Wisconsin

[ZiggysFryBoy]

I get the feeling you'd be calling it comprehensive if this was Waukesha county.

Wrong. 

[mu_hilltopper]

Well, there you go people.  You're on your own. 

https://madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/evers-administration-wont-pursue-new-covid-19-restrictions-amid-impasse-with-gop/article_86186768-a9a4-5ff2-947c-db0caeaf9767.html

I don't understand the "rule making" process here.  I would have imagined the rule would be written and either accepted, re-written, or rejected by the legislature, like any legislation.

Our state and the country has taken a breathtaking fall from civility and common values and purpose.

[jficke13]

Well, there you go people.  You're on your own. 

https://madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/evers-administration-wont-pursue-new-covid-19-restrictions-amid-impasse-with-gop/article_86186768-a9a4-5ff2-947c-db0caeaf9767.html

I don't understand the "rule making" process here.  I would have imagined the rule would be written and either accepted, re-written, or rejected by the legislature, like any legislation.

Our state and the country has taken a breathtaking fall from civility and common values and purpose.

It's kind of interesting in a "this would be more interesting if the world weren't on fire" kind of way to watch the political process evolve so that one side plays by purely Machiavellian game theory rules, and the other just... doesn't. I guess its what would happen if the people in the Prisoner's Dilemma have played the game 1000 times, each time making the same decisions, and only one of the two sides electing to maximize their expected outcome.

Back in Roman times there was a shared set of norms and customs, "mos maiorum," that governed how people interacted with the state, with the powers of the offices they held, with each other, etc. This isn't to say that mos maiorum dictated that people interact selflessly with the state or their powers (plenty, plenty of corruption was expected and even tolerated), but to oversimplify: In order to play the game, you had to abide by the norms of mos maiorum... until the generations that preceded Julius Ceasar's generation. Then a couple of players realized that they could simply... not play by the same rules. For example, one elected office had a universal veto, so they held the government hostage by exercising that veto over everything and fought mob battles in the streets to ensure they held onto that veto. The shared rules that knit the society together started to fray, and a couple generations later were gone entirely.

The problem with looking at Wisconsin's governance is one where we're viewing it through the lens of our own mos maiorum. When we "why aren't they doing what we expect a legislature to do?" or "why is the supreme court as nakedly political as it is?" we're testing the behavior of some of the players of a game who've observed that violating the the mos maiorum rules of the game have no consequence against the expectation that they do abide by those rules.

[Uncle Rico]

Well, there you go people.  You're on your own. 

https://madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/evers-administration-wont-pursue-new-covid-19-restrictions-amid-impasse-with-gop/article_86186768-a9a4-5ff2-947c-db0caeaf9767.html

I don't understand the "rule making" process here.  I would have imagined the rule would be written and either accepted, re-written, or rejected by the legislature, like any legislation.

Our state and the country has taken a breathtaking fall from civility and common values and purpose.

The abject failure of Wisconsin leadership on both sides of the aisle is appalling.  The election of 2010 still resonates a decade later and the citizens of Wisconsin are the ones that pay the price.  We’re a generation away from any sense of political normalcy in this once great state. 

[Jockey]

Well, there you go people.  You're on your own. 

https://madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/evers-administration-wont-pursue-new-covid-19-restrictions-amid-impasse-with-gop/article_86186768-a9a4-5ff2-947c-db0caeaf9767.html

I don't understand the "rule making" process here.  I would have imagined the rule would be written and either accepted, re-written, or rejected by the legislature, like any legislation.

Our state and the country has taken a breathtaking fall from civility and common values and purpose.

Didn't Evers already make a rule for the state? Like Evers or not, it is one side only that has declared that there will be no rules. We know that if he tries anything else, Vos and Fitgerald will just go to the court and have it overturned.

With a minority of votes statewide, R's will continue to have veto-proof control of the legislature. There will be no change at any time in the foreseeable future due to extreme gerrymandering.

[Jockey]

The abject failure of Wisconsin leadership on both sides of the aisle is appalling.  The election of 2010 still resonates a decade later and the citizens of Wisconsin are the ones that pay the price.  We’re a generation away from any sense of political normalcy in this once great state.

Both sider-ism at its finest.

One side had a plan. The other side had none and destroyed the first plan with nothing to replace it. Does that make them equal in your eyes?

[injuryBug]

Didn't Evers already make a rule for the state? Like Evers or not, it is one side only that has declared that there will be no rules. We know that if he tries anything else, Vos and Fitgerald will just go to the court and have it overturned.

With a minority of votes statewide, R's will continue to have veto-proof control of the legislature. There will be no change at any time in the foreseeable future due to extreme gerrymandering.

 i really hate politics and the games.  So much easier when i was younger and had no clue what was going on except that Nancy told me to Just Say No to drugs

[Uncle Rico]

Both sider-ism at its finest.

One side had a plan. The other side had none and destroyed the first plan with nothing to replace it. Does that make them equal in your eyes?

In this instance, I deplore the republican actions of the past 90 days.  I deplored the democratic officials that ran to Illinois after Walker got elected.  It set the precedent that continues today in its pettiness

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Per the DHS website, there are 128 covid patients in the ICU statewide.  380 total hospitalizations. 

[TSmith34, Inc.]

The problem with looking at Wisconsin's governance is one where we're viewing it through the lens of our own mos maiorum. When we "why aren't they doing what we expect a legislature to do?" or "why is the supreme court as nakedly political as it is?" we're testing the behavior of some of the players of a game who've observed that violating the the mos maiorum rules of the game have no consequence against the expectation that they do abide by those rules.

Rather like firing every single person that may have oversight to you because you know the only body that can hold you accountable refuses to do so?

[Hards Alumni]

Per the DHS website, there are 128 covid patients in the ICU statewide.  380 total hospitalizations.

Great news.  There are tentative plans to resume a lot of our business on 6/1.  Of course, there are new regulations, and requirements to keep our clients safe... but no way to compensate us for the increase in cost to us.  I have sincere doubts about how our company moves forward in any way that we did prior to 3/17.  Our client's agencies want to know our plan, but there is no good way to tell them that things can't just go back to normal, and we won't be able to serve everyone we used to... and those who we will now serve will see their rates explode in cost to compensate.  A lot of eyes are going to be opened in the next couple of weeks.

[Jockey]

In this instance, I deplore the republican actions of the past 90 days.  I deplored the democratic officials that ran to Illinois after Walker got elected.  It set the precedent that continues today in its pettiness

Thanks, Rico. Very fair points.

[mu_hilltopper]

To wit,

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/19/wisconsin-coronavirus-supreme-court-failed-state

[#UnleashSean]

i really hate politics and the games.  So much easier when i was younger and had no clue what was going on except that Nancy told me to Just Say No to drugs

But even that was a politically charged policy that has had a huge negative effect.

[mu03eng]

Couple of caveats and priors to admit to before I ask my question:
-I wish we hadn't crashed out of the stay at home order, I wish there had been a ramp down
-I'm libertarian at my core, my governing philosophy is let everyone maximize their utility/happiness and government only need to step in when those maximization curves conflict/interfere.
-If there is conflict I want it resolved at the lowest/most efficent form of government
-Covid risk is real, we needed to shut down but we've now bought ourselves some time and space to figure out how to operate more openly in a new normal

So the crash down aside, hell let's pretend we're at May 26th and we have an ordered ramp down........why is it an inherently bad thing that each community, whether city or county, is determining their own approach? Dane County has determined, based on its metrics that Ziggy shared, that they are going to be closed down for a while....if that's what's best for that county so be it. If Waukesha County decides to open up with some restrictions, why is that a bad thing? If Walworth County throws the doors open and it's based on its situation how is that any of our business per se?

Bottom line, we all have our various risk tolerances, why should we centralize that for the whole state at the lowest common denominator at this point in the pandemic?

[tower912]

Because one county's laissez faire approach to COVID can have negative consequences for surrounding counties.

[mu_hilltopper]

I'd agree .. that a regional approach is the right one.  I'd divide the state into regions .. somewhere between 5-10, but fewer = better.

And I'd have the county health departments inside the region agree to and submit plans to the state health department (for approval) // or I'd have the state health dept come up with X "stages" of openness that the regions can choose from.

Seems .. reasonable, flexible. 


Why can't the parties agree to that?  Legit question.

[tower912]

Illinois and Michigan are doing something like this.   

[mu03eng]

Because one county's laissez faire approach to COVID can have negative consequences for surrounding counties.

Replace county with state, would the same not be true? Should all of the states adhere to the same standards that California or New York?

Not trying to be contrarian, looking for a reasonable approach to take.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I like a regional approach, but counties like Waukesha and Milwaukee are in the same region.  We aren't taking a regional approach based on sound public health.  We are taking a haphazard one based on the politics of the counties / municipalities.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Replace county with state, would the same not be true? Should all of the states adhere to the same standards that California or New York?

Not trying to be contrarian, looking for a reasonable approach to take.

Because people travel between cities and counties much more often than they do between states.

[mu03eng]

I'd agree .. that a regional approach is the right one.  I'd divide the state into regions .. somewhere between 5-10, but fewer = better.

And I'd have the county health departments inside the region agree to and submit plans to the state health department // or I'd have the state health dept come up with X "stages" of openness that the regions can choose from.

Seems .. reasonable.

It sure does

[mu03eng]

Because people travel between cities and counties much more often than they do between states.

Except for the borders of course

[Galway Eagle]

Replace county with state, would the same not be true? Should all of the states adhere to the same standards that California or New York?

Not trying to be contrarian, looking for a reasonable approach to take.

This Rebuttal would make more sense if Chicago was where Waukegan is and Milwaukee where Kenosha is. But nobody from Chicago is about to Uber to Kenosha or Lake Geneva to finally get a night out on the town with friends. They will however Uber to Naperville or Schaumburg to get a night on the town when those areas are open.

[Galway Eagle]

Except for the borders of course

Which are not densely populated between WI IL MI or MN. An example of Chicago to Gary could work or NYC to CT and NJ.