Is Wojo Telling Us Something

[GGGG]

I can really see that your not angry the all the cursing and passive aggressive statements really back that up.

I curse constantly.  It isn't an indicator of my anger.

I don't read that context. He was listing general reasons that the NBA would be better and Henry was an example. If you take out Henry's name and replace it with any other name in the country he'd still have those reasons listed thus I read them to be a blanket statement. If the post said "for Henry's skillset there's better coaching" that would be saying there's better coaching for Henry. Saying "You play more real game minutes in the NBA, more practice times, better coaching, better competition, better health and training programs, etc." That is a general statement as to why someone would leave to the NBA not specific to Henry. 

You still don't get it.  Honestly at this point it has become almost whimsical.  I will explain it one more time.

Henry (or any other player) is going to be prepared better for the NBA game by NBA coaches than by college coaches. 

OK.  So do we have that?  That doesn't mean that a college coach can't be successful in the NBA.  It doesn't mean that and NBA coach can't flame out in college.

Is this where I am supposed to be ashamed for being an athlete and quite the accomplished one? What have you done in your life in sports? High school sports shrine like Ners?

Oh brother...

Do you act like a dick to football or hockey players too for the hits they take?

Only when they back up their nonsensical, out-of-context posts with referencing my wife and kids.  Really out of desperation more than anything I think.

[BM1090]

He's the one that made it personal.  I am simply responding in kind.

I missed the personal attack on his end. Fair enough.

[Galway Eagle]

I curse constantly.  It isn't an indicator of my anger.

You still don't get it.  Honestly at this point it has become almost whimsical.  I will explain it one more time.

Henry (or any other player) is going to be prepared better for the NBA game by NBA coaches than by college coaches. 

OK.  So do we have that?  That doesn't mean that a college coach can't be successful in the NBA.  It doesn't mean that and NBA coach can't flame out in college.


Oh brother...


Only when they back up their nonsensical, out-of-context posts with referencing my wife and kids.

Sorry for misinterpreting that, I generally do not and when I saw that I got defensive.

I'm glad that I'm adding to your whims. 

I agree with that point about being better prepared for the NBA game by NBA coaches. Ok? That's not where we veer off. I read the original post as saying that NBA coaches are better than college coaches and I disagree. I agree that they'll all obviously get a player, who's clearly going to the NBA, better ready for the NBA than a college coach would. But not every player is going to the NBA, and because I did not read that statement as directly about Henry, I felt it warranted someone disagreeing.

I agree that college coaches can be successful and visa versa. 

Oh brother is a pretty lame response. I guess that means I should be ashamed for being an athlete?

Once again I apologize for that original comment I felt defensive when you started dropping the F bomb and all these ???? and capitalized words. Clearly that's who you are not you conveying anger or anything and I apologize for turning that into a personal argument. 

[keefe]

MUScoop...God help me but I love it so...

[brandx]

2.  Green is a horrible example. He didn't got pro cause it didn't make sense. He was averaging 3.3 points as a freshman and less than 13 as a junior. He was never a candidate to leave early. And based on my limited knowledge of his personality I would guess he would've left as soon as he was guaranteed for the lottery.

Green is an interesting example as he averaged 16/10 his senior year - same as Henry is averaging this year.

Interesting in that Green was seen as a low ceiling player (rightly so) - a sub 6'6" power forward.

No comparison in how they were/are looked at by the NBA - Ellenson as a high lottery pick and Green as an afterthought. If they had played at the same time EVERY GM would have had Henry rated much, much higher.

But experts don't always get it right. I don't expect that now, even one GM sees Henry turning out as good as Draymon.

[🏀]

Draymond Green on the 76ers ain't chit.

[martyconlonontherun]

Thanks.

Plus, NBA assistant coaches are all about coaching all of the time. College assistants spend a significant amount of time recruiting, much of it on the road.

That is the biggest difference I think. A great assistant in college usually means he is a great recruiter.

Looking at the Bucks staff you just see how much experience they have compared to a second tier college program like Marquette (Don't take that as an insult, just realistic we aren't the blue bloods of the nation). The average NBA staff has 1. More experienced coaches and 2. coaches that don't focus on recruiting 50% of the time. Yeah, it's an opinion you get better coaching at the NBA level, but it is a well-backed opinion.

Greg Foster (Assistant for 14 years, former player), Tim Grgurich (former College Head Coach, Defensive specialist, 40 Years of experience), Eric Hughes (ok not much experience), Josh Oppenheimer (Shot doctor, well respected in the league), Joe Prunty (15 years as a pro assistant), Sean Sweeney (Tape guy, moving up quickly)

Steve Wojciechowski   Chris Carrawell      3 years as an assistant in the dleague
Stan Johnson      
Brett Nelson      
Justin Gainey      
Travis Diener      
Jake Presutti      
Tyler Thornton      

[Class71]

I know everyone is interested in what HE does next year but I am more interested in what he does this year. Actually what MU does this year. Whatever he does I hope he makes the right decision from him but my focus is MU not one player who may or may not stay for more than one year.

[WarriorPride68]

Henry Ellenson is up to 4 on Chad Ford's latest draft projection (need to be an Insider)

I hadn't seen this before. Hard to fault him for leaving. Kids going to be a millionaire barring injury.

[MU82]

I hadn't seen this before. Hard to fault him for leaving. Kids going to be a millionaire barring injury.

He hasn't left yet.

[WarriorPride68]

He hasn't left yet.

BREAKING NEWS

[wadesworld]

He gowne.

[DegenerateDish]

One thing a lot of people are ignoring here:

The 2016 draft is extremely weak. The 2017 draft is loaded.

[LloydsLegs]

Spent 20 minutes talking post nova game with member of the staff, mostly about the game and his enjoying MU etc.  When talking about the good direction of the program he volunteered simply that "it's too bad Henry will be gone next year."  Not even a question.

[statnik]

Henry Ellenson is not coming back next year.

He should, he's surely not ready for the NBA based on his season so far.  Maybe something drastically changes in the 2nd half of the season.

[wadesworld]

He should, he's surely not ready for the NBA based on his season so far.  Maybe something drastically changes in the 2nd half of the season.

You mean his 3rd leading scoring in arguably the top conference in the country?  Or his leading rebounding in arguably the top conference in the country?  Or what part of his game isn't ready for the NBA "based on his season so far?"

[wadesworld]

One thing a lot of people are ignoring here:

The 2016 draft is extremely weak. The 2017 draft is loaded.

I actually don't think that will be a big factor in his decision, nor do I think it should be.  Henry's a 6'11", well built kid who just turned 19 years old and can handle the ball like a point guard and has (inconsistent right now, but he's 19 and has plenty of time to develop it) range out to 20 feet.  He's averaging a double double on the season and has NBA scouts and GMs drooling.  I think Hank would've been a top 10 pick in last year's draft if he could've been, will be a top 10 pick in this year's draft, and would be a top 10 pick next year if needed.

What I think people are ignoring is that even if his parents make a healthy household income (say $150K, which I doubt they make but let's just say they do), sure they'll live comfortably in Rice Lake, WI.  But there's a huge difference between that and Hank making 10x that next year, and being 1 year closer to his 2nd contract, which is what really matters.  Plus risking injury and having to go to classes for another year.  Oh and reaching the pinnacle of your chosen profession, playing with and against the best of the best at what you do every single night, whether in practice or in games.

He gowne.

[MUfan12]

At this point, he can't make a pro three, or guard a pro power forward.

But it won't matter. The potential is there, and it's a weak draft. He's gone.

[The Lens]

To all the tin-hatters who think Henry is staying...what do you do during game broadcasters when the announcers refer to him as a 2016 Lottery Pick?

[GGGG]

I actually don't think that will be a big factor in his decision, nor do I think it should be. 

Of course it should be.  It makes his draft position higher and will hit free agency with a comparatively weaker group when it all plays out.

[4everwarriors]

Henry and his family aren't idiots. He's no different than the rest of us. We all went to college to enable us to make a livin'. Took most of us 4+ years. Henry will do that in 1. Bye, bye, ai na?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Henry is a lottery pick. There is no doubt of that. History overwhelmingly suggests that he will go pro. These things are hard to deny.  But unless you have had heard from Henry himself ( you cleaning his teeth 4ever?), you don't know crapt. From everything I've heard, Henry himself hasn't decided.

Do I think he'll stay? Nope. But that's an opinion, not a fact.

[wadesworld]

Of course it should be.  It makes his draft position higher and will hit free agency with a comparatively weaker group when it all plays out.

I don't think it should influence his decision 1 bit.  He's a top 10 pick this year or next year.  He would've been last year.  You take the money and run regardless of whether the group you're going in with is weak or strong.  You worry about the group of players you are competing with for free agency money when you get to that bridge.

If every player in each class from next year and this year flip flopped years other than Henry, he'd be a top 10 pick this year and should be gone.  There is no point in waiting around for a "weaker" draft class unless you're in the 20-40 range (the potential difference between first round guaranteed money and no contract at all).  When you're top 10 you go as soon as you can.

[CTWarrior]

I actually don't think that will be a big factor in his decision, nor do I think it should be.  Henry's a 6'11", well built kid who just turned 19 years old and can handle the ball like a point guard and has (inconsistent right now, but he's 19 and has plenty of time to develop it) range out to 20 feet.  He's averaging a double double on the season and has NBA scouts and GMs drooling.  I think Hank would've been a top 10 pick in last year's draft if he could've been, will be a top 10 pick in this year's draft, and would be a top 10 pick next year if needed.

What I think people are ignoring is that even if his parents make a healthy household income (say $150K, which I doubt they make but let's just say they do), sure they'll live comfortably in Rice Lake, WI.  But there's a huge difference between that and Hank making 10x that next year, and being 1 year closer to his 2nd contract, which is what really matters.  Plus risking injury and having to go to classes for another year.  Oh and reaching the pinnacle of your chosen profession, playing with and against the best of the best at what you do every single night, whether in practice or in games.

He gowne.

I agree he's gone (you don't just don't pass up being a lottery pick), but right now I don't consider him well-built, he handles the ball well for a big guy but not remotely close to "like a point guard" and he certainly has not demonstrated that he has range to 20 feet.  I keep hearing him described as athletic (he isn't NBA athletic) a great passer (again I don't see it).   He doesn't really have a low post game, either.  He's not a good defender, as well.

Despite all of the above, he is still very productive and the kid just oozes potential.  While he isn't well-built now, he has a great frame and will undoubtedly become much stronger.  He doesn't look like a great shooter just yet, but he has a nice mid-range touch, squares up nicely and has solid form and I don't doubt that he will eventually be an excellent shooter.  He has the right intangibles (a nose for the ball and he sees the floor well,) but he has to learn (and will, I'm sure) what passes he will and won't be able to make.  We didn't do him any favors with the steady diet of cupcakes in the non-con, which allowed him to play very well on his ability alone.

So those of you who say he isn't ready for the NBA right now I tend to agree with you, but he is so close in so many areas that it isn't a stretch at all to see him as a solid NBA regular in a couple years and maybe more than that down the road.  All the building blocks are there, and he seems to be a kid with his head on straight.

[wadesworld]

I agree he's gone (you don't just don't pass up being a lottery pick), but right now I don't consider him well-built, he handles the ball well for a big guy but not remotely close to "like a point guard" and he certainly has not demonstrated that he has range to 20 feet.  I keep hearing him described as athletic (he isn't NBA athletic) a great passer (again I don't see it).   He doesn't really have a low post game, either.  He's not a good defender, as well.

Despite all of the above, he is still very productive and the kid just oozes potential.  While he isn't well-built now, he has a great frame and will undoubtedly become much stronger.  He doesn't look like a great shooter just yet, but he has a nice mid-range touch, squares up nicely and has solid form and I don't doubt that he will eventually be an excellent shooter.  He has the right intangibles (a nose for the ball and he sees the floor well,) but he has to learn (and will, I'm sure) what passes he will and won't be able to make.  We didn't do him any favors with the steady diet of cupcakes in the non-con, which allowed him to play very well on his ability alone.

So those of you who say he isn't ready for the NBA right now I tend to agree with you, but he is so close in so many areas that it isn't a stretch at all to see him as a solid NBA regular in a couple years and maybe more than that down the road.  All the building blocks are there, and he seems to be a kid with his head on straight.

We can agree to disagree on a lot of this, but he absolutely has shown range out to 20 feet.  Like I said, it has been inconsistent, but he turned 19 years old yesterday and has a lot of time to develop that part of his game.  But to say "he certainly has not demonstrated that he has range to 20 feet" is wrong.  The college 3 point line is 20 feet 9 inches from the hoop.  He has made 14 3 pointers this season.  Again, it's inconsistent, but he has shown he has range out to 20 feet.  And it's only going to develop further.

You essentially just said that right now he does nothing well besides shoot from the mid range (doesn't shoot well from deep, doesn't have a post game, handles the ball well only compared to big men, isn't a good passer, isn't athletic, isn't physical)...yet he's the 4th highest scorer in the Big East and the leading rebounder in the Big East, arguably the best conference in America.  Something's gotta give...