Izzo-ver

[21Jumpstreet]

Never easy when it ends, long, quiet car ride back to MKE. I’m pretty disappointed only because I thought we lost the game because of our mentality. Tyler was off mentally since Vermont, Shaka was not as hype and engaged when we were struggling, and Kam was arguing with the refs. It just didn’t feel like it felt all year. It was so uncharacteristic and so noticeable.

Massive props to Oso for staying positive and trying to keep the boys chins up. Massive props to OMax for working his ass off. Massive props to the boys for fighting all year. This one stings a lot probably because the boys were so good and gave me hope. That hope hasn’t gone away and neither has the sting.

[CTWarrior]

+1

Uncharacteristic sloppiness cost us.

Disagree 100%.  They packed it in, took away the two man game of Kolek/Oso, and forced us to drive into crowds.

Plus, at crunch time, one team had poise and worked for the good shot, while the other chucked up early threes and turned the ball over.  That's coaching.

[tower912]

Disagree 100%.  They packed it in, took away the two man game of Kolek/Oso, and forced us to drive into crowds.

Exactly.  9 two point FG, 11 threes.   MSU was all about taking away the drive and dish in the paint. 

[Elonsmusk]

Disagree 100%.  They packed it in, took away the two man game of Kolek/Oso, and forced us to drive into crowds.

Plus, at crunch time, one team had poise and worked for the good shot, while the other chucked up early threes and turned the ball over.  That's coaching.

So if they packed it in and took away the two man game and dribble drive game, why do you feel “chucking up early threes” was poor decision-making?

Honestly, MSU didn’t work for good shots down the stretch, our D forced them into one on one iso ball with the shot clock under 8 seconds. Hogg Ard I’d a load. Walker played really well. They hit some tough midrange shots that were purely 1-on-1, not a function of running some amazing offensive set.

We played terribly yesterday. An outlier game with the turnover differential being -13, we had a season high and forced a season low. A majority of our turnovers were unforced.

It’s easy to say it was “coaching,” but there’s still only so much a coach can do when your players are just playing so far out of sorts as compared to their norms.

[mu_hilltopper]

Exactly.  9 two point FG, 11 threes.   MSU was all about taking away the drive and dish in the paint. 

Exactly.  Izzo was masterful in creating this defense, and try as Tyler, Oso, and Shaka could, it was kryptonite without amazing 3 point shooting to make Izzo change that D.

MSU wins 8 of 10 with that.

[Elonsmusk]

Exactly.  Izzo was masterful in creating this defense, and try as Tyler, Oso, and Shaka could, it was kryptonite without amazing 3 point shooting.

MSU wins 8 of 10 with that.

Except we are the Number 1 2 pt FG% shooting team in D1. Over 60%. Yesterday?  Nope. Compound that by 16 turnovers, most of which were unforced, that’s roughly 10 less FG attempts for us than usual and there you have the loss.

You’re welcome to credit Izzo, but then you really ought to credit Shaka for “forcing” MSU into 2 for 16 shoring from 3, as they are as I recall the Number 3 team in the country on 3pt shooting %.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Exactly.  Izzo was masterful in creating this defense, and try as Tyler, Oso, and Shaka could, it was kryptonite without amazing 3 point shooting to make Izzo change that D.

MSU wins 8 of 10 with that.

You continuing to state this doesn’t make it less ridiculous.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Exactly.  Izzo was masterful in creating this defense, and try as Tyler, Oso, and Shaka could, it was kryptonite without amazing 3 point shooting to make Izzo change that D.

MSU wins 8 of 10 with that.

I don't see what was so masterful about it.

Oso 4-6 with 10 points and 4 assists, pretty standard game
OMax 5-11 including a good for him 3-7 from 3
Kam with 14 points on 4-9 from deep (which was 4-7 before he had to chuck a couple in the last minute)
Stevie with a standard 6 points on meh shooting.

The difference was 12(!) turns from Kolek, Jop, and Ross against 5 assists, plus what were effectively 2 more live ball turns when Kolek got blocked twice in crunch time.

I mean, was the masterful defense just focused on those three guys?

[tower912]

Cut off the head....

[Uncle Rico]

Cut off the head....

Congrats to Tom Izzo for being the first coach to do this. 

[panda]

Cut off the head....

Kolek played very poorly. He was pressing and found himself into a bunch of unforced turnovers. There is absolutely nothing “masterful” about that.

[tower912]

Congrats to Tom Izzo for being the first coach to do this.

Yes, he was able to cut off the head of the snake.     I would put this somewhere around 80% MSU defense, 20% self inflicted.   I know that this is not the zeitgeist of the board, but I don't care.    That is what I saw.   

   https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore/_/gameId/401522175

I have a box score that says 11 assists, 16 turnovers and 9-25 from 2.   MSU did that to MU.   

[mileskishnish72]

TKO is the straw that stirs the drink. Don't know for sure what the thumb issue was, but it got into his head.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Cut off the head....

Then I guess the Vermont coach also had a masterful plan

[tower912]

He had a plan but not the horses.   MSU had the plan and the horses.

[CTWarrior]

So if they packed it in and took away the two man game and dribble drive game, why do you feel “chucking up early threes” was poor decision-making?

Because we didn't take good threes early.  We took threes we could always get.  We didn't move the ball around the perimter and look for driving lanes to kick to the three from by players beside Kolek.

As for Izzo, when Kolek drove, they had a good defender on him and the balance of team was cognizant of taking away his preferred passing lanes and were diligent about it 90% of the time.  It was a very well-designed defense that prevented us from doing what we do best, executed well by his players.  If you can't see that is good coaching, I don't know what to tell you.

Meanwhile, they missed a bunch of wide open threes that I would not necessarily credit to our defense.  I thought we were thoroughly outcoached.  No shame in that, Izzo is pretty good at this.

[DoctorV]

Never easy when it ends, long, quiet car ride back to MKE. I’m pretty disappointed only because I thought we lost the game because of our mentality. Tyler was off mentally since Vermont, Shaka was not as hype and engaged when we were struggling, and Kam was arguing with the refs. It just didn’t feel like it felt all year. It was so uncharacteristic and so noticeable.

Massive props to Oso for staying positive and trying to keep the boys chins up. Massive props to OMax for working his ass off. Massive props to the boys for fighting all year. This one stings a lot probably because the boys were so good and gave me hope. That hope hasn’t gone away and neither has the sting.

This^^^^

There was a palpable feel in both games in Columbus that wasn’t there earlier in the season.

While Tyler was the most obvious, you could really tell that the team wasn’t as “together” and as “comfortable” as it had been all season. The joy of their game and the calming influence didn’t seem to be there.
There were plenty of examples while watching live, but the short tempers with the refs and Shakas upset towards his guys really stood out.

Must have been the magnitude of the moment.
I completely agree with the point above that Omax and especially Oso really stood out in a positive light, and that was great to see.

The entire game yesterday I just waited for TyKo to make one “wow” play, one really good pass to get someone an easy bucket. The turnovers sucked, but I thought if he just made one beautiful play that it would get both him and the team going.
Then he made an amazing pass to Oso for an and one and the Marquette fans exploded.
Didn’t have the effect I had hoped it would unfortunately.

Either way, whether we like it or not, Coach Shaka and his March struggles since VCU is unfortunately now a thing, and there will be pressure to overcome that every season until it’s done. Hopefully March 2024.

[Skatastrophy]

Doc and 21Jumpstreet's insights jive with my feelings now that I've calmed down a bit.

All season this team played with a cultivated fun energy. Stay loose, stay connected.

That's really hard to keep rolling when you're on the biggest stage of your life. Hard to not clench up.

Shaka and the coaches will be well served to try to replicate the stress of the tournament, both for the players and themselves, and how to perform under pressure. When you don't want to dance or clap. When you want it so bad you can taste it.

It's extremely hard to get that anxiety and tension to go away with breathing exercises. It's more valuable, IMO, to accept the feeling and play with it inside of you. Harness it. It's not going away. Not in March. That's what we didn't have a gameplan for.

[Otule's Glass Eye]

I expect this same team to run it back and dominate the Big East next year, get a top 2 seed again, and make a DEEP run in the tournament next year. Anything else would be a disappointment as we’ll start loading some of the starting 5 after next season. They should’ve made it to the E8 or further this year but if you play a bad game in the tournament you’re going home. It is what it is. Still had tremendous fun watching this team this year and glad to get the first tourney win in a decade.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

He had a plan but not the horses.   MSU had the plan and the horses.

Agree to disagree. I didn't see Vermont attempt to take away driving or passing lanes as you say MSU did. What I saw was a guy that injured his thumb the day before, seriously exacerbated it on his first or second drive against Vermont, and was effectively done for the rest of the tournament.

[21Jumpstreet]

This^^^^

There was a palpable feel in both games in Columbus that wasn’t there earlier in the season.

While Tyler was the most obvious, you could really tell that the team wasn’t as “together” and as “comfortable” as it had been all season. The joy of their game and the calming influence didn’t seem to be there.
There were plenty of examples while watching live, but the short tempers with the refs and Shakas upset towards his guys really stood out.

Must have been the magnitude of the moment.
I completely agree with the point above that Omax and especially Oso really stood out in a positive light, and that was great to see.

The entire game yesterday I just waited for TyKo to make one “wow” play, one really good pass to get someone an easy bucket. The turnovers sucked, but I thought if he just made one beautiful play that it would get both him and the team going.
Then he made an amazing pass to Oso for an and one and the Marquette fans exploded.
Didn’t have the effect I had hoped it would unfortunately.

Either way, whether we like it or not, Coach Shaka and his March struggles since VCU is unfortunately now a thing, and there will be pressure to overcome that every season until it’s done. Hopefully March 2024.

I agree DocV. We screamed when TyKo made that pass, my son looked at me and smiled, he felt it, we felt it. It just didn’t lead to the next moment. I felt like we were up in our seats just as quickly as we were down.

I’ll add, on the way home we were talking with my 16 year old son. He’s a pretty good soccer player, has a goal to play college soccer, has a dream play D1, but he is the unquestioned captain and leader of his team. He said he is like Tyler, as he goes the team goes. And what was his most astute comment, I think, was when he said he just doesn’t understand how Tyler can work so hard for so long to reach this moment and then act like he did. He also pays very close attention to warm ups, to player interaction, to mannerisms, to body language. He said Kam seemed off. He was right.

As we all know, we have total control over our attitude and effort. Sometimes we will get beat by a better team, but is sure does sting when we didn’t give everything we had in our control to our teammates, coaches, or ourselves. We are human. And, this is the best way to learn and grow, in my opinion. As my son also said, dad, I’ve dealt with adversity, it makes you stronger, it makes you hungrier…if you want it to.

I love Shaka, I love the team. I buy what Shaka is selling, and I could see that his energy fizzled. Tyler’s attitude and leadership fizzled. Kam’s composure and light hearted nature fizzled. I know what Shaka says is genuine, I know it will lead to success as players and men. The culture is being built, this weekend was a massive challenge to the culture and to our leaders. We didn’t quite hold tough, we didn’t quite exhibit what we’ve been preaching all year. I bet we do when in this position next year.

[5DollarPitcher]

He had a plan but not the horses.   MSU had the plan and the horses.

Lol stop. Tyler just played bad. Lights too bright? Injury? Both? Not sure but coaching didn’t take him out of these games.

[tower912]

According to Shaka and Izzo, MSU's defense was an important factor.




Lol.

[Uncle Rico]

According to Shaka and Izzo, MSU's defense was an important factor.




Lol.

Yes, they played good defense.  I guess Syracuse playing zone in 2013 was scheme, too.   

[TSmith34, Inc.]

According to Shaka and Izzo, MSU's defense was an important factor.




Lol.

Well sure, undoubtedly MSU's defense had something to do with it, we just disagree with where to assign the percentages. I didn't see a masterclass from Izzo that somehow also extended to the Vermont game.