Kenosha

[NCMUFan]

I'll try to get back down there today. Yesterday afternoon when I was downtown, the activity was like any normal day. Plenty of people walking, lots of bikers, decent amount of traffic. What was surreal is that every 1st floor window on the main drag was boarded, also many 2nd and 3rd floor windows as well. Highway 32 (Sheridan Road), near downtown was impassable. Cement barriers and large trucks blocked all entry near the downtown area.

At the time I was there, protests were already forming on the west side maybe 4-5 miles from downtown) and moving toward downtown. Talked to a couple people I knew who were marching and it was pretty peaceful for a while before it got ugly. On the way downtown,  there was major damage and fires set in the Uptown area (center of town).

Thanks Jockey.  Just curious, were you in Kenosha for the protests, family, business?

[MUfan12]

What the h@ll kind of nation do we live in that openly allows a 17 year old kid to go out into a volatile situation fully armed?

This part of it is also sad to me. It appears this kid was raised with guns, fed this ideology, and no adults intervened.

[GB Warrior]

Robin Vos is an evil man who is probably running for governor


https://twitter.com/MollyBeck/status/1298662169576222720?s=19


WI GOP not interested in facts (National Guard, ATF and FBI all on the ground) or action. As with COVID, they are gleeful when people - and mostly PoC - die in this state so they can tag it to Evers.

[JWags85]

LOL, how many times have you been pulled over, told to get on the ground, and put your hands behind your back?


All of this "what I would do" from white people who have never actually experienced the terror of a cop with a gun at your head is pretty choice.

I’ve been forced to the ground by a suburban police officer with my friends, wrong place wrong time, at night when they were looking for recent mailbox vandalism and decided we seemed likely. Flashlight in faces, yelling for compliance, call for back up as another car rolls up. We had done nothing wrong, and it was still unnatural carnal knowledgeing terrifying.

I’ve mentioned before walking with my buddy, who is AA, in a nicer neighborhood after leaving the bars, cops roll up, pop out and grab him and have him against a car before even asking for ID, pushing me aside and telling me “go the unnatural carnal knowledge home or it’s gonna be a problem”, cause he “fit the description” for a recent armed robbery (cause most robberies are done in jeans, button downs, and lace ups). They were in the process of cuffing him and putting him in the squad car before the radio chirped to let them now they had apprehended the actual suspect.

Acting like every encounter with the police, especially when they are agitated/annoyed/etc.. due to any number of factors is as casual and placid as a traffic stop, with a driver with a spotless record, is laughably naive.  I’ve had many great encounters with police, but I’ve had a few that made me sweat, and that’s as a reasonably affluent white male, I can only imagine how it must be for other demos.

[Billy Hoyle]

Yes.  Just google "Kyle Rittenhouse"

And I must admit that I got a chuckle out of the idea that you are supposed to call Crime Stoppers about this.

well, with the "abolish the police crowd" being so loud it's the future.

"41 shots
Lena gets her son ready for school
She says, "On these streets, Charles
You've got to understand the rules
If an officer stops you
Promise me you'll always be polite
And that you'll never ever run away
Promise Mama, you'll keep your hands in sight"

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Robin Vos is an evil man who is probably running for governor


https://twitter.com/MollyBeck/status/1298662169576222720?s=19


WI GOP not interested in facts (National Guard, ATF and FBI all on the ground) or action. As with COVID, they are gleeful when people - and mostly PoC - die in this state so they can tag it to Evers.

The quality of our political discourse has gotten so awful.  What does a statement like this do?  I mean, I know what they want to accomplish, but how is this in any way productive?  Does the ends justify the means?

[🏀]

Any MUScoopers from Kenosha that would like to share what is happening there?
Personally, I would like to hear it from the residents not media.

My office is blocks away, I've been here everyday this week. The majority of our employees are from Kenosha.

What would you like to know?

[Jockey]

My office is blocks away, I've been here everyday this week. The majority of our employees are from Kenosha.

What would you like to know?

Whereabouts is your office located? What part of town?

Last place I lived in Kenosha was 24th and Roosevelt right next to where all the fires were.

[Uncle Rico]

Most likely on the outskirts of downtown. The main drag from the Boathouse to the Library -about a 12 block stretch - was boarded but undamaged.

I think so.  Got a pic of the Festival Foods entrance being blocked by a semi.  If I remember correctly, that’s on the east side of town

[🏀]

Whereabouts is your office located? What part of town?

Last place I lived in Kenosha was 24th and Roosevelt right next to where all the fires were.

52nd, between Green Bay and Sheridan.

[Coleman]

The quality of our political discourse has gotten so awful.  What does a statement like this do?  I mean, I know what they want to accomplish, but how is this in any way productive?  Does the ends justify the means?

We are now in a zero-sum trench warfare scenario where there is zero incentive for anyone to work with the other side.

Tangent: I am reading this book now, and it is excellent. I highly recommend it to everyone who has concerns about the future of our country: https://www.amazon.com/Breaking-Two-Party-Doom-Loop-Multiparty/dp/0190913851

[BM1090]

I hate that I let anything surprise me anymore, but I truly cannot believe that there is a large group of people defending Kyle Rittenhouse's actions.

[#UnleashSean]

I hate that I let anything surprise me anymore, but I truly cannot believe that there is a large group of people defending Kyle Rittenhouse's actions.

Depends on which video you watch. One shows only him being attacked, and in that situation alone, would have the right to open fire.

The other, which shows him actually murder someone, tells the whole story.

[JWags85]

Depends on which video you watch. One shows only him being attacked, and in that situation alone, would have the right to open fire.

The other, which shows him actually murder someone, tells the whole story.

Right, I’ve seen people defending the video of him shooting the guy in the chest as self defense, which I sort of get in a vacuum as he was being attacked in the video...except that he was being attacked cause he had already shot somebody. On top of the fact that he crossed state lines with an assault rifle looking for a violence. 

What I never get is that you could be super anti-protests, Blue Lives Matter, all of that...but not defend this dude cause he makes your “tribe” look terrible.  People feel the need to snap defend dumb stuff cause the person shared some sort of justified belief with them.

[SaveOD238]

Any MUScoopers from Kenosha that would like to share what is happening there?
Personally, I would like to hear it from the residents not media.

I live in Mt Pleasant and work at St. Catherine's HS in Racine.  My wife works in Kenosha about two miles west from last night's incident.

She has been sent home early from work each of the last two days (today at 3pm) and the office opened later than normal.  She said businesses and strip malls all the way out to Green Bay road are boarded up.  That's a pretty good distance from downtown.

As for me, I haven't seen much outside of what I've seen on social media.  I did have a student who works in Kenosha tell me she went to Monday's protests and was tear-gassed outside the courthouse. 

[NCMUFan]

Thanks Jockey & Retire0:
K-Town is my hometown but have lived elsewhere for the past 33 years.
Just wanted hometown perspectives on what is happening.
Can't say how sad I am.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Kenosha Police Chief giving an interview saying "if these people would have only followed curfew...."

Not a good look.

[BM1090]

Kenosha Police Chief giving an interview saying "if these people would have only followed curfew...."

Not a good look.

Also said the shooter came up from Illinois to "resolve whatever conflict was in place".

His whole statement was a disaster.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Ah yes.  We have entered the "blaming the guy who got shot" stage of this nonsense.

Was there ever a doubt that was where that particular poster would go?

[TSmith34, Inc.]

What the h@ll kind of nation do we live in that openly allows a 17 year old kid to go out into a volatile situation fully armed?

Wayne says hi.

[dgies9156]

The topic is Kenosha.  Been there three times, once for a tour of the American Motors plant, before we deindustrialized the country and trashed our auto industry. It was and is a backwater (Hope that didn't offend anyone), then and now.

We have real problems with small cities that were former industrial centers, places like Kenosha.

Off the top of my verbose head are, Gary, Richmond, Hartford, Erie, Harrisburg, Newark, St. Louis, Flint, Youngstown, New Britain,  Akron, Syracuse, Trenton, Bridgeport,  Birmingham, Rockford, etc..  If something doesn't change they will blow up.  There are hundreds of them, and every one has a large minority population.

Think big, think strategically, think the future,  if you can.

They have been left behind by corporate America, Wall Street.  Wall Street does not care about black people, poor people, sick people ( unless they can take over a hospital and sell stock) or run a insurance scam.

I thought this was one of the more intelligent comments in this entire thread. It shows an understanding of what is happening in way too many locales throughout America and it's at the root of the income equality many perceive to be a huge underlying issue in the United States.

In the late 1970s and early 1980s, I lived in Rock Island, IL (the Quad Cities). At that time, the region was fueled by the "blue collar dream" where African-American, Caucasian and Hispanic folks worked at UAW-represented ag-imp and construction implement plants, or at firms (like the Rock Island Lines) that supported the ag-imp industry. In four short years, a variety of management mistakes, a nasty recession, labor strife, automation and off-shoring led to unemployment rates that increased from about 3.9 percent to nearly 30 percent.

Today, the area still suffers from deindustrialization. The training that was promised to replace manufacturing with "new economy" jobs failed to deliver. People that made $30,000 plus a year in 1979 probably never made that much again. Their children either left the area or held jobs that paid a fraction in real terms of what their parents or grandparents made. The problems that led to an industrial exodus from the Quad Cities and left the area unable to replace what left still exist today.

As Brother Vogue points out, there are a lot of other communities like the Quad Cities out there. The biggest single problem on the South Side of Chicago has been the loss of industrial jobs over the last 50 years. Companies like Wisconsin Steel, Sears, Pullman, US Steel, Armour, Swift and a host of others declared bankruptcy or closed antiquated plants. Even companies like Ford Motor, which still manufacturers automobiles on Torrance Avenue, needs far fewer persons to assemble cars than they once did.

If we want to improve the plight of African Americans, we have to begin by encouraging investment in places like Flint, the Quad Cities, Chicago, St. Louis and elsewhere. The investment has to be real and the opportunity such that those who've experienced poverty and inequality can hold jobs and grow their way back into the middle class. We've tried for more than 50 years and I can't say we have come close to solving this problem.

I know nobody wants to acknowledge this, but before the Covid-19 pandemic, the "Great Satan", as many people view him, had our country headed in this direction. Unemployment in African-American communities was at its lowest level in recorded history. Real wages were rising. The efforts to put tariffs on imported goods was in no small measure designed to level the playing field and ensure our plants and our people were treated fairly. I hope that whomever is elected this fall continues this effort.

   

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

I’ve been forced to the ground by a suburban police officer with my friends, wrong place wrong time, at night when they were looking for recent mailbox vandalism and decided we seemed likely. Flashlight in faces, yelling for compliance, call for back up as another car rolls up. We had done nothing wrong, and it was still unnatural carnal knowledgeing terrifying.

I’ve mentioned before walking with my buddy, who is AA, in a nicer neighborhood after leaving the bars, cops roll up, pop out and grab him and have him against a car before even asking for ID, pushing me aside and telling me “go the unnatural carnal knowledge home or it’s gonna be a problem”, cause he “fit the description” for a recent armed robbery (cause most robberies are done in jeans, button downs, and lace ups). They were in the process of cuffing him and putting him in the squad car before the radio chirped to let them now they had apprehended the actual suspect.

Acting like every encounter with the police, especially when they are agitated/annoyed/etc.. due to any number of factors is as casual and placid as a traffic stop, with a driver with a spotless record, is laughably naive.  I’ve had many great encounters with police, but I’ve had a few that made me sweat, and that’s as a reasonably affluent white male, I can only imagine how it must be for other demos.

Same in Burlington Wisconsin. Was walking from the camp I was working at into town, when from behind me I heard “stop, turn around with your hands up” Cop already had his gun pointed at me before I even turned around. All because I matched a description of “dark clothing”

Proceeded to attempt to gaslight me back at camp saying things like “I know you did it” and “just admit it now so everything is easier and you’ll get in less trouble”

[MU82]

I’ve been forced to the ground by a suburban police officer with my friends, wrong place wrong time, at night when they were looking for recent mailbox vandalism and decided we seemed likely. Flashlight in faces, yelling for compliance, call for back up as another car rolls up. We had done nothing wrong, and it was still unnatural carnal knowledgeing terrifying.

I’ve mentioned before walking with my buddy, who is AA, in a nicer neighborhood after leaving the bars, cops roll up, pop out and grab him and have him against a car before even asking for ID, pushing me aside and telling me “go the unnatural carnal knowledge home or it’s gonna be a problem”, cause he “fit the description” for a recent armed robbery (cause most robberies are done in jeans, button downs, and lace ups). They were in the process of cuffing him and putting him in the squad car before the radio chirped to let them now they had apprehended the actual suspect.

Acting like every encounter with the police, especially when they are agitated/annoyed/etc.. due to any number of factors is as casual and placid as a traffic stop, with a driver with a spotless record, is laughably naive.  I’ve had many great encounters with police, but I’ve had a few that made me sweat, and that’s as a reasonably affluent white male, I can only imagine how it must be for other demos.

Thanks for sharing this, Wags. Scary stuff.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Bucks boycotting playoff game and Brewers meeting to discuss their game vs. Reds...

[shoothoops]

I thought this was one of the more intelligent comments in this entire thread. It shows an understanding of what is happening in way too many locales throughout America and it's at the root of the income equality many perceive to be a huge underlying issue in the United States.

In the late 1970s and early 1980s, I lived in Rock Island, IL (the Quad Cities). At that time, the region was fueled by the "blue collar dream" where African-American, Caucasian and Hispanic folks worked at UAW-represented ag-imp and construction implement plants, or at firms (like the Rock Island Lines) that supported the ag-imp industry. In four short years, a variety of management mistakes, a nasty recession, labor strife, automation and off-shoring led to unemployment rates that increased from about 3.9 percent to nearly 30 percent.

Today, the area still suffers from deindustrialization. The training that was promised to replace manufacturing with "new economy" jobs failed to deliver. People that made $30,000 plus a year in 1979 probably never made that much again. Their children either left the area or held jobs that paid a fraction in real terms of what their parents or grandparents made. The problems that led to an industrial exodus from the Quad Cities and left the area unable to replace what left still exist today.

As Brother Vogue points out, there are a lot of other communities like the Quad Cities out there. The biggest single problem on the South Side of Chicago has been the loss of industrial jobs over the last 50 years. Companies like Wisconsin Steel, Sears, Pullman, US Steel, Armour, Swift and a host of others declared bankruptcy or closed antiquated plants. Even companies like Ford Motor, which still manufacturers automobiles on Torrance Avenue, needs far fewer persons to assemble cars than they once did.

If we want to improve the plight of African Americans, we have to begin by encouraging investment in places like Flint, the Quad Cities, Chicago, St. Louis and elsewhere. The investment has to be real and the opportunity such that those who've experienced poverty and inequality can hold jobs and grow their way back into the middle class. We've tried for more than 50 years and I can't say we have come close to solving this problem.

I know nobody wants to acknowledge this, but before the Covid-19 pandemic, the "Great Satan", as many people view him, had our country headed in this direction. Unemployment in African-American communities was at its lowest level in recorded history. Real wages were rising. The efforts to put tariffs on imported goods was in no small measure designed to level the playing field and ensure our plants and our people were treated fairly. I hope that whomever is elected this fall continues this effort.

 

People can have the Kenosha thread back in one second.

Fact Check:

Black Unemployment went from 17% to 8% under Obama. I must have missed this in your post. The current administration didn't even improve it a third of that. Then Under President Pandemic, it rose back to 17%.

The regurgitation of false facts, misleading statements, and or straight lies requires daily point by point correction.

I'm sure all of the money will just trickle down though. Oh look here... In the news this week, Jeff Bezos, hitting the $200 billion net worth. Research shows he has donated, wait for it, less than 0.2 % of his net worth to charity and refused the giving pledge when asked. But I digress.