimists view on this one...earlier in the year I was of the belief that Matthews was struggling a bit as he had not really established himself, or established his own identity or role on this team.  That situation has done a complete 180, as after last night, there is no question who the leader on this team is. Wes did it on both ends last night, and has for the past few games. Hayward has obviously stepped into a major role as well. Beyond that, the bench delivered quality minutes last night while McNeal and James were doing whatever it is they were doing.

So here it is, you have Matthews and Hayward playing a at a very high level, and providing some desperately needed leadership. The bench that has been good all year, continues to contribute, maybe more now than earlier in the season with the addition of Blackledge. The key now is to get McNeal and James in particular, along with Barro to work their way out of this funk that they seem to be in. If they can manage to do that, there is not a game left on the schedule that we can't win. I won't pretend to know what is causing the problems for James and McNeal whether it is simply on court, off court, injury, or some combination thereof. Nor does it really matter, but I do have faith in Crean and staff to use the right combination of shame, film study, encouragement, etc. to snap 'em out of it. Once that happens, we will again be the team that beat Wisconsin and ND - maybe better.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

I agree with Navin about Hayward and Matthews. It's great to see them playing well. Neither one of them is close to as frustrating to watch as McNeal or James.

[jaybilaswho?]

it doesnt matter how ugly it was... that game was enjoyable when your sitting in a suite enjoying free beer and free food. Thanks Miller.

[sigep80]

Here's how ugly it was - 2nd half scoring

1st 12 minutes - 4 points
13 minutes - 7 points
14 minutes - 10 points
15 minutes - 10 points
16 minutes - 14 points
17 minutes - 17 points
18 minutes - 23 points
19 minutes - 30 points

10 points in 15 minutes!!!!!!  No energy, no aggressiveness until the last three minutes of the game.

[spiral97]

Guys - knock it off.  Restrain your posts in this thread to those that the thread originally called for (i.e. about the game).  The salami throwing, prune juice pouring, grapefruit forcing, salt rubbing type posts are not welcome and will be deleted.  Now, back to your originally requested topic...