Recruiting as of 3/15/24

[brewcity77]

Buzz left a stacked team when he left?  Pardon??

Like Quentins (Wades) said. The confusion is understandable. I added Crean (the subject of the second sentence) and took out the "let's see Wojo" clause, which was extraneous to the sentence. Here's how BC meant it:

I would say Crean brought the program back to respectability after Mike Deane.  (Crean) got MU into the Final 4 plus left Buzz a stacked team once he (Crean) left.

[Jay Bee]

'18 PG Cameron Flynn strong at adidas Nations this weekend. Played well in Vegas (w Sam Froling & the Maker cousins)

[Lennys Tap]

???  How many coaches leave their successor with anything in year 3?

Most do. Buzz did. Two starters (Luke and JJJ) and a top reserve (Duane) on Wojo's third year team. Zero Crean Players on Buzz's third year team. Result? S16.

[wadesworld]

Most do. Buzz did. Two starters (Luke and JJJ) and a top reserve (Duane) on Wojo's third year team. Zero Crean Players on Buzz's third year team. Result? S16.

Sweet, Buzz left 3 below average players that were around 3 years later.

[Lennys Tap]

Sweet, Buzz left 3 below average players that were around 3 years later.

If they were so bad why couldn't Wojo come up with better players to replace them?

[We R Final Four]

Sweet, Buzz left 3 below average players that were around 3 years later.

Luke was a below average player?
In some categories he certainly was but overall, I would never call Luke below average.

[brewcity77]

If they were so bad why couldn't Wojo come up with better players to replace them?

Didn't he? Heldt took Fischer's starting job and most of his minutes by the end of the year. Duane's role lessened each year? JJ was the only one who saw a consistently growing role and maintained it his senior year.

I don't think they were "so bad" though, they were decent players. Good enough to be productive starters on winning teams as upperclassmen. All three were solid contributors, but also never reached the heights we hoped they would. Glad they were here, but all replaceable.

[wadesworld]

If they were so bad why couldn't Wojo come up with better players to replace them?

Because Wojo was recruiting a different caliber of player for Coach K to Duke prior to coming to Marquette. It takes years to build relationship with high major division 1 college basketball players. Years one and two Wojo was just trying to field as good of a team as he could by taking on one year rental players and starting some guys that weren't ready to start. Year three he got some talent but it was young.

Luke was a below average player?
In some categories he certainly was but overall, I would never call Luke below average.

Fair enough. Luke was average and JJJ and Duane were below average.

(No longer directed at you) Point is Buzz left Duane, JJJ, Luke, Derrick, Juan. Crean left Matthews, Jerel, Dominic, Acker, and Lazar. We're really are trying to say Buzz left Wojo more than Crean left Buzz. REALLY?!

I'll take my chances with 1 year of Matthews, McNeal, James, Acker, and a couple of Lazar, win a bunch of games, and use that to gain recruiting momentum over getting 3 average to below average guys for 3 years. Heck, you could give me Luke, JJJ, and Duane for 10 years and they still aren't going to help me much if I'm trying to build a program. If those are 3 of your best players in any given year, you're in some trouble.

[GoldenWarrior11]

The hypothetical 08-09 Crean-led team would definitely have been interesting.  Wasn't it rumored that James was going to leave?  I thought I remember that it was Buzz that convinced to him stay.  Maybe Mbakwe stays.  Tyshawn Taylor and Nick Williams were supposed to be coming in. 

[GGGG]

The hypothetical 08-09 Crean-led team would definitely have been interesting.  Wasn't it rumored that James was going to leave?  I thought I remember that it was Buzz that convinced to him stay.  Maybe Mbakwe stays.  Tyshawn Taylor and Nick Williams were supposed to be coming in. 

Nick Williams didn't turn out to be much, but you really do bring up a good point.  Tyshawn Taylor and Trevor Mbakwe would have been better than any of the players that Buzz left Wojo after three years.  The only difference is that Taylor used the opportunity to go to Kansas and Mbakwe left.

[The Equalizer]

Most do. Buzz did. Two starters (Luke and JJJ) and a top reserve (Duane) on Wojo's third year team. Zero Crean Players on Buzz's third year team. Result? S16.

Fulce and Otule were both signed under Crean (recruited by Buzz while he was as an assistant) and both on Buzz's third year roster. In addition, Hazel and Christopherson would have been on that team in year 3 if not run off, and Mbakwe if Buzz had been able to retain him. 

[Lennys Tap]

Nick Williams didn't turn out to be much, but you really do bring up a good point.  Tyshawn Taylor and Trevor Mbakwe would have been better than any of the players that Buzz left Wojo after three years.  The only difference is that Taylor used the opportunity to go to Kansas and Mbakwe left.

Mbakwe had both feet out the door before TC left. He reconsidered when Buzz was hired but ultimately stayed with his decision. Buzz did lose Taylor to Kansas, who never offered him the first time around. BTW, Wojo also lost Burton to transfer and Ahmed Hill and Mariel Shayok to V Tech and Virginia (not exactly Kansas).

[Lennys Tap]

Hazel and Christopherson would have been on that team in year 3 if not run off, and Mbakwe if Buzz had been able to retain him.

Hazel was a Crean recruit "run off" because he was a thief. He was also a lousy player who wouldn't have helped much. Christopherson was pretty good at Iowa St, but Buzz replaced him with better all around players.

[wadesworld]

Hazel was a Crean recruit "run off" because he was a thief. He was also a lousy player who wouldn't have helped much. Christopherson was pretty good at Iowa St, but Buzz replaced him with better all around players.

Like...who? There were 2 open scholarships in Buzz's first season. Christopherson wasn't run off for some better option. It wasn't Scott or Jimmy Butler. It was Scott (a 2nd Team All Big Twelve player) or an empty chair.

[Lennys Tap]

Like...who? There were 2 open scholarships in Buzz's first season. Christopherson wasn't run off for some better option. It wasn't Scott or Jimmy Butler. It was Scott (a 2nd Team All Big Twelve player) or an empty chair.

Buzz's first season we were loaded. Christopherson would have been the same as an empty chair - garbage minutes only.

[Dawson Rental]

No doubt.  Just came off as a little over the top, but I am sure Wojo and Stan are telling him what he wants to hear (as they should).

That's not happening.  A common comment from good players MU has gotten under Wojo is that Wojo is a straight shooter who tells it like it is, not someone who promises whatever he has to in order to get a commitment.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Like...who? There were 2 open scholarships in Buzz's first season. Christopherson wasn't run off for some better option. It wasn't Scott or Jimmy Butler. It was Scott (a 2nd Team All Big Twelve player) or an empty chair.

Actually Christopherson was "run off." Buzz was straight with him and said that his play style did not match what Buzz wanted to do. Basically told him to transfer because he was never going to get minutes at Marquette. Might seem harsh but ultimately probably best for both program and player.

(No longer at Wades) I don't think Mbakwe would have stayed if Crean did. There were other issues that I don't think any coach could have solved.

[real chili 83]

[quote author=TAMU Eagle link=topic=48207.msg941545#msg941545 date=1502085694

(No longer at Wades) I don't think Mbakwe would have stayed if Crean did. There were other issues that I don't think any coach could have solved.
[/quote]

Heard Mbakwe interviewed locally last month.  Sounds like he has settled down.  Playing overseas, making a decent living, married and a father.  Honestly, not the nut job I thought he was as a college player. 

[wadesworld]

Actually Christopherson was "run off." Buzz was straight with him and said that his play style did not match what Buzz wanted to do. Basically told him to transfer because he was never going to get minutes at Marquette. Might seem harsh but ultimately probably best for both program and player.

(No longer at Wades) I don't think Mbakwe would have stayed if Crean did. There were other issues that I don't think any coach could have solved.

I know Buzz ran him off. But Buzz didn't "replace him with better players."

[brewcity77]

I know Buzz ran him off. But Buzz didn't "replace him with better players."

He didn't, though I'm sure that was his intention. Not just for Christopherson, but Cooby and Acker too.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Heard Mbakwe interviewed locally last month.  Sounds like he has settled down.  Playing overseas, making a decent living, married and a father.  Honestly, not the nut job I thought he was as a college player.

Oh I didn't think he was a nut job or anything like that. He just had some personal things that needed to be sorted out away from Marquette.

[bilsu]

That's not happening.  A common comment from good players MU has gotten under Wojo is that Wojo is a straight shooter who tells it like it is, not someone who promises whatever he has to in order to get a commitment.

All coaches are salesmen. They have to be. Wojo puts together a presentation showing how he sees the player will fit in with the team. Nobody knows how well the player will actually perform. It is basically best case scenario.

[MU82]

I think it's hilarious - and Scooplicious - that we're STILL debating who screwed MU worse when he left, TC or Buzz.

[Marcus92]

I think it's hilarious - and Scooplicious - that we're STILL debating who screwed MU worse when he left, TC or Buzz.

I'm not sure why anyone cares, honestly. What difference does it make? But because it's a debate that cannot possibly be won, I don't see an end in sight.

[Golden Avalanche]

I'm not sure why anyone cares, honestly. What difference does it make? But because it's a debate that cannot possibly be won, I don't see an end in sight.

Everyone picks a hill to die on, no matter its inanity.