Kenosha

[vogue65]

I thought this was one of the more intelligent comments in this entire thread. It shows an understanding of what is happening in way too many locales throughout America and it's at the root of the income equality many perceive to be a huge underlying issue in the United States.

In the late 1970s and early 1980s, I lived in Rock Island, IL (the Quad Cities). At that time, the region was fueled by the "blue collar dream" where African-American, Caucasian and Hispanic folks worked at UAW-represented ag-imp and construction implement plants, or at firms (like the Rock Island Lines) that supported the ag-imp industry. In four short years, a variety of management mistakes, a nasty recession, labor strife, automation and off-shoring led to unemployment rates that increased from about 3.9 percent to nearly 30 percent.

Today, the area still suffers from deindustrialization. The training that was promised to replace manufacturing with "new economy" jobs failed to deliver. People that made $30,000 plus a year in 1979 probably never made that much again. Their children either left the area or held jobs that paid a fraction in real terms of what their parents or grandparents made. The problems that led to an industrial exodus from the Quad Cities and left the area unable to replace what left still exist today.

As Brother Vogue points out, there are a lot of other communities like the Quad Cities out there. The biggest single problem on the South Side of Chicago has been the loss of industrial jobs over the last 50 years. Companies like Wisconsin Steel, Sears, Pullman, US Steel, Armour, Swift and a host of others declared bankruptcy or closed antiquated plants. Even companies like Ford Motor, which still manufacturers automobiles on Torrance Avenue, needs far fewer persons to assemble cars than they once did.

If we want to improve the plight of African Americans, we have to begin by encouraging investment in places like Flint, the Quad Cities, Chicago, St. Louis and elsewhere. The investment has to be real and the opportunity such that those who've experienced poverty and inequality can hold jobs and grow their way back into the middle class. We've tried for more than 50 years and I can't say we have come close to solving this problem.

I know nobody wants to acknowledge this, but before the Covid-19 pandemic, the "Great Satan", as many people view him, had our country headed in this direction. Unemployment in African-American communities was at its lowest level in recorded history. Real wages were rising. The efforts to put tariffs on imported goods was in no small measure designed to level the playing field and ensure our plants and our people were treated fairly. I hope that whomever is elected this fall continues this effort.

 

We agree, and I'll add to the list mergers & acquistions.  I was in Rockford at Sunstrand the day Raytheon baught them.   It was like someone had done a mass shooting.  The merger or acquisition, can't remember which, meant no more h.r., legal, accounting, finance, p.r., B.O.D., and top management.  People were so distraught they were bringing me whistle blower stuff.

I know it's capitalism, but it is capitalisms fatal flaw.  The system has to take care of everyone for the common good or we all go down together.  Putting income inequality into the solution would be a very good idea.

Joe Stiglitz says it all.

I have worked on industrial base assessments and the situation is bleak.  Ship yards, steel mills, rare earths, heat treating, electronics, forgings, bearings, you name it, mostly or all gone.

Can the service economy pick up the slack?  UPS, Prime, SEARS home service, and joe the plumber.

Does Kenosha have enough service jobs for the famlies who moved from the south to work in the factories of Kenosha?

How many financial advisors, bankers, accountants, lawyers, small business franchisees can the economy support?

O.K. the demonstrators at night are not BLM, then who are they?

Unemployed youth, angry young men, they are not the entitled few watching the convention.

[dgies9156]

People can have the Kenosha thread back in one second.

Fact Check:

Black Unemployment went from 17% to 8% under Obama. I must have missed this in your post. The current administration didn't even improve it a third of that. Then Under President Pandemic, it rose back to 17%.

The regurgitation of false facts, misleading statements, and or straight lies requires daily point by point correction.

I'm sure all of the money will just trickle down though. Oh look here... In the news this week, Jeff Bezos, hitting the $200 billion net worth. Research shows he has donated, wait for it, less than 0.2 % of his net worth to charity and refused the giving pledge when asked. But I digress.

I'm less concerned about "who" did what and more about how we move forward. Heck, I'll give credit to everyone, but let's get down to work and put some of Mr. Bezos' net worth to work with investments in communities that need it.

[vogue65]

This part of it is also sad to me. It appears this kid was raised with guns, fed this ideology, and no adults intervened.

The adults are just like the kid.

[Hards Alumni]

I'm less concerned about "who" did what and more about how we move forward. Heck, I'll give credit to everyone, but let's get down to work and put some of Mr. Bezos' net worth to work with investments in communities that need it.

I'm down.

[vogue65]

I’ve been forced to the ground by a suburban police officer with my friends, wrong place wrong time, at night when they were looking for recent mailbox vandalism and decided we seemed likely. Flashlight in faces, yelling for compliance, call for back up as another car rolls up. We had done nothing wrong, and it was still unnatural carnal knowledgeing terrifying.

I’ve mentioned before walking with my buddy, who is AA, in a nicer neighborhood after leaving the bars, cops roll up, pop out and grab him and have him against a car before even asking for ID, pushing me aside and telling me “go the unnatural carnal knowledge home or it’s gonna be a problem”, cause he “fit the description” for a recent armed robbery (cause most robberies are done in jeans, button downs, and lace ups). They were in the process of cuffing him and putting him in the squad car before the radio chirped to let them now they had apprehended the actual suspect.

Acting like every encounter with the police, especially when they are agitated/annoyed/etc.. due to any number of factors is as casual and placid as a traffic stop, with a driver with a spotless record, is laughably naive.  I’ve had many great encounters with police, but I’ve had a few that made me sweat, and that’s as a reasonably affluent white male, I can only imagine how it must be for other demos.

Thats how they are trained and recruted.
Saw Kenosha chief today on t.v..  Could not have been a nicer man.  Full of compashion, understanding, a P.R. mans ideal spokesperson.

So what.

[vogue65]

Depends on which video you watch. One shows only him being attacked, and in that situation alone, would have the right to open fire.

The other, which shows him actually murder someone, tells the whole story.

That is one solution.
Another is for the mob, FOX loves that word, to come armed tonight.
That is no solution.

Just a thought.

Wisconsin is sending police, state police, National Guard from all over the state and from surrounding states.  That is very good.

What if there are riots in Madison, Mikwaukee, Green Bay, Appleton, and Janesville tonight?

[shoothoops]

I'm less concerned about "who" did what and more about how we move forward. Heck, I'll give credit to everyone, but let's get down to work and put some of Mr. Bezos' net worth to work with investments in communities that need it.

I am down for the Wealth Tax as well. Count me in on that, because he hasn’t given squat.

I am not the one who praised the current President and listed examples of things where he has things headed in the right direction when he doesn’t and others did. You literally passed off an accomplishment of his predecessor as his. When confronted and corrected by facts, you say you don’t care about credit. You cared enough in your original post to mention it. And facts do matter. Having qualified people in qualified positions matters, ...quite a bit actually.

What are the specific police reforms you’d like to see to improve the lives of Black and Minority people?

What are your specific gun reforms as well?

And this can be Kenosha related, as it is the Kenosha thread. 👍

[vogue65]

Same in Burlington Wisconsin. Was walking from the camp I was working at into town, when from behind me I heard “stop, turn around with your hands up” Cop already had his gun pointed at me before I even turned around. All because I matched a description of “dark clothing”

Proceeded to attempt to gaslight me back at camp saying things like “I know you did it” and “just admit it now so everything is easier and you’ll get in less trouble”

Thats how they are trained, that is how they are recruted.
Do you notice a similarity with all these stories?

[vogue65]

People can have the Kenosha thread back in one second.

Fact Check:

Black Unemployment went from 17% to 8% under Obama. I must have missed this in your post. The current administration didn't even improve it a third of that. Then Under President Pandemic, it rose back to 17%.

The regurgitation of false facts, misleading statements, and or straight lies requires daily point by point correction.

I'm sure all of the money will just trickle down though. Oh look here... In the news this week, Jeff Bezos, hitting the $200 billion net worth. Research shows he has donated, wait for it, less than 0.2 % of his net worth to charity and refused the giving pledge when asked. But I digress.

He needs to be motivated.

[vogue65]

I'm less concerned about "who" did what and more about how we move forward. Heck, I'll give credit to everyone, but let's get down to work and put some of Mr. Bezos' net worth to work with investments in communities that need it.

They argue trickle down nonsence.
And most of them have nothing to trickle down except their leg.  Sorry.

I don't know Bezos, but I'd bet his assets are in boats, planes, houses, heavy metal cars, metals, T bills, and after the first trickle, nothing trickles down.

I misspoke, a few boats, planes, homes, and cars.

I could be wrong, as I said, I  don't know anything about the man. 

[vogue65]

Have you been to Palm Beach?
I have many times.
Polite society has rejected Mr. T. so he had to build his personal club.

Have you been to Bedminster?
I live a few miles from his golf club, same story.
R's and D's can't stand him.

One half doesn't know how the other half lives.
One half doesn't know how the 1% live.
The people of Kenosha, police, demonstrators, honest hard working citizens don't have a clue.

They will risk their lives tonight and it will mean nothing to the powerful.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Info coming out on the shooter from Antioch. Exactly who you'd expect him to be.

[shoothoops]

He needs to be motivated.

I am all for people making money, good money, even big money. 👍

But as I posted recently in a different thread, CEO’s now make 320 times more than the typical worker.

Maybe take some of hose billions in wealthy corporate stimulus and actually give it directly to those who need it most during a Pandemic. And perhaps, also use some of that $ for early childhood education, healthcare, training and development etc in places such as Kenosha, and many other places USA. Feel free to use some to educate, train, and recruit police departments that that understand community policing and all that it entails.

[GooooMarquette]

I'm less concerned about "who" did what and more about how we move forward. Heck, I'll give credit to everyone, but let's get down to work and put some of Mr. Bezos' net worth to work with investments in communities that need it.

Bingo.

Too much wealth is concentrated in the hands of too few people...all of whom could give a few hundred million to the common good without even having to fire a butler....

[vogue65]

Info coming out on the shooter from Antioch. Exactly who you'd expect him to be.

Problem is there are thousands like him in the weeds.

[vogue65]

Bingo.

Too much wealth is concentrated in the hands of too few people...all of whom could give a few hundred million to the common good without even having to fire a butler....

If it were only so.

They can't, it is not within them.  Ego, greed, competition among themselves, lack of empathy, self centeredness.  Only we the people can do that.  I wish Kenosha the best tonight.  There will be another shooting, another night to protest.

[shoothoops]

Bingo.

Too much wealth is concentrated in the hands of too few people...all of whom could give a few hundred million to the common good without even having to fire a butler....

https://www.epi.org/publication/ceo-compensation-surged-14-in-2019-to-21-3-million-ceos-now-earn-320-times-as-much-as-a-typical-worker/

[NCMUFan]

I thought this was one of the more intelligent comments in this entire thread. It shows an understanding of what is happening in way too many locales throughout America and it's at the root of the income equality many perceive to be a huge underlying issue in the United States.

In the late 1970s and early 1980s, I lived in Rock Island, IL (the Quad Cities). At that time, the region was fueled by the "blue collar dream" where African-American, Caucasian and Hispanic folks worked at UAW-represented ag-imp and construction implement plants, or at firms (like the Rock Island Lines) that supported the ag-imp industry. In four short years, a variety of management mistakes, a nasty recession, labor strife, automation and off-shoring led to unemployment rates that increased from about 3.9 percent to nearly 30 percent.

Today, the area still suffers from deindustrialization. The training that was promised to replace manufacturing with "new economy" jobs failed to deliver. People that made $30,000 plus a year in 1979 probably never made that much again. Their children either left the area or held jobs that paid a fraction in real terms of what their parents or grandparents made. The problems that led to an industrial exodus from the Quad Cities and left the area unable to replace what left still exist today.

As Brother Vogue points out, there are a lot of other communities like the Quad Cities out there. The biggest single problem on the South Side of Chicago has been the loss of industrial jobs over the last 50 years. Companies like Wisconsin Steel, Sears, Pullman, US Steel, Armour, Swift and a host of others declared bankruptcy or closed antiquated plants. Even companies like Ford Motor, which still manufacturers automobiles on Torrance Avenue, needs far fewer persons to assemble cars than they once did.

If we want to improve the plight of African Americans, we have to begin by encouraging investment in places like Flint, the Quad Cities, Chicago, St. Louis and elsewhere. The investment has to be real and the opportunity such that those who've experienced poverty and inequality can hold jobs and grow their way back into the middle class. We've tried for more than 50 years and I can't say we have come close to solving this problem.

I know nobody wants to acknowledge this, but before the Covid-19 pandemic, the "Great Satan", as many people view him, had our country headed in this direction. Unemployment in African-American communities was at its lowest level in recorded history. Real wages were rising. The efforts to put tariffs on imported goods was in no small measure designed to level the playing field and ensure our plants and our people were treated fairly. I hope that whomever is elected this fall continues this effort.

 

I have always been a proponent of blue collar jobs as a stepping stone to a better life for future generations.  It was the model that my family benefited from. 
In Kenosha, my grandparents immigrated from Europe.  Grandfather first worked at Simmons mattress and then AMC.  Grandparents and parents who put family life first.

Kenosha is taking its knocks now, but as earlier posters said, will probably become the third largest city in Wisconsin shortly.
Why?  Because it offers opportunity that few places in the USA does.
It has a micro-economy of its own.
It benefits from the prosperity of Chicago with businesses wanting to be in close proximity to Chicago but not having to deal with all the negatives of Chicago.
This area of the Midwest is also a strong union area.  Hence giving blue collar workers a better wage than other areas of the country.
People can try to trash on Kenosha, but it gives immigrants, minorities and starting businesses a good chance to succeed. 
One cannot force someone to take advantage of opportunity.
Very tragic what happened, and wrongs must be righted.  But there are a lot of positives about Kenosha for everyone. Which is why it is growing and prospering.
Ok, off my soap box now.

[MU82]

I am all for people making money, good money, even big money. 👍

But as I posted recently in a different thread, CEO’s now make 320 times more than the typical worker.

Maybe take some of hose billions in wealthy corporate stimulus and actually give it directly to those who need it most during a Pandemic. And perhaps, also use some of that $ for early childhood education, healthcare, training and development etc in places such as Kenosha, and many other places USA. Feel free to use some to educate, train, and recruit police departments that that understand community policing and all that it entails.

Bill Gates literally has given away billions, and he has pledged to give away just about everything he owns ... and yet he still has become a target for supporting the "wrong" causes. In some comment streams, he's supposedly engineering vaccines that would make a religious person start hating God. I mean, who can make this stuff up?

But yes, it would be great if more of these rich folks did more.

My personal pet peeve is when a billionaire owns a sports franchise and then, while blackmailing taxpayers into building him a new stadium, he donates a relative pittance to something and gets his name on stuff.

So, for example, you had Jerry Richardson threatening to move the Panthers if we didn't pay nearly $100 million for improvements to the stadium. He then turned around and gave away $10 million to UNC-Charlotte and now his name is on their stadium. I'd have rather just had us taxpayers give the $10 million to UNCC. We could call it Taxpayer Stadium, we'd be $90 million richer and we wouldn't have a d-bag sexual predator's name on the football stadium of the city's only major university.

[tower912]

The 17 year old shooter/murderer posted a Tik Tok video of himself near the stage during DJT's January campaign rally.

[shoothoops]

Bill Gates literally has given away billions, and he has pledged to give away just about everything he owns ... and yet he still has become a target for supporting the "wrong" causes. In some comment streams, he's supposedly engineering vaccines that would make a religious person start hating God. I mean, who can make this stuff up?

But yes, it would be great if more of these rich folks did more.

My personal pet peeve is when a billionaire owns a sports franchise and then, while blackmailing taxpayers into building him a new stadium, he donates a relative pittance to something and gets his name on stuff.

So, for example, you had Jerry Richardson threatening to move the Panthers if we didn't pay nearly $100 million for improvements to the stadium. He then turned around and gave away $10 million to UNC-Charlotte and now his name is on their stadium. I'd have rather just had us taxpayers give the $10 million to UNCC. We could call it Taxpayer Stadium, we'd be $90 million richer and we wouldn't have a d-bag sexual predator's name on the football stadium of the city's only major university.

Charlotte also has David Tepper, wealthiest NFL owner at $12 billion plus asking $110 million in public money for his new project. Not saying he hasn’t done good things for Charlotte or Pittsburgh because he has. But I mean c’mon. Perhaps buy one less toy instead of taking public money for this one.

Each person is a unique individual
deserving of individual examination. The general point is clear in the ever increasing wealth divide as those net worths seem to being going up and not down.

Not enough people with all of the money gives too bleeps about those in need. Some do some don’t. But not enough, and certainly not relative to worth.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

The 17 year old shooter/murderer posted a Tik Tok video of himself near the stage during DJT's January campaign rally.

Doughy white incel with a severe gun fetish that idolizes Trump and occupies front row at his rallies? Check. As I said above, he is exactly who you would have imagined.

[Galway Eagle]

Doughy white incel with a severe gun fetish that idolizes Trump and occupies front row at his rallies? Check. As I said above, he is exactly who you would have imagined.

He's famous now so he got his wish

[MU82]

Charlotte also has David Tepper, wealthiest NFL owner at $12 billion plus asking $110 million in public money for his new project. Not saying he hasn’t done good things for Charlotte or Pittsburgh because he has. But I mean c’mon. Perhaps buy one less toy instead of taking public money for this one.

Each person is a unique individual
deserving of individual examination. The general point is clear in the ever increasing wealth divide as those net worths seem to being going up and not down.

Not enough people with all of the money gives too bleeps about those in need. Some do some don’t. But not enough, and certainly not relative to worth.

Yep. So far, Tepper has been a disappointment in that regard.

[jesmu84]

OT: Billionaires are bad for society