Marquette embarrassed themselves today

[NavinRJohnson]

So if we win next week, will we get the 5 seed so we can play them again (assuming we win our first)?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Both in their play and their behavior. The tone was set early in the game by Crean's complete over-reaction to a harmless shove -- the type of contact that happens 15 times a game.

There was more, but I won't go into it.

Just awful.

Oh please...Al McGuire would have done the same thing.  He defended his players like any coach should have.  Good grief.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Crean embarassed Marquette today.

Can anyone say bubble?

Nice example coach.  As in many past years, the team is burning out at the end of the season.

Wasn't Blackledge going to be the big that we so need?

Shocking, 2nd post and this crap comes out.  Bubble...please.

The worst we can finish in our last 10 is 4-6
22 wins at worse
Top 35 schedule in the country

We have wins over these NCAA teams

@ Louisville
@ Pitt
Duke on neutral court


We have wins over these NCAA Bubble Teams

Texas Tech
West Virginia
Villanova
Providence

RPI in the top 35

We are a lock, get over it.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I really wonder sometimes what some people are seeing when they respond the way they do.

Notre Dame has won 18 home games in a row and are heading to the NCAA tournament.  You read some of the crap on this board and you would think we lost to UWM or something at home.

When we lost at Georgetown, same crap.  G'Town has won 11 in a row right now and may be one of the top 5 teams in the country at this point.

It's the Big East folks, every game is going to be tough...road games especially.  We're 9-6 and have a shot to sweep Pitt this Saturday.  We've won 22 games....take a breath.

And the comments that you've never seen a MU team act like this before...how long have some of you been watching MU...2 years?   Anyone remember the MU vs Northwestern game in the 1980's?  Anyone remember Ryan Amoroso on the free throw line against Louisville.  Anyone remember Al McGuire sticking up for his guys and picking up more than his share of technical fouls?  Come on people.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Chicos -- people do remember those games and individual performances (Amo vs. Louis.) and were embarrassed by them.

But if you think McGuire would have gone ape over a harmless shove, you're nuts. That was a ridiculous reaction by Crean. I have a hard time believing how anybody watching the game could think otherwise.

[MUCam]

So what if he over-reacted? Is it truly that embarrasing? Or is it just another feather in your "anti-crean" cap? Take a step back and answer that question in all honesty. I think you'll find that in the big picture, that "over-reaction" by Crean may not have been as big a deal as you make it out to be.

P.S. And while you are touting the moral high horse flag, there are indications that after McNeal fell to the floor, ND fans pelted him with a water bottle. This is corroborated by the fact that the announcer at the game told ND fans to not throw items at the players or on the court immediately after the mix-up. Would it be overreacting to become hysterical about one of your players being hit with a water bottle? Perhaps, before you overreact and jump to conclusions, you should get ALL the facts.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Funny that Crean mentioned nothing of the sort. He mentioned only the nudge.

I point out Crean's meltdown because if affected the way MU played. To that point, we were playing well. In fact, we may have been up by about 10 at that point. After that, it was downhill as we lost all composure.

If you are proud of the way Marquette handled itself today, good for you.

[MUCam]

"I point out Crean's meltdown because if affected the way MU played. To that point, we were playing well. In fact, we may have been up by about 10 at that point. After that, it was downhill as we lost all composure."

- To an extent, I don't disagree with this. But, what about that is embarrassing? Was his conduct embarrassing, or was it just not good for the momentum in the game? Which one is it? If we are sticking to whether the conduct was shameful and embarrassing, then what relevance is there to how it affected the game? Would it make it less shameful and embarrassing if we would have blown ND out?

Let's stick to crux of your initial post, shall we?

[bma725]

I point out Crean's meltdown because if affected the way MU played. To that point, we were playing well. In fact, we may have been up by about 10 at that point. After that, it was downhill as we lost all composure.

Once again you miss the fact that it didn't change the way the team played, they in fact played better immediately after it happened.  MU was up 9 before Crean's outburst.  For the next 6 minutes of game time, MU's lead was never lower than that, and they in fact extended at one point to 13. 

The game didn't go downhill until later, when ND started making the shots they had previously been missing, not because MU suddenely losing composure.

[77fan88warrior]

I was at the game and Harangody was not going to help McNeal up. He turned around to talk smack. The officials had no control over the game and we should be happy no one got hurt. The 2nd foul on Barro was cheap and it occurred two minutes into the game. That hurt us huge. When was the last time you saw 2 stoppages in play not related to the clock, foul, or injury? It was ridiculous that there was no call related the Crean- bench episode. Call a double t or something.Go ahead and bitch at Crean for the DJ stand around and dribble offense that we saw for the 25 minutes of the game. Have you ever seen a stoppage in play because players on a bench are standing up? The officiating in Conference USA was better than what I have seen the last couple of weeks.That includes the ridiculous calls in our favor against Villanova. I don't know how you can blame DJ or Fitz for what they did. ND was trying to push us around and they weren't willing to take it. I think this team comes back stronger than if they laid down for some of the crap Notre Dame was pulling.

[TallTitan34]

Crean embarassed no one.

[nathanziarek]

Yeah, ridiculous to think that a coach standing up for a player is embarrassing himself.

The game was physical and the refs had no control. The big freshman did nothing but drop his shoulder and charge in all game. I saw more childish shoves during this game than I've ever seen at a college game. How many times were there clear fouls that didn't get whistled until well after it occurred?

Marquette was frustrated this game because we simply couldn't match the physicality of ND and the refs were allowing it (while calling the ticky-tack fouls -- remember the days of Cincy and Huggybear?).

No embarrassment. Just a loss that should have been ours. MU was the better team.

[Pardner]

Big East refs = Big 10 refs....they allow low fouls/body checks on and off the ball, always call any appearance of an arm/hand foul on shots or dribbles, let scrums and loose ball scrambles play out, anticpate calls (good for bigs, bad if you have speed players), are widely judgmental on offensive/blocking calls, are inconsistent within a crew and game, and always slant to the home team.  I actually liked that Coach Crean got on them on the road.  I think he should work them more, but maybe in Coach K fashion.  My favorite with this crew yesterday was that they actually stopped play during a MU possession to tell our "bench to sit down".  What?   That warning couldn't have come during a stop in action or by a side official on the way back down court?  It had to happen during a DJ drive to the hoop?  Brutal crew but the Villanova (edge MU) and DePaul (edge DU) crews were just as bad.  MU, with their four guards, will be better off in the NCAA's if they get a mix of Pac 10, ACC or SEC officials where they are used to more quickness, speed or balance.  That said, we should also know what we are going to get on the road in the Big East.  Crean did not make a spectacle...he stood up to a crew who were not giving him calls...remember, that at that time, MU had a big lead most of the half but we had 100% less free throw attempts with our guards driving to the hoop time after time.  Crean should have jumped on them at that time as he knew he needed the free throws on the road after our run ended.

[nathanziarek]

Thanks for that. I've always been at a loss to describe it, but that is the foul situation and why we don't "get" the calls. I hate blaming officiating, and figured it was something more about the structure of the team / coaching. That pretty much sums up what we are seeing and does work against us more than, well, any team with a big

[Big Papi]

Crean embarassed Marquette today.

Can anyone say bubble?

Nice example coach.  As in many past years, the team is burning out at the end of the season.

Wasn't Blackledge going to be the big that we so need?

First of all we didn't burn out last year.  We won four out of our last 5 regular season games so no burn out.

Second, where did anyone say Blackledge was the answer.  He was a very raw athletic kid who really needed a redshirt year this year but we didn't know if we needed the body so he wasn't redshirted.  If he is with the team next year (dependent on if Blackledge and if he improves his grades) he will likely be redshirted next year.  Far from the "big that we so need"

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Funny that Crean mentioned nothing of the sort. He mentioned only the nudge.

I point out Crean's meltdown because if affected the way MU played. To that point, we were playing well. In fact, we may have been up by about 10 at that point. After that, it was downhill as we lost all composure.

If you are proud of the way Marquette handled itself today, good for you.

I guess we will never know what Al would or wouldn't have done because he's not around anymore.

But, I think it's fairly safe to say that there were plenty of people back in Al's day who didn't like his tactics and probably hated him just like people seem to dislike Crean (cough, PRN, cough cough).

I for one like Crean's fire on the bench. This is a road conference game against a rival. He should be fired up and lead the team in such a manner.

I think Al himself said it best (I'm paraphrasing the exact quote):

"When you win, you are eccentic, when you lose, you are nuts."



 

[muwarrior87]

You people are full of crap, there is no way marquette is a bubble team after a loss to a top 25 ranked team on the road. They are still a very strong team and when they're playing against a bunch of goons and classless punks in ND, it is kind of hard not to get fired up. I was at the game and I, for one, didn't see anything that MU did that was embarassing. Also, it's really hard to win when three solid players, two stars, have 3 fouls at half and 14 team fouls after the first half. The officiating was extremely inconsistant and very one sided. This is also the opinion of multiple followers of ND that I know in the South Bend area. They said, "it's not hard to figure out why they're undefeated at home when games end up like that." This is referring to the fact that it was like MU was playing against 8 men on the court.

While the refs did make up the foul disparity somewhat in the second half, it is really hard to rebound as a team when you can't play aggressive defense for fear of getting a cheap touch foul called on you.

Also, I loved to see Crean so passionate about the cheap hits on players that ND was making. This game gives me even more reason to hate ND basketball and their fan section filled with tools...throwing bottles at Jerel after he's clobbered right in front of the student section...that is embarassing, certainly glad I'm not represented by any of those notre dame pricks

[ChicosBailBonds]

Chicos -- people do remember those games and individual performances (Amo vs. Louis.) and were embarrassed by them.

But if you think McGuire would have gone ape over a harmless shove, you're nuts. That was a ridiculous reaction by Crean. I have a hard time believing how anybody watching the game could think otherwise.

You may want to watch the 1974 NCAA game again and how Al acted and got a technical foul....emotion is emotion and sometimes it gets the best of us.

Al defended his players.  Tom defends his.  That is part of he role of a coach.

[rugbydrummer]

They are still a very strong team and when they're playing against a bunch of goons and classless punks in ND, it is kind of hard not to get fired up. I was at the game and I, for one, didn't see anything that MU did that was embarassing.

Thank you for saying that--I think everyone's just been taking this really hard because we have such high expectations for our team, which, when it is playing good, can beat every team in the nation.  However, I think something our boys struggle with is consistency and I also believe they are still young and developing, so the two are correlated.  Don't get me wrong, they have done fantastic and I have nothing but admiration & support for them. But I think we also suffer from contagious demoralizing mentality syndrome--when the going gets tough, we sometimes fall apart.  It also doesn't help when we have way too many fouls.... ::sigh::. 

That being said, I have a bad taste in my mouth from the last two supposed "Catholic" universities we have played.  I'm not quite sure what ND or DePaul's official view on sportsmanship is because they sure do not have any to begin with, players or fans.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure it's no credit to you if the way you win is by thugging it up on the court (Harangody & Carter). It's also no credit to "win 18 straight @ home" when the refs are in Brey's back pocket.  Anyone else notice the phantom foul that got called for ND once MU was up about 10-0? Or the fake "blocking/shooting foul" on Ous w/ no hacking/hardly any body contact?

No one likes a bully.  Good for TC for getting in the refs face--if they aren't protecting the players, they aren't doing their job. I don't care if Harangody's foul on Jerel looked worse than it was, Jerel took a faceplant into the stanchion, which would not have happened if not for thugboy.  I've no problem with physical play--ND was reminiscent of times we've played Memphis (who wasn't ANY better)--but at least they kept it to the hardwood and not stupid acting or flippant shoves.

  I hope ND gets complacent and then gets blasted out of the water by whomever they play first @ MSQ when they are without their crooked refs and their rowdy fan base.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Chicos -- people do remember those games and individual performances (Amo vs. Louis.) and were embarrassed by them.

But if you think McGuire would have gone ape over a harmless shove, you're nuts. That was a ridiculous reaction by Crean. I have a hard time believing how anybody watching the game could think otherwise.

You may want to watch the 1974 NCAA game again and how Al acted and got a technical foul....emotion is emotion and sometimes it gets the best of us.

Al defended his players.  Tom defends his.  That is part of he role of a coach.

Thanks for the history lesson -- I am fully aware of the events that transpired in the 1974 Final. What you fail to mention is that Al repeatedly said he was embarrassed by that technical foul and that it may have cost MU the game.

Also, your comparisons of this team to those in 1974 and 1977 are a bit a stretch, don't you think?

[Marquette84]

What I do have an issue with is Crean.  I've never seen him act like that and am shocked he didn't get a T.  Why did he so overreact?  We were up big and had the game in control.  We were already wired so it wasn't to get his team going at all - if anything, I think it fired up ND.  I think he just blew a gasket and it cost the team.

First, recall that Al McGuire embarassed the universtiy and cost his team a game as well.  Stakes were  just a tad bit higher, as well. . . only the National Championship at stake:

“I would say that I lost the game there. I would say that
I gave them two five-point plays and that was it. I had a bad day.”

For all of you who say that Crean "embarassed" MU, please show your consistency by  criticizing Al McGuire for his behavior as well.

Second, I'd like to know for all those who felt this was an overecation to tell us what  was said/done at that moment.  You obviously were on the bench or on the court to know that what transpired didn't deserve the reaction--yet, the only comments seem to be the type only those watching on television could make.  So please, enlighten us on the exact mood from the bench.

Third, please explain why you're so quick to blame Tom rather than giving him the benefit of the doubt.  If this is the most upset he's been in eight years, doesn't that suggest that there just might be more to the story than what you saw on television?  It seems obvious to me that there must have been some serious issue to cause Crean to get so irate--yet here we have OUR fans rushing to judgement, opposing OUR coach.

Fourth, given that there does seem to be something more serious at hand, do you suppose there's a wee possibility that the players might lose some respect for Crean if he HADN'T stood up for his players at that moment?  I'm sure he could have turned Seth Greenberg simply said that today his players were the tree, and someday they'd be the dog.  Or become Bob Dukeit and gone back to ask for help re-rolling his program rather than standing up to the officials.  It's not like Crean ran 10 rows into the stands and earned a first-ever NCAA suspension.

Nope, Crean made it a point to stand up for his players--and that builds respect, even if those who are pre-disposed to dislike him get on their high-horse and moralize about how he "overreacted."