California to pass bill called "fair pay to play act"...to compensate players

[Cheeks]

Their rules were in place well before this bill was even a dream. All the schools in California and everywhere else knew that. I'm having a hard time understanding what you aren't getting here. No one, not even the NCAA is telling California, that college athletes can't make $$ off their likenesses. They are entitled to do that if they so choose. However, what the NCAA is SAYING is if they choose to do that, they aren't eligible to play college athletics and/or participate in post season play. It's two separate issues really. One is state law, one is a rule the organization has that you belong to. The bill they are passing says absolutely NOTHING about that they MUST be allowed to remain eligible to play in college or participate in postseason.

By enforcing their own rule(that again, all the members agreed to as a condition of membership), they aren't telling them they can't pay their players. Heck, they aren't even telling them they can't break away from the NCAA and form their own California league if they so choose, and they certainly aren't making this enforceable only to the state of California. It would apply to any state that passes such a law.

I mean, there's a state law in Wisconsin that you can't drink until you're 21..But if when your daughter turns say 17, and you decide it's okay for her to have a drink or two at home when you or your wife are there with her, there's not a damn thing anyone can do about it.

Our employers have to pay us for doing work for them, that's not only a State law, but a federal law..however, HOW our employer chooses to pay us(weekly, bi-weekly etc) is strictly up to them.

Exactly.  You want to go make money off YouTube, go do it.....like any other student does....their own platform, not using athletics as the platform.  You just don’t get to play anymore...that is a choice.  We all have choices.

When are Brew, Pakuni, Rico and others going to demand that every student gets free tutors, free air travel to locations around the country, free clothing, equipment, etc. 

[Uncle Rico]

Exactly.  You want to go make money off YouTube, go do it.....like any other student does....their own platform, not using athletics as the platform.  You just don’t get to play anymore...that is a choice.  We all have choices.

When are Brew, Pakuni, Rico and others going to demand that every student gets free tutors, free air travel to locations around the country, free clothing, equipment, etc.

When they start generating revenue commiserate with what major college athletics do

[Pakuni]

When are Brew, Pakuni, Rico and others going to demand that every student gets free tutors, free air travel to locations around the country, free clothing, equipment, etc.

None of these things are free. They cost money. And that money is generated via the labor of the players.

[muguru]

None of these things are free. They cost money. And that money is generated via the labor of the players.

So does tuition, the best housing on campus, access to things normal students don't have etc. Those are all GIVEN to the athletes, free of charge. Regular students don't get those things.

Does everyone realize that if this comes to pass, these athletes will have to pay taxes on any income they make?? So what happens if some of the top athletes like a star QB makes 50k or so a year off his likeness. You think he'll be able to afford to pay the taxes on that?? Most likely a booster or someone will offer to take care of that for him. Totally illegal. But that is what this is going to open the door for.

[Uncle Rico]

So does tuition, the best housing on campus, access to things normal students don't have etc. Those are all GIVEN to the athletes, free of charge. Regular students don't get those things.

Does everyone realize that if this comes to pass, these athletes will have to pay taxes on any income they make?? So what happens if some of the top athletes like a star QB makes 50k or so a year off his likeness. You think he'll be able to afford to pay the taxes on that?? Most likely a booster or someone will offer to take care of that for him. Totally illegal. But that is what this is going to open the door for.

Yes, that’s an excellent point.  That doesn’t happen at all, boosters paying kids or their families or handlers.

Some athletes also have great access to fellow students doing their classwork for them as well. 

Athletes also have access to a lot of places fellow students don’t have access to.  It’s a horrific world out there

[muguru]

Yes, that’s an excellent point.  That doesn’t happen at all, boosters paying kids or their families or handlers.

Some athletes also have great access to fellow students doing their classwork for them as well. 

Athletes also have access to a lot of places fellow students don’t have access to.  It’s a horrific world out there

I guess I'm curious as to why you are rooting for the demise of Marquette basketball?? Because this is EXACTLY what will happen if this becomes a universal thing.

[Pakuni]

So does tuition, the best housing on campus, access to things normal students don't have etc. Those are all GIVEN to the athletes, free of charge. Regular students don't get those things.

And the total value of all this remains well below the amount of revenue the players generate for the university.

Does everyone realize that if this comes to pass, these athletes will have to pay taxes on any income they make?? So what happens if some of the top athletes like a star QB makes 50k or so a year off his likeness. You think he'll be able to afford to pay the taxes on that??

Why wouldn't a player be able to afford the taxes?

[Its DJOver]

Things are usually more expensive black market

Can't that traditionally be linked to basic supply and demand.  Lower supply causes the demand to increase.  The supply of top tier basketball prospects is set to be consistent.  The demand could increase due to the knowledge that history/tradition/facilities/location/weather don't matter because it's just a straight auction.  I can only speculate, but I would say that whatever got funneled to Zion's family/handler is pennies compared to what could have happened if UCLA, Arizona, Texas, and Duke had just had a straight up bidding war.

[Uncle Rico]

I guess I'm curious as to why you are rooting for the demise of Marquette basketball?? Because this is EXACTLY what will happen if this becomes a universal thing.

The demise of Marquette basketball was widely predicted as they remained an independent.  They joined a league.  Their demise was predicted when they were in a mid-major league.  So on and so forth.  The Big East was doomed with no football.  I guess I have more faith in Marquette than you

[brewcity77]

Our employers have to pay us for doing work for them, that's not only a State law, but a federal law..however, HOW our employer chooses to pay us(weekly, bi-weekly etc) is strictly up to them.

No, it's not. They are subject to overtime laws. They are subject to federal or local minimum wages. They are subject to the Fair Labor Standards Act. They are subject to numerous laws that dictate how they must act. And like the California law, these didn't always exist, but companies had to obey those new laws once they took effect. Just like the NCAA will have to do with the California law.

There are some controls employers have, but those controls must still fall within the federal and local laws. Rules don't trump laws.

[bilsu]

The very first sentence of the NCAA's statement is a blatant lie.
I'm curious to hear their constitutional argument.

I would think the argument would be that college basketball is interstate commerce and States do not have the power to regulate interstate commerce.

[muguru]

No, it's not. They are subject to overtime laws. They are subject to federal or local minimum wages. They are subject to the Fair Labor Standards Act. They are subject to numerous laws that dictate how they must act. And like the California law, these didn't always exist, but companies had to obey those new laws once they took effect. Just like the NCAA will have to do with the California law.

There are some controls employers have, but those controls must still fall within the federal and local laws. Rules don't trump laws.

Why is it such a hard concept to understand for you Brew?? You seem to be an intelligent guy...whether California pays it's players or not, is 100% their prerogative, but it's completely separate from the NCAA then saying, okay you now are not allowed to compete in the postseason because you are violating OUR rules. They have every right to do that and every right to enforce it.

If you violate a work rule, even though you weren't breaking a law, you could be fired. That's their right, and we know the rules when we accept a job with them.

Kids are dismissed from programs for MANY reasons that don't involve breaking a law. Their rules, they can enforce them as they see fit.

I guess I want you to explain to me how if California passes this law that players can make money off their likenesses, that it then FORCES the NCAA to allow them to play in postseason and NOT make them ineligible. It can't.

[Uncle Rico]

Why is it such a hard concept to understand for you Brew?? You seem to be an intelligent guy...whether California pays it's players or not, is 100% their prerogative, but it's completely separate from the NCAA then saying, okay you now are not allowed to compete in the postseason because you are violating OUR rules. They have every right to do that and every right to enforce it.

If you violate a work rule, even though you weren't breaking a law, you could be fired. That's their right, and we know the rules when we accept a job with them.

Kids are dismissed from programs for MANY reasons that don't involve breaking a law. Their rules, they can enforce them as they see fit.

I guess I want you to explain to me how if California passes this law that players can make money off their likenesses, that it then FORCES the NCAA to allow them to play in postseason and NOT make them ineligible. It can't.

Because the NCAA will be taken to court over it and other states will pass similar legislation in the meantime.  As wild as it sounds, the NCAA could come up with a compromise position but then they’d lose money and control and that’s all they care about

[muguru]

The demise of Marquette basketball was widely predicted as they remained an independent.  They joined a league.  Their demise was predicted when they were in a mid-major league.  So on and so forth.  The Big East was doomed with no football.  I guess I have more faith in Marquette than you

You're talking about completely different things...switching conferences etc, is TOTALLY different then a world where players are getting paid. I mean, not saying it would happen, but what if Marquette, or any other University just says, if this is the way it's going to be, we just will drop our basketball program?? They would have every right to do so.

[muguru]

Because the NCAA will be taken to court over it and other states will pass similar legislation in the meantime.  As wild as it sounds, the NCAA could come up with a compromise position but then they’d lose money and control and that’s all they care about

And what would the argument be from states that the NCAA MUST allow them to pay their players AND still be eligible for postseason play??

How did it go when college players tried to unionize?? They were shot down. they couldn't FORCE the NCAA to let them be a union. Think the NCAA does have some power, huh??

[Uncle Rico]

You're talking about completely different things...switching conferences etc, is TOTALLY different then a world where players are getting paid. I mean, not saying it would happen, but what if Marquette, or any other University just says, if this is the way it's going to be, we just will drop our basketball program?? They would have every right to do so.

The university isn’t paying the players

[brewcity77]

The universities aren't paying the players, and it would be a discrimination lawsuit based on the zip code. But that's most likely beside the point because the NCAA will undoubtedly cave long before it gets that far.

[muguru]

The university isn’t paying the players

As of now no, but this will eventually lead to that.

[brewcity77]

People opposing this, it's about time to accept this is coming. This passed unanimously in California. It will pass in other states and it will do so with broad bipartisan support because there's no defense against it. And if the NCAA pulls off an interstate commerce defense, which seems flimsy at best, it will pass through the federal government. It's already been discussed as a primary topic for 2020.

In the Parrish/Norlander poll on CBS Sports, 77% of coaches support this. The people who are the public face of this sport know what's right and know what direction this is going.

Likeness earning for student athletes is coming. It's not a question of if, it's when. This is just the next obvious step in a process that started with O'Bannon and will, unquestionably, end with players being able to earn money from their likeness. Better to start accepting that obvious reality now.

[muguru]

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-09-11/california-college-athletes-endorsements-bill

The Pac-12 Conference referred to its previous statement on the bill that asked the Legislature to delay taking action until an NCAA working group finished studying the issue this fall.

During a committee hearing earlier this year, Long Beach State athletic director Andy Fee warned of “many potential and unintended consequences” if the bill becomes law.

“I fear the distinct possibility of a scenario where California schools could be expelled for willful breaking of NCAA rules,” Fee said. “Should California schools be expelled, the very student-athletes the bill is intended to assist would be adversely affected.”

[Uncle Rico]

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-09-11/california-college-athletes-endorsements-bill

The Pac-12 Conference referred to its previous statement on the bill that asked the Legislature to delay taking action until an NCAA working group finished studying the issue this fall.

During a committee hearing earlier this year, Long Beach State athletic director Andy Fee warned of “many potential and unintended consequences” if the bill becomes law.

“I fear the distinct possibility of a scenario where California schools could be expelled for willful breaking of NCAA rules,” Fee said. “Should California schools be expelled, the very student-athletes the bill is intended to assist would be adversely affected.”

Bwahahahahahahahahaha *catches breath* bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha /farts three times

[muguru]

Bwahahahahahahahahaha *catches breath* bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha /farts three times

Again, you are being a COMPLETE tool about this..Totally. I guess you want college athletics to become pro sports. Bring on free agency, and trades, and hold outs etc! Sounds great!

[brewcity77]

Bwahahahahahahahahaha *catches breath* bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha /farts three times

+1

This is going to lead to the end of collegiate sports the same way free agency destroyed baseball, as hilltopper noted. I miss baseball, even though it ended a couple years before I was born. Too bad Cubs fans never got to see their team win a World Series.

[cheebs09]

Again, you are being a COMPLETE tool about this..Totally. I guess you want college athletics to become pro sports. Bring on free agency, and trades, and hold outs etc! Sounds great!

I think it’s closer to professional sports than most people want to admit. This pure idea of a bunch of our fellow students playing for the love of their school went away awhile ago. It’s a business now.

[bilsu]

The trouble with this law as I see it is that it will promote more inequality. Only the very top players will be making money on this. The average player might get some money here or there, but it is not going to benefit them very much. Even in pro sports the dollars mostly go to players who do not need it. How, many Packers besides Rogers do you see in commercials?