Archdiocese of New Orleans

[Uncle Rico]

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/amp/news/257560/archdiocese-of-new-orleans-suspected-of-child-sex-trafficking-warrant-shows

More disturbing news from the world of Catholicism

[MU82]

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/amp/news/257560/archdiocese-of-new-orleans-suspected-of-child-sex-trafficking-warrant-shows

More disturbing news from the world of Catholicism

'Succession' actor bashes the Bible, calls religion a bad influence on humanity: 'People are so stupid'

https://www.foxnews.com/media/succession-actor-bashes-bible-calls-religion-bad-influence-humanity-people-stupid

[cheebs09]

'Succession' actor bashes the Bible, calls religion a bad influence on humanity: 'People are so stupid'

https://www.foxnews.com/media/succession-actor-bashes-bible-calls-religion-bad-influence-humanity-people-stupid

But what does Ja Rule think?

[Pakuni]

'Succession' actor bashes the Bible, calls religion a bad influence on humanity: 'People are so stupid'

https://www.foxnews.com/media/succession-actor-bashes-bible-calls-religion-bad-influence-humanity-people-stupid

Meh.
Logan Roy was a great TV character, but why should anyone care about Brian Cox's take on religion any more than that of a football player who thanks God for his game-winning touchdown?

[tower912]

Agreed. 

[pbiflyer]

Meh.
Logan Roy was a great TV character, but why should anyone care about Brian Cox's take on religion any more than that of a football player who thanks God for his game-winning touchdown?

But I do appreciate Brian Cox take on Buffalo’s fans.

https://dolphinstalk.com/2020/09/this-day-in-dolphins-history-bryan-cox-gives-the-one-finger-salute-to-buffalo/

[dgies9156]

OK folks, let's be realistic.

As much as the Roman Catholic Church talks about being created by Jesus and the Popes come straight down from God Him/Herself, the church consists of human beings. Human beings make mistakes, commit sins (both mortal and venial) and do things to which we should be ashamed.

That's as true in religion as it is in government, business, social services and every other element of human endeavor.

For too long, our Church has protected the institution of organized religion rather than the folks its supposed to protect -- the children of God. We've changed an awful lot in the last 150 years and inevitably, our church will change more as God reveals more to us. But to dump religious belief and the beauty that this belief is in its most basic form because of bad actors rejects a lot of what our world should be about.

As a practicing Roman Catholic, I still believe our church as a lot to learn about people and about what God has given us. But years ago, my high school was basically the center of priestly pedophilia while I was there. Several of my classmates were affected. But, there were so many fine people that I knew were incredible people of faith that I accepted their teaching and their view of the world, even as we knew some things were very wrong around us. Simply put, you can't throw the baby out with the bathwater!

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

As a practicing Roman Catholic, I still believe our church as a lot to learn about people and about what God has given us. But years ago, my high school was basically the center of priestly pedophilia while I was there. Several of my classmates were affected. But, there were so many fine people that I knew were incredible people of faith that I accepted their teaching and their view of the world, even as we knew some things were very wrong around us. Simply put, you can't throw the baby out with the bathwater!

This paragraph is…something.

[Pakuni]

OK folks, let's be realistic.

As much as the Roman Catholic Church talks about being created by Jesus and the Popes come straight down from God Him/Herself, the church consists of human beings. Human beings make mistakes, commit sins (both mortal and venial) and do things to which we should be ashamed.

That's as true in religion as it is in government, business, social services and every other element of human endeavor.

For too long, our Church has protected the institution of organized religion rather than the folks its supposed to protect -- the children of God. We've changed an awful lot in the last 150 years and inevitably, our church will change more as God reveals more to us. But to dump religious belief and the beauty that this belief is in its most basic form because of bad actors rejects a lot of what our world should be about.

As a practicing Roman Catholic, I still believe our church as a lot to learn about people and about what God has given us. But years ago, my high school was basically the center of priestly pedophilia while I was there. Several of my classmates were affected. But, there were so many fine people that I knew were incredible people of faith that I accepted their teaching and their view of the world, even as we knew some things were very wrong around us. Simply put, you can't throw the baby out with the bathwater!

Bloodsuckers.

[MU82]

Meh.
Logan Roy was a great TV character, but why should anyone care about Brian Cox's take on religion any more than that of a football player who thanks God for his game-winning touchdown?

Fair.

[Jockey]

Dgies,

It’s not the Catholic belief or the parishioners that are the problem.

It is the organized crime aspect of the leadership. Historically, the Vatican has been evil whether we’re talking 1,000 years ago, 500 years ago or85 years ago. Why ANYONE would choose to be led by a group of pedophiles is beyond me.


Off subject - but how does autocorrect change Dgies to Shoes?

[Uncle Rico]

OK folks, let's be realistic.

As much as the Roman Catholic Church talks about being created by Jesus and the Popes come straight down from God Him/Herself, the church consists of human beings. Human beings make mistakes, commit sins (both mortal and venial) and do things to which we should be ashamed.

That's as true in religion as it is in government, business, social services and every other element of human endeavor.

For too long, our Church has protected the institution of organized religion rather than the folks its supposed to protect -- the children of God. We've changed an awful lot in the last 150 years and inevitably, our church will change more as God reveals more to us. But to dump religious belief and the beauty that this belief is in its most basic form because of bad actors rejects a lot of what our world should be about.

As a practicing Roman Catholic, I still believe our church as a lot to learn about people and about what God has given us. But years ago, my high school was basically the center of priestly pedophilia while I was there. Several of my classmates were affected. But, there were so many fine people that I knew were incredible people of faith that I accepted their teaching and their view of the world, even as we knew some things were very wrong around us. Simply put, you can't throw the baby out with the bathwater!

I wouldn’t let a child be alone with a priest

[Badgerhater]

Meh.
Logan Roy was a great TV character, but why should anyone care about Brian Cox's take on religion any more than that of a football player who thanks God for his game-winning touchdown?

I’ve also associated Cox with his role in Supertroopers.   It was humorous to see him in Succession but think about Supertroopers.

[dgies9156]

Guys:

I understand your revulsion with the pedophilia and, if true, the allegations against the New Orleans archdiocese. I share your revulsion.

But to stress again, the church of God but run by people. We're imperfect and we all make mistakes -- some bigger than others.

I am a citizen of a nearly 250 year old country. For about 190 of those years, we either enslaved or tortured (or both) an entire race of people who, by our Constitution, were American citizens. We rounded up American citizens of Japanese ancestry and put them in concentration camps because we bizarrely feared disloyalty. We have done other things over the years as a nation and people that go against the very nature of our Constitution and laws. Most of us certainly aren't proud of these parts of our history.

The point is that as an American, I'm not proud of many things our country has done. But I'm still of the belief we're about the best thing going in our world today. So I try to change through voting, actions and advocacy the things I do not like. As a Catholic, I feel the same way. From the Crusades, to Bishops' torture chambers to being way too cozy with bad governments, our Church has a history that I believe is against many of the things were are taught in Scripture. We're human, despite what many clerics want us to believe about them. Hopefully, others who feel as I do will try to change our church from the inside.

As Catholics, both as individuals who've put the Gospels into practice, and as an institution, Roman Catholics feed, clothe, medicate and care for, educate and call for more social justice than about any other NGO in the world. That's what we as Catholics and Christians are about.

[Jockey]

But to stress again, the church of God but run by people. We're imperfect and we all make mistakes -- some bigger than others.

Sounds like a 'get out of jail free' card.

Exactly the same rational that "christians" use to vote for a convicted sex offender.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Yeah the Catholic Church has done a lot of good and charitable work. But then it takes a position on things like IVF and makes you go…what?

My point here isn’t to debate IVF, but to point out that you can’t lift yourself up constantly as having THE answers to guide your life yet fall down so completely and repeatedly on pedophilia.

The Church should be grateful that so many care so much about it that people are willing to overlook the hypocrisy of its leadership. A lot of organizations do charitable work without burdening its supporters like that.

[HouWarrior]

There is an underlying issue that would move this ongoing risk miles in the right direction.

Is your faith or the doctrines of the church fundamentally altered if celibacy were abolished?
 To me it wouldn't affect much of anything but the underlying institutional problem. Consider that:

1) a priest is required to take a vow of celibacy but going in he gets little training on his sexuality or how to cope with the human urges which will still exist, in the face of this contrary to nature vow.

Then:
2) a priest may keep the vow without incident (but maybe it will have some side effects) congrats;
3) a priest will closet his vow breaking with straight sex, sometimes with vulnerable women;
4) a priest will closet his vow breaking by either having or beginning homosexual sex with other men, sometimes priests;
5) a priest will closet his vow breaking by pursuit and actions on feelings of pedophilia; or
6) like any discussion of sexual preference, there is a spectrum of the above categories which may arise over time

It would seem all church leaders were reared up and are rowing the same familiar boat of celibacy which leads them to instinctively protect the celibacy institution by internally recognizing that the above options have and will occur but that the myth of perfect celibacy, obedience to God and to holy vows made require the institution not only accommodate but make it policy to secrete vow breaking and leave victims behind in the world of such enforced silence. Regardless of the priest's chosen vow breaking category, or even vow compliance none have an incentive to break with the others, the shelter/meal ticket system, their leaders or the codes of silence.

A simple question arises...What if celibacy was abolished? What if sexual activity became an open book? Why not, in one action, eliminate the personal and institutional denial and secretion of vow breaking.

 Sure, hate the sin but love the sinner. Why did we ever expect even on a vow taking that priests could achieve the perfect. I think less of someone hiding from the truth of fallibility and am happy to assist the honest.

My faith my love my devotion has never been improved one wit by celibacy. Actually, it seems arcane and quite peripheral to the core of Christianity...kind of like the circus show of the Vatican's incense pot swing. 

Please avoid noting errors or picking at the periphery ....and answer:
Q: Why not just abolish celibacy?

[Pakuni]

Abolishing the vow of celibacy would be fine, but I doubt it solves the issue.
Very little of what we know about child sex abusers suggests they act out an inability to have relations with adults. They seek out children because that's what they want, not as a desperate alternative to a healthy, adult relationship.

I suspect historically, Catholic men with these inclinations have gone into the priesthood mistakenly believing it would cure, or at least control, these urges. And the Catholic church has done a woeful job of screening these people out before they take their vows and exposing/removing them after.

[forgetful]

Guys:

I understand your revulsion with the pedophilia and, if true, the allegations against the New Orleans archdiocese. I share your revulsion.

But to stress again, the church of God but run by people. We're imperfect and we all make mistakes -- some bigger than others.

I am a citizen of a nearly 250 year old country. For about 190 of those years, we either enslaved or tortured (or both) an entire race of people who, by our Constitution, were American citizens. We rounded up American citizens of Japanese ancestry and put them in concentration camps because we bizarrely feared disloyalty. We have done other things over the years as a nation and people that go against the very nature of our Constitution and laws. Most of us certainly aren't proud of these parts of our history.

The point is that as an American, I'm not proud of many things our country has done. But I'm still of the belief we're about the best thing going in our world today. So I try to change through voting, actions and advocacy the things I do not like. As a Catholic, I feel the same way. From the Crusades, to Bishops' torture chambers to being way too cozy with bad governments, our Church has a history that I believe is against many of the things were are taught in Scripture. We're human, despite what many clerics want us to believe about them. Hopefully, others who feel as I do will try to change our church from the inside.

As Catholics, both as individuals who've put the Gospels into practice, and as an institution, Roman Catholics feed, clothe, medicate and care for, educate and call for more social justice than about any other NGO in the world. That's what we as Catholics and Christians are about.

dgies, at some point, isn't it time to say that organized religion is a problem. That isn't to say the religion needs to go out the window, but one can be a practicing Christian without the Catholic Church, or any of the other organized churches that have repeatedly run astray of what the Bible teaches.

There really isn't an organized religion not fraught with contradictions between the words they preach and the actions they take. But the best thing about faith and religion, is it starts with a pact between you and God, and doesn't necessarily need to rely on anyone else.

[dgies9156]

Eliminating celibacy is a major start.

The basic law of economic supply and demand applies to the priesthood as well as just about every other human endeavor. You eliminate 90 percent-plus of the potential candidates in your job pool and you end up with shortages and accepting folks into the seminary that you would not otherwise even bat an eye at. Celibacy is a bad idea that was started in the middle ages largely because married priests of the era were sinning in ways they ought not be sinning.

The second step is to allow single and married women to be priests. Last time I checked, Godliness is not defined by the existence of a prostate. I suspect we'd be a lot closer to having a fully functional, adequately staffed priesthood if ordaining women was accepted. Having women celebrate Mass, lead parishes and directly influence ritual in our faith would have the effect of softening further some of the harshness and, maybe just maybe, begin to lead toward a better understanding of a woman's role in society. God knows, we might even change our mind as a faith on birth control (heck, most of the faithful has).

At days end, we're still going to have scandal. At the parish to which my wife and I belong, our late pastor and his administrative assistant absconded with at least $1.5 million just four short years ago. They capitalized on bad accounting and nonexistent audit controls as well as a Pastor who violated Canon Law by not creating financial and operational oversight through Parish councils and finance committees. That stuff won't be stopped simply by allowing the whole of the Catholic universe into the leadership of our parishes and dioceses. But it's a start toward having a functional, 21st century community of God.

Brother Jockey, I'm not arguing there shouldn't be reform and the perpetrators of sexual violence against our youth not be severely punished. Nor am I arguing the church shouldn't change. Quite the contrary. The most notable pedophile priest who preyed on my class and classmates was eventually caught and spent the rest of his life where he belonged -- in a cage at the Tennessee State Prison in Cockrill Bend. He came out in a box and if there's a just God, he's toasting with Satan right now.

Brother Forgetful, Organized religion is like a gigantic consulting firm. It's job is to advise you on the best way to attain oneness with God. It's not like the Middle Ages, where it rules everything. You can decide in your wisdom to have a personal relationship with God, free of any organized religion, or you can align yourself with the teachings and the community of one or multiple religious organizations. Ultimately, the Catholic Church won't be judged on my ability to follow the teachings of Jesus. I will. I'm responsible for my own actions, my own sins and my own acceptance of my faith into my daily life.

My children have gone down your route. They live a faith-filled life but are not involved in any organized religion. That's their right and no matter what I think, they have a free will and a right to choose what's best for them.  Despite the bumps in the road and the many contradictory behaviors of the Catholic Church, I remain a Catholic. Whatever the decision, I hope you find the spiritual comfort in your's.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

My children have gone down your route. They live a faith-filled life but are not involved in any organized religion. That's their right and no matter what I think, they have a free will and a right to choose what's best for them.  Despite the bumps in the road and the many contradictory behaviors of the Catholic Church, I remain a Catholic. Whatever the decision, I hope you find the spiritual comfort in your's.

Yeah, how this has impacted children is really the saddest part. My kids grew up very active in the Church, but between bad actors and the intersection of faith and politics, they have moved away in any number of different ways.

[tower912]

The conversation with my daughter started "How can you stand the hypocrisy?", as she knows that is one of my buttons.    I never came up with an answer to dissuade her.

[21Jumpstreet]

I suspect historically, Catholic men with these inclinations have gone into the priesthood mistakenly believing it would cure, or at least control, these urges. And the Catholic church has done a woeful job of screening these people out before they take their vows and exposing/removing them after.

This was my godfather. Catholic priest, gay, deeply conflicted with his call to the priesthood and his homosexuality. He had a relationship with a man (I have been told his partner was of age, but in my heart, I am not certain). Like most people from my dad’s generation (who has a gay sister) it is rarely discussed and even more rarely honestly.

I think abolishing celibacy is necessary, but I am a confirmed Catholic who is decidedly no longer one and didn’t raise my kids in any religion. While it may not rid the organization of pedophilia, I do think accepting sex between consenting priests/adults/partners gay or straight will relieve some of the conflict which could lead to less abuse. Remove the secrecy and the unnecessary restriction. The Catholic church must do something, not for its survival which I am not sure is a benefit, but because abuse of and rape of children is illegal, disgusting, and in their own religion’s words, evil.

[jesmu84]

I was unaware there's a link between celibacy and pedophilia

[Sir Lawrence]

I was unaware there's a link between celibacy and pedophilia

Good point.  I think the bigger issue with the celibacy rule is recruitment of priests.  The pool of candidates would increase substantially, I would think.  And the Church could be flexible:  right now diocesan priests do not take a vow of poverty.  Order priests do (Franciscans, for example)(the jury is still out on Jesuits).  Offer non celibacy as an option.  Keep it if that’s your particular culture given the order.