Slow starts

[Afroman]

It was only a matter of time before a slow start bit Marquette in the butt.

On Tuesday, MU trailed 17-8 eight minutes into the contest and the deficit reached double digits (21-10) a short time later.

It has been a common theme:

Xavier (Jan. 26) -- Trailed 28-21 with 9:11 left
DePaul (Jan. 23) -- Trailed 16-12 with 11:41 left
Providence (Jan. 20) -- Trailed 23-14 with 8:22 left
Seton Hall (Jan. 12) -- Trailed 10-4 with 16:28 left
Creighton (Jan. 9) -- Trailed 14-5 with 14:51 left
St. John's (Jan. 1) -- Trailed 13-5 with 16:14 left

MU has shown unbelievable comeback ability this season, but I fear this could come back to haunt them in the BE or NCAA tourney.

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

It was only a matter of time before a slow start bit Marquette in the butt.

On Tuesday, MU trailed 17-8 eight minutes into the contest and the deficit reached double digits (21-10) a short time later.

It has been a common theme:

Xavier (Jan. 26) -- Trailed 28-21 with 9:11 left
DePaul (Jan. 23) -- Trailed 16-12 with 11:41 left
Providence (Jan. 20) -- Trailed 23-14 with 8:22 left
Seton Hall (Jan. 12) -- Trailed 10-4 with 16:28 left
Creighton (Jan. 9) -- Trailed 14-5 with 14:51 left
St. John's (Jan. 1) -- Trailed 13-5 with 16:14 left

MU has shown unbelievable comeback ability this season, but I fear this could come back to haunt them in the BE or NCAA tourney.

Common theme is usually 2-3 mind numbing live ball turnovers by Markus during these early stretches

[brewcity77]

This is definitely a hallmark of the luck aspect I was mentioning a couple weeks ago.

[esotericmindguy]

Common theme is usually 2-3 mind numbing live ball turnovers by Markus during these early stretches

Good Call. It’s the BE POY’s fault.

[tower912]

So, 6 out of 7 times, it was an inconvenience.  1 time out of 7 it was a problem.

[goldeneagle91114]

This is definitely a hallmark of the luck aspect I was mentioning a couple weeks ago.

This year’s team reminds me a lot of the highly ranked (maybe over ranked) Iowa State team in the 2014/2015 season. They were extremely lucky and always seemed to be able to come back, no matter the deficit. The highlight of their season was 3 come from behind wins in the  big 12 tourney to win it all.

The following week, the team fell behind in the first game of the NCAA tourney, but fell short on the comeback and were bounced first round.

I hope this team looks at this game as an example. You cant count on a comeback to win every game. We need to start taking care of business from the opening whistle.

[IrwinFletcher]

I think we can look at the beginning of the 2H as well.  We had two double digit leads at the half, once against Seton Hall and one against DePaul.  Both times, the opponent came back to make it a ball game.

I would like to see Joe C start and sit Joey.  Take the ball out of Markus’ hands early and sub in Joey around the 16-17 minute mark and go from there.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I think we can look at the beginning of the 2H as well.  We had two double digit leads at the half, once against Seton Hall and one against DePaul.  Both times, the opponent came back to make it a ball game.

I would like to see Joe C start and sit Joey.  Take the ball out of Markus’ hands early and sub in Joey around the 16-17 minute mark and go from there.

I don't hate this idea. The reason for our slow starts usually has to do with turnovers. This feels like the 4th or 5th game this season where we racked up 6+ turnvoers before the under 12 timeout, only to calm down and have less turnovers the rest of the game. Maybe a steadier hand could ease our early turnover troubles....of course, this assumes that Joe is a steady hand. His turnover numbers are not good...but he's Jekyll & Hyde. He seems to either have awful turnover games or good ones. If we can get good Joe for the first few minutes I would be open to trying it. That being said, I don't know that you mess with the lineup that got you to 17-1.

[tower912]

19-4.    However, I am glad someone is actually making a creative suggestion about a line up change.    And while I understand the Hauser chemistry, I think that Bailey needs to get some more of Joey's minutes.    IMO, Joey has hit his freshman wall.    Start Bailey, give an extra 5-8 minutes of Joeys regular time.  Build up Bailey, give Joey a chance to gather himself for the big push down the stretch.   I don't like starting Chartouny at this point because I like having a guard to bring off the bench.   

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

19-4.    However, I am glad someone is actually making a creative suggestion about a line up change.    And while I understand the Hauser chemistry, I think that Bailey needs to get some more of Joey's minutes.    IMO, Joey has hit his freshman wall.    Start Bailey, give an extra 5-8 minutes of Joeys regular time.  Build up Bailey, give Joey a chance to gather himself for the big push down the stretch.   I don't like starting Chartouny at this point because I like having a guard to bring off the bench.

It's two bad games. Three games ago Joey poured in 21 on 5/6 3P shooting. I wouldn't be so quick to declare him hitting his freshman wall. Joey doesn't do well when he's forced to guard guards on the perimeter. I think he will have more success on Saturday when he's guarding stretch fours like Paschall and Bey.

[tower912]

It's two bad games. Three games ago Joey poured in 21 on 5/6 3P shooting. I wouldn't be so quick to declare him hitting his freshman wall. Joey doesn't do well when he's forced to guard guards on the perimeter. I think he will have more success on Saturday when he's guarding stretch fours like Paschall and Bey.

It is two bad games 20 games into a freshman year where he is averaging 29.8 minutes a game, third most on the team.   There is no shame in it.    Start Bailey, drop Joey to 25 mpg per game for a bit.   Hell, let him sub in for Theo a little so he doesn't have to chase around the perimeter as much.   But I do see your point about Saturday. 

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

One loss and people start wanting to tweak the lineup.  I think we are who we are at this point.

Starting 5 is pretty clear.  Chartouny and Morrow first off the bench.   Bailey as 8th man, Matt 3rd center as needed.  Jamal dnp or plays sparingly.

Joey's gotta fight through the freshman wall.  Markus and Sam gotta make shots.  Role players play their roles.  Simple, right?

[Norm]

Outside of the Georgetown game, what has Bailey done to earn a starting nod? He has the worst FG% on the team in Big East play, shooting 9 for 23 for a .391 percentage, and 2 for 12 from 3, for a .167 percentage. He also only averages 1.0 rebound a game in Big East play, with just 10 rebounds in 107 minutes. He does only have 1 turnover, so that is great. I can see continuing to give him 5-10 min a game, but I don't think he's done anything to deserve to be starting over Joey.

[tower912]

I agree.   However, I think Joey is gassed.   

[TSmith34, Inc.]

It's two bad games. Three games ago Joey poured in 21 on 5/6 3P shooting. I wouldn't be so quick to declare him hitting his freshman wall. Joey doesn't do well when he's forced to guard guards on the perimeter. I think he will have more success on Saturday when he's guarding stretch fours like Paschall and Bey.

^This.  Bailey is coming along nicely, but he in no way compares to Joey.  I also don't believe (advanced stat heads please correct me) that there is such a thing as a freshman wall.

That said, Bailey reminds me a little bit of freshman Vander -- pretty solid defensively, kind of a mess offensively, but you can see the athleticism and potential and in the meantime he is earning minutes on the defensive end of the floor.

[Goose]

Not start Joey H? Come on. They are playing for a high seed and you play the best players as many minutes as possible. We have three guys that standout game in and game out, after that there is a drop off. There is not enough talent to play games with playing time. At this point, it really comes down to how many minutes Ed and JC get.

[skianth16]

One loss and people start wanting to tweak the lineup.  I think we are who we are at this point.

Starting 5 is pretty clear.  Chartouny and Morrow first off the bench.   Bailey as 8th man, Matt 3rd center as needed.  Jamal dnp or plays sparingly.

Joey's gotta fight through the freshman wall.  Markus and Sam gotta make shots.  Role players play their roles.  Simple, right?

Wojo himself has tweaked the lineup quite a bit throughout the season. We've had a lot of looks at how guys work together, so of course that sparks some creativity from the fanbase. I have a feeling we might still seem some roles change a bit in the next 5-6 weeks. Joe seems to finally be gelling, 30 mpg might be finally taking a toll on (recently surgically repaired) Joey, and Brendan has now carved out a nice role as a defense-first guy. Even 2-3 weeks ago this wasn't all quite so clear.

[Norm]

Wojo himself has tweaked the lineup quite a bit throughout the season. We've had a lot of looks at how guys work together, so of course that sparks some creativity from the fanbase. I have a feeling we might still seem some roles change a bit in the next 5-6 weeks. Joe seems to finally be gelling, 30 mpg might be finally taking a toll on (recently surgically repaired) Joey, and Brendan has now carved out a nice role as a defense-first guy. Even 2-3 weeks ago this wasn't all quite so clear.

In Big East play we have had the same starting lineup each game.

[tower912]

I think Joey is the better player right now.    I think he is tired after playing 685 minutes through 23 games after not playing his senior year in high school and coming off surgery.      Morrow started early in the year over Theo, Bailey started early in the year over Joey.   Theo and Joey came on and earned their starting spots.   
I agree that one loss does not mean it is time to make massive changes.     I am of the opinion that Joey has hit his wall and needs to have his minutes managed for a bit until he gets through it.     Starting Bailey is one way to do it.   

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

In Big East play we have had the same starting lineup each game.

Not only that, but 17 games in a row going back to November 27.

I think Joey gets over his wall either Saturday or next week against DePaul.

The Dodds freshman wall lasts about 2 weeks, and occurs twice during the season. 

I'll be surprised if Wojo changes the starting lineup.  If he does and it works, great.

[Marcus92]

What is the freshman wall?

I've heard of players hitting a wall going from college (where you play maybe 35-40 games a year) to the NBA (with a schedule of 82 games, not including playoffs). That's something completely different.

Now, it's true that Joey is coming off a senior season where he didn't play due to injury. Maybe he still needs to improve his conditioning. But I don't think that has anything to do with a "freshman wall."

Agree with the overall point about slow starts. I get that MU has a target on its back this season. We're still way better than teams like St. John's. Feels like we need to come out with more of a killer instinct.

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

One loss and people start wanting to tweak the lineup.  I think we are who we are at this point.

Starting 5 is pretty clear.  Chartouny and Morrow first off the bench.   Bailey as 8th man, Matt 3rd center as needed.  Jamal dnp or plays sparingly.

Joey's gotta fight through the freshman wall.  Markus and Sam gotta make shots.  Role players play their roles.  Simple, right?

Its not one loss its about 6-7 games in row that we have started horribly.  Im not necessarily saying we need to change the line up or playing time but this team needs to find a way to wake the hell up before the 10 minute mark of the first half.  We played at half the intensity level of SJU for quite a long time in the first half.  Matched it in the second half and won the half by 9. Unfortunately or sleep walking had us down by 10 at half.  And im not just talking about missing shots, we played 2016-2017 defense, threw the ball away, and generally lacked intenisty on both ends of the floor for 6-7 games now to start.  Need to find a way to start with more intensity and toughness on both ends.

[hairy worthen]

I think Joey is the better player right now.    I think he is tired after playing 685 minutes through 23 games after not playing his senior year in high school and coming off surgery.      Morrow started early in the year over Theo, Bailey started early in the year over Joey.   Theo and Joey came on and earned their starting spots.   
I agree that one loss does not mean it is time to make massive changes.     I am of the opinion that Joey has hit his wall and needs to have his minutes managed for a bit until he gets through it.     Starting Bailey is one way to do it.

Freshman wall is silly. Maybe psychological but certainly not physical. These are highly conditioned young athletes. They play  basketball all year, hours  per day. The only thing wrong with Joey is he is a freshmen and therefore inconsistent.

[Class71]

Good Call. It’s the BE POY’s fault.

Marcus is one of the best shooters MU has ever had, however, he can improve on some aspects of his game. We can say that about everyone on the team that there areas that can be improved.. I am sure MH knows he needs to improve his ball handling and passing and sometimes judgement. And it is also true we hold him to a higher standard because he and Sam are the leaders. Marcus is not the cause of this loss but he like the rest of the team can be part of the solution. There are aspects of each players game on this team that can improve. I expect Wojo knows what needs to be done and will continue to address these areas. This team is a work in progress that has improved significantly but there   is more upside for everyone, even Marcus.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Marcus is one of the best shooters MU has ever had, however, he can improve on some aspects of his game. We can say that about everyone on the team that there areas that can be improved.. I am sure MH knows he needs to improve his ball handling and passing and sometimes judgement. And it is also true we hold him to a higher standard because he and Sam are the leaders. Marcus is not the cause of this loss but he like the rest of the team can be part of the solution. There are aspects of each players game on this team that can improve. I expect Wojo knows what needs to be done and will continue to address these areas. This team is a work in progress that has improved significantly but there   is more upside for everyone, even Marcus.

Markus.

[D'Lo Brown]

It was only a matter of time before a slow start bit Marquette in the butt.

On Tuesday, MU trailed 17-8 eight minutes into the contest and the deficit reached double digits (21-10) a short time later.

It has been a common theme:

Xavier (Jan. 26) -- Trailed 28-21 with 9:11 left
DePaul (Jan. 23) -- Trailed 16-12 with 11:41 left
Providence (Jan. 20) -- Trailed 23-14 with 8:22 left
Seton Hall (Jan. 12) -- Trailed 10-4 with 16:28 left
Creighton (Jan. 9) -- Trailed 14-5 with 14:51 left
St. John's (Jan. 1) -- Trailed 13-5 with 16:14 left

MU has shown unbelievable comeback ability this season, but I fear this could come back to haunt them in the BE or NCAA tourney.

I don't think it's necessarily the worst thing at this point. I like seeing these guys suddenly starting to perform well in games that enter crunch time. Maybe it's just superstition, but, I don't think that coasting through games would be as good of practice for the tournament.

Of course it would have been nicer to win, don't disagree with you on that. But it wasn't the worst way to lose.

[tower912]

I agree.   However, I think Joey is gassed.   

Bump

[NickelDimer]

Bump

Yeah you were out front on this. Today he didn’t even looked gassed as much as not mentally with it. Maybe it’s cause and effect. BB has earned some of his minutes until he works through it

[tower912]

Joey has been amazing.   But it is normal for a freshman averaging 29 minutes a game to hit a lull.    IMO, that is all this is.   The week off after DePaul should help him reset.   

[Newsdreams]

Just think that teams take him seriously now and make great effort to stop both Hausers

[MUMountin]

Just think that teams take him seriously now and make great effort to stop both Hausers

Agreed.  Regardless of whether the freshman wall is legit or not, I think that at this point of the season opponents now have a book on Joey and can game plan for him better, so he isn't getting the same sort of looks as he was previously.