MU / UW rivalry ?

[MilTown]

Ok, I know I am going to probably get killed on this post, but here it goes anyway. I'm a little bit in the dark about the MU vs. UW rivalry. I understand that the schools are in the same state, but other than that, how did this rivalry get started and what else besides the basketball rivalry causes so much animosity towards UW. I was born, raised and currently living in Chicago, so that alone might explain why I don't understand. Someone enlighten me.

Thanks and Go Warriors!

[MUinCO]

In my experience the MU v. UW rivalry had always been a mild one in comparison to some of the most heated ones around the country.  My take is that the rivalry is pretty much centered around basketball and has only picked up some heat in recent years with both programs doing well and then it sort of disappears.

All message-board trash talking aside, I think a lot of MU students visit and party at UW throughout the year; know, socialize, and inter-date/hookup with their student body.  Some even go on to do post-grad work there.  Sure there are a few UW message-board crashing yahoos trying to stir the pot, but all in all this is not the most heated rivalry.  My guess is the fact that close to half of MU's student body and alumni (like myself) are not from Wisconsin and that UW is not in our conference take it from "pure hate" on the rivalry scale to more of a mildly annoying bragging rights kind of setting.

Now ND is another story, beating ND into the ground is a priority and the fights and general ugliness I witnessed over the years by fans on both sides make it MU's biggest rivalry in my mind.

[Avenue Commons]

All message-board trash talking aside, I think a lot of MU students visit and party at UW throughout the year; know, socialize, and inter-date/hookup with their student body.  Some even go on to do post-grad work there. 

The inverse is true as well.

[HoopDreams]

If you don't think this is a serious rivalry you clearly are not from Wisconsin or watch college basketball. This is a huge rivalry and a game that is looked forward to each year from both sides.

[Irv the Working Man]

There is some history around the rivalry.  One has to remember that UW considers itself the only major, national university in the state and that our state has a strong socialist history.  The thought of a small private (and Catholic) university taking center stage occassionally does not sit well with some.  This was particularly true in the Al McGuire era when Marquette was consistently a national power.  The games were pretty heated in the 1970's including fights in the stands and a lot of words exchanged. 

That being stated, most UW fans would argue that Big Ten teams are their true rivals.  Until entering CUSA, aside from ND, DePaul and UW, Marquette had rotating rivalries as they were independent or switching conferences.  At one time Xavier was a rival and now we don't even play them.

[augoman]

in the 60's and 70's, the huge alumni body of UW didn't attend football games or bball games..., nor did the students.  Both teams sucked, while MU had a span of 10 years when they were never ranked out of the top 10 in the nation!  In spite of this, because so many UW alums live in the area, the number one media monopoly (journal, sentinel, wtmj, wkti) largely staffed by UW alums and saddled with the UW game contract, continued to give primary coverage to UW athletics.  This snub, lack of recognition, slight, or whatever, had a large part to do w/ MU fans' pleasure at beating UW. 
Additionally, MU and UW used to play 2x annually.  They co-hosted the Milwaukee Classic at the Arena.  It was a 4 team tournament at Christmas time, with each playing a bunny, then meeting in the championship game.  Also played alternate home games.  MU won the Milwaukee Classic so many times in a row that Madison pulled out.  Further, the rivalry is exemplified by the picture that was on the cover of the Milwaukee Journal Sports page when MU beat Madison in a close game at the arena, and Al danced on the scorer's table.  Very visible in the background of fans is a man standing in the crowd giving Al the finger.  This man was the father of two UW players, Kim and Kerry Hughes.  In high school, I went to UW homecoming games, stayed in frat houses, etc.  Now, having attended current UW games both as a fan (w/alumni) and as a opposing visitor I can tell you that the hostility and drunken insults coming from the students and alums at these games make me embarrassed to be from Wisconsin.  Kick 'em to the curb, Warriors!

[chefrad]

My impression was that the rivalry began with UW running up the score against struggling MU FB teams in the 50s. Then, when McGuire made MU a national BB superpower (no exaggeration), the Milwaukee Journal provided lukewarm coverage. My father, an MU Dean, always though the latter was a Lutheran (Journal) vs. Catholic thing but, if so, that is long gone.

 Nowadays you're happy if your kid marries within the species.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I also think (from an alumni perspective) a lot of us live and work closely with a lot of UW supporters (I say supporters because a lot of people sort of blindly root for the badgers even if they have no affiliation with the school).

Obviously great rivalries are really created on the court (see Louisville), but geography plays a big part too.

The city and the state always seem to get behind the Badgers in a lot of subtle and not-so-subtle ways... so it's always nice when MU can lay the wood to them.

A lot of MU students and alums aren't from WI, and/or don't live there... but it doesn't change the fact that the school(s) are in the same state, so the rivalry gets pretty heated.

[MUrugger]

Augoman seems to have it about right and my guess is that he sips from from a slightly earlier Warrior vintage than me.  I was there for school from '72-'76 and for a girlfriend for weekends in '77 and those were great times to be a Warrior.  (2 Final 4s)  I don't recall this rivalry being too heated, kinda like UWM(ke) getting worked up without ever winning, and the Badger bailout of the Milwaukee Classic was weak.

I can still see a loose ball bouncing away from the basket with MU down a point, and Mo Lucas picks it up and in the same motion elevates for a shot that swishes through the hoop to beat Bucky at the buzzer.  That might have been the game where Al danced on the table and the Hughes twins' old man lofted his famous finger.  The Mecca exploded in delirium, and out the door into a driving snowstorm.  Wells Street was awash in beer and brawls and school was cancelled the next day!  

Then we lost our coaching compass, Dahmer started munching on the locals, UW won a lot of in-state recruits, and Coach Crean (& Fr. Wild) rode to the rescue.  Bo Ryan as indignant, arrogant foil certainly adds to today's rivalry.

[MUinCO]

If you don't think this is a serious rivalry you clearly are not from Wisconsin or watch college basketball. This is a huge rivalry and a game that is looked forward to each year from both sides.

Not necessarily true, I am a college basketball fan and no, I am not from Wisconsin (as is half the MU community).  But some of us here who have been around a little longer do know a little history.  MUrugger didn't notice much of a rivalry in the 70s, I didn't see it in the late80s-early90s, but times can change. 

Is it Duke v. UNC, Army v. Navy?  Fights in the parking lot?  Family members not talking to one another?  Brown jugs, and other similar wacky trophies being passed between the schools?  Vandalism and/or theft of mascots?  I say no. 

I do agree that today this is a big game...my point is that it's not as passionate or heated as some of the other matchups around the country.  It doesn't have much in the way of legs yet, but I do believe it's getting there.  The rivalry is much more intense then in years past and I suspect if a few of you show up in the UW student section, complete with face paint and signs it will only make it better (just watch your backs my friends).

[Ready2Fly]

Dahmer started munching on the locals

Classic line. 

Coming from the east coast originally, I forgot how badly this hurt MU attendance and image.

[MUinCO]

Dahmer started munching on the locals

Classic line. 

Coming from the east coast originally, I forgot how badly this hurt MU attendance and image.

Yeah, I was attending MU at that time...living at Patrician Apartments just a few blocks away from the munching.  It all happened over the summer, but I heard about it at summer school in friggn Mexico (MU-USD program).  I had to ask my spanish teacher to re-state what he had just said in english becuase it was so out there.

[BuzzSucksSucks]

Further, the rivalry is exemplified by the picture that was on the cover of the Milwaukee Journal Sports page when MU beat Madison in a close game at the arena, and Al danced on the scorer's table.  Very visible in the background of fans is a man standing in the crowd giving Al the finger.

Does anybody have copy of this pic?



found it.

[HoopDreams]

In response to MUinCO:


Jay Bilas' Top 10 Games to See
Posted: Wednesday, November 7, 2007 12:15 PM

Conference play, rivalries and banners on the line are no-brainers for great games. I already know that I will be riveted by epic battles like Duke-North Carolina, UCLA-Arizona, Texas-Kansas, Michigan State-Indiana and Syracuse-UConn. But the games that get my blood pumping for the season are the ones that will be played before the ball drops in Times Square. Here are 10 early games I would dig deep into my own pocket to see:

1. Georgetown at Memphis, Dec. 22, ESPN
The Hoyas have the discipline to give Memphis fits. Jonathan Wallace is the most underappreciated great guard in the country, and DaJuan Summers is ready to take off. Memphis has more horses and the home crowd. Joey Dorsey couldn't deal with Greg Oden, who had a rough time with Roy Hibbert. Dorsey has to battle Hibbert, and the transitive property of equality.

2. Texas at Michigan State, Dec. 22, ESPN2
No Kevin Durant, no problem. Texas will still be very good, and the Longhorns' game at Michigan State will be a shootout and a great way to start the holiday season. Last season, Texas and Tennessee had an epic battle on this same day, and you can expect the Spartans and Horns to do likewise.

3. Marquette at Wisconsin, Dec. 8, ESPN2
This game is Duke-Carolina with cheese. These two teams really want to beat each other, no matter how many times they tell us its just another game. Marquette has great guards and Tom Crean has built for this season with an older group. Wisconsin just keeps "fundamentalling" you to death, and the Badgers will be tough in Madison.

4. USC vs. Memphis, Dec. 4, ESPN
Memphis has the most explosive talent in the nation, and Derrick Rose gives Chris Douglas-Roberts and crew a legit point guard to bring it all together. USC is young, but talented, and this will be a spotlight (in Madison Square Garden for the Jimmy V) that O.J. Mayo will crave. Plus, it will still be early, so all of the "can Memphis hold the Mayo" jokes will still be somewhat fresh … or at least tolerable.

5. North Carolina at Ohio State, Nov. 29, ESPN
This will be a high-scoring game. North Carolina is, along with Memphis, one of the best teams in the nation going into the season. Watch for Ty Lawson to be much improved, Deon Thompson to make an impact and Tyler Hansbrough to simply take over. Ohio State will be much better than people think, and Kosta Koufos will be a great player in Columbus before he's done.

6. Maui championship game, Nov. 21, ESPN
The Maui always delivers great games, and this season will be no exception. Maybe it's the tiny high school gym that turns every player into Jimmy Chitwood, or maybe its Bill Raftery in shorts. The final could pit Marquette and Duke, with great guards, tradition and emotion.

7. Arizona at Kansas, Nov. 25, ESPN
Kansas is Final Four good and has very good experience and depth. Arizona is younger and should be hungrier for success. Despite being played just three days after Thanksgiving, the crowd at Allen Fieldhouse will show no signs of the effects of L-tryptophan.

8. NC State at Michigan State, Nov. 28, ESPN
Michigan State has another Big Ten title team, and Tom Izzo will be blending talented newcomers Kalin Lucas, Chris Allen and Durrell Summers with vets Drew Neitzel and Raymar Morgan. NC State may not have an established point guard, but the Wolfpack will still be a big challenge in what should be a fun game to watch.

9. Indiana at Southern Illinois, Dec. 1, ESPNU
Who scheduled this one? This is like agreeing to fight an angry snake in the depths of its favorite hole. Indiana newcomer Eric Gordon will get an eye-opener in Carbondale, and if Indiana isn't ready for a fight, Southern Illinois will win. No team in America closes out better than Southern Illinois. It's like a clinic.

10. George Mason vs. Kansas State, Nov. 22, ESPN2
The Patriots should be good and prepared to take on a high-powered group of talented young players, and new Kansas State coach Frank Martin in the Old Spice Classic in Orlando, Fla. George Mason's Folarin Campbell is ready to be a star, and Michael Beasley will get a chance to shine for the Wildcats. Don't be surprised to see Mason pull this one off.

[MUinCO]

Okay, I stand corrected...Jay Bilas knows all.  Wasn't always Duke v. UNC with cheese though.

Either way, it's going to be a great game and make the rivalry even more intense for years to come.  UW fans will have a hard time coming to terms with the fact that it was MU that ended their home win streak.

[Wareagle]

Dahmer started munching on the locals

Classic line. 

Coming from the east coast originally, I forgot how badly this hurt MU attendance and image.

Here's a Trib article that was written about the razing of his apartment.  http://media.www.marquettetribune.org/media/storage/paper1130/news/2007/03/08/News/Dahmers.Apartment.had.A.Stigma.To.It-2758098.shtml

I found the passage below to be the most interesting:

"For the 1991 fall semester, Marquette received 6,081 undergraduate applications. The next year, undergraduate admissions received 5,531 and the year after that it received 5,316 applications, Garces said.

For the fall 2007 semester, the office of undergraduate admissions has received 13,227 applications."

Great to see such a dramatic upswing in only 15 years!

[Ready2Fly]

Dahmer started munching on the locals

Classic line. 

Coming from the east coast originally, I forgot how badly this hurt MU attendance and image.

Here's a Trib article that was written about the razing of his apartment.  http://media.www.marquettetribune.org/media/storage/paper1130/news/2007/03/08/News/Dahmers.Apartment.had.A.Stigma.To.It-2758098.shtml

I found the passage below to be the most interesting:

"For the 1991 fall semester, Marquette received 6,081 undergraduate applications. The next year, undergraduate admissions received 5,531 and the year after that it received 5,316 applications, Garces said.

For the fall 2007 semester, the office of undergraduate admissions has received 13,227 applications."

Great to see such a dramatic upswing in only 15 years!

It is great to see.

Could the two contributing factors for the fall and rise possibly be on more opposite ends of the spectrum than Dahmer and Wade?  I'm gonna go out on a limb and say no...

[TallTitan34]

As a Marquette student from Illinois, me and my roommates (from Illinois as well) hate on all things Wisconsin be it Brewers, Bucks, not plowing the streets, dumb drivers, etc.

A lot of my high school friends went to U of I so I always cheer against them... with one exception.  When they play UW.

Along with the rivalry with Marquette I hate UW because I hate most everything Wisconsin.

Marquette = An oasis in an otherwise crappy state!  

[gjreda]

As a Marquette student from Illinois, me and my roommates (from Illinois as well) hate on all things Wisconsin be it Brewers, Bucks, not plowing the streets, dumb drivers, etc.

A lot of my high school friends went to U of I so I always cheer against them... with one exception.  When they play UW.

Along with the rivalry with Marquette I hate UW because I hate most everything Wisconsin.

Marquette = An oasis in an otherwise crappy state! 

Being another Illinois kid... I agree with every single thing your wrote.  Especially with plowing the streets.

[drewm88]

Let's worry about that Wisconsin hate next week. Now is the time to go badger hunting.

[drewm88]

Further, the rivalry is exemplified by the picture that was on the cover of the Milwaukee Journal Sports page when MU beat Madison in a close game at the arena, and Al danced on the scorer's table.  Very visible in the background of fans is a man standing in the crowd giving Al the finger.

Does anybody have copy of this pic?



found it.

Where is the guy flipping the bird? Also, I found this link from gomarquette.com upon Al's death.
http://gomarquette.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/012601aac.html

[WashDCWarrior]

According to Bilas, Marquette will play in two of the ten 'big games' listed, as the Maui Championship game was included as well.

[jmayer1]

As a Marquette student from Illinois, me and my roommates (from Illinois as well) hate on all things Wisconsin be it Brewers, Bucks, not plowing the streets, dumb drivers, etc.

A lot of my high school friends went to U of I so I always cheer against them... with one exception.  When they play UW.

Along with the rivalry with Marquette I hate UW because I hate most everything Wisconsin.

Marquette = An oasis in an otherwise crappy state!  

Nobody made you come into Wisconsin to go to college, but Marquette is glad to have you if you are a Warriors fan

Coming from the oppositte end as a kid from Wisconsin who moved to Chicago after graduation I can't stand all the fing traffic, fair weather fans for EVERY team, and people who drive like there time is so much more important than mine (like squeezing by me right before the merge is really gonna save a lot of time, especially when we are going 15mph)...etc

However, not to get off track; I grew up in Wisconsin and actually cheered for Wisconsin (still cheer for them in fb) until I came to Marquette.  Now I can't stand those pricks in basketball and hope we beat them by 40.

[BuzzSucksSucks]

Where is the guy flipping the bird?

The guy in the light shirt, looks like the front row there, just to Al's left.

[muwarrior87]

I have a similar experience to jmayers...well, with the growing up in wisconsin and cheering for the Rodents as a kid.  Parents and older relatives don't tell ya about all the legal problems and politics of the sports so ya just blindly follow.  I can't cheer for UW in anything anymore because I just don't respect their athletic programs.  It's the same w/ THE OSU...scandal and lack of graduation across the board.  MU has it right in the fact we graduate so many more of our student athletes.  It's good to see those guys succeed on the court/field then go on and succeed at life.

[SqueallyDRyan]

I don't like all of the animosity between Wisconsin and the fibers. It is not good for  karma before the big game.  We have to present a united front against the Badgers.  Plus, you cannot honestly believe marquette is the only good thing in the state.  What about Culver's, cheese in general, and the electric guitar?  When it comes to sports teams I think that you can hate whoever you want.  And of course everyone hates unplowed streets if you are trying to get somewhere. But I find the bad driving comment hilarious because everyone in Wisconsin hates Illinois drivers too. 

[gjreda]

Good idea Squeally.  My apologies.

Buck the Fadgers.

[MUshrooms]

As a Marquette student from Illinois, me and my roommates (from Illinois as well) hate on all things Wisconsin be it Brewers, Bucks, not plowing the streets, dumb drivers, etc.

A lot of my high school friends went to U of I so I always cheer against them... with one exception.  When they play UW.

Along with the rivalry with Marquette I hate UW because I hate most everything Wisconsin.

Marquette = An oasis in an otherwise crappy state! 

Illinois sucks.  You're calling our drivers bad?  There, now I feel a little better.

[IAmMarquette]

As a Marquette student from Illinois, me and my roommates (from Illinois as well) hate on all things Wisconsin be it Brewers, Bucks, not plowing the streets, dumb drivers, etc.

A lot of my high school friends went to U of I so I always cheer against them... with one exception.  When they play UW.

Along with the rivalry with Marquette I hate UW because I hate most everything Wisconsin.

Marquette = An oasis in an otherwise crappy state! 

Illinois sucks.  You're calling our drivers bad?  There, now I feel a little better.

Being a WI native and now living in Chicago, I can say that I appreciate IL drivers on the interstate, but their driving style doesn't translate well to urban areas.

[CWSKeith]

You're calling our drivers bad?  There, now I feel a little better.

Not necessarily bad -- just so fracking slow.  I agree with TallTitan, but Squeally is correct -- let's leave that talk till after basketball season is over or, at the very least, till after the weekend.  We've all gots some bu'ness to take care of Saturday. 

[muhoosier260]

I don't like all of the animosity between Wisconsin and the fibers. It is not good for  karma before the big game.  We have to present a united front against the Badgers.  Plus, you cannot honestly believe marquette is the only good thing in the state.  What about Culver's, cheese in general, and the electric guitar?  When it comes to sports teams I think that you can hate whoever you want.  And of course everyone hates unplowed streets if you are trying to get somewhere. But I find the bad driving comment hilarious because everyone in Wisconsin hates Illinois drivers too. 

coming from Indiana, I have immense disdain for all things fib and cheese, beat that!

[IAmMarquette]

coming from Indiana, I have immense disdain for all things fib and cheese, beat that!

Fine, but you're still from Indiana.