Who we are now

[tower912]

At the moment, we are a team with 4 high major players on our team.   We are a team with 9 scholarship players.   Our first big man off of the bench played 40 minutes all last season.   Our second big man off of the bench was a JUCO shooting guard a year ago.    Our first guard off of the bench is 5'8".   Our second guard off of the bench had surgery in BOTH shoulders during the offseason.   Our starting center, who we stole from East Carolina,  has more fouls than points.   Trevor Mbakwe and Damian Saunders would go a long way toward addressing our needs, but for various reasons they are elsewhere.  We are now reaping what Crean has sown.  When Fulce and Otule return, we will at least be able to scrimmage full court with scholarship players.    They will at least provide options other than Frozena when Buzz looks down his bench.
    We lost a game we thought we should have won.   See Winthrop, NDSU.   These things happen.   Our weaknesses that we all knew about were exposed.  We are weak inside and have no depth and no game changers coming off of the bench.   Theoretically, both of those problems are going to be addressed in the next few days.    Everybody knew we were walking a tightrope with this team.   We have no margin for error and sometimes that bites you in the Abe.     
    Give Buzz a chance.   Many of our weaknesses our being addressed with his recruiting classes.   Let him get a couple of classes in and experienced before we toss him under a bus.    Could Smith, Knight, K, Tark, Roy, Pitino, Calhoun, Lute win a championship with the 9 schollie players we have been playing lately?   Ummm, no.   Give the guy a couple of years.

[StillWarriors]

Well put, and also very accurate....unfortunately.

[MU B2002]

So are you saying we are who we thought we were?


Sorry.

[RedWebster]

Nobody objects to Buzz personally, but the point is that Marquette was in a position to hire somebody a lot more experienced and they, instead, chose to take advice from his predecessor...a guy whose entire personality was gleemed from leadership books...and from a booster who is now sitting in seats behind the Indiana bench.

We have heard that several experienced coaches were interested in talking to us. Again, this is the highest profile job at Marquette University. Buzz is essentially the face of Marquette for people not living in Milwaukee.

So, with that said, what does "Give Buzz a chance" mean? We shouldn't have been put in a position where we are simply hoping that our inexperienced coach gets it figured out before facing the likes of Bo Ryan, Bruce Pearl, Rick Pitino, Jim Calhoun, Jim Boeheim, John Thompson, etc. We have the most experienced team in the country this year. We decided to ignore that and try to develop this guy.

We could have had a BMW, but we choose to go with the Kia...but paid the Beemer's sticker price.

Give the Kia a chance, though.

[muwarrior87]

The only people I remember hearing mentioned had little interest in taking the job.  Who was genuinely interested, Webster?

[MU gimp ONE]

i agree that i don't think any coach in the country could be doing more with what we have.  thin benches are thin benches regardless of who is at the helm. 

Redwebster, please tell me what "BMW" type coaches were interested in the job.  believe it or not, but I'm starting to enjoy murf's post a lot more than yours.  i hope you are able to pull the stick out of your you-know-what before the end of the season... or this is going to get very old.

[RedWebster]

The only people I remember hearing mentioned had little interest in taking the job.  Who was genuinely interested, Webster?

According to IWB on the other board, at least one of Tony Bennett, Sean Miller and, I believe Mark Few (?...not sure of the third name, but it was one of the many bandied about, maybe the guy from Southern Illinois) were interested.

The point is...if we had hired, for instance, the coach of Wright State would Wright State have turned around and even given Buzz Williams and interview? Of course not. Why, then, was he qualifed for Marquette? It's absolutely insane that we hired him.

He wouldn't have been qualified for our job even if he had stayed at New Orleans and made the NCAA with them last year. We wouldn't have even thought twice about him.

I'm telling you, this is a disaster of Dukiet-like proportions. He's way out over his skiis.

[pbiflyer]

According to IWB on the other board, at least one of Tony Bennett, Sean Miller and, I believe Mark Few (?...not sure of the third name, but it was one of the many bandied about, maybe the guy from Southern Illinois) were interested.

While we may have been interested in those folks, they did not reciprocate. To say otherwise is inaccurate.

[Big Papi]

According to IWB on the other board, at least one of Tony Bennett, Sean Miller and, I believe Mark Few (?...not sure of the third name, but it was one of the many bandied about, maybe the guy from Southern Illinois) were interested.

The point is...if we had hired, for instance, the coach of Wright State would Wright State have turned around and even given Buzz Williams and interview? Of course not. Why, then, was he qualifed for Marquette? It's absolutely insane that we hired him.

He wouldn't have been qualified for our job even if he had stayed at New Orleans and made the NCAA with them last year. We wouldn't have even thought twice about him.

I'm telling you, this is a disaster of Dukiet-like proportions. He's way out over his skiis.

No they weren't.  The only big name coach that had serious interest was Bruce Weber.  The others were mid-major and it was hard to determine what was real and what was not.  McKillop was one.  I believe the Dayton coach was another that might or might not have expressed interest but Bennett, Miller and Few were not interested.  Those were no brainers and would have been hired over Buzz.

[StillWarriors]

him.

I'm telling you, this is a disaster of Dukiet-like proportions. He's way out over his skiis.

I'm concerned about Buzz, but comparing him to Dukiet at this point is going a little far. Dukiet couldn't have recruited a class like we have coming next year if his life depended on it. Certainly, Buzz will have a lot more to work with. He also faces far stiffer competition. We are in a different league now, literally and figuratively.

[RedWebster]

Dukiet landed commitments from some decent players, but could not get some (or keep some) in school...a problem Crean and Williams do not seem be burdened with.

[MUBasketball]

Some of you guys are hilarious.

Yeah, Brad Brownell would have been a home run for sure! The same Wright State coach who's team is 0-4 right now. Brownell is now in his 3rd year...mostly a team of his recruits and they are regressing.

Oh, maybe Anthony Grant was a home run hire? His VCU Rams are 3-3 right now. He's also in his 3rd season. Hmmmm, as more and more of Capel's players graduate, they aren't doing as well.

How about Chris Lowery? Well, SIU is 2-3 right now, and they've given up 52, 73, 85, 77, and 79 points this season!!!!! Lowery must have no idea how to coach defense!!!!

A lot of you are inexplicably freaking out over ONE STINKING LOSS. If a coach is graded on W's and L's, these three guys sure as hell aren't any better.

My God people, take a freaking pill. Some of you jokers must have thought this team was going undefeated. It's sports...win some, lose some. Settle the F down and go have a beer.

[MUfan2]

Some of you guys are hilarious.

Yeah, Brad Brownell would have been a home run for sure! The same Wright State coach who's team is 0-4 right now. Brownell is now in his 3rd year...mostly a team of his recruits and they are regressing.

Oh, maybe Anthony Grant was a home run hire? His VCU Rams are 3-3 right now. He's also in his 3rd season. Hmmmm, as more and more of Capel's players graduate, they aren't doing as well.

How about Chris Lowery? Well, SIU is 2-3 right now, and they've given up 52, 73, 85, 77, and 79 points this season!!!!! Lowery must have no idea how to coach defense!!!!

A lot of you are inexplicably freaking out over ONE STINKING LOSS. If a coach is graded on W's and L's, these three guys sure as hell aren't any better.

My God people, take a freaking pill. Some of you jokers must have thought this team was going undefeated. It's sports...win some, lose some. Settle the F down and go have a beer.

+1k

[RawdogDX]

His recruiting of a top class in his first few months, on the job, have earned him a bit more slack than one game. 

[MUfan12]

That post was a grand slam, MUBasketball. Well done.

[Daniel]

"who we are now?"

We ARE MARQUETTE - that's who we are.

Let's get on with it. . .next game!

[nola03]

Everyone knows that Buzz has not bought me 100% but to equate him to a Dukiet-type disaster is irrational six games into his tenure.

I think the people who flat out hate Buzz as our coach and see no positives have misdirected anger about having to follow another coach who is learning on the job. IMO, for some reason they feel that is beneath their fanhood.

[Marquette84]

Some of you guys are hilarious.

Yeah, Brad Brownell would have been a home run for sure! The same Wright State coach who's team is 0-4 right now. Brownell is now in his 3rd year...mostly a team of his recruits and they are regressing.

Oh, maybe Anthony Grant was a home run hire? His VCU Rams are 3-3 right now. He's also in his 3rd season. Hmmmm, as more and more of Capel's players graduate, they aren't doing as well.

How about Chris Lowery? Well, SIU is 2-3 right now, and they've given up 52, 73, 85, 77, and 79 points this season!!!!! Lowery must have no idea how to coach defense!!!!

A lot of you are inexplicably freaking out over ONE STINKING LOSS. If a coach is graded on W's and L's, these three guys sure as hell aren't any better.

My God people, take a freaking pill. Some of you jokers must have thought this team was going undefeated. It's sports...win some, lose some. Settle the F down and go have a beer.

Don't forget about "National Coach of the Year" Keno Davis, currently leading a junior- and senior-laden team that returned 83% of it's scoring and 92% of it's rebounding to an underwhelming 4-3 record.


 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Some of you guys are hilarious.

Yeah, Brad Brownell would have been a home run for sure! The same Wright State coach who's team is 0-4 right now. Brownell is now in his 3rd year...mostly a team of his recruits and they are regressing.

Oh, maybe Anthony Grant was a home run hire? His VCU Rams are 3-3 right now. He's also in his 3rd season. Hmmmm, as more and more of Capel's players graduate, they aren't doing as well.

How about Chris Lowery? Well, SIU is 2-3 right now, and they've given up 52, 73, 85, 77, and 79 points this season!!!!! Lowery must have no idea how to coach defense!!!!

A lot of you are inexplicably freaking out over ONE STINKING LOSS. If a coach is graded on W's and L's, these three guys sure as hell aren't any better.

My God people, take a freaking pill. Some of you jokers must have thought this team was going undefeated. It's sports...win some, lose some. Settle the F down and go have a beer.

Largely agree.  Definitely on Lowery and Grant.   Buzz will lose plenty and he'll win plenty.  Like peace, let's give him a chance.  Not much else one can do.  He's going to get his three years minimum and deservedly so.

PS  I still don't like the hiring process, however.   

[4everwarriors]

Largely agree.  Definitely on Lowery and Grant.   Buzz will lose plenty and he'll win plenty.  Like peace, let's give him a chance.  Not much else one can do.  He's going to get his three years minimum and deservedly so.

PS  I still don't like the hiring process, however.   

Hiring process? You mean where Crean convinces Strong that Buzz is the man for the job and Dick dictates that to Cottingham and its a done deal. That process?

[mviale]

Nobody objects to Buzz personally, but the point is that Marquette was in a position to hire somebody a lot more experienced and they, instead, chose to take advice from his predecessor...a guy whose entire personality was gleemed from leadership books...and from a booster who is now sitting in seats behind the Indiana bench.

We have heard that several experienced coaches were interested in talking to us. Again, this is the highest profile job at Marquette University. Buzz is essentially the face of Marquette for people not living in Milwaukee.

So, with that said, what does "Give Buzz a chance" mean? We shouldn't have been put in a position where we are simply hoping that our inexperienced coach gets it figured out before facing the likes of Bo Ryan, Bruce Pearl, Rick Pitino, Jim Calhoun, Jim Boeheim, John Thompson, etc. We have the most experienced team in the country this year. We decided to ignore that and try to develop this guy.

We could have had a BMW, but we choose to go with the Kia...but paid the Beemer's sticker price.

Give the Kia a chance, though.

Very well put, but I also think Buzz brought in a top 20 recruiting class and we have one to two more years of dealing with Crean's mess.  This years team will be fine, but it is severely short handed and this will make dayton type games tough ones.

[mviale]

 Trevor Mbakwe and Damian Saunders would go a long way toward addressing our needs, but for various reasons they are elsewhere. 

I really dont think these guys could amount to much in the Big East. Saunders made a good choice and Trevor may have a tough time at Minn.  I think Fulce and Otule have way more upside and I look forward to their return.

[muarmy81]

Some of you guys are hilarious.

Yeah, Brad Brownell would have been a home run for sure! The same Wright State coach who's team is 0-4 right now. Brownell is now in his 3rd year...mostly a team of his recruits and they are regressing.

Oh, maybe Anthony Grant was a home run hire? His VCU Rams are 3-3 right now. He's also in his 3rd season. Hmmmm, as more and more of Capel's players graduate, they aren't doing as well.

How about Chris Lowery? Well, SIU is 2-3 right now, and they've given up 52, 73, 85, 77, and 79 points this season!!!!! Lowery must have no idea how to coach defense!!!!

A lot of you are inexplicably freaking out over ONE STINKING LOSS. If a coach is graded on W's and L's, these three guys sure as hell aren't any better.

My God people, take a freaking pill. Some of you jokers must have thought this team was going undefeated. It's sports...win some, lose some. Settle the F down and go have a beer.

Out-f'n-standing.  Great post, the grass is always greener until you take a good hard look at what that potential grass is currently doing.  To add more to your post, I think only Brownell was possibly considering MU as an option.  I know Anthony Grant never showed any interest or desire to come up North. 
With Buzz's incoming recruiting class and the potential to land more  talent, I think the program is pointed in the right direction.  Blaming Buzz for not having a balanced line-up is ridiculous.  I think it shows something when he recognizes this and makes a change in his first recruiting class.  With that recruiting philosophy change I think we'll also see that he's capable of developing and making smart moves on the coaching side.  I may be proven wrong but honestly, I never thought Crean was a good X's and O's guy either.

[RedWebster]

If you follow the other board, you'll see that IWB has proven me correct.

To quote:

I can't confirm all on that list but I will say 'most' were interested...

...that being said, I can say that I do believe that "unofficial contact was made with every one of those names...
 
...the list of names that contacted MU is long and distinguished...some backed off for one reaon or another, some were eliminated by MU, but at the end of the day, the Administration decided to end the search with Buzz not because he was a better financial option, not because they panicked and not because they couldn't get anyone else - they ended it because Buzz was the guy they believed in...

...Crean had told me on a number of occasions that Buzz was a high major coach...

So, what we have it confirmation from an "inside" source that other coaches were interested, but we went with the guy Crean liked.

[🏀]

Are we really using the other board as a source?

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

According to IWB on the other board, at least one of Tony Bennett, Sean Miller and, I believe Mark Few (?...not sure of the third name, but it was one of the many bandied about, maybe the guy from Southern Illinois) were interested.

The point is...if we had hired, for instance, the coach of Wright State would Wright State have turned around and even given Buzz Williams and interview? Of course not. Why, then, was he qualifed for Marquette? It's absolutely insane that we hired him.

He wouldn't have been qualified for our job even if he had stayed at New Orleans and made the NCAA with them last year. We wouldn't have even thought twice about him.

I'm telling you, this is a disaster of Dukiet-like proportions. He's way out over his skiis.

Hey Red,

Just to be clear:

You are now using IWB and the "other board" to support your argument?

Isn't this the board you hate and have publicly ripped here in previous threads?

The best thing about the upper deck is you don't have to deal with the pompous older alumni in the lower bowl. Take my word for it, you're better off upstairs!

I consider this site to be the upper deck of the Marquette message boardosphere and the other board to be the lower bowl.

You gotta love a message board that limits the posts of somebody they disagree with, but thinks nothing of a couple of 30-somethings trolling for female companionship. Let's hope some of those guys aren't posting at their local library.

Yikes.

Also, there has been a post by IWB, but please use his whole post when quoting him. I think you will find that he is in fact disagreeing with you (see below)


I look forward to your response, and please don't use a "you must be a stalker" type of argument, the features on this site make it very easy to view and quote your old posts in their entirety.


http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=415&f=2850&t=3515430

Posted: Yesterday 10:00 PM
Re: Question for IWB
"Our sane friends on the other board of course are now pointing back to the "failed" coaches search last April.  One goes as far as saying that IWB said that Mark Few, Sean Miller, Tony Bennett and possibly Lowery from SIU were interested in the MU job but MU failed to speak with them.

I don't recall that and don't recall IWB saying as much.  Confirm or deny IWB?

Wow - where do I start with this one? I can't confirm all on that list but I will say 'most' were interested. The line "MU failed to speak with them" is about the craziest thing I have read in a long time. First off, as a point of clarification, the school doesn't usually talk directly to these candidates. It usually starts with someone the staff of the university knows, and that person is usually the one "unofficially contacting" the pending candidate. You can bet, that when it comes out that someone had met with a school, that they are already pretty deep into it to have gotten to that point. That being said, I can say that I do believe that "unofficial contact was made with every one of those names.

People thinking that MU rushed to a judgement are wrong. They spoke to more names, heard from more candidates, and reviewed more options than most could imagine. The list of names that contacted MU is long and distinguished. Some backed off for one reaon or another, some were eliminated by MU, but at the end of the day, the Administration decided to end the search with Buzz not because he was a better financial option, not because they panicked and not because they couldn't get anyone else - they ended it because Buzz was the guy they believed in, the same way that they went with an assistant coach when Crean was hired. The difference here was that they had an entire year to observe Buzz up close, so they knew a lot more about him than they did with any other head coach they hired since Rick.

People will say I am kissing up, but if someone really wants to dig it up, you can find my comments during the process, BEFORE Buzz was hired - I wanted Buzz. I was telling everyone that Buzz was a great option. Crean had told me on a number of occasions that Buzz was a high major coach. One of those times he said, "We can not let him leave for a mid-major job, he is a high major guy. We need to try to keep him here for 2 more years and then he will get a top job."

I can't believe people are reacting the way they are. One loss - that's it. No, Crean didn't leave an All-American big man behind, but it wasn't for a lack of trying. He was in on some talented big men and the finalist for quite a few, but it just didn't happen. This year he was to have Mbakwe & Otule in the middle, but we all know what happened.

One loss and Buzz can't coach and MU made a mistake? Buzz is the right guy - just give him some time.

[rocky_warrior]

Hey guys - I didn't check - but is that stuff posted on the "free" board?  If so, please at least provide a link to the original.  If it's on the premium board, please just provide a link, and your own summary (i.e. - edit your posts) - no cut & paste.  Gracias....

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Sure thing, Rocky.

It is on the free board and I've inserted the link in my post.

I've pasted the whole post from IWB because I think its important to read the entire thing for context (not just certain lines or snippets).

Thanks.

[RedWebster]

Perhaps you should re-read his post and use your comprehension skills this time. His entire response supports my claim that other high-profile names were interested and that one of the factors in his hiring was Crean's recommendation. I just had the common courtesy to summarize.

Since you're so clever, please point out specific instances in IWB's post where he disagrees with my contention that there was interest in more experienced coaches. I hope you don't make the mistake of using quotation marks around a phrase I never used. Nowhere did I say "MU failed to speak with them." Those are his words, not mine.

But go ahead, show me where he disagrees. I look forward to your interpretation.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Perhaps you should re-read his post and use your comprehension skills this time. His entire response supports my claim that other high-profile names were interested and that one of the factors in his hiring was Crean's recommendation. I just had the common courtesy to summarize.

Since you're so clever, please point out specific instances in IWB's post where he disagrees with my contention that there was interest in more experienced coaches. I hope you don't make the mistake of using quotation marks around a phrase I never used. Nowhere did I say "MU failed to speak with them." Those are his words, not mine.

But go ahead, show me where he disagrees. I look forward to your interpretation.

Let me more concise:

In your original post, you stated:

According to IWB on the other board, at least one of Tony Bennett, Sean Miller and, I believe Mark Few (?...not sure of the third name, but it was one of the many bandied about, maybe the guy from Southern Illinois) were interested.

I don't think IWB's post is the smoking gun you are looking for because he never said that the coaches you listed were interested in the job.

He said many coaches were contacted, not that many coaches were interested. And even if he did say that, we don't know who it was.

I don't want to get into a semantics argument, but I think a school contacting a coach is much different than a coach expressing interest in a job. I mean, MU could have contacted John Wooden, but it doesn't mean he was interested in the job.

[RedWebster]

He said quite specifically:

"I can't confirm all on that list but I will say 'most' were interested."

That is not semantics. If anything, it not only confirms my original post, it goes a step further.
 

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

He said quite specifically:

"I can't confirm all on that list but I will say 'most' were interested."

That is not semantics. If anything, it not only confirms my original post, it goes a step further.
 

Fine.

Nobody (outside of MU) knows who was on the list (for certain), and nobody knows exactly who was interested. Can we agree on that?

From your statements here, you seem to believe that some higher-profile guys were interested, but MU went with Buzz based on Crean's recommendation, which isn't worth a damn because Crean is a 2 faced liar. Can we agree on that?

I believe that there wasn't a laundry list of high profile coaches lining up for MU because if there was, MU would have been more public about the search (it would have looked very good after Crean left to have some higher-profile guys publicly interested in MU).

In the end, it's all just speculation. We both have opinions and ideas, and now we are trying to use IWB as the bible to prove our assumptions.

You are free to believe what you want. I will believe want I want. That is totally fair.

I'm still surprised you reverted to using the "other board" which features the fans you have such disdain for.

[RedWebster]

I don't think Crean is a two-faced liar, so we cannot agree.

I think he's the world's biggest poser...right down to the fake tan, preference for Hummers and shameless social climbing. He's just loathesome...he's not two-faced. And frankly, I believe the fans at Indiana will pick up on that a lot faster than they did in Milwaukee.

In response to you baiting me into commenting on the other board... just because I think they're completely paranoid and absolute sycophants (the very definition, really) doesn't mean I believe they don't have access to sources within the athletic department. Buzz Williams even referenced IWB by name in his opening press conference (Day 1?).

But CrackedSidewalks has broken more stories!

[NotAnAlum]

The funny thing about this Red is that you seem to be inferring in your comments that started this thread that if Buzz had not been selected things would have been better for THIS SEASON.  I don’t see how that could possibly be the case.  If they chose ANYBODY other than Buzz we still would have lost Nick Williams for sure, very likely Otule, probably T Taylor and maybe even Fulce.  It appears that Trevor would have left almost no matter what due to outside pressures.  And it is not out of the question that DJ or Jerel might have said “I don’t want to start over with a new coach I’m gone.”  What would this team have looked like then?  The sad thing is that the minute Crean said yes to Indiana the opportunity for the Big 3 to follow up last year with a Sweet 16+ season took a BIG HIT.  So if you want to take shots at Buzz you need to wait until next season.   If things do not go as hoped this season the only person to blame is Tom Crean who you seem to hate anyway.  Unless Buzz makes total bone headed plays that cost the team games I can’t see how this years won loss record has much to do with Buzz.  Now next year if the team isn’t constructed well or doesn’t play well then you’d have every right to say maybe he’s not the right guy.  Then you can talk about the flawed process .  You'll also be able to talk about all the new names we should have hired based upon their 2008 -2009 seasons.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I don't think Crean is a two-faced liar, so we cannot agree.

I think he's the world's biggest poser...right down to the fake tan, preference for Hummers and shameless social climbing. He's just loathesome...he's not two-faced. And frankly, I believe the fans at Indiana will pick up on that a lot faster than they did in Milwaukee.

In response to you baiting me into commenting on the other board... just because I think they're completely paranoid and absolute sycophants (the very definition, really) doesn't mean I believe they don't have access to sources within the athletic department. Buzz Williams even referenced IWB by name in his opening press conference (Day 1?).

But CrackedSidewalks has broken more stories!

Fair enough regarding the two faced stuff. Either way, you obviously don't think much of the guy. We can agree on that.

I have one question though (and then we can end the pissing match).

I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around your criticism of www.MarquetteHoops.com and then citing one of the main contributors as factual.

If www.MarquetteHoops.com is a bunch of sycophants, then why do you trust what they are writing? Wouldn't they absolutely write with the slant to make MU look good?

And so what if Buzz Williams mentions Jim at a presser? That doesn't mean you should believe everything Jim says, does it? (personally I think IWB tells the truth, but I'm not calling him a "sycophant")

What's the deal? You think they are MU mouth pieces, but then you site them as factual?

(edited per Sugar's suggestion)

[Henry Sugar]

pet peeve - feel free to call the "other board" by its real name.  MarquetteHoops.com or Dodds' board.  Link to it from time to time if you wish.

It's not like he's Voldemort.

we now return you to your previously scheduled pissing match