sorry tom

[Doctor V]

im as big of a crean supporter as there is- hes done a ton for this program

BUT

tc is not a big game coach yet. i dont care what anyone says...veteran team blah blah blah but you foul in that situation with 4/3 secs left past mid court

also- how is fitz not in when we have 1.5 to win in reg

also- how do you not set up a shot in the OT session. not fully his fault, players also

BUT- tc i love what youve done here, but you need to win something big and important w/out dwade

ps- team great game. hayward get it together bud. dj come on pal

pss this team is getting it together at the right time. i wholeheartedly believe that

[Big Papi]

You have to foul?   Please.  I watch a ton of college basketball and I don't seem to recall that a team fouls in that situation 70, 80, 90 percent of the time.  ESPN had a segment on this topic about a year ago and it breaks down 50/50 when asking coaches.  Hardly a mandate of what to do in that situation.  DJ doesn't foul and we probably win and this does not get brought up.

[🏀]

You have to foul?   Please.  I watch a ton of college basketball and I don't seem to recall that a team fouls in that situation 70, 80, 90 percent of the time.  ESPN had a segment on this topic about a year ago and it breaks down 50/50 when asking coaches.  Hardly a mandate of what to do in that situation.  DJ doesn't foul and we probably win and this does not get brought up.

Why foul when our defense was creating turnovers left and right. Give your defense a chance to win the game instead of putting someone on the line. That's the philosophy Crean used, and no turnover was created. If DJ didn't hit him, that ball still probably was not going in.

[mugrack]

MU has been known for its defense and steals all year.  In the words of a coach who many people on this page like to reference..."You gotta dance with the girl you brought to the dance."

[NYWarrior]

DJ fouling Wallace TWICE behind the arc did MU in.........Wallace came away with 5 points on those shots, each of which was taken under duress. Without the fouls he makes at best 50% of those shots and MU wins the game.

.....that DJ already had fouled Wallace on a three-pointer earlier in the half makes it that much harder to believe he'd repeat the offense when it mattered most.  Sadly, he did.

[MUfan12]

Why foul when our defense was creating turnovers left and right. Give your defense a chance to win the game instead of putting someone on the line. That's the philosophy Crean used, and no turnover was created. If DJ didn't hit him, that ball still probably was not going in.

Not only that, but a miss would have been trouble rebounding-wise. I did not feel comfortable with Wes and Lazar trying to rebound with much bigger guys on them, especially with what they were letting Hibbert get away with. What if he makes the first, misses the second, and Hibbert goes over the back, scores and gets fouled? Is fouling now the wrong call? Now you're either tied or losing by 1. (This scenario was not too far-fetched either.)

Fact is no one is talking about it if Cahill swallows the whistle like he should have in that situation. I still can't believe he called it.

[muhoops1]

I could seem him calling it...he took over the last 3 or 4 minutes of the game.  Ironically, it wasn't his call.  The official on the base line had a better view of the play.  I was behind the Georgetown bench and they were screaming (three) that he was in the act of shooting.

I didn't think he was shooting the ball at the point of the call.  It should have been 2.  Whatever though.  Can't do stupid stuff like that at the end of games. 

[Frozen Caveman Coach]

The whining about the call needs to stop.  No coach would ever instruct a player to swipe for the ball in that situation, with seconds on the clock and only a 3 can tie.  Contest him like he did and make him shoot over you.  Don't even put it in the hands of the ref.  I like James and MU's aggressive style of D, but I was troubled that Crean wouldn't comment on the play suggesting that his player did everything right in that situation.  Whether or not he fouled him, under no circumstances should James have given the ref a chance to call a 3pt shooting foul.  There is a time to lay off a tad on the aggressive, go for the steal mentality that Crean stresses and play position D and this certainly was that time.  If Crean doesn't use this as an example of how not to handle that type of situation, he is failing his players.

[MUteamball98]

I think this whole ulitmatum thing with Crean is a bunch of crap.

"BUT- tc i love what youve done here, but you need to win something big and important w/out dwade"

I have heard this time and time again, "crean has not done anything without wade".  

Yes, that is correct, Crean has not won several huge games his first year in the big east including a trouncing of highly ranked uconn when novak puts up 40 and three freshman starting/playing significant minutes.  Oh yeah, thats right Crean did not beat duke on national tv last year (a game we would have been lucky enough to schedule before crean.)  Oh thats right crean did not beat the badgers (a year long top ten team) AT madison to snap the nations longest home winning streak.  And I forgot to mention all of those preseason tournaments that we won (none of which we were predicted to win) in the past few years.  I guess he can not win something big and important.

We have not done well in the ncaa tournament the last few years, but does that honestly mean he can't win a big game.

I seem to think Bob Knight as being somewhat of a good coach:  His teams at IU didn't make it past the round of 32 once from 1995-2001 (only made it to the round of 32 twice during that span) and I don't think he did so at texas tech.

You say crean has to do something without wade.  I guess that means Coach K and Roy Williams have not proven a thing because they have only won tourney games with multiple future nba all stars/mcdonalds all americans on there team.  Jim Boeheim should be fired as he is not only not winning this year, but doing so with multiple all americans on his team.  

In fact Kentucky should get rid of Tubby Smith as he has not won many tourney games for a few years and therefore is no longer a capable coach....oh yeah, they already did....look where that has gotten them.

Be careful what you ask for.  One particular big ten program is looking for a new coach with crean being on their list before.  Maybe they will be able to secure the coach "who has not won anything without wade."  What a tradegy that would be for IU.

Sorry for being so blunt but I have heard this argument too many times from friends and it just strikes me as ridiculous.  I don't think Crean is perfect:  I love his game planning defensively, I think he has done a tremendous job making defensive strategy changes mid game, I like how he has at least made the offense exciting with an open floor plan designed to take advantage of athletic guards that can get to the hole, and I like how he is able to keep the flow of the game going with a very deep bench.  I don't like the fact that we never even attempt to enter a pass into the post, that we rarely get a look off an inbounds pass under the basket, and that we sometimes start the offense too far out.  

With that being said I still think he has done an outstanding job and to say he has never won a big game without wade is simply wrong!  I look forward to seeing his next run in the ncaa tourney and I simply hope it is with marquette.  

[Frozen Caveman Coach]

I think this whole ulitmatum thing with Crean is a bunch of crap.

"BUT- tc i love what youve done here, but you need to win something big and important w/out dwade"

I have heard this time and time again, "crean has not done anything without wade".  

Yes, that is correct, Crean has not won several huge games his first year in the big east including a trouncing of highly ranked uconn when novak puts up 40 and three freshman starting/playing significant minutes.  Oh yeah, thats right Crean did not beat duke on national tv last year (a game we would have been lucky enough to schedule before crean.)  Oh thats right crean did not beat the badgers (a year long top ten team) AT madison to snap the nations longest home winning streak.  And I forgot to mention all of those preseason tournaments that we won (none of which we were predicted to win) in the past few years.  I guess he can not win something big and important.

We have not done well in the ncaa tournament the last few years, but does that honestly mean he can't win a big game.

I seem to think Bob Knight as being somewhat of a good coach:  His teams at IU didn't make it past the round of 32 once from 1995-2001 (only made it to the round of 32 twice during that span) and I don't think he did so at texas tech.

You say crean has to do something without wade.  I guess that means Coach K and Roy Williams have not proven a thing because they have only won tourney games with multiple future nba all stars/mcdonalds all americans on there team.  Jim Boeheim should be fired as he is not only not winning this year, but doing so with multiple all americans on his team.  

In fact Kentucky should get rid of Tubby Smith as he has not won many tourney games for a few years and therefore is no longer a capable coach....oh yeah, they already did....look where that has gotten them.

Be careful what you ask for.  One particular big ten program is looking for a new coach with crean being on their list before.  Maybe they will be able to secure the coach "who has not won anything without wade."  What a tradegy that would be for IU.

Sorry for being so blunt but I have heard this argument too many times from friends and it just strikes me as ridiculous.  I don't think Crean is perfect:  I love his game planning defensively, I think he has done a tremendous job making defensive strategy changes mid game, I like how he has at least made the offense exciting with an open floor plan designed to take advantage of athletic guards that can get to the hole, and I like how he is able to keep the flow of the game going with a very deep bench.  I don't like the fact that we never even attempt to enter a pass into the post, that we rarely get a look off an inbounds pass under the basket, and that we sometimes start the offense too far out.  

With that being said I still think he has done an outstanding job and to say he has never won a big game without wade is simply wrong!  I look forward to seeing his next run in the ncaa tourney and I simply hope it is with marquette.  

Crean didn't schedule Duke.  They met in the Finals of the CBE Classic.   Knight took Texas Tech to the Sweet 16 in '05.  Boeheim has won a Nat'l Championship and had multiple Finals appearances - a little ridiculous to compare maybe?

[MUteamball98]

not at all.

crean has a final four.  if you want to give knight the sweet sixteen great.  he has not made a final four in many, many years. 

boeheim has won a national title with carmelo.  mu final four with wade.  syracuse has had much more talent then mu since that point, but who has done more with their talent?

crean didn't schedule duke but with a more high profile team was able to get scheduled to be in the tourney with duke to give them the opportunity.

i understand your position, but sometimes i think mu could have a perfect season and that still would not be enough to say crean has done a good job.  It is easy for us to be back seat coaches and to say that he should be better.  I see what happened at kentucky and i simply hope that some fans don't need a situation like that to realize what we have at mu.

there have been numerous outstanding coaches who have gone stretches without advancing in the tourney and yet still can be considered great coaches.  I think crean has won many big games and hopefully that will include more ncaa tourney games soon.

[mviale]

im as big of a crean supporter as there is- hes done a ton for this program

BUT

tc is not a big game coach yet. i dont care what anyone says...veteran team blah blah blah but you foul in that situation with 4/3 secs left past mid court

also- how is fitz not in when we have 1.5 to win in reg

also- how do you not set up a shot in the OT session. not fully his fault, players also

BUT- tc i love what youve done here, but you need to win something big and important w/out dwade

ps- team great game. hayward get it together bud. dj come on pal

pss this team is getting it together at the right time. i wholeheartedly believe that

Dude - stop sitting on the fence.  If DJ doesnt foul GT with 3 sec left, Crean is a stud in your book.

[Doctor V]

not at all.

crean has a final four.  if you want to give knight the sweet sixteen great.  he has not made a final four in many, many years. 

boeheim has won a national title with carmelo.  mu final four with wade.  syracuse has had much more talent then mu since that point, but who has done more with their talent?

crean didn't schedule duke but with a more high profile team was able to get scheduled to be in the tourney with duke to give them the opportunity.

i understand your position, but sometimes i think mu could have a perfect season and that still would not be enough to say crean has done a good job.  It is easy for us to be back seat coaches and to say that he should be better.  I see what happened at kentucky and i simply hope that some fans don't need a situation like that to realize what we have at mu.

there have been numerous outstanding coaches who have gone stretches without advancing in the tourney and yet still can be considered great coaches.  I think crean has won many big games and hopefully that will include more ncaa tourney games soon.

i agree with you and im not saying we would be better without him. im simply saying that knowing your style of play and your players, crean should have called for aggressive steal/foul type defense immediately past half court. all the guys play defense aggresively, and you are doomed to making a bonehead play in a situation like that.

also, it is INEXCUSABLE to not have fitz in the game with 1.5 secs at the end. that was a legit shot to win the game, and he is one of our best shooters.

crean didnt cost us anything yesterday, but its little things like that that make good coaches great. hes relatively inexperienced and all those things will come with years.

more importantly i think the loss may cost us a seed in the dance. likely a 6 now if you ask me. some think its better to be a 6 than a 5 and that may be true. reguardless, its a learning game and i think will help down the road

[mviale]

No, a 20 pt loss (ie louisville) doesnt equate to a game that you were winning and lost in OT.  The selection committee will take this into consideration. 

However, we must finish 23-7

[CTWarrior]

There are two sides to every story.  There are things I do not like about Coach Crean.  The lack of recruit distribution over all positions over the years, the poor clock management at the end of halves and games.  But one of my biggest problems with him a few years back was the way his teams took their foot off the accelerator when they got a working margin lead.  There were a ton of games the FF year and the following year or two where we squandered huge leads and held on for our lives in games because we stopped playing offense.  He doesn't do that anymore.  He's not working the kids so hard in practice all year after seeing how it wore the team out in past years.  The guy has enjoyed sustained success for us unlike anyone since McGuire and he continues to try to find ways to improve himself and the program..  He has been very loyal and didn't bolt like O'Neill, another coach I liked very much.

Is he perfect?  No.  Are we likely to do better with someone else?  Absolutely not.

My opinion is that this is a discussion board and we should question his recruiting and his tactics because its fun and that is part of what begin a fan is all about.  But I don't question who should be running the program.  The right guy has the job.

[MUteamball98]

fair post ctwarrior.  i am content with the ability to discuss how we feel regarding coaching decisions, just a sore subject for me since i have many friends who can not give the guy credit regardless of what he has done.  I agree, not perfect, getting better (great post on the fact that he now has instilled in the team the importance of putting on the accelerator at all times) and has been an absolute great person for the program.

mudimitri:  fair enough.  i am not sure i completely agree on the fitz comment.  i can understand it, but he barely played yesterday and would have been coming in as cold as can be.  no matter how good of a shooter you are, you are never the same coming in completely cold.  I would not argue against it but I also don't think it is unexcusable to do so.

i agree that i think yesterdays lost definitely cost us a seeding or two which is unfortunate since we outplayed gu through most all of the game.  hopefully we can regroup and come back strong against su and the be tourney. 

[mviale]

A win against Gtown would have definitely helped with the seeding. However, I know they look at late season losses and judge the loss ~ close game or not in it at all.

I wonder how they would grade yesterday?

[MUDPT]

The worst call may have been one that went to MU.  When we were up one and Wes got the rebound after the GT miss, he is dribbling up the court and was fouled by Rivers.  It was probably a good call, but there was NO ONE in front of Wes in the front court.  He could have dribbled another 5 seconds, at least before being fouled.  Then Wallace has to heave it from center court to tie, no foul in the corner.  Wes did not even lose control of the ball or anything. 

[mufan924]

crean and his long tie and diet pepsi's have no game coaching skills. you foul the player on the ground even though coaches always shy away from doing so, or at the MINIMUM, if you are not going to foul, you ENSURE that your players do not foul anyone shooting a three by emphasizing it the entire time period prior to the play.

[Pakuni]

crean and his long tie and diet pepsi's have no game coaching skills. you foul the player on the ground even though coaches always shy away from doing so, or at the MINIMUM, if you are not going to foul, you ENSURE that your players do not foul anyone shooting a three by emphasizing it the entire time period prior to the play.

1. And how exactly is it that you're certain Crean did not remind his players not to foul?

2. Why exactly should he have to "emphasizing it the entire time period prior to the play" something so obvious? Does hers not  also need to emphasize the importance of not trhowing the ball out of bounds? Should he remind his players not to shoot air balls? And, gosh darn it, whay didn't he remind his team to make their free throws? I mean, had he done that, the final shot wouldn't even have been an issue.