Good John Dawson Interview...

[Lennys Tap]

I think you are creating (yet another) false narrative to discredit your former idol.  

This. Look for it to continue - no matter what happens in 2014-15 and beyond, Ners will shoe horn the facts to fit his narrative. If, for example, Magic Dawson has a good sophomore season it will PROVE he was ready to start as a freshman. If he doesn't, it will PROVE he was ready to start as a freshman but Buzz destroyed his confidence. Mark my words.

[jesmu84]

False narrative: Buzz intentionally lost games to stick it to the administration.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Embarrassing narrative: "I am happy when Derrick Wilson does poorly"

[NersEllenson]

This. Look for it to continue - no matter what happens in 2014-15 and beyond, Ners will shoe horn the facts to fit his narrative. If, for example, Magic Dawson has a good sophomore season it will PROVE he was ready to start as a freshman. If he doesn't, it will PROVE he was ready to start as a freshman but Buzz destroyed his confidence. Mark my words.

Please Lenny.  I have no worries about Dawson turning out to be a very good player at MU.  Saw plenty of good things that will bode well for his future.  It won't be a case of him having a bad year this season...he may not get a ton of PT...but he'll play well in his minutes..and I have no doubt as a Junior he'll be a very nice player.  The kid has a lot of talent.  Yet sadly you and the other 5 clowns seem to feel Derrick Wilson was a better option last year...and the team finished with its worst record in how long??  So if it wasn't Buzz's coaching that was the problem...then it was the players...and it is ridiculous to try to point the blame at Davante and Jamil who are good enough to be on NBA Summer League rosters.

False narrative: Buzz intentionally lost games to stick it to the administration.

You might be surprised.  Buzz damn well knew he wasn't playing his best and most talented players the max minutes.  Why do you think he pulled Burton for the 6:30 of the 7:00 minutes in a win or go home game when Burton scored 23 points in 24 minutes and was flat out dominating Xavier??  Why?  Is that a good coaching decision?  Does it make ANY sense?

Embarrassing narrative: "I am happy when Derrick Wilson does poorly"

Not sure that was the quote...more along the lines of I can't say I really was rooting for him to do well...as I felt if he didn't...(and he didn't do well or improve an ounce over the course of the season), that Buzz like 99% of the coaches would recognize and finally try someone else.  WAs the only way the team was going to have a chance to win...

Yet you, Sultan, Tower, Lenny...all swore up and down Buzz's teams always get better down the stretch, we'll be fine...Buzz knows what he's doing, he's taken us to three straight Sweet 16s, therefore is beyond reproach in his coaching decisions..

And you want to know what?  I damn well know you same clowns were in a way hoping for Dawson to lay eggs so it would prop up your continued weak arguments for Derrick to continue getting 30+ minutes per game.  And as I pointed out - Derrick was heralded for his solid defensive game at UW as freshman by many..including me...yet if Dawson put up a game of 20 minutes, 0 points, 0 assists, and 3 fouls while playing solid D...you all would have been saying - see he's not ready..blah blah, blah.

End of day, Wojo knew he needed to get a proven guy at PG position and got Carlino.  NO way you'll see a program bring a 1 year rental in at a position where you have an incumbent senior who just played more minutes as a junior than any other player on the team...if you didn't feel he was a clear and totally liability.

[GGGG]

End of day, Wojo knew he needed to get a proven guy at PG position and got Carlino.  NO way you'll see a program bring a 1 year rental in at a position where you have an incumbent senior who just played more minutes as a junior than any other player on the team...if you didn't feel he was a clear and totally liability.

Right.

Which is why I wanted Carlino here.  As did TAMU.  Again, you fail to understand the very underpinnings of what we have been saying.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Not sure that was the quote...more along the lines of I can't say I really was rooting for him to do well...as I felt if he didn't...(and he didn't do well or improve an ounce over the course of the season), that Buzz like 99% of the coaches would recognize and finally try someone else.  WAs the only way the team was going to have a chance to win...

I don't remember the exact quote, but you flat out admitted that you were actively cheering against Derrick with the goal being that Derrick would be pulled so Dawson. To me that was saying that you being right was more important to you than Marquette succeeding. You could have said "Either Derrick needs to improve or be pulled" or something along those lines but instead you decided to actively root against a Marquette player, and by extension the team. This was evident by you tearing down Derrick every chance you got and discrediting him whenever he did well.

Yet you, Sultan, Tower, Lenny...all swore up and down Buzz's teams always get better down the stretch, we'll be fine...Buzz knows what he's doing, he's taken us to three straight Sweet 16s, therefore is beyond reproach in his coaching decisions..

I did think we would be fine down the stretch. I was wrong. I am not embarrassed by that fact. Previous seasons suggested we would be. Buzz is not beyond reproach, but he does know a helluva lot more about basketball than any of us. There is a difference.

And you want to know what?  I damn well know you same clowns were in a way hoping for Dawson to lay eggs so it would prop up your continued weak arguments for Derrick to continue getting 30+ minutes per game.  

Clowns? Again, why do you feel the name to insult? This paragraph is BS and you know it. I can't speak for everyone but I and the other "usual suspects" repeatedly cheered for John when he was doing well. We were ecstatic when John put up a great game against Georgetown. I went so far as to say a Dawson deserved a 20 20 playing time split with Derrick and Sultan created a thread called "Tip of the hat to Ners." We want the best for Marquette. I would be ecstatic if John does become Magic Dawesome. I don't care about being right. THAT is the difference. If Derrick is named the starter next season (something I sincerely doubt will happen) and played well, you would continue to discredit him and say something like "Buzz ruined John's confidence, otherwise he would be the starter." Please point out an example where one of the 5 "clowns" wished that John would do poorly and I will apologize and take this back.

And as I pointed out - Derrick was heralded for his solid defensive game at UW as freshman by many..including me...yet if Dawson put up a game of 20 minutes, 0 points, 0 assists, and 3 fouls while playing solid D...you all would have been saying - see he's not ready..blah blah, blah.

Expectations Ners. I keep saying it, but you keep missing the point. At UW, Derrick was expected to be a ONE time starter where he just held down the fort and hopefully didn't embarrass us at the Kohl Center. He responded by playing great defense on an elite scorer and helping the team to a marquee win. In Dawson's case, you were expecting him to be the full time starter. You need to put up better numbers to prove that you deserve to be a full time starter than to say you had a single solid game. So a 20 minute, 0 point, 0 assist, 3 fouls game with great defense is enough to prove that you had a single solid game. It is not enough to prove you deserve to be the full time starter. I used the same line of thinking when judging John's Georgetown game. It is enough to be deserving of more minutes (I said a 20 20 split), it is not enough (IMHO) to be deserving of the full time starter's position. If he continued to produce, I would have said to give the keys to him.

End of day, Wojo knew he needed to get a proven guy at PG position and got Carlino.  NO way you'll see a program bring a 1 year rental in at a position where you have an incumbent senior who just played more minutes as a junior than any other player on the team...if you didn't feel he was a clear and totally liability.

This is true. This proves Derrick was a liability. It does NOT approve that John was better. That is where you  seem to get stuck. It is not enough to prove one was bad, you have plenty of proof for that. The proof that John was good is not as apparent. He needed more minutes in order to prove that he was good. Buzz didn't give him that. I absolutely fault Buzz for that. I wanted at very least 10-15 minutes a game for Dawson so he could have the opportunity to earn the position.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Right.

Which is why I wanted Carlino here.  As did TAMU.  Again, you fail to understand the very underpinnings of what we have been saying.

Exactly.

[ATL MU Warrior]

I vaguely remember something about a pledge earlier this year...

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Please Lenny.  I have no worries about Dawson turning out to be a very good player at MU.  Saw plenty of good things that will bode well for his future.  It won't be a case of him having a bad year this season...he may not get a ton of PT...but he'll play well in his minutes..and I have no doubt as a Junior he'll be a very nice player.  The kid has a lot of talent.  Yet sadly you and the other 5 clowns seem to feel Derrick Wilson was a better option last year...and the team finished with its worst record in how long??  So if it wasn't Buzz's coaching that was the problem...then it was the players...and it is ridiculous to try to point the blame at Davante and Jamil who are good enough to be on NBA Summer League rosters.

You might be surprised.  Buzz damn well knew he wasn't playing his best and most talented players the max minutes.  Why do you think he pulled Burton for the 6:30 of the 7:00 minutes in a win or go home game when Burton scored 23 points in 24 minutes and was flat out dominating Xavier??  Why?  Is that a good coaching decision?  Does it make ANY sense?

Not sure that was the quote...more along the lines of I can't say I really was rooting for him to do well...as I felt if he didn't...(and he didn't do well or improve an ounce over the course of the season), that Buzz like 99% of the coaches would recognize and finally try someone else.  WAs the only way the team was going to have a chance to win...

Yet you, Sultan, Tower, Lenny...all swore up and down Buzz's teams always get better down the stretch, we'll be fine...Buzz knows what he's doing, he's taken us to three straight Sweet 16s, therefore is beyond reproach in his coaching decisions..

And you want to know what?  I damn well know you same clowns were in a way hoping for Dawson to lay eggs so it would prop up your continued weak arguments for Derrick to continue getting 30+ minutes per game.  And as I pointed out - Derrick was heralded for his solid defensive game at UW as freshman by many..including me...yet if Dawson put up a game of 20 minutes, 0 points, 0 assists, and 3 fouls while playing solid D...you all would have been saying - see he's not ready..blah blah, blah.

End of day, Wojo knew he needed to get a proven guy at PG position and got Carlino.  NO way you'll see a program bring a 1 year rental in at a position where you have an incumbent senior who just played more minutes as a junior than any other player on the team...if you didn't feel he was a clear and totally liability.

This seems to be getting emotional and personal for you.

Maybe it's time for a break?

You've made your case. Everybody knows how you feel.

Let it slide. Everybody move on.

[MU B2002]

This seems to be getting emotional and personal for you.

Maybe it's time for a break?

You've made your case. Everybody knows how you feel.

Let it slide. Everybody move on.

When have you ever known anyone on this site to take a break or "let it slide"?

[keefe]

When have you ever known anyone of this site to take a break or "let it slide"?

I won't say anything at all
So why don't you slide

Yeah, I'm gonna let it slide

Don't you love the life you killed?
The priest is on the phone
Your father hit the wall
Your ma disowned you

So why don't you slide

Yeah, I'm gonna let it slide


-- John Rzeznik, Goo Goo Dolls

[Coleman]

I won't say anything at all
So why don't you slide

Yeah, I'm gonna let it slide

Don't you love the life you killed?
The priest is on the phone
Your father hit the wall
Your ma disowned you

So why don't you slide

Yeah, I'm gonna let it slide


-- John Rzeznik, Goo Goo Dolls

Keefe,

Put your arms around me. What you feel is what you are and what you are is beautiful.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

When have you ever known anyone on this site to take a break or "let it slide"?

Gotta start someplace.

Offseason debates about Buzz's motivations, playing time, projected improvements and he said/she said seems like a good place to start.

[Lennys Tap]

This is true. This proves Derrick was a liability. It does NOT approve that John was better. That is where you  seem to get stuck. It is not enough to prove one was bad, you have plenty of proof for that. The proof that John was good is not as apparent.

Exactly. Derrick was a liability. We all knew that. So did Buzz. He knew it so well he even tried Jamil (briefly) and Todd (even more briefly) at the point. Doesn't that indicate that he knew? But he was still trying to win each game, and from what he saw every day, he felt Derrick afforded him the best opportunity to do that. Very simple, even if Ners wants to turn it into a psychological thriller with conspiratorial overtones.

[MU82]

When have you ever known anyone on this site to take a break or "let it slide"?

I gave myself a Derrick Moratorium for a month last year and stuck by it.

About two weeks ago, I gave myself another Derrick Moratorium at least until Marquette Madness and I will stick by it.

There are no new points to be made right now. None.

[NersEllenson]

I don't remember the exact quote, but you flat out admitted that you were actively cheering against Derrick with the goal being that Derrick would be pulled so Dawson. To me that was saying that you being right was more important to you than Marquette succeeding. You could have said "Either Derrick needs to improve or be pulled" or something along those lines but instead you decided to actively root against a Marquette player, and by extension the team. This was evident by you tearing down Derrick every chance you got and discrediting him whenever he did well.

I did think we would be fine down the stretch. I was wrong. I am not embarrassed by that fact. Previous seasons suggested we would be. Buzz is not beyond reproach, but he does know a helluva lot more about basketball than any of us. There is a difference.

Clowns? Again, why do you feel the name to insult? This paragraph is BS and you know it. I can't speak for everyone but I and the other "usual suspects" repeatedly cheered for John when he was doing well. We were ecstatic when John put up a great game against Georgetown. I went so far as to say a Dawson deserved a 20 20 playing time split with Derrick and Sultan created a thread called "Tip of the hat to Ners." We want the best for Marquette. I would be ecstatic if John does become Magic Dawesome. I don't care about being right. THAT is the difference. If Derrick is named the starter next season (something I sincerely doubt will happen) and played well, you would continue to discredit him and say something like "Buzz ruined John's confidence, otherwise he would be the starter." Please point out an example where one of the 5 "clowns" wished that John would do poorly and I will apologize and take this back.

Expectations Ners. I keep saying it, but you keep missing the point. At UW, Derrick was expected to be a ONE time starter where he just held down the fort and hopefully didn't embarrass us at the Kohl Center. He responded by playing great defense on an elite scorer and helping the team to a marquee win. In Dawson's case, you were expecting him to be the full time starter. You need to put up better numbers to prove that you deserve to be a full time starter than to say you had a single solid game. So a 20 minute, 0 point, 0 assist, 3 fouls game with great defense is enough to prove that you had a single solid game. It is not enough to prove you deserve to be the full time starter. I used the same line of thinking when judging John's Georgetown game. It is enough to be deserving of more minutes (I said a 20 20 split), it is not enough (IMHO) to be deserving of the full time starter's position. If he continued to produce, I would have said to give the keys to him.

This is true. This proves Derrick was a liability. It does NOT approve that John was better. That is where you  seem to get stuck. It is not enough to prove one was bad, you have plenty of proof for that. The proof that John was good is not as apparent. He needed more minutes in order to prove that he was good. Buzz didn't give him that. I absolutely fault Buzz for that. I wanted at very least 10-15 minutes a game for Dawson so he could have the opportunity to earn the position.

On first bolded - No...Marquette succeeding is what matters most to me...and I knew it wasn't going to happen with Derrick getting 30+ minutes at the PG position prior to December of last year....it wasn't about being right...it was absolutely and totally about wanting Marquette and the 11 other guys on the team to be able to succeed.  Derrick is a backup PG...10 minutes a game...that's it...you play the guy with the higher ceiling and live with some of the growing pains....uh..I think that's what Green Bay did with Brett Farve...and many NFL teams with their QBs...RG III, Luck, Russell Wilson, Peyton Manning - just because they are rookies doesn't mean they are going to perform worse than a veteran..

And why would Dawson "have to continue to produce," when at the time of the Georgetown game we had roughly 20 of 24 games where Derrick didn't produce jack....and teams weren't even guarding him within 6 feet on the perimeter.  Never seen anything like in high major ball.  We had no transition game with Derrick at PG.  NO offensive flair.  Just awful.  He doesn't turn the ball over because he never tries to make plays, nor did he ever have to worry about even being defended tightly on the perimeter..hard to turn it over when your defender is 6 feet off of you!

I love who Derrick is as a kid, as a human being  - that doesn't mean he should be immune from criticism, nor played as much as he was...given how poor his (and the team's) production was.

Hell Derrick even told Buzz during Georgetown game to keep playing Dawson...once again Buzz didn't want to do it...yet...we know the outcome.  And as for assessing a player...for the last time - NO - You do not get a feel for what a guy can do when you play him for 3, 2 to 3 minute stints, and in that time have him play with up to 10 different guys...as Buzz's maniacal subbing resulted in at times last year.  Was the dumbest coaching I'd ever seen.  And again...Mayo looked liked a totally different player the last 10 games of the year ONLY because Buzz finally gave him long, uninterrupted stretches of run, regardless of him making a few mistakes.  The sad part was the only two guys who got that luxury (long stretches of run), were Derrick and Jake...and it led to virtually no offensive production at all.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

On first bolded - No...Marquette succeeding is what matters most to me...and I knew it wasn't going to happen with Derrick getting 30+ minutes at the PG position prior to December of last year....it wasn't about being right...it was absolutely and totally about wanting Marquette and the 11 other guys on the team to be able to succeed.

Frankly, I don't believe you. Because if that were true, you would still cheer for Derrick when he was playing well. You didn't. You constantly tried to tear him down and discredit him when he was playing well. I also don't believe you because you were against Carlino coming in. PG is our most obvious position of need and you didn't want to bring in a quality graduate transfer at the position because "it would cut into Dawson's playing time." Honestly, it seems like you are more focused on trying to prove a point than about the team succeeding. Isn't that what you accuse Buzz of doing?

I'm not going back into the Dawson Derrick stuff. Because it's been said ad naseum. We are both smart people. We both have the same data. We come to different conclusions. Neither one of us can definitively prove the other one wrong. That happens some times. It really doesn't bother me

[NersEllenson]

Frankly, I don't believe you. Because if that were true, you would still cheer for Derrick when he was playing well. You didn't. You constantly tried to tear him down and discredit him when he was playing well. I also don't believe you because you were against Carlino coming in. PG is our most obvious position of need and you didn't want to bring in a quality graduate transfer at the position because "it would cut into Dawson's playing time." Honestly, it seems like you are more focused on trying to prove a point than about the team succeeding. Isn't that what you accuse Buzz of doing?

I'm not going back into the Dawson Derrick stuff. Because it's been said ad naseum. We are both smart people. We both have the same data. We come to different conclusions. Neither one of us can definitively prove the other one wrong. That happens some times. It really doesn't bother me

That's not true TAMU...I voted Derrick SOTG after I think the home game at Xavier....and gave him kudos a few times over the course of last season.  He had roughly 5-6 nice games out of 32. The rest were pretty bad.  As for Carlino coming in - yeah - Can't say I loved it..as I do feel it would hamper the growth/playing time of Dawson and Duane...and Carlino has had some team chemistry issues...and simply feel Dawson and Duane would be good enough to give the position a major shot in the arm...and who knows...maybe Derrick will have improved and morphed into a respectable shooter this offseason..

The data we have is 17-15 and missed the NIT and worst season in MU basketball I think since the Kevin O'Neill's first year on the job.  No way Buzz's 6th team should have been that bad...and particularly not with as much talent as he had on it.

At least we got a nice debate rolling here...as for wanting to be right about stuff...I find it funny that you and my other 4 "adversaries" on this debate already had been trying to claim that if the team is much better next year and Derrick is reduced to a minimal role on the team....it won't point toward Derrick having been the main and most significant problem with last year's team...it's okay for you boys to admit you were wrong all season long last year...you were..Buzz was...and the season was a disaster...when it didn't have to be.

[tower912]

You say 'adversaries'.   I say fans with different perspectives.    And quit putting words in my mouth.   I haven't said anything about next year's team other than we are small and I have concerns.    Not a single word about Derrick's minutes and how it relates to next year's record.     Your megalomania on this topic is now in its 7th month.   Seek help.  

[Galway Eagle]

That's not true TAMU...I voted Derrick SOTG after I think the home game at Xavier....and gave him kudos a few times over the course of last season.  He had roughly 5-6 nice games out of 32. The rest were pretty bad.  As for Carlino coming in - yeah - Can't say I loved it..as I do feel it would hamper the growth/playing time of Dawson and Duane...and Carlino has had some team chemistry issues...and simply feel Dawson and Duane would be good enough to give the position a major shot in the arm...and who knows...maybe Derrick will have improved and morphed into a respectable shooter this offseason..

The data we have is 17-15 and missed the NIT and worst season in MU basketball I think since the Kevin O'Neill's first year on the job.  No way Buzz's 6th team should have been that bad...and particularly not with as much talent as he had on it.

At least we got a nice debate rolling here...as for wanting to be right about stuff...I find it funny that you and my other 4 "adversaries" on this debate already had been trying to claim that if the team is much better next year and Derrick is reduced to a minimal role on the team....it won't point toward Derrick having been the main and most significant problem with last year's team...it's okay for you boys to admit you were wrong all season long last year...you were..Buzz was...and the season was a disaster...when it didn't have to be.

Not be nitpicky here but I'd take 17-15 over the 14-15 last year of mike deane or the 15-14 second year of Tom Crean (the first 15-14 year we went to the NIT at least) so while it was a terrible season it wasn't the worst since O'Neill's first year.

[bilsu]

To me it is a two edge sword, because the coach is mostly responsible for the talent level of the team. However, I do not think last year's team was that talented. 4 seniors of which none of them was close to being drafted. Three juniors two of which have no chance to be drafted and Mayo who has very little chance of being drafted. One sophomore who is not likely to be drafted. The real talent was in the freshmen class, which did not receive much playing time for whatever reason you want to argue.

[Galway Eagle]

To me it is a two edge sword, because the coach is mostly responsible for the talent level of the team. However, I do not think last year's team was that talented. 4 seniors of which none of them was close to being drafted. Three juniors two of which have no chance to be drafted and Mayo who has very little chance of being drafted. One sophomore who is not likely to be drafted. The real talent was in the freshmen class, which did not receive much playing time for whatever reason you want to argue.

In all fairness you can't really judge an injured/rarely used sophomore yet.  I still maintain that Taylor puts it together... Maybe not enough to get drafted but to turn some heads. 

[real chili 83]

That's not true TAMU...I voted Derrick SOTG after I think the home game at Xavier....and gave him kudos a few times over the course of last season.  He had roughly 5-6 nice games out of 32. The rest were pretty bad.  As for Carlino coming in - yeah - Can't say I loved it..as I do feel it would hamper the growth/playing time of Dawson and Duane...and Carlino has had some team chemistry issues...and simply feel Dawson and Duane would be good enough to give the position a major shot in the arm...and who knows...maybe Derrick will have improved and morphed into a respectable shooter this offseason..

The data we have is 17-15 and missed the NIT and worst season in MU basketball I think since the Kevin O'Neill's first year on the job.  No way Buzz's 6th team should have been that bad...and particularly not with as much talent as he had on it.

At least we got a nice debate rolling here...as for wanting to be right about stuff...I find it funny that you and my other 4 "adversaries" on this debate already had been trying to claim that if the team is much better next year and Derrick is reduced to a minimal role on the team....it won't point toward Derrick having been the main and most significant problem with last year's team...it's okay for you boys to admit you were wrong all season long last year...you were..Buzz was...and the season was a disaster...when it didn't have to be.

Time for that exorcism.

[NersEllenson]

Time for that exorcism.

LOL - If you can round up TAMU, Sultan, Tower, and Lenny to join in as well...I'll be happy to participate. They need to be exorcised of their Derrick love just as much as I need to be exorcised of my Dawson love.

[keefe]

Derrick

Love the new avatar!! Brilliant!