Fran has weighed in

[PJDunn]

I don't see much wrong with this.  Pretty much telling it like it is.

+1

[ChicosBailBonds]

Ready2Fly....I would ask the caribou.

[bma725]

You guys are acting like Crean didn't bring in guys from JUCO and Prep School that were major academic risks.  The reality is he brought in quite a few and went after even more but couldn't land them(Takais Brown anyone?).  By my count he had three JUCO players that were academic risks(Lott, Blackledge, MJax) and six prep school players that were risk(Sanders, Townsend, Hayward, Burke, Cubillan, Saunders, Hazel).

Even a few of the high school guys had academic issues as well.  Wade was a partial qualifier.  Barro briefly attended a JUCO in Kansas trying to get a GED after being ruled ineligible in Chicago.  Mbakwe attended three different high schools and barely qualified.  Mason attended three high schools and had academic issues at both MU and LSU.  James Matthews was lucky to get into school and couldn't even stay academically eligible for a semester.  Anthony Green committed but had no chance of qualifying after high school or prep school and didn't sign an LOI.

It's not as if standards have drastically changed since last April. 

[79Warrior]

BadgerFran has weighed in.....hold the phones



It's a heck of a gamble and I hope it works out for my long suffering MU friends.  (That's a topic for another day; MU has had a perfectly respectable basketball program in terms of results for the last twenty years, but their burden is that they can't forget the 70s, which will never come back.  The suffering is self-imposed.)"[/color]

As an alum in school in the late 70's, the last two senteces ring painfully true.

[StillAWarrior]

Buzz is doing what he has to do right now, and doing what he knows best. I couldn't be more intrigued by this group of JUCO and non JUCO's coming in this season. The sky (and basement) is the limit here.

And my point is, I hope you're right.  I hope Buzz is just doing what he needs to do to even out the classes and get some experience on next year's team.  But the truth of the matter is we have no idea if that's case.  He may just be "doing what he has to do right now" or this may just be the way that Buzz recruits.  I hope it's the former.  Only time will tell.

[deep vacuum]

You guys are acting like Crean didn't bring in guys from JUCO and Prep School that were major academic risks.  The reality is he brought in quite a few and went after even more but couldn't land them(Takais Brown anyone?).  By my count he had three JUCO players that were academic risks(Lott, Blackledge, MJax) and six prep school players that were risk(Sanders, Townsend, Hayward, Burke, Cubillan, Saunders, Hazel).

Even a few of the high school guys had academic issues as well.  Wade was a partial qualifier.  Barro briefly attended a JUCO in Kansas trying to get a GED after being ruled ineligible in Chicago.  Mbakwe attended three different high schools and barely qualified.  Mason attended three high schools and had academic issues at both MU and LSU.  James Matthews was lucky to get into school and couldn't even stay academically eligible for a semester.  Anthony Green committed but had no chance of qualifying after high school or prep school and didn't sign an LOI.

It's not as if standards have drastically changed since last April. 

Nice post.

[MR.HAYWARD]

You guys are acting like Crean didn't bring in guys from JUCO and Prep School that were major academic risks.  The reality is he brought in quite a few and went after even more but couldn't land them(Takais Brown anyone?).  By my count he had three JUCO players that were academic risks(Lott, Blackledge, MJax) and six prep school players that were risk(Sanders, Townsend, Hayward, Burke, Cubillan, Saunders, Hazel).

Even a few of the high school guys had academic issues as well.  Wade was a partial qualifier.  Barro briefly attended a JUCO in Kansas trying to get a GED after being ruled ineligible in Chicago.  Mbakwe attended three different high schools and barely qualified.  Mason attended three high schools and had academic issues at both MU and LSU.  James Matthews was lucky to get into school and couldn't even stay academically eligible for a semester.  Anthony Green committed but had no chance of qualifying after high school or prep school and didn't sign an LOI.

It's not as if standards have drastically changed since last April. 

+10 hundred billion million

Barro had a saga to end all sagas, yet the focus is on Mbao.  Crean signed a ton of two year JUCO's meaning they were academically ineleigble out of HS, yet the focus is on the JUCO's that buzz has signed that were predominately eligible out of HS.
To use Memphis or Cincinnati as comparisons are so far off base.  I personally never had a problem with anyone signining preps or JUCO's, and I dont think the majority of America does either.  What brought bad light to those "rogue" programs was not where they came from but what they did while on campus and in many cases the fact that the seemingly could get away with anything.  

MU under Buzz has signed high character kids, none of them have checkered pasts with the law nor have they run into legal or academic issues since on campus.  

Al mcGuire, Bob Knight and many other coaches have signed tons of JUco's and other types of plyers that came from non-ordinary routes with tremendous succes becuase they and thier Univeristies demanded accountability and becuase they demanded it themselves.  I think it is pretty sad for Mu fans and weak of UW fans to compare Buzz Willimas or even Tom Crean to Cincinnati or Memphis or Fresno State.  At least allow his first player to be arrested or flunk out of school before that happens, just dont hold your breath...I know the guys Buzz is bringing in will represent their university with class just like Jimmy Butler, joe Fulce and yes even Zach Morley at Wisconisn did...i seem to remeber him being a high character kid that UW fans thought the world of...as they should have.

[madtownwarrior]

Who gives a rats a** what Fran thinks...

1)  Tanning Boy left us in a bind with bad recruiting classes the past few years and the bolt to "It's Indiana" - Buzz needed to bring in some JUCO's for upperclassmen and balancing the classes
2)   Most of the JUCO's seem to be of a different flavor - qualifiers out of high school like Butler and Fulce.   I do not know the story well for Clark and DJO...  The press on Mbao seems positive despite the high school he comes from.
3)  There is a high degree of family at MU - Fran and the f**ks at Badgermaniac will never understand this, they will not turn this program into a Memphis or UNLV

Finally - let's just kick the crap out of Fran's alma mater by 35 or drop another 100 on them like last year (by the UWM has had their share of JUCO's as well - but they still seem to suck).   

The Badger crowd is afraid and rightfully so - so they are flinging as much crap as they can...   They can have their forthcoming 4th place finishes in the Big 10 and their 52 - 44 "defensive" battles while Tubby, Crean, Weber, Painter, Matta and Izzo out recruit the crap out of them....

and Buzz out recruiting the crap out of them - at least Bo won't have to have a recruiting battle for the 6'10" white kids out of northern Wisconsin anymore (and no offense to 6'10" white kids from northern wisconsin intended)

[Lennys Tap]

You guys are acting like Crean didn't bring in guys from JUCO and Prep School that were major academic risks.  The reality is he brought in quite a few and went after even more but couldn't land them(Takais Brown anyone?).  By my count he had three JUCO players that were academic risks(Lott, Blackledge, MJax) and six prep school players that were risk(Sanders, Townsend, Hayward, Burke, Cubillan, Saunders, Hazel).

Even a few of the high school guys had academic issues as well.  Wade was a partial qualifier.  Barro briefly attended a JUCO in Kansas trying to get a GED after being ruled ineligible in Chicago.  Mbakwe attended three different high schools and barely qualified.  Mason attended three high schools and had academic issues at both MU and LSU.  James Matthews was lucky to get into school and couldn't even stay academically eligible for a semester.  Anthony Green committed but had no chance of qualifying after high school or prep school and didn't sign an LOI.

It's not as if standards have drastically changed since last April. 

Perhaps this dead on post will help some of the more hysterical move off the ledge. Every DI roster is loaded with players who wouldn't be at the school if they couldn't play ball. The key is having hard working and high character players, a concerned and competent coaching staff and a solid academic support system. This is expected by MU's fans and demanded by MU's administration. What makes people think this has changed?

[MUBasketball]

Couple things here...

First, Fran is the ultimate apologist for the teams he supports (UW and UWM). Just an observation. He supports his teams and I've never, ever heard him criticize either program, their coaches, or players. For that, I respect him. I'm the same way, as are a select few others on message boards. Unfortunately, a lot of fans feel better about themselves jumping online and hiding behind a made-up screen name and blasting coaches and kids. I think that's bush.

Anyway...while I respect that aspect of him, he's incredibly annoying (which I'm sure is one of his major goals, to rile up the MU fan base), but more than anything he's a hypocrite.

For a prime example, he didn't lay one ounce of blame at Rob Jeter for some of his disaster recruiting mistakes he's made during his tenure. Last season, UWM's roster was gutted mid-season with a player beating the hell out of his girlfriend (former Oklahoma State player Torre Johnson), as well as numerous other departures, and guys with character issues. Not once did he point the finger at Jeter for bringing these kids in, and turned the other cheek when all these events went down.

Then, Buzz brings in some JUCO's and he screams from the mountain tops how shady things are getting.

He's a tool...a scared tool at that. He knows the MU program is acquiring better talent than UW, and he's shaking in his boots.

[Ellenson Guerrero]

Let's be honest, I don't mean to offend anyone, but how hard is it to graduate with a degree in communications or social justice. As long as these kids know how to read and write MU will equip them with as much tutoring and disciplined studying habits as they need. Nobody cares what the guys' GPAs are. Just go to class write a couple decent papers, go to summer school to ease the workload, grab the Cs, and it won't end up being a big deal.

[Badgerhater920]

Whether he is telling it like it is or not, MU is already a more successful program than UW. The post should be written in green, not red.

[TJ]

Unfortunately, a lot of fans feel better about themselves jumping online and hiding behind a made-up screen name and blasting coaches and kids. I think that's bush.

Hey, I bet a lot of these guys are perfectly happy to blast coaches and kids in public too.

[bs4173]

How about we talk about this when these kids actually get to campus? How is all of this such a huge change from Crean, except for the fact that this incoming class has serious height and serious talent?

Didn't Hayward have qualification problems...nobody's questioning whether or not he's a negative part of the team. Didn't Crean's JUCO man, Trend Blackledge, have academic issues? Isn't Buzz's whole philosophy "Character, character, character? Give Buzz a chance. I feel like he's earned it after proving every doubter wrong this season.

Sorry for phrasing everything in questions, but maybe it's because Fran's whole litany--with fair and potentially true points--is itself questionable and 100% speculation.

[GGGG]

Whether he is telling it like it is or not, MU is already a more successful program than UW. The post should be written in green, not red.

You sure about that?  Outside of a more recent final four appearance by our beloved, I am not sure that at this point you could say that one or the other is "more successful."

[Hards Alumni]

I hope you are kidding Wiz.

It isn't even close.

[MR.HAYWARD]

Perhaps this dead on post will help some of the more hysterical move off the ledge. Every DI roster is loaded with players who wouldn't be at the school if they couldn't play ball. The key is having hard working and high character players, a concerned and competent coaching staff and a solid academic support system. This is expected by MU's fans and demanded by MU's administration. What makes people think this has changed?

+10 hundred trillion Lenny

[GGGG]

Well, if you go back 30+ years yes.  However if you look at the past decade or so, they are relatively equal - each has a final four, each have a couple conference championships, UW has a couple additional sweet 16s.  I am not sure what relevance the 1977 national championship has to the status of the current program...probably as much relevance as UW's 1941 championship.

Regardless, I am not sure why we feel it is important to get into some sort of pissing contest over who has the better "program."  They are both high-level programs, in top conferences with loyal fan-bases.  We don't really have battles over the same recruits or fans.  I don't understand the obsession fans of either team have with proving one is "better."

It's just fun to have a rival that is relevant.  There are not many states where half the division one teams play in front of 12,000+ fans every game.  That's a good thing.

[ecompt]

I hate to say it but I agree with some of Fran's feelings. I understand why Buzz did what he did this year but I would hope we could in the next few years go back to the policy of recruiting freshmen who would be here four years. That said, UW is the last school that should be talking about its admission policies regarding athletes.

[ZMovieman]

Let's be honest, I don't mean to offend anyone, but how hard is it to graduate with a degree in communications or social justice. As long as these kids know how to read and write MU will equip them with as much tutoring and disciplined studying habits as they need. Nobody cares what the guys' GPAs are. Just go to class write a couple decent papers, go to summer school to ease the workload, grab the Cs, and it won't end up being a big deal.

I really tried to let this crap go but it's bothering me. Are you implying that a communications or social justice degree is inherently less difficult than business or engineering? That's utter bullcrap. A degree is what you make of it. Frankly, the truth is that the reason a lot of athletes are in these fields is because the classes do not have a lot of labs (which would create scheduling issues) and the general ed's are fewer in Communication than the other colleges. Sorry if this comes across as a sensitive graduate yelling to get off the high horse, but the implication that comm or soj courses are easier or for traditionally academically challenged students pisses me off.

[🏀]

I really tried to let this crap go but it's bothering me. Are you implying that a communications or social justice degree is inherently less difficult than business or engineering? That's utter bullcrap. A degree is what you make of it. Frankly, the truth is that the reason a lot of athletes are in these fields is because the classes do not have a lot of labs (which would create scheduling issues) and the general ed's are fewer in Communication than the other colleges. Sorry if this comes across as a sensitive graduate yelling to get off the high horse, but the implication that comm or soj courses are easier or for traditionally academically challenged students pisses me off.

But you do realize it's true right? Feel free to compare the classes and more importantly schedules of a communications student to an engineering student.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

But you do realize it's true right? Feel free to compare the classes and more importantly schedules of a communications student to an engineering student.

Not to spin this off into a whole different topic... but...

I think it depends on the person to determine what is "harder".

I know some incredibly smart engineers and medical students who couldn't tie their own shoes. If you put them in Comm. or Marketing they would bomb. They are certainly "smart enough", but a lot of things that come easy to a Comm. student wouldn't be so easy for the engineer and vice versa.

Some people can do it all (engage left and right side of their brain, communicate well, creative but still analytical, etc.), those people are usually very successful in the "real world"

With all of this said, for most people, a Comm. degree is certainly less intimidating and probably less challenging than a degree in biomedical engineering.

[MR.HAYWARD]

Well, if you go back 30+ years yes.  However if you look at the past decade or so, they are relatively equal - each has a final four, each have a couple conference championships, UW has a couple additional sweet 16s.  I am not sure what relevance the 1977 national championship has to the status of the current program...probably as much relevance as UW's 1941 championship.

Regardless, I am not sure why we feel it is important to get into some sort of pissing contest over who has the better "program."  They are both high-level programs, in top conferences with loyal fan-bases.  We don't really have battles over the same recruits or fans.  I don't understand the obsession fans of either team have with proving one is "better."

It's just fun to have a rival that is relevant.  There are not many states where half the division one teams play in front of 12,000+ fans every game.  That's a good thing.

So what you are then saying is that MU has a better program than say an IU or a Georgetown, or possibly a Kentucky based on the last ten years?  Please that is a reatrded remark.  The last ten years has been heretofore never seen before peak of Wisconsin basketball yet is by your own admission on par with MU.  Now would you like to review the the last 5 decades?  Even the 80's clearly Mu's low water mark were better than the 80's in Madison.  Wisconisn was the doormat battling NW for last place every year in the B11 for the last 50 years until the last decade.  

[Nukem2]

As alluded to in an earlier post in this thread, the JUCO recruits have a far different flavor to them than the usual Big 12 / Bob Huggins type recruitment of JUCOs.  Three are actually qualifiers and have 3 years of elegibility in Fulce, Butler and (ultimately) DJO.  Buycks and Clark are local guys who have overcome adversity.  Mbao is really an international guy who is getting his footing in the USA at (unfortuately from an appearance standpoint) Stoneridge HS.  From all accounts, Youss does not have academic issues, but rather eligibility issues due to his international status and his escperience in Spain.  Normally, I too would not be thrilled with taking a number of JUCOS in a short time frame.  But, this seems to be a different scenario here.  Certainly Fulce and Butler have worked out well.  In the end, all of this speculation by BB Fran (and Chicos, who stated on Badger Nation under his Striped Tomato handle that he agrees with 85% of  BB's post)  is far too premature. Also, Buzz is an upstanding guy.  He is not taking foolish chances.

[LON]

Well, if you go back 30+ years yes.  However if you look at the past decade or so, they are relatively equal - each has a final four, each have a couple conference championships, UW has a couple additional sweet 16s.  I am not sure what relevance the 1977 national championship has to the status of the current program...probably as much relevance as UW's 1941 championship.

Regardless, I am not sure why we feel it is important to get into some sort of pissing contest over who has the better "program."  They are both high-level programs, in top conferences with loyal fan-bases.  We don't really have battles over the same recruits or fans.  I don't understand the obsession fans of either team have with proving one is "better."

It's just fun to have a rival that is relevant.  There are not many states where half the division one teams play in front of 12,000+ fans every game.  That's a good thing.

You need to increase your sample size.