MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: ChitownSpaceForRent on March 14, 2016, 11:47:30 AM
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Hearing that it may be dropping down to 8 teams due to lack of interest, or canceled all together. Oops.
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I totally understand, but as a fan that's too bad. I would like to see another tournament get a little play, for teams were good but maybe don't get in based on NIT auto bids. I feel that way completely aside from MU's position, but just at how hungry I am to see as much college bball as humanly possible in March.
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Anything beyond the NIT is not worth it in my mind. Also, I don't see how it is worth it monetarily for whomever is running the Vegas tourney. The teams in it are Northern Illinois, Boise State, UCSB, Oakland, Towson, ODU, ETSU and La. Tech. Not sure how playing these teams in this tourney would have helped us next year, so it was a good decision.
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This would have to get legs under it before brand schools such as MU would participate. And by then hopefully we are off and running in a better place. Wouldn't have an issue if MU played in an event that had some quality college Bball teams who happen to be in a down yr. Seems like all the auto bids in NCAA and NIT open the door for this type of event. But maybe not, we'll see.
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My assumption is that the creators of the Vegas 16 felt confident that they'd be able to "steal" some bigger name schools from the NIT to play in their flashy, new tournament instead. Obviously, that plan bombed.
In no particular order...
LSU
Florida
Ohio State
Florida State
South Carolina
St. Mary's
Princeton
Marquette
Georgia
Alabama
BYU
Washington
Ole Miss
Northwestern
Clemson
Memphis
...could have made for an interesting tournament, but had no chance of materializing.
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They didn't even need to steal teams from the NIT, there were plenty of teams left-over that would have made it an interesting event. But all the big conference teams decided they didn't want to play in this for whatever reason. Oh well.
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They didn't even need to steal teams from the NIT, there were plenty of teams left-over that would have made it an interesting event. But all the big conference teams decided they didn't want to play in this for whatever reason. Oh well.
My guess is no one wanted to be first. That Marquette waited two hours to announce they wouldn't be participating tells me they were playing the wait and see game. Had MU and K-State (among others) made the jump, my guess is others would have followed, but no one wanted to go and risk playing mediocre competition.
Still disappointed personally.
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The two week wait couldn't have helped.
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Probably a good thing MU isn't going to Vegas. Not exactly a who's who.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CdigSZ1W4AAL5VM.jpg)
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Not winning that tournament would have been a big disappointment with that field.
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Beyond glad we're not a part of that travesty.
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It was a bad deal to begin with. I would have told them the deal should have been they pay us $50,000 AND comped hotels and airfare plus double elimination tournament.
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Seems like a chicken or egg thing. With it's current field, I'm glad MU isn't in it. If all the other big conference teams like MU would have gone, it could have been interesting with...
Kansas State
LSU
Ole Miss
Arizona State
UCLA
Georgetown
Marquette
Northwestern
Penn State
Richmond
NC State
Clemson
Arkansas
Memphis
Tennessee
Illinois
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Amazed they didn't get more play considering the price. $50k for the tournament is cheap compared to the $50k per game the CBI charges.
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...UCSB...
Playing in the UCSB band in the NCAA tournament was one of my best Marquette memories. They had finals during tournament week so they needed 10-15 to fill out the band. UCSB emailed MU and about 10 MU bandos filled in the rest of Gaucho band. We got to watch two tourney games (for free) and they even paid us a stipend.
Oh, and the whole Gaucho band was plastered at game time, which was pretty amusing.
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Playing in the UCSB band in the NCAA tournament was one of my best Marquette memories. They had finals during tournament week so they needed 10-15 to fill out the band. UCSB emailed MU and about 10 MU bandos filled in the rest of Gaucho band. We got to watch two tourney games (for free) and they even paid us a stipend.
Oh, and the whole Gaucho band was plastered at game time, which was pretty amusing.
That's very cool--that last sentence was not what I thought that you were going to say.
Did you teach them 'you can call me Al'?
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Did you teach them 'you can call me Al'?
No, we only played the music they had in their folders, most of which wasn't very good
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Playing in the UCSB band in the NCAA tournament was one of my best Marquette memories. They had finals during tournament week so they needed 10-15 to fill out the band. UCSB emailed MU and about 10 MU bandos filled in the rest of Gaucho band. We got to watch two tourney games (for free) and they even paid us a stipend.
Oh, and the whole Gaucho band was plastered at game time, which was pretty amusing.
And then what happened at band camp?
(Sorry ... couldn't resist.)
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Amazed they didn't get more play considering the price. $50k for the tournament is cheap compared to the $50k per game the CBI charges.
Plus, hosting a CBI game you have to hope to sell enough tickets. Hiring security, staff to host a game.
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I think the CBI is $50,000 for each home game in the opening rounds. Then $75,000 per home game once in the semi-finals.
Looking at their attendance figures from last year, there were as many games with crowds less than 1,000, than there were with 3,000+
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Playing in the UCSB band in the NCAA tournament was one of my best Marquette memories. They had finals during tournament week so they needed 10-15 to fill out the band. UCSB emailed MU and about 10 MU bandos filled in the rest of Gaucho band. We got to watch two tourney games (for free) and they even paid us a stipend.
Oh, and the whole Gaucho band was plastered at game time, which was pretty amusing.
I totally remember that game, as I dropped in on it. UCSB vs. Ohio State. Wasn't pretty for the Gauchos, but their mascot was pretty hilarious if I remember correctly.
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Amazed they didn't get more play considering the price. $50k for the tournament is cheap compared to the $50k per game the CBI charges.
I'm not sold on the $50k being the "all-inclusive" cost everyone thinks it is... thankfully, all 8 teams are from public universities, so eight FOIA requests (one request, actually, and seven copies) should tell us the answer a couple months from now.
Place your bets.
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peace to Northern Illinois and the god Marshawn Wilson
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Probably a good thing MU isn't going to Vegas. Not exactly a who's who.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CdigSZ1W4AAL5VM.jpg)
Looking like the Great Alaska Shootout in recent years....
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Funny seeing that Vegas 16 Logo with eight teams. Need to hire the Big Ten's graphic designers to make it look like an eight.
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They need to go with Vegas '16 this year and take advantage of the calendar year
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They need to go with Vegas '16 this year and take advantage of the calendar year
Yeah. Worked out nicely this year.
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I'm not sold on the $50k being the "all-inclusive" cost everyone thinks it is... thankfully, all 8 teams are from public universities, so eight FOIA requests (one request, actually, and seven copies) should tell us the answer a couple months from now.
Place your bets.
Even if it's not, my guess is it isn't near as expensive as the CBI. Loyola spent $250,000 to play in the CBI last year. But as they would probably be paying for coach airfare and standard rooms (likely at a nice discount) I can see that amount covering all costs for an event lasting less than a week.
Vegas is relatively cheap to get to. They make all their money on the casino floor.
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They didn't even need to steal teams from the NIT, there were plenty of teams left-over that would have made it an interesting event. But all the big conference teams decided they didn't want to play in this for whatever reason. Oh well.
This explanation is a little "out there", and may show up on the AlexJones network, but could the lack of big-name school participation (and they were clearly available) have something to do with the same reason there is no NBA or NFL franchise in Vegas? These leagues, as hypocritical as it is, don't want to admit the huge gambling sums involved with their games. March Madness is the most gambled-on of all. And we know the NCAA is " Hypocrisy " defined. Did the NCAA wish this Vegas tournament didn't exist? And, powerless to stop it, did it instruct "name" programs to steer clear?
Just sayin'.
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Funny seeing that Vegas 16 Logo with eight teams. Need to hire the Big Ten's graphic designers to make it look like an eight.
They just need to change it to Vegas '16. I think the tournament is a good idea, too bad it didn't get traction cause I think it's a better option than CBI/CIT. Has anyone seen their brackets? Complete garbage.
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I'm disappointed a couple power schools like MU couldn't convince 6 others to join and make it a good tournament. Very disappointed in fact. The CBI and CIT are crap, and the NIT is less and less relevant... had it been properly organized, this could have been the #2 tournament.
Too many folks saying anything other than the NCAA is "beneath us". What about the players, the experience, developing the coaching staff, playing in a "win or go home" environment. What about that is beneath us?
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I don't disagree the Vegas 16 could be fun for fans. But...are schools really going to be interested to play in a post season tournament that you'd be embarrassed to hang banners for -- because winning it means you're roughly the #100 team in the country?
Seems pretty clear all the major basketball schools are giving the middle finger to all the pay-to-play tourneys.
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This explanation is a little "out there", and may show up on the AlexJones network, but could the lack of big-name school participation (and they were clearly available) have something to do with the same reason there is no NBA or NFL franchise in Vegas? These leagues, as hypocritical as it is, don't want to admit the huge gambling sums involved with their games. March Madness is the most gambled-on of all. And we know the NCAA is " Hypocrisy " defined. Did the NCAA wish this Vegas tournament didn't exist? And, powerless to stop it, did it instruct "name" programs to steer clear?
Just sayin'.
I doubt it's the gambling. The big conference schools play in the preseason tournaments, and the MWC and Pac-14 just held their conference tournaments in Vegas. It may be because the NCAA doesn't want this to challenge the NIT as the best alternative.
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Too many folks saying anything other than the NCAA is "beneath us". What about the players, the experience, developing the coaching staff, playing in a "win or go home" environment. What about that is beneath us?
A major college hoops program doesn't participate in mid- and low-major tournaments.
Listen, there's nothing wrong with deciding you want to be a true competitor and participate in every event you can... but most able-bodied competitors are going to draw a line well before they're caught sneaking into the Special Olympics.
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No, we only played the music they had in their folders, most of which wasn't very good
You're really going to critique their music? Our music isn't much better. I've been hearing the same rotation of songs for the last 10 years. I think it wasn't until last year when they finally added Mark Ronson. I think it's time we move on from the Mighty Mighty Bosstones
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You're really going to critique their music? Our music isn't much better. I've been hearing the same rotation of songs for the last 10 years. I think it wasn't until last year when they finally added Mark Ronson. I think it's time we move on from the Mighty Mighty Bosstones
The band adds 6-7 new songs every year to a library of 100+. Sometimes the arrangements suck, so we don't end up using them (the arrangement we had of seven nation army was AWFUL).
UCSB had like 10 songs, total.
Ps...show up for pregame to hear more band variety
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A major college hoops program doesn't participate in mid- and low-major tournaments.
Listen, there's nothing wrong with deciding you want to be a true competitor and participate in every event you can... but most able-bodied competitors are going to draw a line well before they're caught sneaking into the Special Olympics.
If all the big conference teams decided to play would it still be a mid-major event?
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If all the big conference teams decided to play would it still be a mid-major event?
IMHO, it would have been interesting if MU and 7 other majors all played. But if it was MU and 7 of the 8 currently scheduled, it would have been painful. Win - people say "so what?" Lose - Hiroshima.
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they finally added Mark Ronson.
Don't know about Mark Ronson but the world was a lesser place when this guy left it
(http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/36/5a/f1/365af197f412f472197b3c10d5afe0c0.jpg)
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...show up for pregame to hear more band variety
Questions never asked:
"Should we hit the Lanche or get to the Arena early to listen to the pep band?"
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If all the big conference teams decided to play would it still be a mid-major event?
No, it wouldn't. But the fact that no major school decided to play makes it a mid-major event (at best).
The Great Alaska Shootout used to be a major event, but now that the majors stopped going there, it's been a mid-major tournament the past 5 years.
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They just need to change it to Vegas '16. I think the tournament is a good idea, too bad it didn't get traction cause I think it's a better option than CBI/CIT. Has anyone seen their brackets? Complete garbage.
I wouldn't say garbage. ?-(
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The band adds 6-7 new songs every year to a library of 100+. Sometimes the arrangements suck, so we don't end up using them (the arrangement we had of seven nation army was AWFUL).
UCSB had like 10 songs, total.
Ps...show up for pregame to hear more band variety
That's classic. MU ripping on another school about their band. Does MU still have Elvira in heavy rotation???
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I don't disagree the Vegas 16 could be fun for fans. But...are schools really going to be interested to play in a post season tournament that you'd be embarrassed to hang banners for -- because winning it means you're roughly the #100 team in the country?
Seems pretty clear all the major basketball schools are giving the middle finger to all the pay-to-play tourneys.
I don't see the downside. $50K and you get to reward the kids with a trip to Vegas. I think teams are scared to lose or be associated with a low-level tournament. That's kind of backwards thinking. It isn't that you are playing in the tournament, but rather you aren't good enough for the NIT/NCAA is the problem. No one will know or care whether you play or don't play in these tourneys.
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I don't see the downside. $50K and you get to reward the kids with a trip to Vegas. I think teams are scared to lose or be associated with a low-level tournament. That's kind of backwards thinking. It isn't that you are playing in the tournament, but rather you aren't good enough for the NIT/NCAA is the problem. No one will know or care whether you play or don't play in these tourneys.
Doug Gottlieb will know, and if MU was the giant amongst dwarfs at this year's Vegas 16, I'm sure he - and others - would be reminding their audiences next year at any opportunity they could get.
Bottom line... the Vegas 16 is the girl across the bar that seems like a great idea at 2:25a, but when you wake up the next morning, you're really going to regret it, and if your friends catch you with her, you'll never hear the end of it.
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I've changed my mind on it.
A week ago, I thought the Vegas 16 sounded like a good idea. Now that the conference tournament is over, with the inevitable let down that occurs, I see no reason to extend the season. Marquette shouldn't have to pay to be part of a tournament. I don't care if donor money would be used - a waste of money is a waste of money. Little value in preparing for next year. Let's just move on and start working on next year.
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I've changed my mind on it.
A week ago, I thought the Vegas 16 sounded like a good idea. Now that the conference tournament is over, with the inevitable let down that occurs, I see no reason to extend the season. Marquette shouldn't have to pay to be part of a tournament. I don't care if donor money would be used - a waste of money is a waste of money. Little value in preparing for next year. Let's just move on and start working on next year.
I'm in the same frame of mind now as well. Unless there is interest from the power BB leagues, this thing is going nowhere. Also, even if interest comes, the time frame is so far out. Should schedule it in between the. NCAA 2nd Round and the Regionals. In the meantime, forget it.
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Questions never asked:
"Should we hit the Lanche or get to the Arena early to listen to the pep band?"
Well played by a keen mind, reflecting the profound analytical skills, only a Jesuit school of higher learning can provide :)
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The Vegas16 has the highest average power rating of the three non-NCAA supported tournaments:
Vegas 16 adds up to being a better tournament than we thought
http://www.reviewjournal.com/opinion/columns-blogs/ron-kantowski/vegas-16-adds-being-better-tournament-we-thought
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So it's better than the CBI and CIT. Yay?
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The Vegas16 has the highest average power rating of the three non-NCAA supported tournaments:
Vegas 16 adds up to being a better tournament than we thought
http://www.reviewjournal.com/opinion/columns-blogs/ron-kantowski/vegas-16-adds-being-better-tournament-we-thought
Talk about putting lipstick on a pig. Until they get some major schools to play in the tourney, it will be the same as the CBI/CIT.
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When Oakland is the best team in the field, the right call was made to stay home again.
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Talk about putting lipstick on a pig. Until they get some major schools to play in the tourney, it will be the same as the CBI/CIT.
+1 I thought our LV writer was really reaching here.
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When Oakland is the best team in the field, the right call was made to stay home again.
Why? It would of fit in perfectly with this year's schedule.
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Why? It would of fit in perfectly with this year's schedule.
Sadly, any of the teams in the Vegas 16 would have been better than any of the home games we scheduled this year :D
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Sadly, any of the teams in the Vegas 16 would have been better than any of the home games we scheduled this year :D
And sadly, MU might not have even won the Vegas 16 with the current field.
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http://www.si.com/extra-mustard/2016/03/28/photos-vegas-16-basketball-tournament-empty-seats-fans-attendance
Anyone here still think this was a good idea?
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Yeah I think this idea sounded better three or four weeks ago. In retrospect watching Marquette play in this tournament would haven't been all that compelling even if the field was better. Players got to go home for break. Coaches got out on the road.
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http://www.si.com/extra-mustard/2016/03/28/photos-vegas-16-basketball-tournament-empty-seats-fans-attendance
Anyone here still think this was a good idea?
come on, that must be the media day shoot around, heyn'a? parking problems? beer line? i know, super sale happy hour at the gun store-and she's loading 'em up fer ya
(https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ806vbPWJTbcZrdz8DegYQm_4kANhQ56cnf9W5dMwAa3zMxLevAQ)
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http://www.si.com/extra-mustard/2016/03/28/photos-vegas-16-basketball-tournament-empty-seats-fans-attendance
Anyone here still think this was a good idea?
Looks like a DePaul game.
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come on, that must be the media day shoot around, heyn'a? parking problems? beer line? i know, super sale happy hour at the gun store-and she's loading 'em up fer ya
(https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ806vbPWJTbcZrdz8DegYQm_4kANhQ56cnf9W5dMwAa3zMxLevAQ)
Pretty sure that gun shop is next to a day care.
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Pretty sure that gun shop is next to a day care.
i think you have to be 21 to be allowed in to gun store in order to try out any of their stuff. better than a "naughty but nice" boutique though-ein'a
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I actually stopped on the channel last night for a few minutes when channel surfing and only because of Scoop. The Mandaly was pretty empty.
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I still think it was a good idea, because I could use a trip to Vegas and MU being in it would of been my excuse to go.
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If better teams like Marquette would have gone it could have been a decent event. They didn't, so it's not.
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I still think it was a good idea, because I could use a trip to Vegas and MU being in it would of been my excuse to go.
i was just in vegas for the opening of march madness 3/17-20. now 2 hours south in havasu city. leaving to go back to wisconsin friday, but if MU would have been in it, i would have definitely gone back up early. i have to fly out of vegas anyway. saw lady antebellum at madalay bay arena last year. it's a nice, mid-range facility with luxury suites. the monte carlo is opening their new arena next week. that makes 4 nice facilities just in that city-madalay bay, MGM, monte carlo and the thomas and mack(UNLV) what a city! next up-NFL??
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It is just weird that MU didn't want an opportunity to give the guys some more live action. An extra 3 (or ~10%) games would be nice for all the freshmen who didn't get much tournament experience. Is it more of a pride thing or a money thing? I think this tourney draws a lot better if you have MU and 5 big state schools. Definitely could have been marketed as a Ellenson/Simmons tourney that would bring in just as many scouts as fans that showed up.
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Your missing the brand spankin new T Mobile arena rocket. Now we just need a hockey team.
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Your missing the brand spankin new T Mobile arena rocket. Now we just need a hockey team.
i had an opportunity as i had a 19th floor suite 3/17-20 and they offered us deals for the opening, but aside from maybe guns n roses on the 8th, the opening lineup seemed pretty weak to me. and guns n roses?? are those guys still alive and taking in solids? george strait and kacy musgraves in sept is a possibility as we will be coming back around then. btw., i didn't think the dixie beaches were even still around either. i read an article where they said all of the suites are sold out for.... i also heard UNLV vs duke will be there? hockey would be great-the vegas gamblers vs chitown hawks would be awesome!
http://www.axs.com/venues/101949/t-mobile-arena-las-vegas-tickets
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i had an opportunity as i had a 19th floor suite 3/17-20 and they offered us deals for the opening, but aside from maybe guns n roses on the 8th, the opening lineup seemed pretty weak to me. and guns n roses?? are those guys still alive and taking in solids? george strait and kacy musgraves in sept is a possibility as we will be coming back around then. btw., i didn't think the dixie beaches were even still around either. i read an article where they said all of the suites are sold out for.... i also heard UNLV vs duke will be there? hockey would be great-the vegas gamblers vs chitown hawks would be awesome!
http://www.axs.com/venues/101949/t-mobile-arena-las-vegas-tickets
I think I speak for everyone on this board that we're shocked you're not into Nicki Minaj. :o
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I think I speak for everyone on this board that we're shocked you're not into Nicki Minaj. :o
+1000. LOL. You are an insightful man! Despite their politics, I actually thought the Dixie beach's music was kinda snappy knee slapping stuff and wouldn't mind seeing them live...first bad comment about the Donald though and I'm outa there
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Your missing the brand spankin new T Mobile arena rocket. Now we just need a hockey team.
Surprised "spankin" isn't part of the arena's official name, being in Vegas and all....
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i had an opportunity as i had a 19th floor suite 3/17-20 and they offered us deals for the opening, but aside from maybe guns n roses on the 8th, the opening lineup seemed pretty weak to me. and guns n roses?? are those guys still alive and taking in solids? george strait and kacy musgraves in sept is a possibility as we will be coming back around then. btw., i didn't think the dixie beaches were even still around either. i read an article where they said all of the suites are sold out for.... i also heard UNLV vs duke will be there? hockey would be great-the vegas gamblers vs chitown hawks would be awesome!
http://www.axs.com/venues/101949/t-mobile-arena-las-vegas-tickets
wondering about the old ages of GnR but not George Strait?
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Surprised "spankin" isn't part of the arena's official name, being in Vegas and all....
If you're spankin' in Vegas, you're not doing something right. Or you didn't bring enough money.
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+1000. LOL. You are an insightful man! Despite their politics, I actually thought the Dixie beach's music was kinda snappy knee slapping stuff and wouldn't mind seeing them live...first bad comment about the Donald though and I'm outa there
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wondering about the old ages of GnR but not George Strait?
I'll bet guns n roses did more drugs per capita than George though. So in drug years, gnr has him beat hands down. Country guys were born with a bottle of beer in their hand though ein'a or was it jack?
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Y'all understand that opening night is a week from today. Killers paired with Wayne Newton. I'll have to call off my Markus surveillance to attend!
We need hockey bad.
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Y'all understand that opening night is a week from today. Killers paired with Wayne Newton. I'll have to call off my Markus surveillance to attend!
We need hockey bad.
i didn't think it would be that hard to bring in some talent that wouldn't resemble "weekend with bernie" chriminey, newton was mickey jackson's plastic surgeon's 2nd best patient
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Y'all understand that opening night is a week from today. Killers paired with Wayne Newton. I'll have to call off my Markus surveillance to attend!
We need hockey bad.
Don't forget LV native Shamir will be there too!
#NHLtoLasVegas
Haven't seen anything happening lately...
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I'm not sold on the $50k being the "all-inclusive" cost everyone thinks it is... thankfully, all 8 teams are from public universities, so eight FOIA requests (one request, actually, and seven copies) should tell us the answer a couple months from now.
Place your bets.
Thanks to FOIA, we can finally give this a post mortem (I got lazy and only sent one request out, however). I didn't find anything extremely juicy, but there were a few notable provisions that may shed some light:
Vegas 16’s entry fee was $50,000; however, it was reduced to $45,000 because the field was reduced from 16 to 8.
[The contract was amended eight days after Selection Sunday with the reduced fee and number of teams, so while it's pretty clear that the tournament promoter couldn't find 16 teams to commit, in taking over a week to amend an existing contract, it's likely that either a) the promoter struggled just to get to 8 and/or b) somewhere between 9-15 teams committed and there was some negotiation between the promoter and the schools as to how the fee would be reduced.]
For the entry fee, the tournament promoter provided the following:
14 regular rooms, 1 suite, and meeting space at a hotel selected by promoter
22 R/T tickets on Southwest Airlines (or another carrier selected by promoter) -OR- up to $10,000 reimbursement if university arranged its own transportation.
Ground transportation to/from airport, hotel, practice sites and games.
30 complimentary game tickets
22 tickets to tournament’s welcome reception
22 tournament gift packages.
Off-site practice facilities the day prior to the university’s first-round game
[So I was wrong. $50,000 (or $45,000 as it turned out) was the all-inclusive price; so that doesn't seem so bad, except....]
The contract prohibited the university from disclosing their acceptance or participation in the tournament to anyone.
[It is unclear as to if any other potential participants were even been disclosed to the university (by the tournament promoter) prior to its acceptance (even then, there was no guarantee that any of such schools being discussed would have been selected)... but what is clear is that AD's & coaches wouldn't have been able to chat up their counterparts at other schools to see who was considering participating in the tourney, and this may have been a non-starter for Marquette and other high-majors to go into the tournament with blinders on... I'm sure under no circumstances did MU want to be the only high-major playing in a tourney with a bunch of mids- and lows-.]
The universities executed the contracts the week prior to Selection Sunday, and the contract granted the tournament promoter the option (but not the obligation) to invite the university to the Vegas 16, in which case the university participation in the Vegas 16 was mandatory unless the university was selected for the NCAA Tournament.
[In other words, by agreeing to participate in the V16 in advance (with no guarantee of even being selected), a university would have had to decline an NIT bid had they been selected for both the V16 and NIT. I imagine this was the deal breaker for Marquette... MU probably wanted to at least keep its NIT hopes alive wasn't going to commit to the V16 before the NIT bracket was announced.]
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Great update. That last requirement would have been an absolute deal breaker.
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[In other words, by agreeing to participate in the V16 in advance (with no guarantee of even being selected), a university would have had to decline an NIT bid had they been selected for both the V16 and NIT. I imagine this was the deal breaker for Marquette... MU probably wanted to at least keep its NIT hopes alive wasn't going to commit to the V16 before the NIT bracket was announced.]
That is nuts and pretty much guaranteed this tourney had no major programs or even mid majors. I understand why they did it from a scheduling standpoint but that really insured only small programs, who had no chance for the NIT, would accept.
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That is nuts and pretty much guaranteed this tourney had no major programs or even mid majors. I understand why they did it from a scheduling standpoint but that really insured only small programs, who had no chance for the NIT, would accept.
Chicken dinner.
The more I think about how the V16 dug their own grave with this provision, they would assuredly have buried themselves without it.... i.e. their choice was essentially either a) lets fill the bracket with "less-than-NIT" talent or b) run the risk of not having enough teams to fill the bracket the day after Selection Sunday. The marginal upside of 'b' panning out is minimal, at best... so risk-reward made 'a' the obvious choice for the promoter. Of course in retrospect, they ended up with both, but at least they were able to put together an 8-team tourney, and considering it was the inaugural year, that has to be some sort of consolation. Unfortunately, I have a feeling it's going to take a few iterations and some positive exposure before the likes of Marquette and other high-majors are participating in this tourney regularly... if it even returns.
Unfortunately, I can't FOIA the promoter to see if they even made any money on this thing.
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I'm just impressed that Benny actually filed a FOIA request to bring us this info.
Not that I don't love all you people, but I'm usually only willing to invest, at most, a three-minute google search to advance a Scoop thread...
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Playing in the UCSB band in the NCAA tournament was one of my best Marquette memories. They had finals during tournament week so they needed 10-15 to fill out the band. UCSB emailed MU and about 10 MU bandos filled in the rest of Gaucho band. We got to watch two tourney games (for free) and they even paid us a stipend.
Oh, and the whole Gaucho band was plastered at game time, which was pretty amusing.
Was UCSB playing in Milwaukee?
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Thanks to FOIA, we can finally give this a post mortem (I got lazy and only sent one request out, however). I didn't find anything extremely juicy, but there were a few notable provisions that may shed some light:
Vegas 16’s entry fee was $50,000; however, it was reduced to $45,000 because the field was reduced from 16 to 8.
[The contract was amended eight days after Selection Sunday with the reduced fee and number of teams, so while it's pretty clear that the tournament promoter couldn't find 16 teams to commit, in taking over a week to amend an existing contract, it's likely that either a) the promoter struggled just to get to 8 and/or b) somewhere between 9-15 teams committed and there was some negotiation between the promoter and the schools as to how the fee would be reduced.]
For the entry fee, the tournament promoter provided the following:
14 regular rooms, 1 suite, and meeting space at a hotel selected by promoter
22 R/T tickets on Southwest Airlines (or another carrier selected by promoter) -OR- up to $10,000 reimbursement if university arranged its own transportation.
Ground transportation to/from airport, hotel, practice sites and games.
30 complimentary game tickets
22 tickets to tournament’s welcome reception
22 tournament gift packages.
Off-site practice facilities the day prior to the university’s first-round game
[So I was wrong. $50,000 (or $45,000 as it turned out) was the all-inclusive price; so that doesn't seem so bad, except....]
The contract prohibited the university from disclosing their acceptance or participation in the tournament to anyone.
[It is unclear as to if any other potential participants were even been disclosed to the university (by the tournament promoter) prior to its acceptance (even then, there was no guarantee that any of such schools being discussed would have been selected)... but what is clear is that AD's & coaches wouldn't have been able to chat up their counterparts at other schools to see who was considering participating in the tourney, and this may have been a non-starter for Marquette and other high-majors to go into the tournament with blinders on... I'm sure under no circumstances did MU want to be the only high-major playing in a tourney with a bunch of mids- and lows-.]
The universities executed the contracts the week prior to Selection Sunday, and the contract granted the tournament promoter the option (but not the obligation) to invite the university to the Vegas 16, in which case the university participation in the Vegas 16 was mandatory unless the university was selected for the NCAA Tournament.
[In other words, by agreeing to participate in the V16 in advance (with no guarantee of even being selected), a university would have had to decline an NIT bid had they been selected for both the V16 and NIT. I imagine this was the deal breaker for Marquette... MU probably wanted to at least keep its NIT hopes alive wasn't going to commit to the V16 before the NIT bracket was announced.]
Thank You for doing this due diligence.
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I'm just impressed that Benny actually filed a FOIA request to bring us this info.
Not that I don't love all you people, but I'm usually only willing to invest, at most, a three-minute google search to advance a Scoop thread...
Wow, barf ... you actually give it 3 whole minutes? That's triple what my lazy arse is willing to do!
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Was UCSB playing in Milwaukee?
Yeah they played Ohio State in the 2-15 game
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Excellent work Benny.
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Thanks for the great follow-up. Very thorough, very interesting.
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Thanks to FOIA, we can finally give this a post mortem (I got lazy and only sent one request out, however). I didn't find anything extremely juicy, but there were a few notable provisions that may shed some light:
Vegas 16’s entry fee was $50,000; however, it was reduced to $45,000 because the field was reduced from 16 to 8.
[The contract was amended eight days after Selection Sunday with the reduced fee and number of teams, so while it's pretty clear that the tournament promoter couldn't find 16 teams to commit, in taking over a week to amend an existing contract, it's likely that either a) the promoter struggled just to get to 8 and/or b) somewhere between 9-15 teams committed and there was some negotiation between the promoter and the schools as to how the fee would be reduced.]
For the entry fee, the tournament promoter provided the following:
14 regular rooms, 1 suite, and meeting space at a hotel selected by promoter
22 R/T tickets on Southwest Airlines (or another carrier selected by promoter) -OR- up to $10,000 reimbursement if university arranged its own transportation.
Ground transportation to/from airport, hotel, practice sites and games.
30 complimentary game tickets
22 tickets to tournament’s welcome reception
22 tournament gift packages.
Off-site practice facilities the day prior to the university’s first-round game
[So I was wrong. $50,000 (or $45,000 as it turned out) was the all-inclusive price; so that doesn't seem so bad, except....]
The contract prohibited the university from disclosing their acceptance or participation in the tournament to anyone.
[It is unclear as to if any other potential participants were even been disclosed to the university (by the tournament promoter) prior to its acceptance (even then, there was no guarantee that any of such schools being discussed would have been selected)... but what is clear is that AD's & coaches wouldn't have been able to chat up their counterparts at other schools to see who was considering participating in the tourney, and this may have been a non-starter for Marquette and other high-majors to go into the tournament with blinders on... I'm sure under no circumstances did MU want to be the only high-major playing in a tourney with a bunch of mids- and lows-.]
The universities executed the contracts the week prior to Selection Sunday, and the contract granted the tournament promoter the option (but not the obligation) to invite the university to the Vegas 16, in which case the university participation in the Vegas 16 was mandatory unless the university was selected for the NCAA Tournament.
[In other words, by agreeing to participate in the V16 in advance (with no guarantee of even being selected), a university would have had to decline an NIT bid had they been selected for both the V16 and NIT. I imagine this was the deal breaker for Marquette... MU probably wanted to at least keep its NIT hopes alive wasn't going to commit to the V16 before the NIT bracket was announced.]
A nice way to hopefully usher in a more substantive discourse on this board heading into the fall.
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I really thought this tournament was a great idea with great potential, but they clearly dug their own grave. If they had
a) encouraged AD's to discuss and mutually accept
b) changed the selection criteria to avoid interference with NIT acceptance
Then a few big schools would have no doubt found it attractive... especially those with young talent who need tournament experience.
Now I see the end result is a function of the organizers mistakes. Maybe they try and change the process and have one more run at it. Otherwise, it's dead.
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That is nuts and pretty much guaranteed this tourney had no major programs or even mid majors. I understand why they did it from a scheduling standpoint but that really insured only small programs, who had no chance for the NIT, would accept.
Yeah, that's a shoot-yourself-in-the-foot type provision. Hard to be at all disappointed knowing that was in the contract.
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I really thought this tournament was a great idea with great potential, but they clearly dug their own grave. If they had
a) encouraged AD's to discuss and mutually accept
b) changed the selection criteria to avoid interference with NIT acceptance
Then a few big schools would have no doubt found it attractive... especially those with young talent who need tournament experience.
Now I see the end result is a function of the organizers mistakes. Maybe they try and change the process and have one more run at it. Otherwise, it's dead.
Absolutely agree. Couldn't execute it any worse. The right answer would have been to BEG teams just off the NIT bubble to team up by phone and agree to come. Who can't figure out that Wojo and Collins might have brought their teams if they had the ability to coordinate? And if I had paid money for TV, that's exactly what I would have wanted to happen. Haven't these clowns ever heard of 'sponsor exemptions'?