Kenosha

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

This is a very true statement.  Yet it seems the vast majority of young people, college students, etc., seem to be very woke.  They will save us from the sins of our elders. 

At times I regret not having children, yet there are times I'm actually grateful too, as I suspect America is going to be an absolute cesspool in 30 years.  Why?  Deterioration of family values, fringe extremists in media/social media dictating to the masses what they can/cannot do, say, believe, (without being called a racist, sexist, xenophobe, misogynist)  and a society that seemingly eschews personal responsibility and wants to immediately point the finger outward.

Life isn't fair. Never has been.  Never will be.  Tough sh$t.  Jeff Bezos is a billionaire and has way more money than he needs.  So what?  You don't like that, don't use his company's services.  Creation of value is what gets rewarded in our society - Amazon provides a valuable service, thus, the market rewards it.  I suspect Jeff Bezos has a lot better ideas how to deploy his capital than some idiot politicians.

It is really sad to see and hear how many people resent the massive succe$$ our country's innovators have achieved, and the good and convenience their innovations bring to the lives of those of us less brilliant, driven, capable.

And what happened in Kenosha is just as sad.  Everything about it.  Young man with a checkered rap sheet, who doesn't want to comply with authority, to overzealous cops that massively overreacted. 

To be honest, we're grateful you didn't have children either.

But seriously, non-marital birth rates are decreasing...divorce rates decreasing...violent crime rate is up this year, but has been decreasing steadily for 20 years.

This idea that the US is on the road to ruin is hilarious.

[MU82]

At times I regret not having children, yet there are times I'm actually grateful too

The rest of us are very grateful you have no offspring.

[vogue65]

Pretty sure our rich have donated massive amounts of their fortunes to all kinds of societal causes.  Not to mention the companies they build employ millions, and generate billions in wages, and tax revenues. 

Further, the top 1% pay 38% of the U.S. Tax bill.  Is a 38x multiple of their size, not "paying their fair share?"

You don't have to prove to me how much Kool-Aid you have drunk.
You don't have to enlighten me about the party line.

No need to argue, you win.  Corporate America has done right by America, profits are good, stocks increase in value, except my  G.E., my fault.

Everything is wonderful, my golf game is under control, my new car is full of gas, my stock portfolio is doing fine, I have a 401(k), my wife has a trust fund, lets party.

My friends in Newark don't have jobs, live in single occupancy rooms, live three famlies in a run down house, have little but a lot of love.  They pool what they have, they share, they help each other.  They have humility and acceptance.  They don't drink your Kool-Aid, they drink real Kool-Aid because the water stinks and the children are thirsty.  They buy yesterday's donuts,  eat a lot of junk food because its cheap and it kills the hunger pains.  They visit relatives in prison due to mass incarceration.

Many use the V.A. because they defended this country and survived.  And because they are poor.

I know, who cares, corporate America is doing a great job of building wealth, educating the masses, creating new industries and meeting market demands. 

Party line talk is interesting, cult behavior is probably in human nature.  Rationalization is always helpful.  We have to justify our behavior and have reasons for our positions. 

Thanks for your tax rap., always good learning about distribution of wealth.

[Elonsmusk]

To be honest, we're grateful you didn't have children either.

But seriously, non-marital birth rates are decreasing...divorce rates decreasing...violent crime rate is up this year, but has been decreasing steadily for 20 years.

This idea that the US is on the road to ruin is hilarious.

The rest of us are very grateful you have no offspring.

These guys.  True comedians.   

That aside, the divide in viewpoint in America is growing quite polar.  I don't see this country as being on the right track.  But, Fluffy, kudos to you for your optimism. 

[vogue65]

To be honest, we're grateful you didn't have children either.

But seriously, non-marital birth rates are decreasing...divorce rates decreasing...violent crime rate is up this year, but has been decreasing steadily for 20 years.

This idea that the US is on the road to ruin is hilarious.

You are right, let's laugh it all off,  it's hilarious, ha, ha, ha. 
Ever see Cabaret?
Probably not if you are an engineer.
How about the song, Willkoman?

Germany had a great country, culture, industry, philosophy, government and something happened and then it all ended.

[Elonsmusk]

You don't have to prove to me how much Kool-Aid you have drunk.
You don't have to enlighten me about the party line.

No need to argue, you win.  Corporate America has done right by America, profits are good, stocks increase in value, except my  G.E., my fault.

Everything is wonderful, my golf game is under control, my new car is full of gas, my stock portfolio is doing fine, I have a 401(k), my wife has a trust fund, lets party.

My friends in Newark don't have jobs, live in single occupancy rooms, live three famlies in a run down house, have little but a lot of love.  They pool what they have, they share, they help each other.  They have humility and acceptance.  They don't drink your Kool-Aid, they drink real Kool-Aid because the water stinks and the children are thirsty.  They buy yesterday's donuts,  eat a lot of junk food because its cheap and it kills the hunger pains.  They visit relatives in prison due to mass incarceration.

Many use the V.A. because they defended this country and survived.  And because they are poor.

I know, who cares, corporate America is doing a great job of building wealth, educating the masses, creating new industries and meeting market demands. 

Party line talk is interesting, cult behavior is probably in human nature.  Rationalization is always helpful.  We have to justify our behavior and have reasons for our positions. 

Thanks for your tax rap., always good learning about distribution of wealth.

You should drive over to Newark and share your portfolio and good fortune with those you mention.  Or, take your portfolio, start your own company/business, and create jobs for those friends.  Why haven't you done so already?  What are you waiting for?

[Jockey]

These guys.  True comedians.   

 

They weren't being funny.

[vogue65]

These guys.  True comedians.   

That aside, the divide in viewpoint in America is growing quite polar.  I don't see this country as being on the right track.  But, Fluffy, kudos to you for your optimism.

Optimism or rose colored glasses, I call it denial.

[vogue65]

This is changing from a rabbit hole to a rat hole, time to sign off, love you all and lets pray for some peace.

[Hards Alumni]

These guys.  True comedians.   

That aside, the divide in viewpoint in America is growing quite polar.  I don't see this country as being on the right track.  But, Fluffy, kudos to you for your optimism.

I guess you'll have to hold our President responsible, and vote for Biden in November!

 

[Elonsmusk]

I guess you'll have to hold our President responsible, and vote for Biden Harris in November!

 

Fixed.   

[Elonsmusk]

They weren't being funny.

I know.  They'd rather the continued disruption of the Western prescribed nuclear family, and advocate for bastard children - frequently brought into this world by people with no college education, job, or means for providing for their children. 

[Hards Alumni]

I know.  They'd rather the continued disruption of the Western prescribed nuclear family, and advocate for bastard children - frequently brought into this world by people with no college education, job, or means for providing for their children.

Honest question, why is the Western nuclear family (as you put it) so desirable?  I have plenty of friends that come from divorced families, and single parent households.  You seem to be implying that children in these situations are doomed to fail.

[rocky_warrior]

So uh...about Kenosha...

[HansMoleman]

Honest question, why is the Western nuclear family (as you put it) so desirable?  I have plenty of friends that come from divorced families, and single parent households.  You seem to be implying that children in these situations are doomed to fail.

He's not implying that at all.  He's saying statistically one family structure is better than the other.

[Elonsmusk]

Honest question, why is the Western nuclear family (as you put it) so desirable?  I have plenty of friends that come from divorced families, and single parent households.  You seem to be implying that children in these situations are doomed to fail.

Honest question:  Do you believe it is desirable to be raised in a single parent household?  Take that a step further:  Do you believe it is desirable to be raised by a single Mom, with limited education, AND one in which the father is absent? 

Unfortunately the rate of absentee fathers in the Black community significantly exceeds that in White/Hispanic/Asian cultures.  Generally it has been accepted and shown that men particularly need a strong male role model in their lives - which likely explains why the violent crime rate, incarceration rate, of Black males, exponentially exceeds that of their percentage of population.

I'm not sure how the government, or white people, are supposed to go about forging better family structures in the Black community?  Problems will persist so long as this absentee father dynamic, coupled with little education plagues the Black community.  But, of course, cops, and society as a whole also has to improve to not stereotype and profile.

The problem is multi-factorial - it is not as simple to just reduce it down to there is "systemic racism," and ACAB.  In my view, embracing personal responsibility is the biggest antidote to ending these tragedies - on both sides of the coin.

[Elonsmusk]

He's not implying that at all.  He's saying statistically one family structure is better than the other.

Yes.  What I just posted above also would apply to kids of any ethnicity.  If you are born into the world with a crappy foundation, your outcome is likely not going to be very good - or it is exponentially more difficult.

[mu_hilltopper]

I think this is a super important topic .. but the current discourse needs a pause as the personal attacks need to stop.

Will re-open later.

[dgies9156]

In changing the direction, I'd propose a single question: Many of us are angry at what has happened in Kenosha, as well as in Minneapolis, Atlanta, Chicago (Laquan McDonald) and other places.

What do you think we should do about it? What tangible steps should be taken now to address the grievances and anger that exists in our country. Whether it be by government, churches or the private sector. What should be done?

I'll start:

1) We need to change the way we train police officers. We need to move away from a paramilitary organization first and more toward an community-based organization that's protecting through, in part, involvement in communities. We need an open and free-form discussion between police officers and the communities they serve aimed at building bridges rather than walls.

2) We need to improve police recruitment. We need more Latino, African-American, female, gay and lesbian and Asian police officers. We also need to encourage college graduates to become police officers and tighten minimum educational standards for police officers.

3) We need tighter gun laws that put more control over gun shows, private sales and other non-registered gun sales. That and society should consider tougher prison sentences and harsher enforcement for persons with unregistered firearms in their possession. If we reduce the number of guns on the street, we reduce the fear that police officers live in and relax the apprehension that police have when confronting citizens.

This is a start. I'm sure everyone on both sides of the political spectrum has ideas. What can we do????

[MU82]

I appreciate the effort, dg. There's plenty of other stuff, but I'll chip in with this:

Either re-allocate resources and/or get new resources to significantly increase the number of psychologists, social workers and similar personnel who can help get cops out of the psychology business.

[naginiF]

This may be a better fit for BLM's 'I love you all' thread.......

I agree with your specific recommendations but I'm at a point where a more fundamental change is needed. I believe that any community, be it neighborhood/city/state/country, is at it's best when every member of that community is doing their best. The 'best' for some is awesome innovation and enablement of great things. The 'best' for others is just making it through the day.....But every member of our community needs help in being their best, surviving the day, capturing their dream.

The issue to me is no longer about a specific position on the 2nd amendment, BLM, law and order, etc. it's now just about "do you care about your fellow human being, treat that person with respect regardless, and help them in an appropriate capacity".

[Lennys Tap]

The issue to me is no longer about a specific position on the 2nd amendment, BLM, law and order, etc. it's now just about "do you care about your fellow human being, treat that person with respect regardless, and help them in an appropriate capacity".

Yep. People are full of passion and certitude in areas where there is room for compromise (policy) and full of equivocation where there should be no room for compromise (treating one another with respect and dignity).

[Hards Alumni]

Great starting place dg.

Additionally, we probably need to stop using police as a catch all when society doesn't know what to do.  They're stuck responding to a lot of society's problems for which they have no training, and asking them to do these things in addition to stop crime is asking too much of one profession.  Branch the police's current responsibilities into several smaller more specialized organizations.  And generally, these 'officers' don't need a service weapon on them... but all of them have body cams.

Health services - attend to needs of homeless, and at risk populations
Traffic services - attend to roads and driving violations
Domestic services - attend to non violent disturbances
Detective services - attend to the investigation of violent crimes (can carry side arm)

This is just a start, I'm sure others could contribute other divisions if they are needed.  Cross training is generally discouraged unless the force is sufficiently small.

Ability of city boards and review boards (comprised of constituents) to have the ability to reprimand and eventually remove any officer.  Plus a database with all officers and oversight.

[MU82]

BODY CAMS!

Be it through federal, state or local funds, every single cop who goes out on assignment must wear and must use a body cam.

The failure to turn on a body cam will result in at least a one-month suspension without pay. If multiple officers are on the same assignment and they all conveniently "forget" to turn on their body cams, it will be assumed they were conspiring in a lie and they will be fired. If an officer claims the body cam malfunctioned and it's discovered he or she was lying, he or she will be fired, and not allowed to be hired again in law enforcement anywhere in the United States.

It's sad, but we no longer can give officers the benefit of the doubt in he said/he said situations. We absolutely need video evidence of every encounter with the public. Period.

[Babybluejeans]

I’ll add that we have to fix the culture of blanket immunity—the sniveling face of Derek Chauvin spoke volumes about police entitlement and lack of accountability more broadly. Police union protection is one area of reform, and so is the legal system’s treatment of police (e.g., qualified immunity).

But the whole foundation is problematic. It’s become an adversarial system, where police are de facto against the people they’re entrusted to protect. The British model, where officers exist to HELP and KEEP PEACE, generally works—but to do that here requires such substantial cultural changes I’m not it’s possible without scrapping and starting over. And that’s what I think is necessary, ultimately.