Kenosha

[vogue65]

Let's not rush to judgment. We need to wait for the full story to emerge. I'm not convinced we've heard or seen it all. People who think they know, including Wisconsin's governor, are way ahead of the investigation and I fear they are trying to influence the outcome before the facts are known.

Patience is a virtue, especially if the goal is to get it right. I understand the anger and the bad feelings but do you want justice or retribution? Those are two very different things!

Look, if the police officers violated the civil rights of a Kenosha resident, by all means, throw the book at them. But let's make sure they acted outside the law and outside their training. If they didn't, then the broader question is whether the rules they followed were appropriate and if not, how do we change them. But don't deprive them of their legal protections. Don't deprive them of their union, to which they have a right, and above all, make sure the results of the investigation are agents of positive change.

If we strip away their union rights and reduce administrative protections against officers who parts of society believe have done them wrong, then a community will have an entirely different type of policing and an entirely different level of protection. What we really have to do is define what we want our police departments to do and then hire people who best fit the mission and develop training to imprint that mission on every officer.

Get out of here, there has been forbearance for 200 years.  You sound like a typical right wing lawyer taking the high road.  This is war not a political issue.  Politics has failed.  When politics fails war ensues.

So you become a cop and you have a job for 20 years no matter what you do?

[Elonsmusk]

Your posting history does not suggest you are a grown man, but a frustrated, pathetic, lonely racist who feels the world he knew slipping away from him. I fully understand why you fell for the whole maga con.

I actually feel sorry for you, with all the non-Caucasian folks you loathe about to put people like you on the scrap heap of history.

But for now, you are lucky to have a racist emperor to worship, and it’s certainly possible he’ll get 4 more years. Enjoy bending the knee while you can, though. Whether it’s 2020, 2024 or 2028, the times they are a’changin’.

Black Lives Matter. We Are Marquette!

Some nice fantasy you’ve concocted in your mind 82. None of which is true (other than Trump May get re-elected.)

You do realize being called racist by an ignorant, small-minded man like you doesn’t carry any weight? It’s par for the course for the intellectually inferior and hypocritical point of view that permeates the “thinking” of radical, left-wing extremist liberals like you.

Your kind are just as reprehensible as the extremist white supremacists on the extreme right.  Neither faction wants to have an honest discussion about race issues in America.

And btw. Of course black lives matter. Just as traditional, western family values do too (in Western culture). 

[Elonsmusk]

Get out of here, there has been forbearance for 200 years.  You sound like a typical right wing lawyer taking the high road.  This is war not a political issue.  Politics has failed.  When politics fails war ensues.

So you become a cop and you have a job for 20 years no matter what you do?

[/b]

You can thank your radical left wing support of union culture for this reality. Unions are a joke. Nothing more than a pyramid scheme and protective mechanism for the worst in the membership.

The age of sweatshops in America and lack of employee rights has been gone for the better part of the last 50 years. Then again, you seem stuck in the 60s/70s.

[Galway Eagle]

Your kind are just as reprehensible as the extremist white supremacists on the extreme right.  Neither faction wants to have an honest discussion about race issues in America.
 

It's this type of false equivalency that is why nobody can take you seriously. One side is about actively hating minority groups and ensuring they know they are inferior. Another is just as closed minded but is trying to achieve equality. Saying they are the same is why people view you through the lenses they do.

[mu_hilltopper]

Let's not rush to judgment. We need to wait for the full story to emerge. I'm not convinced we've heard or seen it all. People who think they know, including Wisconsin's governor, are way ahead of the investigation and I fear they are trying to influence the outcome before the facts are known.

What?  Are you Canadian or something?  That's not how we do it in the US of A.   

We have narratives to push! 

[MU82]

Some nice fantasy you’ve concocted in your mind 82. None of which is true (other than Trump May get re-elected.)

You do realize being called racist by an ignorant, small-minded man like you doesn’t carry any weight? It’s par for the course for the intellectually inferior and hypocritical point of view that permeates the “thinking” of radical, left-wing extremist liberals like you.

Your kind are just as reprehensible as the extremist white supremacists on the extreme right.  Neither faction wants to have an honest discussion about race issues in America.

And btw. Of course black lives matter. Just as traditional, western family values do too (in Western culture).

I've said my piece. So in the name of peace, I'll give you the last word here.

Black Lives Matter. We Are Marquette!

[wadesworld]

It's this type of false equivalency that is why nobody can take you seriously. One side is about actively hating minority groups and ensuring they know they are inferior. Another is just as closed minded but is trying to achieve equality. Saying they are the same is why people view you through the lenses they do.

That and the fact that anybody who does not vote for Donald Trump is now a "radical far left liberal extremist" to MAGAs.  It's hilarious.

[Hards Alumni]

Has nothing to do with narratives when multiple police officers have a chance to stop a suspect without deadly force instead CHOOSE to use deadly force.

I don't give a single crap if Jacob Blake had a gun in his car, it is completely irrelevant.  Three to one, physically restrain him.  Don't wait for him to walk around to his driver seat, and then shoot him.  That's wrong.  I don't need an investigation.  The video speaks for itself.

Charge the officer that pulled the trigger with attempted murder.  Do it today.

[injuryBug]

Has nothing to do with narratives when multiple police officers have a chance to stop a suspect without deadly force instead CHOOSE to use deadly force.

I don't give a single crap if Jacob Blake had a gun in his car, it is completely irrelevant.  Three to one, physically restrain him.  Don't wait for him to walk around to his driver seat, and then shoot him.  That's wrong.  I don't need an investigation.  The video speaks for itself.

Charge the officer that pulled the trigger with attempted murder.  Do it today.

Agree if you or I were caught on video shooting another man in the back like that charges would have been filed already

[Galway Eagle]

Agree if you or I were caught on video shooting another man in the back like that charges would have been filed already

Not in Florida. You could probably get away claiming some BS stand your ground.

[wadesworld]

Has nothing to do with narratives when multiple police officers have a chance to stop a suspect without deadly force instead CHOOSE to use deadly force.

I don't give a single crap if Jacob Blake had a gun in his car, it is completely irrelevant.  Three to one, physically restrain him.  Don't wait for him to walk around to his driver seat, and then shoot him.  That's wrong.  I don't need an investigation.  The video speaks for itself.

Charge the officer that pulled the trigger with attempted murder.  Do it today.

Bingo.

[vogue65]

Has nothing to do with narratives when multiple police officers have a chance to stop a suspect without deadly force instead CHOOSE to use deadly force.

I don't give a single crap if Jacob Blake had a gun in his car, it is completely irrelevant.  Three to one, physically restrain him.  Don't wait for him to walk around to his driver seat, and then shoot him.  That's wrong.  I don't need an investigation.  The video speaks for itself.

Charge the officer that pulled the trigger with attempted murder.  Do it today.

Too many right wing fascists in this country for us to do the right thing.   In their mind they are right.  They think everything is debatable, they are simply amoral people.

That is why there is no center. 

Our entire system is pathetic. 

1.  Change the subject
2.   Introduce a red herring
3.   Challenge the question
4.   Argue semantics
5.   Rant
6.   Lie
7.   Exaggerate
8.  Gas light
9.  Win, win, win

[Pakuni]

Let's not rush to judgment. We need to wait for the full story to emerge. I'm not convinced we've heard or seen it all. People who think they know, including Wisconsin's governor, are way ahead of the investigation and I fear they are trying to influence the outcome before the facts are known.

Patience is a virtue, especially if the goal is to get it right. I understand the anger and the bad feelings but do you want justice or retribution? Those are two very different things!

Look, if the police officers violated the civil rights of a Kenosha resident, by all means, throw the book at them. But let's make sure they acted outside the law and outside their training. If they didn't, then the broader question is whether the rules they followed were appropriate and if not, how do we change them. But don't deprive them of their legal protections. Don't deprive them of their union, to which they have a right, and above all, make sure the results of the investigation are agents of positive change.

If we strip away their union rights and reduce administrative protections against officers who parts of society believe have done them wrong, then a community will have an entirely different type of policing and an entirely different level of protection. What we really have to do is define what we want our police departments to do and then hire people who best fit the mission and develop training to imprint that mission on every officer.

With all due respect, you've built a big old straw man here. I don't see anyone in this discussion - or in the general public - suggesting anything to the contrary of what you've written. There's no popular demand to strip the cop of his legal rights. Or his union rights. Nobody is demanding extrajudicial punishment. Nobody is trying to drag him out to a tree for a good old fashioned lynching or, you know, shooting him repeatedly in the back.

That said, your comments about how you're not convinced there isn't more to the story is illustrative of the problem we have as a society when it comes to bad policing.
You - like a lot of people, especially non-minorities - just have a hard time grasping the realities of how law enforcement all too often treats people of color differently than people who look like you and me. I get it. The cops in our world are the "good guys" and the vast majority, if not all, of our interactions with them are positive. Our worldviews are shaped primarily by our experiences.
So that being the case, your baseline assumption is that the person on the receiving end of police brutality must have done something to deserve it and that assumption remains, even when there's video showing otherwise. Don't believe your lying eyes, right?
Unfortunately, that's not reality, and it's hard to imagine how some people still refuse to accept that, despite mounds of evidence to the contrary.

It's also kind of telling that you've written a couple hundred words here expressing concern for the officer's treatment, but all you can say for Jacob Blake is that his civil rights may have been violated. Man was shot 6-7 times in the back and you see it as a civil rights violation? Justice for Jacob Blake is secondary to "positive change" (whatever the heck that's supposed to mean)?

[buckchuckler]

1.  Change the subject
2.   Introduce a red herring
3.   Chalenge the question
4.   Argue semantics
5.   Rant
6.   Lie
7.   Exaggerate
8.  Gas light
9.  Win, win, win

I feel like this is the best definition of "politics" I've ever seen.

[vogue65]

I feel like this is the best definition of "politics" I've ever seen.

Not politics, dishonest politics.
Where are the honest brokers?

[buckchuckler]

Not politics, dishonest politics.
Where are the honest brokers?

Haven't been around in my lifetime.

[vogue65]

With all due respect, you've built a big old straw man here. I don't see anyone in this discussion - or in the general public - suggesting anything to the contrary of what you've written. There's no popular demand to strip the cop of his legal rights. Or his union rights. Nobody is demanding extrajudicial punishment. Nobody is trying to drag him out to a tree for a good old fashioned lynching or, you know, shooting him repeatedly in the back.

That said, your comments about how you're not convinced there isn't more to the story is illustrative of the problem we have as a society when it comes to bad policing.
You - like a lot of people, especially non-minorities - just have a hard time grasping the realities of how law enforcement all too often treats people of color differently than people who look like you and me. I get it. The cops in our world are the "good guys" and the vast majority, if not all, of our interactions with them are positive. Our worldviews are shaped primarily by our experiences.
So that being the case, your baseline assumption is that the person on the receiving end of police brutality must have done something to deserve it and that assumption remains, even when there's video showing otherwise. Don't believe your lying eyes, right?
Unfortunately, that's not reality, and it's hard to imagine how some people still refuse to accept that, despite mounds of evidence to the contrary.

It's also kind of telling that you've written a couple hundred words here expressing concern for the officer's treatment, but all you can say for Jacob Blake is that his civil rights may have been violated. Man was shot 6-7 times in the back and you see it as a civil rights violation? Justice for Jacob Blake is secondary to "positive change" (whatever the heck that's supposed to mean)?

Don't waste your breath with people like him, and accept that there are millions of them.
Try alternative 2.

[vogue65]

Haven't been around in my lifetime.

Unfortunatly, not surprising.
We don't have any gray beards anymore.
The electorate wants the new shining thing.

[mu_hilltopper]

I don't give a single crap if Jacob Blake had a gun in his car, it is completely irrelevant. 

This is where you lose a lot of people.   

The police were trying what they were trying and it didn't work.  They are now in a new situation.

[vogue65]

This is where you lose a lot of people.   

The police were trying what they were trying and it didn't work.  They are now in a new situation.

Respect is a two way street.
Let the police show some respect and we may find the country showing respect for police.
However, the new generation seems to not respect anything.

Trying what?
Overwhelming force, drawn guns, intimidation?

You will never convence me that cops are not the high school bully with a badge and a gun.
Zero tolerance for these skin heads in uniform.

When they come for you, good luck.

[Jockey]

You do realize being called racist by an ignorant, small-minded man like you doesn’t carry any weight? It’s par for the course for the intellectually inferior and hypocritical point of view that permeates the “thinking” of radical, left-wing extremist liberals like you.

There are many of us “ignorant, small-minded men” here that feel the same way.

[Hards Alumni]

This is where you lose a lot of people.   

The police were trying what they were trying and it didn't work.  They are now in a new situation.

No, not really.  There were three officers.  If the three of them can't subdue a suspect easily, maybe they're not cut out to be officers.  If they're worried, tackle him, zip tie him, and have a conversation.  Instead, weapons were drawn, each side felt threatened, and things escalated.  Again.

[vogue65]

There are many of us “ignorant, small-minded men” here that feel the same way.

Yes, millions.
And using big words does not intimidate us.

[vogue65]

No, not really.  There were three officers.  If the three of them can't subdue a suspect easily, maybe they're not cut out to be officers.  If they're worried, tackle him, zip tie him, and have a conversation.  Instead, weapons were drawn, each side felt threatened, and things escalated.  Again.

Your best word was, again.

[MU82]

No, not really.  There were three officers.  If the three of them can't subdue a suspect easily, maybe they're not cut out to be officers.  If they're worried, tackle him, zip tie him, and have a conversation.  Instead, weapons were drawn, each side felt threatened, and things escalated.  Again.

Yep.

Oh, and don't kneel on his neck with a sh!t-eating grin on your face while he gasps for air and dies under your knee 9 minutes later. That too.