Up 3 end of game....FOUL!!!

[cheebs09]

Obviously not. Foul the dribbler when they cross half court.

Didn’t they cross half court with 10-15 seconds left? Then you are extending the game for PC.

Even at 7 seconds, they don’t have to miss the second FT. They could force an MU turnover or foul and still have 5 seconds to hit a 3. You could foul in that scenario of up 3.

[injuryBug]

I would have had Koby foul.  7 seconds misses 2nd up 2 with 5 left we make 1 of 2 still up 3 with 5 left foul on the in bounds or on the rebound now at 4 seconds.  It would have worked.  Koby's guy was 35 ft from basket dribbling not in shooting position and closely guarded would have been easy to foul.  I am guessing this is not practiced by wojo and he does not like that scenario or he would have a call for the foul.
Defensively we should have been switching every screen and given up the 2 instead of chasing shooters.

Then again a 25% 3pt shooter hit the shot his first make of the game

[Its DJOver]

Hindsight is always 20/20, but put me in the camp that would prefer to foul.  Other than the Purdue Virginia game last year, are there really any notable instances of that strategy not working?

[SaveOD238]

Up 3 I'm not fouling until we're under 5 seconds, and then I'm not fouling a guy who is known to not be a shoot.  Reaves was less than 25% from 3 this season.  He hit 2 in the last 5:05 of the game...sometimes kids get lucky.

[CTWarrior]

Up 3 I'm not fouling until we're under 5 seconds, and then I'm not fouling a guy who is known to not be a shoot.  Reaves was less than 25% from 3 this season.  He hit 2 in the last 5:05 of the game...sometimes kids get lucky.

I agree with this.

[Mr. Nielsen]

Up 3 I'm not fouling until we're under 5 seconds, and then I'm not fouling a guy who is known to not be a shoot.  Reaves was less than 25% from 3 this season.  He hit 2 in the last 5:05 of the game...sometimes kids get lucky.

Yet, Koby's guy was 35 feet away with 7 seconds left. You can go for the steal which would be hard that would result in the foul.

[Its DJOver]

Yet, Koby's guy was 35 feet away with 7 seconds left. You can go for the steal which would be hard that would result in the foul.

Exactly, even if the guy is only a 25% three point shooter, that's still 1 in 4 that the game goes OT, with a lot of scenarios where no matter how good the D is, he just hits a shot.  If you foul, they either have to make then miss then get an Oboard then hit another shot, or get into a free throw shooting contest with Markus.  Again, other than the Purdue Virginia E8 game, can anyone name a game where fouling didn't work?  Wojo made the wrong call.

[Jay Bee]

Exactly, even if the guy is only a 25% three point shooter, that's still 1 in 4 that the game goes OT, with a lot of scenarios where no matter how good the D is, he just hits a shot.  If you foul, they either have to make then miss then get an Oboard then hit another shot, or get into a free throw shooting contest with Markus.  Again, other than the Purdue Virginia E8 game, can anyone name a game where fouling didn't work?  Wojo made the wrong call.

No, it’s not a 1 in 4 chance if the guy is a 25% shooter. 100% of his shots aren’t under stress must-shoot scenarios

So many of you folks are bonkers

Way more to it than “well, clock says x, so foul”

PS- Lazar vs Missouri

[injuryBug]

Also end of game I wanted to see the Bryce Drew play face guarding Howard to not let him catch send a big or long guy like Cain to mid court catch and pass to a sprinting howard for what would be a great look

[Its DJOver]

No, it’s not a 1 in 4 chance if the guy is a 25% shooter. 100% of his shots aren’t under stress must-shoot scenarios

So many of you folks are bonkers

Way more to it than “well, clock says x, so foul”

PS- Lazar vs Missouri

Fine, drop it to 15%.  I'd still much rather turn the game into a free throw shooting contest with Markus on our side.  Lazar vs Missou was what, a decade ago, so that game plus UVA vs PU last year are the two instances?  Wojo made the wrong call.

[CTWarrior]

Exactly, even if the guy is only a 25% three point shooter, that's still 1 in 4 that the game goes OT, with a lot of scenarios where no matter how good the D is, he just hits a shot.  If you foul, they either have to make then miss then get an Oboard then hit another shot, or get into a free throw shooting contest with Markus.  Again, other than the Purdue Virginia E8 game, can anyone name a game where fouling didn't work?  Wojo made the wrong call.

It is not 1 in 4 because we would still have the ball with almost 5 seconds left.  Of course the best play we could come up with was a running contested 45 footer with that time.  I am still agnostic about whether or not to foul there.  We got a poor 3 point shooter to take a tough, not completely in rhythm shot with a hand in his face, which I would think would lower his chances of making to something less than 25% anyway.  I suppose I wish we would have fouled because of the way it worked out, but I won't second guess that particular decision.

[Its DJOver]

It is not 1 in 4 because we would still have the ball with almost 5 seconds left.  Of course the best play we could come up with was a running contested 45 footer with that time.  I am still agnostic about whether or not to foul there.  We got a poor 3 point shooter to take a tough, not completely in rhythm shot with a hand in his face, which I would think would lower his chances of making to something less than 25% anyway.  I suppose I wish we would have fouled because of the way it worked out, but I won't second guess that particular decision.

Whatever percentage you think that a player hits a three there, IMO it's higher than either; a.) PC makes the first ft, PC intentionally misses the second ft, PC gets the offensive rebound, PC hits another shot; or b.) PC hits both fts, is still down by one and in all likelihood we're going to shoot fts ourselves.

I know that in scenario b.) we would still have to inbound the ball without turning it over but consider; 1.) we can run the baseline, 2.) iirc we still had a TO if we couldn't get it in, 3.) we had two players north of 85% from the line that would be handling the ball, 4.) we successfully performed exactly what we would have needed to do 3 or 4 times to close out Nova, with some of those coming after Markus fouled out.  Wojo made the wrong call.

[Jay Bee]

Whatever percentage you think that a player hits a three there, IMO it's higher than either; a.) PC makes the first ft, PC intentionally misses the second ft, PC gets the offensive rebound, PC hits another shot; or b.) PC hits both fts, is still down by one and in all likelihood we're going to shoot fts ourselves.

I know that in scenario b.) we would still have to inbound the ball without turning it over but consider; 1.) we can run the baseline, 2.) iirc we still had a TO if we couldn't get it in, 3.) we had two players north of 85% from the line that would be handling the ball, 4.) we successfully performed exactly what we would have needed to do 3 or 4 times to close out Nova, with some of those coming after Markus fouled out.  Wojo made the wrong call.

You’re missing do much. Need to understand your players too, and how they’ve practiced. Can you trust a “good foul” — how high is the risk that they foul on a shot by accident?

All depends. Many factors to consider

[Its DJOver]

You’re missing do much. Need to understand your players too, and how they’ve practiced. Can you trust a “good foul” — how high is the risk that they foul on a shot by accident?

All depends. Many factors to consider

Sure it's not 100%, and there is always something that can go wrong, but I still maintain that Wojo made the wrong call.  You're a big numbers guy, what are the odds of an offensive rebound after a missed ft?  What are the odds that Markus loses a ft contest where he is spotted anywhere between 1 and 3 points?  You're right that there are many factors to consider, and if this were the days of Derrick, I might reconsider, but Markus and Koby are both north of 85% from the line on the year, I'd trust them to get the job done.

[Jay Bee]

Sure it's not 100%, and there is always something that can go wrong, but I still maintain that Wojo made the wrong call.  You're a big numbers guy, what are the odds of an offensive rebound after a missed ft?

Depends on what the shooting team is trying to do. Overall the % has declined over the years and probably sits just over 10% now... but many teams don’t ”try”

Maybe 20% on a focused rush (which we perhaps should have done w/BB last night, ugh)

[Its DJOver]

Depends on what the shooting team is trying to do. Overall the % has declined over the years and probably sits just over 10% now... but many teams don’t ”try”

Maybe 20% on a focused rush (which we perhaps should have done w/BB last night, ugh)

I know it would go up with a "focused rush", but 20% seems a little generous.  It's also actually difficult to have a "good miss" when you're shooting fts. 

I guess I'd just rather have the option of "our" players making plays.  You can play the best D, and opponents still just hit shots.  A good box out is 100% on you, in-bounding the ball is on you, making your own fts is on you.  With this team, and the ft shooters it has, I will always be in favor of extending the game in a situation like last night.  To each their own.

[ATL MU Warrior]

I would have had Koby foul.  7 seconds misses 2nd up 2 with 5 left we make 1 of 2 still up 3 with 5 left foul on the in bounds or on the rebound now at 4 seconds.  It would have worked.  Koby's guy was 35 ft from basket dribbling not in shooting position and closely guarded would have been easy to foul.  I am guessing this is not practiced by wojo and he does not like that scenario or he would have a call for the foul.
Defensively we should have been switching every screen and given up the 2 instead of chasing shooters.

Then again a 25% 3pt shooter hit the shot his first make of the game

You don't want to have Koby foul in that scenario because he already had 4 so would have been out of the game.  In the event they make both, you have just removed your best free throw shooter and 2nd best ball handler from the game, right when you need him. 

[bilsu]

You’re missing do much. Need to understand your players too, and how they’ve practiced. Can you trust a “good foul” — how high is the risk that they foul on a shot by accident?

All depends. Many factors to consider

A player knowing he is going to be fouled can just throw the ball up towards the basket. Not a guarantee, but the player may be given three free throws on a shot that has no chance of going in.

[Its DJOver]

A player knowing he is going to be fouled can just throw the ball up towards the basket. Not a guarantee, but the player may be given three free throws on a shot that has no chance of going in.

Who says you have to foul the ball handler?  I had a bad angle because of where I was sitting, but if the ball ever got inside the three point line it should have happened then.  Look at Theo's 5th (I believe) foul, running over a guy setting a screen.  Plenty of ways to foul to both guarantee no 3 fta, and get a worse ft shooter at the line.  The fear that someone is going to flail their arms and try to get the refs to give them 3 fts is way oerblown.

[MU82]

Majerus used to say that fouling when up 3 set up the only possible way you could give up 4 points and lose the game: kid hits the first, misses the second, they grab the rebound and there's a wide-open 3-pointer because that so often happens after an offensive rebound. And congrats, you've just grabbed defeat from the jaws of victory by overthinking it.

Having said that, I like fouling with 3-4 seconds left, like when a guy is rushing up the court and you grab him near the midcourt line. Wojo did just that in a game last year IIRC. Fouling a guy with 7-8 seconds left, though ... that can be pretty dangerous. The guy doesn't even need to miss FTs on purpose; just make the 2 FTs to cut it to 1 and force a TO either on the IB pass or immediately after it's inbounded. We don't have the greatest press break in history.

We did have the arrow, so it makes it a little more favorable for the foul-em-no-matter-what strategy, but I'm OK with how we played the situation. They ended up having a terrible shooter take a pressure shot with a 6-8 guy's hand in his face.

What I really didn't like was what happened after the 3 went in. We ran a play to get Markus open and curling toward midcourt but I guess McEwen didn't see him and ended up throwing a pass to Bailey and getting the ball back, and we had no chance at a decent shot. Get that ball to Markus on the fly, and he probably gets a decent look at a 25-30 footer -- the kind of shot Junior hit to tie UConn back in 2013.

[Its DJOver]

We don't have the greatest press break in history.

People seem to say this almost every year, and I really don't see it.  Granted I haven't seen every possession of MU basketball this year, but I honestly can't remember a time where we haven't been able to get the ball past midcourt this season.  Breaking the PC press would have been very similar to the Nova press, which we did multiple times, and multiple times without Markus.  Koby has had his faults, but has been great in this regard.  6'-4" so can see over people to make the right pass, and also hitting his fts so can just take the foul if necessary.   

Another potential problem that really shouldn't have bothered us if we had chosen to foul.  Again, no way works 100% of the time, but you really couldn't as for better personnel suited to deal with fouling.

[MU82]

People seem to say this almost every year, and I really don't see it.  Granted I haven't seen every possession of MU basketball this year, but I honestly can't remember a time where we haven't been able to get the ball past midcourt this season.  Breaking the PC press would have been very similar to the Nova press, which we did multiple times, and multiple times without Markus.  Koby has had his faults, but has been great in this regard.  6'-4" so can see over people to make the right pass, and also hitting his fts so can just take the foul if necessary.   

Another potential problem that really shouldn't have bothered us if we had chosen to foul.  Again, no way works 100% of the time, but you really couldn't as for better personnel suited to deal with fouling.

OK

Of course, had McEwen fouled, he wouldn't have been on the court to break the press and/or shoot FTs.

I'm not going to argue with you about this. I think it was a close call, not a no-brainer one way or the other. Majerus, whose coaching ability most Scoopers seem to respect, said never foul in that situation. Others always foul. I think there was a little too much time on the clock. You think otherwise. We lost, so I guess you're right.

[Its DJOver]

Bump, good coaches learn from their mistakes.

[mu_hilltopper]

The most promising thing about the Georgetown game is that Wojo is reading MUScoop, fouling up 3 under 10 seconds.

With our armchair coaching finally happening on-court, the sky is the limit.

[Dr. Blackheart]

The most promising thing about the Georgetown game is that Wojo is reading MUScoop, fouling up 3 under 10 seconds.

With our armchair coaching finally happening on-court, the sky is the limit.

I was behind Wojo at Arby’s Glendale drive-thru the other day too.

#bncmatta