Wisconsin

[tower912]

Likely.   One solution to the priest shortage is fewer parishes.   

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Collection baskets don't get filled by virtual attendees.

Then set up other ways to give. 

[Pakuni]

Then set up other ways to give.

There are other ways to give, but church-goers don'tuse them. Saw a story around the time the stay-at-homes began that said something like only 10 percent of church donations are made online, although nearly all churches had online setups.

I'm not justifying the bishop's remarks, just explaining the financial incentive to get people in the pews.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Then set up other ways to give.

About 60% of our church donates via EFT.

Our priest was encouraging people to bring empty envelopes for collection to make it look like more people were donating.

We haven't been in person since March, but the funds are still rolling out each month.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

These New England bishops think different?
I've noted before that Bishop of Hartford said you can stay home until Advent begins in late November.  They'll reassess at that time.

My wife felt bad, wrote a check and mailed in some collection envelopes. 

[The Lens]

I wish Listecki hadn't said exactly what he said bc I think it distorts how the Catholic Church in MKE has been a leader in safety.  They kept dozens of parishes closed in hot spot areas, they have transitioned to virtual well and they errorred on the side of caution with youth sports this fall (canceled). 

BUT I have a feeling a part of what he's saying is parish priests are seeing parishioners skip Mass but then head out to dinner, or to a movie etc, etc.  He needs message control and I think he should be saying, if you're comfortable in a 25% full restaurant on Saturday night, we can make you comfortable at Mass on Sunday.   

[ZiggysFryBoy]

I wish Listecki hadn't said exactly what he said bc I think it distorts how the Catholic Church in MKE has been a leader in safety.  They kept dozens of parishes closed in hot spot areas, they have transitioned to virtual well and they errorred on the side of caution with youth sports this fall (canceled). 

BUT I have a feeling a part of what he's saying is parish priests are seeing parishioners skip Mass but then head out to dinner, or to a movie etc, etc.  He needs message control and I think he should be saying, if you're comfortable in a 25% full restaurant on Saturday night, we can make you comfortable at Mass on Sunday.

Plus, a "grave sin" will make a lot of the old folks feel like they have to go to church.  Technically that's a big deal.

[tower912]

Local bishop gave dispensation through the end of October.    My wife and I set up direct deposit as soon as everything shut down.    We have been to in-person mass 4 times.   

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Plus, a "grave sin" will make a lot of the old folks feel like they have to go to church.  Technically that's a big deal.

That is the part that surprised me when I read it above.  That means something to a lot of people - to the extent that they would put their own comfort, safety, etc second.

[cheebs09]

My question is what he changed in the last two months to make this decision? I get that the churches have better processes in place, but a lot of that is predicated on limited capacity.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

My question is what he changed in the last two months to make this decision? I get that the churches have better processes in place, but a lot of that is predicated on limited capacity.

Our church, one of the largest in Madison, has an official capacity of around 1200 people.

I've been ushering for years, even at 9 am Easter, the highest I've seen is in the 900 souls range.  Even half, at 600, would be an average summer 9am Mass.

[Warriors4ever]

I’ve been doing hospitality at Old St Pat’s in the west Loop  since the rebirth in the 1980’s.  We have the opposite problem. And I suspect that if we simply opened up with no restrictions it would be a disaster. Though I would not be there to see.
I pretty much stopped listening to bishops a long time ago.

[MU82]

Interesting view from Appleton:

https://apnews.com/953f86e60c1420b2ebc7635c0823baaa?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=AP%20Morning%20Wire&utm_term=Morning%20Wire%20Subscribers

APPLETON, Wis. (AP) — Nothing can shake Scott Rice’s faith that President Donald Trump will save the U.S. economy — not seeing businesses close or friends furloughed, not even his own hellish bout with the novel coronavirus.

Rice reveres the president the way Wisconsin loves the Green Bay Packers. He has painted “T-R-U-M-P” on his lawn, spelled it out with Christmas lights on his roof and painted it on his steel-toed shoes.

He was also a virus skeptic, believing it was a hoax meant to hurt Trump and the economy. But then the disease seeped into the paper mill where he works, and he was stricken, suddenly losing his appetite, even for his favorite Taco Bell. He lay in bed, feverish, drenched in sweat. Two air-conditioner units didn’t cool him. His body seemed at war with itself.

After 16 days at home, Rice told his co-workers that the disease was scary and real. But Trump held onto his vote for one reason: The stock market was climbing.

“The 401(k)s, just the economy,” Rice said. “He got jobs going. Just accumulated a lot of jobs, being a businessman.”

Rice’s belief represents the foundation of Trump’s hopes — that Americans believe the economy is strong enough to deliver him a second term.

But in Appleton, a predominately white city of 75,000 people along the Fox River, the health of the economy isn’t judged on jobs numbers, personal bank accounts or union contracts. Instead, it’s viewed through partisan lenses — filtered through the facts voters want to see and hear, and those they don’t.

By almost any measure, Trump’s promises of an economic revival in places like Appleton have gone unfulfilled. The area has lost about 8,000 jobs since he was elected.

Even before the pandemic, Wisconsin’s economy was fragile, as job losses began in August 2019 and a recovery in hiring had just begun when the virus struck. The state that is vital for Trump’s victory had more jobs a decade ago when the country was still ailing from the Great Recession than it did in July.

While supporters like Rice are immovable, others have had enough. President Barack Obama won here in 2012, but voters flipped to Trump four years later, and Trump cannot afford much erosion in a state that he won by only 22,000 votes out of more than 2.8 million.

Democratic candidate Joe Biden holds a slight lead over Trump in the latest Marquette Law School poll of Wisconsin voters. Trump’s disapproval rating has risen to 54% from 49% at the start the year. But 52% of Wisconsin voters applaud Trump on the economy, while 56% dislike his handling of the pandemic that pulled the nation into recession.

Even Rice concedes that the economy is not just an argument for Trump — it’s also an argument against him. His 20-year-old daughter, Cassidy, tells him so. She is studying public health at George Washington University and will cast her first presidential vote for Biden.

“The fact that there was a pandemic and the fact that it had those consequences on the economy should be an eye opener, like, hey, maybe we’re not doing this correctly,” she said.

[Warriors4ever]

And the little children shall lead us....

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Interesting view from Appleton:

https://apnews.com/953f86e60c1420b2ebc7635c0823baaa?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=AP%20Morning%20Wire&utm_term=Morning%20Wire%20Subscribers

APPLETON, Wis. (AP) — Nothing can shake Scott Rice’s faith that President Donald Trump will save the U.S. economy — not seeing businesses close or friends furloughed, not even his own hellish bout with the novel coronavirus.

Rice reveres the president the way Wisconsin loves the Green Bay Packers. He has painted “T-R-U-M-P” on his lawn, spelled it out with Christmas lights on his roof and painted it on his steel-toed shoes.

He was also a virus skeptic, believing it was a hoax meant to hurt Trump and the economy. But then the disease seeped into the paper mill where he works, and he was stricken, suddenly losing his appetite, even for his favorite Taco Bell. He lay in bed, feverish, drenched in sweat. Two air-conditioner units didn’t cool him. His body seemed at war with itself.

After 16 days at home, Rice told his co-workers that the disease was scary and real. But Trump held onto his vote for one reason: The stock market was climbing.

“The 401(k)s, just the economy,” Rice said. “He got jobs going. Just accumulated a lot of jobs, being a businessman.”

Rice’s belief represents the foundation of Trump’s hopes — that Americans believe the economy is strong enough to deliver him a second term.

But in Appleton, a predominately white city of 75,000 people along the Fox River, the health of the economy isn’t judged on jobs numbers, personal bank accounts or union contracts. Instead, it’s viewed through partisan lenses — filtered through the facts voters want to see and hear, and those they don’t.

By almost any measure, Trump’s promises of an economic revival in places like Appleton have gone unfulfilled. The area has lost about 8,000 jobs since he was elected.

Even before the pandemic, Wisconsin’s economy was fragile, as job losses began in August 2019 and a recovery in hiring had just begun when the virus struck. The state that is vital for Trump’s victory had more jobs a decade ago when the country was still ailing from the Great Recession than it did in July.

While supporters like Rice are immovable, others have had enough. President Barack Obama won here in 2012, but voters flipped to Trump four years later, and Trump cannot afford much erosion in a state that he won by only 22,000 votes out of more than 2.8 million.

Democratic candidate Joe Biden holds a slight lead over Trump in the latest Marquette Law School poll of Wisconsin voters. Trump’s disapproval rating has risen to 54% from 49% at the start the year. But 52% of Wisconsin voters applaud Trump on the economy, while 56% dislike his handling of the pandemic that pulled the nation into recession.

Even Rice concedes that the economy is not just an argument for Trump — it’s also an argument against him. His 20-year-old daughter, Cassidy, tells him so. She is studying public health at George Washington University and will cast her first presidential vote for Biden.

“The fact that there was a pandemic and the fact that it had those consequences on the economy should be an eye opener, like, hey, maybe we’re not doing this correctly,” she said.

What's interesting to read about this is that my company has a sister plant in Appleton.  They need more employees and we've heard for the last two years how they have a terrible time getting new employees because "the jobless rate is too low" and "no one wants to do factory work anymore" despite offering $26/hr starting rate to run machines. 

Our Appleton plant is doing very well business-wise for a perverse reason.  That's another story in itself.

[Skatastrophy]

> “The 401(k)s, just the economy,” Rice said. “He got jobs going. Just accumulated a lot of jobs, being a businessman.”

I'm surprised how many people conflate the market with the economy, including the current president.

[jesmu84]

Our economy is in shambles.

The stock market is not the economy. But many middle-aged folks are seeing more money in their retirement accounts (tied to stock performance) than they ever have. I can't say I blame them for wanting that to continue.

I'm no economist. But how long can the stock market continue to climb? How much of it is being propped up artificially? How much is short-term gain that will result in long-term disastrous results (likely affecting those middle-aged folks' kid/grandkids)?

[Hards Alumni]

Our economy is in shambles.

The stock market is not the economy. But many middle-aged folks are seeing more money in their retirement accounts (tied to stock performance) than they ever have. I can't say I blame them for wanting that to continue.

I'm no economist. But how long can the stock market continue to climb? How much of it is being propped up artificially? How much is short-term gain that will result in long-term disastrous results (likely affecting those middle-aged folks' kid/grandkids)?

Shambles?  Not yet, but soon.

[4everwarriors]

Mite bee on Nov. 4, aina?

[Hards Alumni]

Mite bee on Nov. 4, aina?

Depends on who wins, and what the narrative becomes, aina?

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

The election will only have a short-term impact on the stock market and the economy.  And really I don't know in what way.

[Hards Alumni]

Another not so good day for Wisconsin's numbers.

[MUfan12]

Another not so good day for Wisconsin's numbers.

#3 on here is telling- https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/23/upshot/five-ways-to-monitor-coronavirus-outbreak-us.html

LaCrosse, Whitewater, Oshkosh, Stevens Point, Appleton, Platteville, Madison, Green Bay all in the top 20.

I'm completely content placing all the blame on the UW system (and Lawrence).

[Hards Alumni]

#3 on here is telling- https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/23/upshot/five-ways-to-monitor-coronavirus-outbreak-us.html

LaCrosse, Whitewater, Oshkosh, Stevens Point, Appleton, Platteville, Madison, Green Bay all in the top 20.

I'm completely content placing all the blame on the UW system (and Lawrence).

Sign me up.

[tower912]

College campuses are driving new case numbers right now.