Vaccinations & Antibodies

[Lennys Tap]

Hero worship of police due to propaganda.

BLM, riots, looting and a movement to defund them was all about hero worship? Maybe you have the police confused with somebody else.

[Pakuni]

BLM, riots, looting and a movement to defund them was all about hero worship? Maybe you have the police confused with somebody else.

Actually, yes. The things you speak of all are direct results of decades of police malfeasance that's gone largely unchecked by a society that has fetishized law enforcement and given them ever-increasing powers without much question. Protests, riots, etc., are spontaneous events occurring without reason.
Contrary to the hero narrative, cops are just people doing a job. A difficult job. An important job. Occasionally a dangerous job. But still, a job. While some perform heroic actions, they're not heroes on account of their profession.
And we've made them that, to the degree that some people see it as a great affront to even criticize police (imagine being the kind of person who gets very upset about socks), to question their role in society or to question how much of our public resources should go to policing.

[Lennys Tap]

Actually, yes. The things you speak of all are direct results of decades of police malfeasance that's gone largely unchecked by a society that has fetishized law enforcement and given them ever-increasing powers without much question. Protests, riots, etc., are spontaneous events occurring without reason.
Contrary to the hero narrative, cops are just people doing a job. A difficult job. An important job. Occasionally a dangerous job. But still, a job. While some perform heroic actions, they're not heroes on account of their profession.
And we've made them that, to the degree that some people see it as a great affront to even criticize police (imagine being the kind of person who gets very upset about socks), to question their role in society or to question how much of our public resources should go to policing.

Anybody who thinks cops are (because of their profession) heroes and above criticism is an idiot. In my entire life I’ve never once encountered anyone who espoused this.

And anybody who wants “dead cops now” or wants them defunded is an idiot. In my entire life I’ve never once encountered anyone who espouses this either.

I’m sure people like this exist but they are way on the fringes. Suggesting either attitude isn’t extremely rare is silly but it makes for a great strawmen.

[Hards Alumni]

Anybody who thinks cops are (because of their profession) heroes and above criticism is an idiot. In my entire life I’ve never once encountered anyone who espoused this.

And anybody who wants “dead cops now” or wants them defunded is an idiot. In my entire life I’ve never once encountered anyone who espouses this either.

I’m sure people like this exist but they are way on the fringes. Suggesting either attitude isn’t extremely rare is silly but it makes for a great strawmen.

You need to get out more then, I guess.  I know both types.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

My meaningless statistic following your two meaningless statistics.

Just having a little fun.

Nope. You countered his completely relevant stat, with a stat on an issue completely unrelated to the conversation.

[ATL MU Warrior]

87% of cops are male.
76% of teachers (and 89% of elementary school teachers) are female.

Police protect mommy and daddy’s little angels. Mommy and Daddy’s little angels do bad in school because their teachers suck.

[mu_hilltopper]

Boosted on Wednesday.  Had done two Pfizers, did a Moderna booster.   

Was tired the next day, but that's all.

[Hards Alumni]

Boosted on Wednesday.  Had done two Pfizers, did a Moderna booster.   

Was tired the next day, but that's all.

Hey, we can't say you're not trying.   

[tower912]

If you are eligible for the booster, get it.   It is going to be a long winter.

[forgetful]

If you are eligible for the booster, get it.   It is going to be a long winter.

100% this. Also, if you've had COVID and haven't gotten vaccinated. Get vaccinated. If you are that worried about the vaccine. Ask for the 1/2 Moderna dose (booster).

Breakthrough Delta, or reinfection with delta is no walk in the park.

[Lennys Tap]

Police protect mommy and daddy’s little angels. Mommy and Daddy’s little angels do bad in school because their teachers suck.

Said nobody ever.

[ATL MU Warrior]

Said nobody ever.

You clearly are well past the child rearing stage of your life and probably have little exposure to parents of small children outside of your family. So why don’t you sit this one out?

[statnik]

https://www.clarkcountytoday.com/news/israeli-study-shows-natural-immunity-delivers-13-times-more-protection-than-covid-vaccines/

At best it seems the science of vaccines vs natural immunity is unsettled, contrary to the CDC findings (though even their points are more emphasizing the wide variance of protection among the naturally immune, not that it’s inferior to vaccines.  There was a similar result in an India study to this one that I’ll post in a moment.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

https://www.clarkcountytoday.com/news/israeli-study-shows-natural-immunity-delivers-13-times-more-protection-than-covid-vaccines/

At best it seems the science of vaccines vs natural immunity is unsettled, contrary to the CDC findings (though even their points are more emphasizing the wide variance of protection among the naturally immune, not that it’s inferior to vaccines.  There was a similar result in an India study to this one that I’ll post in a moment.

What do you mean by "contrary to CDC findings."  As you state, they haven't made a statement that vaccines are superior to natural immunity at all.  They simply state that even if you have had Covid, you should be vaccinated because the level of protection varies with natural immunity.

So just get the shot and stop insinuating its not safe.  It's completely safe for the vast, vast majority of people out there. 

[Uncle Rico]

https://www.clarkcountytoday.com/news/israeli-study-shows-natural-immunity-delivers-13-times-more-protection-than-covid-vaccines/

At best it seems the science of vaccines vs natural immunity is unsettled, contrary to the CDC findings (though even their points are more emphasizing the wide variance of protection among the naturally immune, not that it’s inferior to vaccines.  There was a similar result in an India study to this one that I’ll post in a moment.

Why do you have a weekend and weekday account?

[Pakuni]

https://www.clarkcountytoday.com/news/israeli-study-shows-natural-immunity-delivers-13-times-more-protection-than-covid-vaccines/

At best it seems the science of vaccines vs natural immunity is unsettled, contrary to the CDC findings (though even their points are more emphasizing the wide variance of protection among the naturally immune, not that it’s inferior to vaccines.  There was a similar result in an India study to this one that I’ll post in a moment.

But, so what?
The researchers also say:
1. It's a terrible idea to intentionally become infected in hopes of natural immunity, because you're exposing yourself to the possibility of serious illness, hospitalization or even death. 
2. The combination of vaccination and natural immunity is far better than just natural immunity, so people should get vaccinated regardless.

Lastly, while 13 times greater sounds like a lot, the numbers in the study are quite small.

For instance, the higher hospitalization rate in the 32,000-person analysis was based on just eight hospitalizations in a vaccinated group and one in a previously infected group. And the 13-fold increased risk of infection in the same analysis was based on just 238 infections in the vaccinated population, less than 1.5% of the more than 16,000 people, versus 19 reinfections among a similar number of people who once had SARS-CoV-2.
https://www.science.org/content/article/having-sars-cov-2-once-confers-much-greater-immunity-vaccine-vaccination-remains-vital

[statnik]

But, so what?
The researchers also say:
1. It's a terrible idea to intentionally become infected in hopes of natural immunity, because you're exposing yourself to the possibility of serious illness, hospitalization or even death. 
2. The combination of vaccination and natural immunity is far better than just natural immunity, so people should get vaccinated regardless.

Lastly, while 13 times greater sounds like a lot, the numbers in the study are quite small.

For instance, the higher hospitalization rate in the 32,000-person analysis was based on just eight hospitalizations in a vaccinated group and one in a previously infected group. And the 13-fold increased risk of infection in the same analysis was based on just 238 infections in the vaccinated population, less than 1.5% of the more than 16,000 people, versus 19 reinfections among a similar number of people who once had SARS-CoV-2.
https://www.science.org/content/article/having-sars-cov-2-once-confers-much-greater-immunity-vaccine-vaccination-remains-vital

That people who can prove via a recent antibody test that they have immunity at that point be treated the same way as vaccinated individuals especially since many of those who were vaccinated six months ago or more but haven’t had a booster have waning antibodies.

[Pakuni]

That people who can prove via a recent antibody test that they have immunity at that point be treated the same way as vaccinated individuals especially since many of those who were vaccinated six months ago or more but haven’t had a booster have waning antibodies.

Where's the evidence that people with prior infections are less likely to spread?
Also, the evidence suggests that while vaccine effectiveness begins to wane after about six  months, natural immunity wanes even faster, in as little as half that time.
So, we're really back at square one. All the evidence, including from the Israeli study, is that it's better to be vaccinated, whether you've had a previous infection or not.
But I think we can agree that booster shots are a good idea, right?

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

That people who can prove via a recent antibody test that they have immunity at that point be treated the same way as vaccinated individuals especially since many of those who were vaccinated six months ago or more but haven’t had a booster have waning antibodies.

A positive antibody test only indicates an immune response has occurred.  It doesn't indicate that you are currently immune enough not to be infected again.  Straight from the FDA:

"At this time, do not interpret the results of qualitative, semi-quantitative, or quantitative SARS-CoV-2 antibody tests as an indication of a specific level of immunity or protection from SARS-CoV-2 infection after the person has received a COVID-19 vaccination. While a positive antibody test can indicate an immune response has occurred (seroconversion), and failure to detect such a response may suggest a lack of immune response, more research is needed. Currently authorized SARS-CoV-2 antibody tests are not validated to evaluate specific immunity or protection from SARS-CoV-2 infection. SARS-CoV-2 antibody tests should be ordered only by health care providers who are familiar with the use and limitations of the test. For more information about antibody tests for SARS-CoV-2, see Serology/Antibody Tests: FAQs on Testing for SARS-CoV-2."


Stop spreading misinformation.

[statnik]

A positive antibody test only indicates an immune response has occurred.  It doesn't indicate that you are currently immune enough not to be infected again.  Straight from the FDA:

"At this time, do not interpret the results of qualitative, semi-quantitative, or quantitative SARS-CoV-2 antibody tests as an indication of a specific level of immunity or protection from SARS-CoV-2 infection after the person has received a COVID-19 vaccination. While a positive antibody test can indicate an immune response has occurred (seroconversion), and failure to detect such a response may suggest a lack of immune response, more research is needed. Currently authorized SARS-CoV-2 antibody tests are not validated to evaluate specific immunity or protection from SARS-CoV-2 infection. SARS-CoV-2 antibody tests should be ordered only by health care providers who are familiar with the use and limitations of the test. For more information about antibody tests for SARS-CoV-2, see Serology/Antibody Tests: FAQs on Testing for SARS-CoV-2."


Stop spreading misinformation.

Look at how well the vaxxed players are spreading COVID in the NBA.  It’s ripped through much of the 76ers team.  If you’re giving me that response to people with antibodies it’s only fair to point out the flaws with our current policies and how the vaxxed are spreading too.

[Hards Alumni]

Look at how well the vaxxed players are spreading COVID in the NBA.  It’s ripped through much of the 76ers team.  If you’re giving me that response to people with antibodies it’s only fair to point out the flaws with our current policies and how the vaxxed are spreading too.

You're implying that you thought vaxxed people can't spread covid.  If you didn't know that the vaccinated can still spread covid, then that is on you.

The ONLY thing the vaccine is for is to lower the hospitalization rate and mortality rate.

Anything else is something you've created in your own mind.

[Pakuni]

Look at how well the vaxxed players are spreading COVID in the NBA.  It’s ripped through much of the 76ers team.  If you’re giving me that response to people with antibodies it’s only fair to point out the flaws with our current policies and how the vaxxed are spreading too.

"Vaccination is 100 percent effective against infection," said Nobody Ever.

You're essentially arguing that seat belts are ineffective because people wearing them still get into crashes.

[statnik]

You're implying that you thought vaxxed people can't spread covid.  If you didn't know that the vaccinated can still spread covid, then that is on you.

The ONLY thing the vaccine is for is to lower the hospitalization rate and mortality rate.

Anything else is something you've created in your own mind.

Isn’t that why many of the vaccinated are upset about others around them not being vaxxed?  The spreading aspect is at least one but it’s not a big difference I’d wager at this point, especially since a lot of the vaccinated have not received their boosters yet.  If it was only about preventing severe infection and death then others should not care about a particular person’s vaccine status unless they’re in poor health.

[cheebs09]

Isn’t that why many of the vaccinated are upset about others around them not being vaxxed?  The spreading aspect is at least one but it’s not a big difference I’d wager at this point, especially since a lot of the vaccinated have not received their boosters yet.  If it was only about preventing severe infection and death then others should not care about a particular person’s vaccine status unless they’re in poor health.

If you’re vaccinated, you have a much lesser chance of getting COVID. Thus, a much lesser chance of spreading it. I don’t get why this is so hard.

[jesmu84]

If you’re vaccinated, you have a much lesser chance of getting COVID. Thus, a much lesser chance of spreading it. I don’t get why this is so hard.

Yup. Lower chance of spread means less community cases means reducing risk for those who can't be vaccinated AND reduces chances of further mutated strains.

The vaccine can have multiple good effects. It doesn't have to be just ONE reason to support vaccines despite what statnik wants us to think