Hall of fame voting

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

First I want to say congrats to Glavine, Thomas and Maddux for making the hall. Growing up Frank Thomas was far and away my favorite player and probably the reason im a Sox fan despite growing up on the north side of the city. That being said I hate the way MLB voters work. There is no reason Maddux should not have been a unanimous vote. Also I may be in the minority but I think Bonds should undoubtedly be in the hall. Even if he did take steroids it is damn near impossible to see a 90 mph fastball let alone hit one. Plus there were way more pitchers juiced up then hitters. I just feel like guys like Rose and Bonds should be in the Hall because even before Bonds ballooned he was still one of the best baseball players of his time.

[keefe]

There is no reason Maddux should not have been a unanimous vote.

Maddux is friends with Tom Crean. There are consequences in life for bad headwork.

[tower912]

Acknowledging my Tiger bias, but Jack Morris and Alan Trammel should be in. 

[keefe]

Acknowledging my Tiger bias, but Jack Morris and Alan Trammel should be in. 

No question. The AL East back then was fearsome and the Tigers were a major factor. And Ernie Harwell (and Bob Ufer) could call a game.

[WI inferiority Complexes]

There is no reason Maddux should not have been a unanimous vote.

This could be a problem with the system.  Voters are only able to choose 10 inductees.  It's possible that some voters, (knowing Maddux was in, regardless), didn't bother voting for Maddux and instead used their votes on borderline players like Trammell, Raines, Jack Morris, etc.

[Lennys Tap]

Acknowledging my Tiger bias, but Jack Morris and Alan Trammel should be in. 

Morris was as great pitcher, the bigger the stage the better. He gets my vote, no question. Not as sure about Trammel.

[keefe]

Morris was as great pitcher, the bigger the stage the better. He gets my vote, no question. Not as sure about Trammel.

Trammel and Whitaker were awesome together. The NL East had strength up the middle back then:


NYY:  Munson, Randolph, BFD, Rivers

Mil: Simba, Molitor, Yount, Thomas

Det: Parrish, Whitaker, Trammel, Leflore

Bal: Dempsey, Dauer, Belanger, Bumbry

Bos: Pudge, Remy, Burleson, Lynn

[MerrittsMustache]

Acknowledging my Tiger bias, but Jack Morris and Alan Trammel should be in.  

The baseball HOF has become a joke. Gary Carter? Jim Rice? Bert Blyleven? Those guys are on the same level as Yogi Berra, Hank Aaron and Warren Spahn? Really?! Andre Dawson is my all-time favorite baseball player but even I can admit that he wasn't a HOFer.

I liked Morris and Trammel a lot but they'd have no business being in the HOF. They were very good players but let's not kid ourselves. Morris' career was most statistically significant to Dennis Martinez and El Presidente isn't going into the HOF any time soon. Trammell played 20 years and made 6 All-Star teams, which means for 70% of his career, he wasn't one of the 2-3 best players at his position in his league, yet he should be considered an all-time great? Not a chance.

[🏀]

The HOF needs to be blown up and started from scratch. There's so much bad in there it's ridiculous.

[tower912]

Interestingly, the same guys who say that Trout is better than Cabrera say that Trammel was the third best shortstop of his era, behind Ripken and the Wizard.   Better hitter than the Wizard, better glove than Ripken.   His WAR is off the charts.   And now, I officially feel unclean, because sabermetrics that I loathe make my point.

[brandx]

The HOF needs to be blown up and started from scratch. There's so much bad in there it's ridiculous.

It's kind of become the 'Hall of Very-good'

[WI inferiority Complexes]

The HOF needs to be blown up and started from scratch. There's so much bad in there it's ridiculous.

There are only 211 members in the HOF elected as players.  Even if you disagree with recent picks--given that less than 1.1% of players are in-- I'm not sure the Hall has reached "ridiculous" yet.

[MerrittsMustache]

Interestingly, the same guys who say that Trout is better than Cabrera say that Trammel was the third best shortstop of his era, behind Ripken and the Wizard.   Better hitter than the Wizard, better glove than Ripken.   His WAR is off the charts.   And now, I officially feel unclean, because sabermetrics that I loathe make my point.

He probably was the third-best of his era. However, who were the other SS of that era? Barry Larkin (another guy who shouldn't be in the HOF), Shawon Dunston, Gary Templeton, Tony Fernandez. Not exactly a who's who of all-time greats at the position...though it was fun for me to rack my brain for 80s shortstops  

Is career WAR calculated by adding up yearly WAR? I thought I heard that but, if that's true, it can be a very misleading statistic considering it would basically reward quantity over quality (i.e. 20 solid years > 12 great years).

[WI inferiority Complexes]

He probably was the third-best of his era. However, who were the other SS of that era? Barry Larkin (another guy who shouldn't be in the HOF), Shawon Dunston, Gary Templeton, Tony Fernandez. Not exactly a who's who of all-time greats at the position...though it was fun for me to rack my brain for 80s shortstops  

Robin Yount was a very good SS for the first half of the 80's.

[brandx]

Robin Yount was a very good SS for the first half of the 80's.

Downplaying it a bit, huh? He was better than very good as one of his MVPs was as a SS.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

how bout the Miami writer who lost his vote b/c he let deadspin fans choose his ballot?

[🏀]

There are only 211 members in the HOF elected as players.  Even if you disagree with recent picks--given that less than 1.1% of players are in-- I'm not sure the Hall has reached "ridiculous" yet.

Okay, only the veterans and old timers committees entries suck.

[WI inferiority Complexes]

Downplaying it a bit, huh? He was better than very good as one of his MVPs was as a SS.

Sorry. I meant he was orgasmic as a shortstop in the early 80's.  Better?

[keefe]

Downplaying it a bit, huh? He was better than very good as one of his MVPs was as a SS.

Someone argued that Yount was only good but got into the Hall because of longevity. Frankly, I think there is nothing wrong with being good for a long time but at the end of the day 3,000 hits gets you in. The beauty of baseball is the metrics. Ask how many career rushing yards does Emmitt Smith have and you get a blank look. But baseball numbers stick and fuel the imagination.

714, 56, 60/61*, 2130, 2362, 660, 262, 755, 130, 536, 511, 7, 363/63...

[WI inferiority Complexes]

at the end of the day 3,000 hits gets you in.

Craig Biggio is the only player with 3,000 that I would argue against.  (excluding Palmerio).

[keefe]

Craig Biggio is the only player with 3,000 that I would argue against.  (excluding Palmerio).

You don't think Biggio did candy, do you? I have always heard he was clean.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

how bout the Miami writer who lost his vote b/c he let deadspin fans choose his ballot?

Dan Le Batard. (has a really funny show on espn you should check out) People were giving him a lot of grief but his reasoning behind it made a lot of sense. He was also exposing the system, hopefully that will be a jump start to restructure it.

[MerrittsMustache]

You don't think Biggio did candy, do you? I have always heard he was clean.

He doesn't belong in because he was never among the best of the best in the game of baseball. He was a solid player for a long time, but that doesn't make him a HOFer.

If you want to get into the PED issue...he looked about finished but then set a career high in HR at age 37 and then again at age 38. Take that however you see fit.

[mu03eng]

Dan Le Batard. (has a really funny show on espn you should check out) People were giving him a lot of grief but his reasoning behind it made a lot of sense. He was also exposing the system, hopefully that will be a jump start to restructure it.

I think Le Batard is a blow hard antagonist...but in a good way, unlike Skip Bayless who just sucks at life.  I don't care for Le Batard's schtick but I do think he is general very correct in his opinions.  I thought he absolutely pointed out the hypocrisy that is HOF voting.

The biggest issue in the voting is the old boy network "making a stand" against PEDs.  Since baseball didn't bother to test until 2007 (NFL started in 1984 I think) there is no way to define the era's timeline.  I'm willing to bet there are a number of players that did PEDs in the Hall already, maybe not steroids but certain uppers or HGH or something.  If they feel strongly about this, then put something in the hall about the PED era and shut up about it.

[🏀]

He doesn't belong in because he was never among the best of the best in the game of baseball. He was a solid player for a long time, but that doesn't make him a HOFer.

If you want to get into the PED issue...he looked about finished but then set a career high in HR at age 37 and then again at age 38. Take that however you see fit.

Couldn't agree more with Biggio.

And he played with these freaks: