Oso planning to go pro
Boy. Saying Buzz inherited “starters” David Cubillan and Mo Acker in year 2 from Tom Crean is really a stretch. In their first year with Buzz they averaged 2.8 and 1.6 points per game, 1.4 and .5 rebounds per game and 1.8 and .2 assists per game. Yes, they started for Buzz in his second year, but the guys Buzz got from Crean were end of the bench guys, not starters.
Tell you what...before we go further, I'm going to give you a chance to just retract and concede that this is a terrible point and your attempt to dispute my post is wholly without any merit.
Your post is insane and Lenny is right
I know you have some looney takes, but you can't possibly think that the program was in a worse place when Crean left than it was when he arrived, can you? You're just trolling at this point, right?
Where did I say the program was in worse shape when Crean left than when he arrived? Here's the answer: Nowhere. I said the cuboard in Year 2 was empty. If you think a roster in Year 2 for Buzz that left behind Lazar, Mo Acker, and David Cubillian was a full cupboard, well, per usual we see things differently.Most Big East teams weren't forced into starting two guards who clocked in under 5'10" and one of whom didn't weigh more than 165 lbs.Lenny said it best. And what's funny is the posters here up in arms over this point insisted Wojo inherited an empty cupboard with 8 Top 100 recruits - none of whom were massively undersized at their positions.S16, S16, Elite 8, trumps Crean's 1 Final Four, and of course Crean got knocked out in D-Wades sophomore year by a 14 seed in Round 1.Lastly, I'm not a Crean hater at all. Very grateful for what he did at MU. There's no bias against Crean. I just think Buzz was a better coach. You can look at how each has perforrmed since leaving MU - Crean had 1 run while at IU but ended up getting fired, and then performed even worse at Georgia, getting fired again.
Love that we're arguing a coaching change that happened 16 years ago.But I will say the coaching job Buzz did in 09-10 was among the best I've seen. It helps having experience but he adjusted to his personnel beautifully.
Thanks for the offer, Brew - but I’ll decline. I’ll expand on my point tonight - too busy today.
Who gets credit is not what the argument is.
The simple question is one of facts.Did Tom Crean recruit David Cubillan? Yes. Did David Cubillan start all 34 games for Marquette in 2009-10? Yes.Did Tom Crean recruit Maurice Acker? Yes. Did Maurice Acker appear in all 34 games, starting 21, and rank top-5 in total minutes played for Marquette in 2009-10? Yes.Did Tom Crean recruit Lazar Hayward? Yes. Did Lazar Hayward start all 34 games for Marquette in 2009-10? Yes.Tom Crean also recruited Joe Fulce, who was committed before Crean left. He started the other 13 games that Acker didn't start.So by any measure, trying to dispute that Crean left three players that started on the 2009-10 team, which was not Buzz's "Year 1", is simply at odds with reality. Contending such is wrong. This isn't a debate, a discussion, or any form of discourse. They were not starters on Buzz's first team, but in his second year, they were. And Crean left them behind.Buzz inherited an absolutely loaded team, arguably the most top-to-bottom loaded with talent team since the 1970s. He had four of the top ten scorers in program history, 175/175 starts in 2009 and 103/170 starts in 2010 were inherited players, all good enough to start for top-6 NCAA seeds. We know that because that's what they did. It's similar to pieces Wojo left for Shaka. Justin Lewis, Greg Elliott, Oso Ighodaro, Stevie Mitchell, and Kam Jones are all guys Wojo gets credit for bringing to Marquette and for leaving "in the cupboard".This isn't an opinion discussion. It's a fact based one. Hindsight is 20/20, and in this case, there's simply no disputing what we actually know happened.
5 seeds don’t play 14 seeds round one.Also, was MU not allowed to recruit during Buzz’s first year? Why was he “forced” to start two small guards his second year?
#fakenews
Good catch. I thought we were a 3 that year. Nonetheless, stellar coaching job leading a team with DWade to a first round loss against Tulsa.Do you feel Crean was a better coach than Buzz? Seems you haven't weighed in on the topic, so lets get your rankings!
I think Buzz is a better basketball coach, but Crean improved the program more than Buzz did and was a more important coach to the program.
The more important question is:Who effing cares?
Similarly, I think most were stunned when Buzz took the team with Cubillan and Acker at guard to the NCAAs. I don’t see Crean getting into the tournament with that roster.
No. This was never about “credit.” It was Elon’s statement that it was left “EMPTY” in year two. It was not. What Buzz did with that team was great. But he simply wasn’t left with an empty cupboard for his second year. Which honestly is a strange metric anyway. I’ve clearly heard “he was left with an empty cupboard” before. But I don’t think I’ve heard “he was left with an empty cupboard for year two” before this topic. But year two, the new coach can get his guys in the door. Just like Buzz and Shaka did.