NFL Thread 2019-2020

[Uncle Rico]

Say what you will about Carolina fans, but they definitely missed Cam

[hairy worthen]

Seattle taking that delay was brutal.

I thought it was bad at the time, but probably not that big of a deal. They had no time outs at that point and maybe 22 seconds on the clock as I recall. They probably weren't running the ball there even though they wanted to bring in Lynch. Probably were going to use him as a decoy.  If they don't get in with a run they maybe spike it and have one more play. A pass from 6 yards out might be easier than a pass from 1 yard out anyway. The end of that game was mismanaged in other ways by Carroll.

[hairy worthen]

Assuming the Saints beat the Vikings, winner of Seattle/Philly gets screwed by the NFL with the playoff scheduling. That game is the late Sunday game in the Wild Card round. San Fran hosts the early Saturday game on Divisional weekend. Either team will have one less prep day and a full travel day no matter the outcome.

Is that determined ahead of time by  NFL or do the networks determine that?

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I thought it was bad at the time, but probably not that big of a deal. They had no time outs at that point and maybe 22 seconds on the clock as I recall. They probably weren't running the ball there even though they wanted to bring in Lynch. Probably were going to use him as a decoy.  If they don't get in with a run they maybe spike it and have one more play. A pass from 6 yards out might be easier than a pass from 1 yard out anyway. The end of that game was mismanaged in other ways by Carroll.

You don't think being inside the 1 versus being just outside the five is that big of a deal?  It's a huge deal.  It takes the run completely off the table.

[MU82]

Assuming the Saints beat the Vikings, winner of Seattle/Philly gets screwed by the NFL with the playoff scheduling. That game is the late Sunday game in the Wild Card round. San Fran hosts the early Saturday game on Divisional weekend. Either team will have one less prep day and a full travel day no matter the outcome.

The Seahawks and Eagles screwed themselves by not having better seasons.

Don't like having to play a wild-card game and then having to travel to play a divisional-round game 6 days later? Win more games!

The Seahawks, in particular, could have avoided their fate by not looking incompetent at the end of last night's game. Don't take that penalty and do score that TD ... and they get 2 weeks rest.

The Eagles get a home playoff game after stumbling and bumbling most of the season. They should be thanking their lucky stars that the NFL playoff system still rewards division champions, regardless of how much those division champions were outclassed by the best non-division-winners all season long.

All IMHO, of course.

[hairy worthen]

You don't think being inside the 1 versus being just outside the five is that big of a deal?  It's a huge deal.  It takes the run completely off the table.

Did you not read my post? I am not sure the run was on the table. If they run and don't get in that may be the ball game. There was around 20 seconds left and they had no timeouts. Maybe they spike it and get one more play if they run and don't get in. If they throw they have 4 chances to get it in. That's a ballsy play to run it against that defensive front in that situation. Lynch wasn't exactly gashing holes through the line prior to that. I take my chances with Russell Wilson throwing it 4 times.

[MU82]

Did you not read my post? I am not sure the run was on the table. If they run and don't get in that may be the ball game. There was around 20 seconds left and they had no timeouts. Maybe they spike it and get one more play if they run and don't get in. If they throw they have 4 chances to get it in. That's a ballsy play to run it against that defensive front in that situation. Lynch wasn't exactly gashing holes through the line prior to that. I take my chances with Russell Wilson throwing it 4 times.

I agree that they probably wouldn't have run, but Pete Carroll is an unconventional guy, and he might have. Being inside the 1 gives them options, gives Carroll and his play-caller different things to consider.

At the 5 1/2 yard line, the defense knew Wilson was going to pass every time.

On the half-yard line, Wilson could fake a handoff to Lynch, bootleg, have a run-pass option, that kind of thing. Definitely opens up the playbook more.

But sure, nothing would have been guaranteed, even if the Seahawks hadn't screwed the pooch by taking that penalty.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Did you not read my post? I am not sure the run was on the table. If they run and don't get in that may be the ball game. There was around 20 seconds left and they had no timeouts. Maybe they spike it and get one more play if they run and don't get in. If they throw they have 4 chances to get it in. That's a ballsy play to run it against that defensive front in that situation. Lynch wasn't exactly gashing holes through the line prior to that. I take my chances with Russell Wilson throwing it 4 times.

I read your post.  The first play isn't the only time you can run.  What if you throw a couple incomplete passes and you are down to one play left with just a couple seconds to go.  Run is definitely on the table then.  Furthermore, defendng a short route of a yard or two into the end zone is much harder than defending with five yards in between.

[hairy worthen]

I read your post.  The first play isn't the only time you can run.  What if you throw a couple incomplete passes and you are down to one play left with just a couple seconds to go.  Run is definitely on the table then.  Furthermore, defendng a short route of a yard or two into the end zone is much harder than defending with five yards in between.

It does take options off the table like MU82 said I agree with that, but you only have one chance to run in that situation, there was around 20 seconds left. Maybe you spike the ball and can run one more play. You give yourself more options/plays if you throw the ball. Maybe they run with a couple of seconds on the last play like you said. I am not sure defending a one yard route is harder than defending a 6 yard route. Its not as cut and dry as you make it out to be. It would have been interesting to find out.

[rocket surgeon]

Disagree brother Rocket...took 4 steps, call on field was catch, if it was in end zone would be a TD,  nothing in video irrefutable to overturn. 

Separately, Pete Carroll’s wizardry at the end not very good...but he is a swell guy.   

Correct me if I’m wrong here, but to have control long enough for a touchdown may be different than exhibiting control in the field of play, i.e. a football move in order for a fumble to happen. I know that sounds hypocritical, but when I did see the first replay slowed down slightly, it definitely looked like a fumble.  One of the announcers did stress the seeing the play in real time though and got me hooked in

[Pakuni]

Pat Shurmur fired.
Giants might be the best job available. Have a potential franchise QB in place, an elite RB and a top 5 draft pick. And they play in what's currently the league's weakest division. On the downside ... Dave Gettleman.

[MU82]

Rivera to Redskins confirmed.

Good hire by them. The Redskins are a nightmare, but they're in no worse shape than the Panthers were when he took over after the 2010 season. Much could depend on whether Haskins ends up being anywhere near as good as Newton turned out to be. Also, even though Richardson was a shytty owner, not many are as bad as Snyder.

I wish Rivera well. Truly a good guy, and a pretty darn good coach.

Pat Shurmur fired.
Giants might be the best job available. Have a potential franchise QB in place, an elite RB and a top 5 draft pick. And they play in what's currently the league's weakest division. On the downside ... Dave Gettleman.

I'm not a big Gettleman fan, either, although he did have plenty of hits along with his misses in Charlotte. His last Panthers draft saw him take McCaffrey at No. 8 overall, and there were plenty of critics of that choice, including some folks here on Scoop. Other very good draft picks included James Bradbury and Kuwann Short in the second round, and Trai Turner in the third round. But he stupidly/stubbornly let Josh Norman walk after the 2015 season, idiotically threw away Steve Smith, and made many other similarly poor decisions, often seemingly with an ax to grind.

But you're right -- the Giants job doesn't seem bad at all despite Gettleman.

[Pakuni]

Rivera to Redskins confirmed.

Good hire by them. The Redskins are a nightmare, but they're in no worse shape than the Panthers were when he took over after the 2010 season. Much could depend on whether Haskins ends up being anywhere near as good as Newton turned out to be. Also, even though Richardson was a shytty owner, not many are as bad as Snyder.

I wish Rivera well. Truly a good guy, and a pretty darn good coach.

I hope, for his sake, Rivera took the job only on condition he receives control over football operations. Otherwise, he's in for a rough time.

[Cheeks]

Pat Shurmur fired.
Giants might be the best job available. Have a potential franchise QB in place, an elite RB and a top 5 draft pick. And they play in what's currently the league's weakest division. On the downside ... Dave Gettleman.

Bellichick to the Giants

[Cheeks]

Correct me if I’m wrong here, but to have control long enough for a touchdown may be different than exhibiting control in the field of play, i.e. a football move in order for a fumble to happen. I know that sounds hypocritical, but when I did see the first replay slowed down slightly, it definitely looked like a fumble.  One of the announcers did stress the seeing the play in real time though and got me hooked in

He summarizes quite well this morning

https://twitter.com/SNFRules/status/1211661434695770112

He also disagreed with the punter roughing call, as did I

https://twitter.com/SNFRules/status/1211131696281616384

[MU82]

Greg Olsen, acquired back in 2011 in arguably the best trade in Panthers history, sounded like a man ready to retire after yesterday's game.

https://www.panthers.com/news/that-felt-a-lot-like-goodbye-from-greg-olsen

He had a heck of a career, probably one of the top 10 tight ends in NFL history. And he was an extremely visible guy in the Charlotte community; helped raise millions and millions of dollars for charities, and personally donated millions.

Did very well in several brief announcing stints. Wouldn't be surprised if he ends up on MNF or another prime gig.

[#UnleashSean]

I thought it was bad at the time, but probably not that big of a deal. They had no time outs at that point and maybe 22 seconds on the clock as I recall. They probably weren't running the ball there even though they wanted to bring in Lynch. Probably were going to use him as a decoy.  If they don't get in with a run they maybe spike it and have one more play. A pass from 6 yards out might be easier than a pass from 1 yard out anyway. The end of that game was mismanaged in other ways by Carroll.

The wise words of wisdom brought to you by man who thinks not having maholmes is "no big deal"

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

It does take options off the table like MU82 said I agree with that, but you only have one chance to run in that situation, there was around 20 seconds left. Maybe you spike the ball and can run one more play. You give yourself more options/plays if you throw the ball. Maybe they run with a couple of seconds on the last play like you said. I am not sure defending a one yard route is harder than defending a 6 yard route. Its not as cut and dry as you make it out to be. It would have been interesting to find out.

If you gave coaches the option, they would take first and goal at the 1 over the 6 any day of the week.  Not even close.

[hairy worthen]

The wise words of wisdom brought to you by man who thinks not having maholmes is "no big deal"

Dude, what the hell is wrong with you. Calling someone dumb is not a credible take. Show me where I said it "was no big deal" like you quoted. Beating KC at home is not easy with or without Mahomes ask the Vikings. Of course it is easier to beat them without Mahomes, but still a quality win on the road.

[hairy worthen]

If you gave coaches the option, they would take first and goal at the 1 over the 6 any day of the week.  Not even close.

Ok football genius. There was 20 seconds left with no time outs that's the caveat. Better at the 1 than the 6 ok I will concede that, but not as big of a deal in that particular situation.

[JWags85]

Greg Olsen, acquired back in 2011 in arguably the best trade in Panthers history, sounded like a man ready to retire after yesterday's game.

https://www.panthers.com/news/that-felt-a-lot-like-goodbye-from-greg-olsen

He had a heck of a career, probably one of the top 10 tight ends in NFL history. And he was an extremely visible guy in the Charlotte community; helped raise millions and millions of dollars for charities, and personally donated millions.

Did very well in several brief announcing stints. Wouldn't be surprised if he ends up on MNF or another prime gig.

He was great in his announcing debut this year.  Should be a natural transition if he wants it.  And his charity work can't be understated.  He was exceptional even before leaving Chicago, and even more so after

Sure fire HOF TE for me.  Shame he was wasted his early years in Chicago.  Light on accolades because his best years went up against Gronk and Kelce (who will probably be top 3 TEs when they are done), but he was a consistent and dominant for a 5 year stretch before getting banged up.  Gronk, Kelce, Gonzalez, Sharp, and Gates are the top 5 of all time for me.  But then I think Olsen is right there in a group with Witten, Kellen Winslow, and Ozzie Newsome.  Ertz is on his way too if he keeps this level of play up.

[Pakuni]

If you gave coaches the option, they would take first and goal at the 1 over the 6 any day of the week.  Not even close.

I mean, you're both right.
First-and-goal from the 1 undoubtedly is preferential to first-and-goal from the 6.
At the same time, under those particular circumstances, the negative impact it had on the Seahawks' options was less than it would have been under different circumstances. Given the time and lack of timeouts, Seattle was likely to pass either way, and five more yards of field to work with isn't necessarily a bad thing in that situation.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I mean, you're both right.
First-and-goal from the 1 undoubtedly is preferential to first-and-goal from the 6.
At the same time, under those particular circumstances, the negative impact it had on the Seahawks' options was less than it would have been under different circumstances. Given the time and lack of timeouts, Seattle was likely to pass either way, and five more yards of field to work with isn't necessarily a bad thing in that situation.

No.  We are not "both right."  His original statement is that it was "probably not that big of a deal."

It is a big deal.  According to stat guys, that penalty decreased their Game Winning Chance stat by 13 percentage points.  That's significant.

[hairy worthen]

I mean, you're both right.
First-and-goal from the 1 undoubtedly is preferential to first-and-goal from the 6.
At the same time, under those particular circumstances, the negative impact it had on the Seahawks' options was less than it would have been under different circumstances. Given the time and lack of timeouts, Seattle was likely to pass either way, and five more yards of field to work with isn't necessarily a bad thing in that situation.

That's exactly my point. It actually isn't worth all the effort discussing it.

[hairy worthen]

No.  We are not "both right."  His original statement is that it was "probably not that big of a deal."

It is a big deal.  According to stat guys, that penalty decreased their Game Winning Chance stat by 13 percentage points.  That's significant.

If I tell you, you are right will you just go away.