Crean vs Buzz vs Wojo vs Shaka

[MUDPT]

This is, of course, the point. Giving a coach “credit” for leaving behind 2 guys who
2 years later would form, on paper, the worst starting backcourt in Marquette history is absurd.
Mo Acker was a mid major recruit who got the opportunity to be a back up at MU because he was Jerel’s high school teammate at Hillcrest. His third year here (as a junior who had sat out a transfer year) he averaged 2.8 ppg, 1.4 rpg and 1.8 apg. IIRC, he was dismissed from the team after the season - and nobody cared. When it became clear by the end of summer that we had nobody to man the point Buzz invited him back.
Cubillan had been at MU for 3 years also. He had started one (1) game and as a junior averaged 1.6 ppg, .5 rpg and .7 apg.
I’m still amazed with what Buzz did with that team. So was all of college basketball. I’ve never heard TC get credit for that backcourt before. Only blame. As it should be.

Mo was MAC freshman of the year. There was obviously the Jerel connection, but I think he transferred out of Ball State after Buckley was fired. So there was that connection too.

Anyone else remember when Cubillan came in his freshman year, TC was playing him a ton at PG at the beginning of the season with Dom off guard?

[4everwarriors]

Crean sucks

[brewcity77]

We’ll agree to disagree. Brew doesn’t just (wrongly) think Crean deserved credit, he thinks the fact that they (as last resorts) started proves he deserves credit. To me that’s pretzel logic.

Also, the landscape is much different today than it was 15 years ago. A lot more progress can be made before the start of year 2 today than was possible then.

Crean recruited them. That's the point and that's not in debate. Your argument is nonsensical and wholly without merit. It's embarrassing even for a Scoop Take.

[Uncle Rico]

Crean recruited them. That's the point and that's not in debate. Your argument is nonsensical and wholly without merit. It's embarrassing even for a Scoop Take.

Listen, Lenny can’t let anything complimentary of Tom Crean go without a fight, no matter how wrong he is

[Elonsmusk]

I think Buzz is a better basketball coach, but Crean improved the program more than Buzz did and was a more important coach to the program.

I agree with this analysis.  Which is why I disagree with foolish takes like this:

Crean recruited them. That's the point and that's not in debate. Your argument is nonsensical and wholly without merit. It's embarrassing even for a Scoop Take.

[Elonsmusk]

Listen, Lenny can’t let anything complimentary of Tom Crean go without a fight, no matter how wrong he is

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[BLWarrior91]

Justin, Stevie, Kam, and Oso weren’t bad pieces to inherit.

You are correct but the difference is that Buzz inherited the Amigos who had been starting for three years.  Shaka inherited  a group that collectively started one game for Wojo (Lewis).  Crean left the nucleus of three straight tournament appearances for Buzz.

[brewcity77]

I agree with this analysis.  Which is why I disagree with foolish takes like this:

So Crean didn't recruit Acker and Cubillan? Now we're just living in stupid delusion land?

What I said is not a "take." It's simple established reality. Disagreeing with it is acknowledging you do not live in reality.

[The Equalizer]

This is, of course, the point. Giving a coach “credit” for leaving behind 2 guys who
2 years later would form, on paper, the worst starting backcourt in Marquette history is absurd.
Mo Acker was a mid major recruit who got the opportunity to be a back up at MU because he was Jerel’s high school teammate at Hillcrest. His third year here (as a junior who had sat out a transfer year) he averaged 2.8 ppg, 1.4 rpg and 1.8 apg. IIRC, he was dismissed from the team after the season - and nobody cared. When it became clear by the end of summer that we had nobody to man the point Buzz invited him back.
Cubillan had been at MU for 3 years also. He had started one (1) game and as a junior averaged 1.6 ppg, .5 rpg and .7 apg.
I’m still amazed with what Buzz did with that team. So was all of college basketball. I’ve never heard TC get credit for that backcourt before. Only blame. As it should be.

And yet Buzz, who on the day he got the job at MU had just spent the entire prior season coaching Cubillan and Acker as an assistant to Crean. 

What you're really arguing here is that Buzz's judgement of talent is so atrociously bad that going into the 2010 season after spending TWO FULL SEASONS coaching Acker and Cubillan, he couldn't see what you think is obvious--that they were worst backcourt in the history of Marquette.  Because clearly any coach with a brain would replace the worst players in program history rather than keeping them around as starters just because the prior starters graduated.

Or maybe you're arguing that Buzz felt his own recruiting ability was so suspect that he was better off sticking with the worst backcourt in the history of Marquette rather than even ATTEMPT to recruit someone better over not just one but two recruiting cycles.  BTW, there might be some truth to this given he gave scholarships to Yous Mbao and Brett Roseboro without bothering to offer one to a replacement for Acker and Cubillan. 

Or perhaps let's just state the obvious:  Buzz was in a MUCH better position to evaluate their capabilities than you were, and he disagrees with your view.  He kept those players because he thought they were good enough to build his 2010 team around.

[MU82]

Derrick Wilson and Jake Thomas is Marquette's worst starting backcourt in a long, long time IMHO. And Buzz played them each 30 mpg. Another Buzz production.

I really liked Buzz as a coach for most of his time at Marquette, but he wasn't exactly the PG whisperer (or PG recruiter).

[Lennys Tap]

Crean recruited them. That's the point and that's not in debate. Your argument is nonsensical and wholly without merit. It's embarrassing even for a Scoop Take.

Actually Crean didn’t recruit Acker, he asked in to play with his buddy after Buckley was canned. But whether Crean recruited two substandard guards to MU and passed them on to Buzz was NOT the point. The point was they were substandard, and leaving the next coach substandard players does NOT amount to leaving a full cupboard.

Your childish reaction only makes your argument look dumber. Firefighters everywhere are embarrassed on your behalf.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Actually Crean didn’t recruit Acker, he asked in to play with his buddy after Buckley was canned. But whether Crean recruited two substandard guards to MU and passed them on to Buzz was NOT the point. The point was they were substandard, and leaving the next coach substandard players does NOT amount to leaving a full cupboard.

Your childish reaction only makes your argument look dumber. Firefighters everywhere are embarrassed on your behalf.

Look, no one is calling Cubillan or Acker superstars, but the former was THIRD on the team in minutes that year (ahead of DJO), and the latter fifth (between DJO and Buycks.)

On a team with FOUR future NBA players.

And again, no one said that the cupboard was full in year two, but let's not act like it was "EMPTY." It wasn't.