MUScoop

MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Wareagle on March 11, 2008, 12:48:55 AM

Title: Urinal's State player of the year...
Post by: Wareagle on March 11, 2008, 12:48:55 AM

Michael Flowers. Seriously. http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=726635 (http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=726635)
The Journal's All-State team is Flowers, Jerel, Lazar, Butch and Landry. I will update my post later when I find time to wade through the tortured logic of this article.

All State team link - http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=726634

Title: Re: Urinal's State player of the year...
Post by: Eye on March 11, 2008, 01:37:20 AM

Dominic James isn't one of the best five college basketball players in Wisconsin this year? Interesting. Kind of shoots your credibility right in the crapper IMO.

Title: Re: Urinal's State player of the year...
Post by: Wareagle on March 11, 2008, 01:43:05 AM

Quote from: Eye on March 11, 2008, 01:37:20 AM

Dominic James isn't one of the best five college basketball players in Wisconsin this year? Interesting. Kind of shoots your credibility right in the crapper IMO.

Just to be clear, it's the Journal's list, not mine.

Title: Re: Urinal's State player of the year...
Post by: MUFanInGreenBay on March 11, 2008, 02:09:59 AM

Well, James and McNeal owned the head-to-head matchups with Hughes and Flowers and MU won at UW's place earlier this season. In their view, Flowers can be the state's best player, however, MU is the state's best team which was proven on the court. That's all that matters to me.

Title: Re: Urinal's State player of the year...
Post by: Eye on March 11, 2008, 06:22:03 AM

Yep, understood War.....

Title: Re: Urinal's State player of the year...
Post by: NateDoggMarq on March 11, 2008, 06:45:11 AM

Quote from: Wareagle on March 11, 2008, 12:48:55 AM

Michael Flowers. Seriously. http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=726635 (http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=726635)
The Journal's All-State team is Flowers, Jerel, Lazar, Butch and Landry. I will update my post later when I find time to wade through the tortured logic of this article.

All State team link - http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=726634

..

That could be the most laughable list I have ever seen!!!!
Your telling me that Flowers is a better player than Dominick James and Jerel McNeal?
Talk about a player who is living off that shot against Texas!!!!

Title: Re: Urinal's State player of the year...
Post by: Mods, Delete me please. 8/26/2020 on March 11, 2008, 08:54:43 AM

Michael F'ing Flowers????????? WOW, journal. WOW.

Title: Re: Urinal's State player of the year...
Post by: The Lens on March 11, 2008, 09:09:17 AM

I guess they base it on games played and performance and not potential and promise. Yeah we beat UW and since then UW is 22-2, including wins at Texas (without Hughes, we lost Jerel last year and acted like our team plane crashed) at Indiana, at Ohio State and just about anywhere Purdue wasn't playing.

You could argue DJ or Jerel as the best in the state but their team ended up 6th in conf and since the UW game, MU never won a game they shouldn't have. Flowers is emblematic of the UW program, ugly player who just finds a way. The fact he's from Madison and not Indiana or Illinois probably helped but at the end of the day they picked the leader of the team that won conference. Heck if it was a talent contest, Torre Johnson would have a place on the 1st team.

Title: Re: Urinal's State player of the year...
Post by: BrewCity83 on March 11, 2008, 09:45:51 AM

Would you trade DJ for Flowers?

I wouldn't.

Title: Re: Urinal's State player of the year...
Post by: jt92 on March 11, 2008, 12:07:36 PM

I'm sorry but James has been very disappointing once again this year.

Title: Re: Urinal's State player of the year...
Post by: Chili on March 11, 2008, 12:27:18 PM

Quote from: jt92 on March 11, 2008, 12:07:36 PM

I'm sorry but James has been very disappointing once again this year.

I disagree.

Title: Re: Urinal's State player of the year...
Post by: Wareagle on March 11, 2008, 12:49:15 PM

Quote from: NateDoggMarq on March 11, 2008, 06:45:11 AM

Quote from: Wareagle on March 11, 2008, 12:48:55 AM
Michael Flowers. Seriously. http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=726635 (http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=726635)
The Journal's All-State team is Flowers, Jerel, Lazar, Butch and Landry. I will update my post later when I find time to wade through the tortured logic of this article.

All State team link - http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=726634
..

That could be the most laughable list I have ever seen!!!!
Your telling me that Flowers is a better player than Dominick James and Jerel McNeal?
Talk about a player who is living off that shot against Texas!!!!

They spend so much time singing his praises they barely note that he had only 7 points in the Texas game.

Title: Re: Urinal's State player of the year...
Post by: augoman on March 11, 2008, 01:11:47 PM

I reiterate; most of the j/s staff and readers are uw grads, hence their blatant bias.

Title: Re: Urinal's State player of the year...
Post by: BuzzSucksSucks on March 11, 2008, 01:39:34 PM

This just in: Wisconsin journalists of the year, all state selection 2008:

Hilltopper, Spiral, NY Warrior, Rocky, Rosiak!!

Same diff, really. Sort of like the NCAA selection committee. As if there aren't a million guys out there who could pick 64 teams and justify every one --and reasonably-- it takes no special anointing. Obviously the JS thing just reflects an irrelevant bias. And they call it news.

Title: Re: Urinal's State player of the year...
Post by: Pakuni on March 11, 2008, 02:14:58 PM

Quote from: jt92 on March 11, 2008, 12:07:36 PM

I'm sorry but James has been very disappointing once again this year.

I'd disagree with that statement.
Even so ...

"Disappointing" Dominic James >> Michael Flowers

There simply is no reasonable standard by which one can argue Flowers is a superior player to either James or McNeal.

Title: Re: Urinal's State player of the year...
Post by: muPARTY on March 11, 2008, 02:20:36 PM

Quote from: Chili on March 11, 2008, 12:27:18 PM

Quote from: jt92 on March 11, 2008, 12:07:36 PM
I'm sorry but James has been very disappointing once again this year.

I disagree.

while it's a joke Flowers was named that...

James isn't even in the top two on his own team this year (Jerel & Lazar), so him being in the discussion for Wisc Sate POY is moot.

Title: Re: Urinal's State player of the year...
Post by: BrewCity83 on March 11, 2008, 02:30:53 PM

I think the point is that if they're puttin' Flowers in the discussion, and James is better than Flowers, then James should be in the discussion.

Title: Re: Urinal's State player of the year...
Post by: ecompt on March 11, 2008, 02:31:24 PM

Michael Flowers would average six points a game and his team would go 10-8 in the Big East. The Urinal is a joke and always has been.

Title: Re: Urinal's State player of the year...
Post by: AlumKCof93 on March 11, 2008, 02:38:42 PM

That's ridiculous. DJ is the best player on the team. He runs the team, is very good defensively and creates and dishes better than anyone else on the team.

To say that McNeal has had a better year than DJ is absurd. McNeal takes too many shots, forces too many things on offense leading to turnovers or bad shots, and too often takes an ill-advised 3 early in the shot clock leading to transition baskets for our opponents. While he is a good defensive player, he takes possessions off or gets out of position reaching for a steal.

I like McNeal, but have been disappointed in his play this year. And Lazar is poor defensively and has been missing in too many big games this year to be considered better than Dominic.

I think James has gone from overrated to underrated as people take what he brings to the table for granted. He's a solid player who brings much more to the table than Flowers.

Title: Re: Urinal's State player of the year...
Post by: Mayor McCheese on March 11, 2008, 02:40:39 PM

The best is I read the Wisconsin State Journal every sunday... since that is what we have at my job... and Tom Oates, that man is a riot with his ball licking to the Big Ten. They have been trying to get Flowers drafted since the beginning of the year, now everyone else in the state is joining in... its a joke how much they love any player that wears red. The Journal would probably take back Okey if they could.

Title: Re: Urinal's State player of the year...
Post by: Chili on March 11, 2008, 03:12:00 PM

Quote from: muPARTY on March 11, 2008, 02:20:36 PM

Quote from: Chili on March 11, 2008, 12:27:18 PM
Quote from: jt92 on March 11, 2008, 12:07:36 PM
I'm sorry but James has been very disappointing once again this year.

I disagree.

while it's a joke Flowers was named that...

James isn't even in the top two on his own team this year (Jerel & Lazar), so him being in the discussion for Wisc Sate POY is moot.

James is hands down the best player on MU's roster.

Title: Agreed
Post by: NateDoggMarq on March 11, 2008, 04:08:57 PM

Agreed on James
As James goes the team goes

Title: Re: Urinal's State player of the year...
Post by: muPARTY on March 11, 2008, 04:10:27 PM

Quote from: Chili on March 11, 2008, 03:12:00 PM

Quote from: muPARTY on March 11, 2008, 02:20:36 PM
Quote from: Chili on March 11, 2008, 12:27:18 PM
Quote from: jt92 on March 11, 2008, 12:07:36 PM
I'm sorry but James has been very disappointing once again this year.

I disagree.

while it's a joke Flowers was named that...

James isn't even in the top two on his own team this year (Jerel & Lazar), so him being in the discussion for Wisc Sate POY is moot.

James is hands down the best player on MU's roster.

James, the best athlete on the roster... yes. the best player this year, no!

McNeal James Stats:
13.6- 13.3- ppg
3.8- 4.3- ast
4.7- 2.5- rbs
67.9- 66.7- ft%
27.1- 32.0- 3pt%
43.9- 41.3- fg%
2.3- 1.8- stl
2.8- 2.3- to

there stats are so very close, but i look at this team and see jerel as a more valuable asset, for this season. this wasn't based on stats, but that James has fallen off each year since that fantastic freshman yr. they both take ill-advised shots, but DJ always seems to want to launch 3s at the expense of his strenght, which is cutting to the hoop. plus TC even stated he took DJ out of a game at home and sat him because it just wasn't working with him in there.

(i've got to get back to work, so i can defend my arguement better later)

Title: Re: Urinal's State player of the year...
Post by: RawdogDX on March 11, 2008, 04:20:25 PM

Quote from: muPARTY on March 11, 2008, 04:10:27 PM

Quote from: Chili on March 11, 2008, 03:12:00 PM
Quote from: muPARTY on March 11, 2008, 02:20:36 PM
Quote from: Chili on March 11, 2008, 12:27:18 PM
Quote from: jt92 on March 11, 2008, 12:07:36 PM
I'm sorry but James has been very disappointing once again this year.

I disagree.

while it's a joke Flowers was named that...

James isn't even in the top two on his own team this year (Jerel & Lazar), so him being in the discussion for Wisc Sate POY is moot.

James is hands down the best player on MU's roster.

James, the best athlete on the roster... yes. the best player this year, no!

McNeal James Stats:
13.6- 13.3- ppg
3.8- 4.3- ast
4.7- 2.5- rbs
67.9- 66.7- ft%
27.1- 32.0- 3pt%
43.9- 41.3- fg%
2.3- 1.8- stl
2.8- 2.3- to

there stats are so very close, but i look at this team and see jerel as a more valuable asset, for this season. this wasn't based on stats, but that James has fallen off each year since that fantastic freshman yr. they both take ill-advised shots, but DJ always seems to want to launch 3s at the expense of his strenght, which is cutting to the hoop. plus TC even stated he took DJ out of a game at home and sat him because it just wasn't working with him in there.

(i've got to get back to work, so i can defend my arguement better later)

the stats are close but if you watch mu games then you have to know we are a better team with james and no mcneil then when we have mcneil in and he has to make up for the O stalling with acker at the point.

Title: Re: Urinal's State player of the year...
Post by: Chili on March 11, 2008, 04:21:35 PM

Quote from: muPARTY on March 11, 2008, 04:10:27 PM

Quote from: Chili on March 11, 2008, 03:12:00 PM
Quote from: muPARTY on March 11, 2008, 02:20:36 PM
Quote from: Chili on March 11, 2008, 12:27:18 PM
Quote from: jt92 on March 11, 2008, 12:07:36 PM
I'm sorry but James has been very disappointing once again this year.

I disagree.

while it's a joke Flowers was named that...

James isn't even in the top two on his own team this year (Jerel & Lazar), so him being in the discussion for Wisc Sate POY is moot.

James is hands down the best player on MU's roster.

James, the best athlete on the roster... yes. the best player this year, no!

McNeal James Stats:
13.6- 13.3- ppg
3.8- 4.3- ast
4.7- 2.5- rbs
67.9- 66.7- ft%
27.1- 32.0- 3pt%
43.9- 41.3- fg%
2.3- 1.8- stl
2.8- 2.3- to

there stats are so very close, but i look at this team and see jerel as a more valuable asset, for this season. this wasn't based on stats, but that James has fallen off each year since that fantastic freshman yr. they both take ill-advised shots, but DJ always seems to want to launch 3s at the expense of his strenght, which is cutting to the hoop. plus TC even stated he took DJ out of a game at home and sat him because it just wasn't working with him in there.

(i've got to get back to work, so i can defend my arguement better later)

I am sorry but you are wrong. The stats are negligible at best. To say James stats have fallen off each is to not look at the entire picture. James is playing less minutes this year than the past and his per minute stats are about the same as last year. His freshman year he benefited more than any other player to having Novak on the roster as that probably gave him another 2 assists per game he hasn't gotten the past two years. James is also the best on the ball defender the team has. Jerel is a great help defender, but I would rather see the teams best guard being played by James. Also, as a PG, his rebounding numbers should be lower than a WG.

Title: Re: Urinal's State player of the year...
Post by: RawdogDX on March 11, 2008, 04:31:10 PM

Flopwer James Stats:
9.5 13.3- ppg
2.7 4.3- ast
3.8 2.5- rbs
1.5 1.8- stl
1.9 2.3- to

Big differences in scoring and ast in james favor although he doesn't rb as well, i'd say those two things mark james as being the clearly better player.
He has more to's but because he has so many more ast he has a better ast/to.
Not to mention he draws more fouls and gets to the line a lot more often.

Title: Re: Urinal's State player of the year...
Post by: FF03 on March 11, 2008, 04:53:08 PM

Here's a more friendly All-State team

http://www.mkesports.com/CollegeBasketballAllState.html

Title: Re: Urinal's State player of the year...
Post by: NavinRJohnson on March 11, 2008, 05:03:40 PM

BTW, anyone else think Butch looks incredibly lame when he dunks?

Title: Re: Urinal's State player of the year...
Post by: BrewCity83 on March 11, 2008, 05:09:09 PM

Quote from: FF03 on March 11, 2008, 04:53:08 PM

Here's a more friendly All-State team

http://www.mkesports.com/CollegeBasketballAllState.html

That's more like it. But hey, wait a minute...where's Flowers??

Title: Re: Urinal's State player of the year...
Post by: BrewCity83 on March 11, 2008, 05:10:35 PM

Quote from: NavinRJohnson on March 11, 2008, 05:03:40 PM

BTW, anyone else think Butch looks incredibly lame when he dunks?

Butch looks incredibly lame all the time. In fact, my 8-year-old son always asks, whenever he sees Butch, "Why does he look like he's crying?"

Title: Re: Urinal's State player of the year...
Post by: Mayor McCheese on March 11, 2008, 05:14:16 PM

heres what BADger fans feel about their selection, it is quite comical.

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=193#s=193&f=2565&t=2176775

Title: Re: Urinal's State player of the year...
Post by: The Lens on March 11, 2008, 06:07:48 PM

Quote from: Mayor McCheese on March 11, 2008, 05:14:16 PM

heres what BADger fans feel about their selection, it is quite comical.

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=193#s=193&f=2565&t=2176775

Why is it comical? He's the leader, the glue of a team ranked 8th in one poll and 6th in the other. They won the Big 10. I know it's a down year but they still won it.

Steve Nash was miles behind James, Wade, Kobe, Duncan, KG etc but he was the MVP. This wasn't a talent contest.

I'm amazed people are so unglued about an over-achieving defensive-minded kid winning a made up award from a newspaper. Like I said if it was a talent contest Torre Johnson should be on there.

Title: Re: Urinal's State player of the year...
Post by: augoman on March 12, 2008, 01:08:13 PM

I agree Flowers is a valuable cog in uw's wheel, but believe they could and would be successful w/o him. Ryan's 'system' has interchangable parts. To name him 'state mvp' is silly. If urinal insists on a Madison player, then it should be leading scorer/rebounder.

Title: Re: Urinal's State player of the year...
Post by: muPARTY on March 12, 2008, 11:33:24 PM

Name Min FG 3Pt FT Off Reb Ast TO Stl Blk PF Pts
D. James 33 4-8 1-3 2-6 2 5 2 2 4 2 2 11
J. McNeal 37 7-15 1-3 6-7 2 9 4 1 1 1 1 21

Title: Re: Urinal's State player of the year...
Post by: muPARTY on March 13, 2008, 11:57:42 PM

Quote from: muPARTY on March 12, 2008, 11:33:24 PM

BET rd 1

Name Min FG 3Pt FT Off Reb Ast TO Stl Blk PF Pts
D. James 33 4-8 1-3 2-6 2 5 2 2 4 2 2 11
J. McNeal 37 7-15 1-3 6-7 2 9 4 1 1 1 1 21

BET rd 2

Name Min FG 3Pt FT Off Reb Ast TO Stl Blk PF Pts
D. James 33 4-9 2-4 0-0 1 6 6 1 2 0 3 10
J. McNeal 28 9-16 4-7 6-8 0 6 1 2 1 1 4 28

Title: Re: Urinal's State player of the year...
Post by: mcnealfan1 on March 14, 2008, 03:03:23 AM

mcneal best player on the team no question, ultimate stat filler