MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: HutchwasClutch on April 05, 2015, 08:58:09 PM
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I am sick to death of Badger and Tom Crean talk dominating this board.
Throwing this out there knowing full well things can and will change with regard to rosters before next year, however, not likely to be any seismic shifts. For the most part, we have a pretty good picture of what each program will look like next year.
1) Butler - maybe the best returning tandem in Dunham and Roosevelt Jones. Holtman showed some serious coaching ability being thrust into the HC job about 10 days before practices began. What will he do with a full year to prepare now as their HC?
2) Villanova - Hart and Arcidiacano return. Hilliard is a major loss, but a strong recruiting class highlighed by Brunson incoming. Jay Wright is having issues winning in the NCAA's, but not much else to question about his coaching ability.
3) Xavier- Jalen Reynolds looks like a budding star. Remy Abell, Myles Davis (two solid guards), and Trevon Bluiett are nice players too. Mack is an underrated coach I think. Their recruiting class doesn't look like much right now, but if they could pull in a solid grad transfer, that may put them over the top.
4) Marquette - We'll see what Wojo can add this spring, but Henry's a program changing type player, and with Fischer in the middle, that's an unrivaled 4-5 tandem in the league. Duane Wilson should keep improving and be more consistent. They badly need a grad transfer to help out and lead the young guys. Shonn Miller from Cornell would just be a huge get for MU, and I think a player of his caliber puts theme in the top 3 in conference next year.
5) Seton Hall- Lots and lots of raw talent returning, but then you got Kevin Williard as the coach. They seem like a boom or bust, so I'll hedge my guess and pick them right in the middle of the conference. On talent alone they can play with anyone. But we all know talent alone does not dictate outcomes.
6) Georgetown - Losing a lot, especially with Smith-Rivera, and they don't seem to have the type of incoming recruits to make a huge impact next year. It looks like a mini-rebuilding year next season for JTIII.
7) Providence - I only put them a spot ahead of Creighton under the presumption of Kris Dunn returning. That's a huge if right now. They don't seem to have a lot else looking ahead to next season. If Dunn goes pro, major rebuilding year or two for Cooley.
8) Creighton - I'm no recruiting insider, but it sure seems to me they are just not yet bringing in recruits to Big East caliber, at least to compete at the top of the conference. Chatman is gone, returning guys seem rather ordinary.
9) DePaul- It's DePaul. Garrett Jr. is a nice player (haven't heard about a transfer with the coaching change?) They have a couple of other nice players returning (again, not knowing who might be staying and leaving with the coaching change).
10) St. John's - Not sold at all on Mullin's hire, short or long term, and they're losing pretty much everyone who mattered from this year's NCAA team that stunk it up in the Big East and NCAA tournaments. I'm betting they lose both Obekpa and Ry. Jordan. They're almost starting over it seems.
Will have to see how the chips fall in this spring's recruiting and look at this again around June 1.
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Butler is really going to miss Woods and the PG Barlow. Woods really gave Butler height and length that it will no longer have. Barlow was just a tough guy and could hit the boards.
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Brunson will be better than Hilliard.
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Brunson will be better than Hilliard.
If that's right, a scary thought for the rest of the league.
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Brunson will be better than Hilliard.
In time, sure, but I doubt freshman Brunson will be better than senior Hilliard.
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Butler is really going to miss Woods and the PG Barlow. Woods really gave Butler height and length that it will no longer have. Barlow was just a tough guy and could hit the boards.
Yep. Butler was good because of their defense. Barlow (4.0% steal rate, 3.6 FC/40) and Woods (insane 28% DR%, 3.5% blk, 2.3% stl, only 2.6 fc/40) are bye bye. Don't like 'em a ton in 2015-16.
Georgetown has a few guys who can take an impressive freshman-to-sophomore leap and some unique incoming frosh. Could be a tough team.
Providence.. watch out for Alex Owens. Understand the rebounding skills my man has.
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Yep. Butler was good because of their defense. Barlow (4.0% steal rate, 3.6 FC/40) and Woods (insane 28% DR%, 3.5% blk, 2.3% stl, only 2.6 fc/40) are bye bye. Don't like 'em a ton in 2015-16.
Georgetown has a few guys who can take an impressive freshman-to-sophomore leap and some unique incoming frosh. Could be a tough team.
Providence.. watch out for Alex Owens. Understand the rebounding skills my man has.
Agree with Georgetown. They have Leak, Copeland, Campbell and White, all of whom saw significant time as freshman. They also have two four star recruits, including #46 player, a center Morgan. But, they lost both starting guards so we will see.
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In time, sure, but I doubt freshman Brunson will be better than senior Hilliard.
Honestly, the most dominating high school player I've ever seen live, and that includes Jabari and Henry. Now granted, college game is different and he's a guard, not a forward but the kid is unbelievable.
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This isn't a fully formed thought yet, but as the rosters currently stand my initial thoughts are
1. Villanova
2. Butler
3. Xavier
4. Providence
5. Georgetown
6. Seton Hall
7. Marquette
8. Depaul
9. Creighton
10. St. John's
The one I can't figure out is Seton Hall. On paper they should be 3rd to 5th but I just don't trust Willard to keep them together
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Brunson will be better than Hilliard.
Have a buddy who played D1 Hoops on an NCAA Championship team, and he teaches in Jalen's main rival HS, Lake Forest. He watched almost every Stevenson HS game, and insists that this 'Nova recruit is overrated. I think my buddy is nuts, but he did call Jimmy Butler "an eventual NBA All-Star"...and he did this in JFB's limited rookie year!
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In time, sure, but I doubt freshman Brunson will be better than senior Hilliard.
+1000
Probably eventually, but not next year.
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Georgetown will be a top 3 team in conference next season with several quality players having a year of college hoops to build off of.
Think MU finishes 6th.
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Georgetown will be a top 3 team in conference next season with several quality players having a year of college hoops to build off of.
Think MU finishes 6th.
I think 6th is overly optimistic.
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I think we are the BIG Unknown next year.
Optimistically, we could finish third and be a 8th or 9th seed in the NCAA, with lots more to come.
Pessimistically, we could finish 8th or 9th in the Big East and have serious problems in the program.
Depends on how college ready Henry is; whether we have the guard play necessary to be a championship caliber team; and, what intangibles Wojo brings to the equation this year.
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Need another month to see how the transfers pan out, if any, as this team is way to young to be that good, these are good players but not the freshman that Duke and Kentucky get every
year. At least 6 to 7 of those kids will be drafted next year to the NBA
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Need another month to see how the transfers pan out, if any, as this team is way to young to be that good, these are good players but not the freshman that Duke and Kentucky get every
year. At least 6 to 7 of those kids will be drafted next year to the NBA
Henry Ellenson is most certainly the caliber of freshman Duke and Kentucky bring aboard their programs every year.
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What sucks is the NBE looks top heavy again, like two years ago. I hope it gets to the point where it sends 6 teams consistently to the Dance, instead of 3 or 4.
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Thoughts off the top of my head...
1) Villanova: Most of their players return. Even losing Ennis, they'll be very good. Archie, Brunson, and Hart in the backcourt, Ochefu up front, and Booth and Jenkins as supporting cast is a strong base to build on.
2) Xavier: Yes, they lose Stainbrook and Davis, but they have plenty of strength up front led by Reynolds and a backcourt with Myles Davis, Blueitt, and Abell will be damn good. I'd vote them most likely to challenge Villanova for the title.
3) Butler: Woods and Barlow are huge losses, but Jones and Dunham are back and I think Wideman will do okay replacing Woods. After 'Nova and Xavier, I think it's a dogfight for 3rd, Butler has a slight edge.
4) Marquette: This may be overly optimistic, but I'm expecting another impact player or two to be added to a roster that already has a proven scorer in Duane, a solid big in Luke, and a McDonald's All-American in Henry.
5) Providence: This assumes Kris Dunn returns. If not, they fall pretty far down. Despite losing Henton and Desrosiers, their frontcourt will be solid with Bentil and Chukwu. Cooley has done a good job recruiting. We'll see just how good next year.
6) Georgetown: If not for DSR declaring, they'd be a solid #2 for me. Instead, we'll find out in a hurry how good Tre Campbell is. The Hoyas have a ton of young talent, if they gel quickly and find a leader, they would likely be higher.
7) Creighton: This is the last team I could see contending for a NCAA bid, and I may be underselling the. I know they lose a lot, but Milliken and Zierden are pretty good. Hegner was a solid contributor as well. I think redshirt freshman Ronnie Harrell will be an immediate impact guy, and they have a guard named Maurice Watson who could be an All-Big East level player. Sat out on a transfer last year, but he is very, very good.
8) Seton Hall: When Jaren Sina left, the Pirates were still clinging to NCAA dreams. They went 1-6 without him and crashed out of all postseason play. I won't deny the talent of freshmen Whitehead, Carrington, and Delgado, and Sterling Gibbs is a stud, but this team is completely dysfunctional and Kevin Willard has no clue how to manage them.
9) DePaul: Two years out of the cellar, hang a banner! Garrett, Henry, and Hamilton showed they could play at this level, but other than a few more surprise upsets, it will be a long first year for Dave Leitao. If the transfer bug hits this team (seems unlikely) it will be an even longer first year.
10) St. John's: I have come around to liking the Mullin hire, but unless there are major changes, they will be awful this year. They lost 5/7 rotation players to graduation and the other two are considering going pro. Even if they return, who will join them? If Mullin can pull off some magic, keep Obekpa and Jordan, add Cheick Diallo and a couple grad transfers, they could be closer to the middle, but as of right now, they have the cellar to themselves.
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Henry Ellenson is most certainly the caliber of freshman Duke and Kentucky bring aboard their programs every year.
Maybe, he played at a small school up north, I think there as never been a white kid that left college after his freshman year. Sam Dekker was ranked just about as high, it took him a few years to become a factor, and I would say really the last month he has been outstanding much like Vander did 2 years ago, but it sure did not help him out leaving early. Not sure Ellenson
is at the same level as the kids I viewed at the Final 4 and I was there. Hope I am wrong, hope he steps up and is a real force.
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Maybe, he played at a small school up north, I think there as never been a white kid that left college after his freshman year. Sam Dekker was ranked just about as high, it took him a few years to become a factor, and I would say really the last month he has been outstanding much like Vander did 2 years ago, but it sure did not help him out leaving early. Not sure Ellenson
is at the same level as the kids I viewed at the Final 4 and I was there. Hope I am wrong, hope he steps up and is a real force.
The fact that he's a white kid from Rice Lake is a total irrelavancy. He's got the NBA's attention already. He was very solid for USA Basketball last summer. He had his pick of any program in the nation.
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Maybe, he played at a small school up north, I think there as never been a white kid that left college after his freshman year. Sam Dekker was ranked just about as high, it took him a few years to become a factor, and I would say really the last month he has been outstanding much like Vander did 2 years ago, but it sure did not help him out leaving early. Not sure Ellenson
is at the same level as the kids I viewed at the Final 4 and I was there. Hope I am wrong, hope he steps up and is a real force.
Kevin Love
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FWIW Creighton has a lot more talent coming than going out.
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FWIW Creighton has a lot more talent coming than going out.
I believe you're right, but we'll see. I think Watson will be fantastic, Harrell has a chance to make a quick impact, but I'm not sold on any of their freshmen yet. Patton might be a good one, but he could probably use a redshirt year to bulk up. Brooks, Chatman, Kreklow, Artino, and Dingman are pretty significant losses.
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Kevin Love
Boxer, good find I forgot about Kevin Love, so hoping Henry is as good as him, but being selfish, like to see him play 2 years at MU. I believe Wojo is one recruiting class short of being really
good.
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Boxer, good find I forgot about Kevin Love, so hoping Henry is as good as him, but being selfish, like to see him play 2 years at MU. I believe Wojo is one recruiting class short of being really
good.
Agree there completely. He's done a great job, even if they do nothing this spring (which I don't believe they won't add at least a guy or two). But he's got to follow it up with another good - very good class in '16.
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The fact that he's a white kid from Rice Lake is a total irrelavancy. He's got the NBA's attention already. He was very solid for USA Basketball last summer. He had his pick of any program in the nation.
I do believe playing at a small school up north does make a difference. He is not in Milwaukee day in and day out to play against better competition or Chicago playing against the best in that
town. All of a sudden he will be playing against kids that are just as tall and talented. I remember a certain players that came to MU as freshman who were ranked in the Top 5, Bernard Toone and Butch Lee, Butch averaged like 8 points as a freshman and Bernard less than that. Will see. I do understand that MU talent is not the same right now as then and Al played up to seniors.
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I do believe playing at a small school up north does make a difference. He is not in Milwaukee day in and day out to play against better competition or Chicago playing against the best in that
town. All of a sudden he will be playing against kids that are just as tall and talented. I remember a certain players that came to MU as freshman who were ranked in the Top 5, Bernard Toone and Butch Lee, Butch averaged like 8 points as a freshman and Bernard less than that. Will see. I do understand that MU talent is not the same right now as then and Al played up to seniors.
AAU and international competition now days negates much of that. It might have effected his coaching when he was younger but with his Dad being a former D1 player I feel he got fairly good influence.
Boxer, good find I forgot about Kevin Love, so hoping Henry is as good as him, but being selfish, like to see him play 2 years at MU. I believe Wojo is one recruiting class short of being really
good.
If he can be even half as good as Love's 17.5 and 10 I'd be ecstatic.
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AAU and international competition now days negates much of that. It might have effected his coaching when he was younger but with his Dad being a former D1 player I feel he got fairly good influence.
If he can be even half as good as Love's 17.5 and 10 I'd be ecstatic.
Pretty impressive year from Love as a freshman, I was thinking 12 and 6 would be a good year from Henry. Not sure how Henry is going to defend, like most top seniors in high school, they really do not play much D. Al won in 1977 because Bernard could not play D, so they played zone and won the championship with a huge front line averaging 6'10". At least we have something to talk about for next year.
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Henry's played against top competion over the years with MN PNR / D1 Minnesota, WI PGE, USA BBall, etc, not to mention playing varsity against older kids starting years ago.
Anyway, BEast.., I think some are too high on Creighton... and not high enough on Georgetown
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A new player to watch on Butler is transfer Tyler Lewis.
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Some posters on here are so down about this year that they're completely underselling how much better we will be next year. That is also ignoring how much worse most of our conference is getting. Georgetown losing DSR is huge.
There's no reason to think MU can't make the dance next year. The combo of Henry and Luke will already be the best frontcourt Marquette has had in a decade.
Duane is going to benefit a lot from his time last year. I hope JJJ stays and continues to improve. My only worry is how the PG play is if Duane indeed does play the 2.
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Totally agree with the shark. Our frontcourt will be formidable and I expect to finish top 5 in conference, though hoping for more obviously. Traci carter will lead us!
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Some posters on here are so down about this year that they're completely underselling how much better we will be next year. That is also ignoring how much worse most of our conference is getting. Georgetown losing DSR is huge.
There's no reason to think MU can't make the dance next year. The combo of Henry and Luke will already be the best frontcourt Marquette has had in a decade.
Duane is going to benefit a lot from his time last year. I hope JJJ stays and continues to improve. My only worry is how the PG play is if Duane indeed does play the 2.
Yeah I have been one of the few that's been very optimistic for next year in terms of being a tourney team again.
Another transfer or two added will only boost my confidence.
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Some posters on here are so down about this year that they're completely underselling how much better we will be next year. That is also ignoring how much worse most of our conference is getting. Georgetown losing DSR is huge.
There's no reason to think MU can't make the dance next year. The combo of Henry and Luke will already be the best frontcourt Marquette has had in a decade.
Duane is going to benefit a lot from his time last year. I hope JJJ stays and continues to improve. My only worry is how the PG play is if Duane indeed does play the 2.
Better than Jimmy, Jae, Outle and Gardner?
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Better than Jimmy, Jae, Outle and Gardner?
1) Jimmy and Jae played in our frontcourt but were not really 4's or 5's. Both play the 2 in the NBA. We were always prone to being manhandled in the paint whenever a team had a semi decent 6'10 or bigger guy
2) When Jae and Jimmy were here Otule and Gardner were not extremely impactful.
3) The years we had Otule and Gardner as upperclassmen neither of them were better with the other on the court. It was normally one or the other.
We have (on paper) two bigs who perfectly compliment each other. Henry has the play-making and shooting abilities of a guard and Luke has the moves to score on pretty much any guy 1 on 1 (as he showed quite often this year). Couple Luke up with a guy like Henry who demands attention and you have a mismatch. If they double Luke like they did this year he will have more talent to dish the ball to. If they don't double him I expect Luke to add some more post moves this offseason and thrive.