MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => COVID-19 => Topic started by: rocky_warrior on April 13, 2020, 02:53:55 PM
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I know there could be a "maybe" option, depending on what precautions are being taken, or how full the place is - but that varies per individual (and we don't know what the precautions are...). So, given pre-covid conditions, would you go out again (at least as often as you used to)?
I probably won't, but curious of opinions.
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Tough call, but I'd say no at this point.
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Probably. But, weather permitting, I am going to want to sit outside.
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I will go to the local places that I like. Tandem will be my first stop. The stuff they are doing for those in need in Milwaukee is inspiring.
I will also go to get a haircut as soon as those can open and I will go play basketball with my usual group of friends on Mondays and Wednesday’s.
Other than that I’ll continue to get outside as much as I can and will probably be back in the office full time.
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Yes. I'm missing my bar
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I will go to the local places that I like. Tandem will be my first stop. The stuff they are doing for those in need in Milwaukee is inspiring.
I will also go to get a haircut as soon as those can open and I will go play basketball with my usual group of friends on Mondays and Wednesday’s.
Other than that I’ll continue to get outside as much as I can and will probably be back in the office full time.
If one can afford it, paying your local barber 2-3x the normal bill would be a good way to start.
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Yes. I'd prefer if restaurants open to 50% capacity so you're not jammed next to other people. I also may be more likely to choose bars/restaurants with outdoor seating.
I won't go as much as normal, though.
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Yes and no.
Everything you do in life comes with a risk. Driving you car on a freeway, taking a flight, swimming in the ocean.
Until you have anti-bodies or are vaccinated, your COVID risk is north of zero if you leave your house.
Would I go to a packed restaurant in a city that has a ton of current cases? Not a chance.
Would I go to a half filled restaurant in a suburb with few cases? To be honest, I don't think I'd do that in May. June, yeah.
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I will go to my local favorites.
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Yes and no.
Everything you do in life comes with a risk. Driving you car on a freeway, taking a flight, swimming in the ocean.
Until you have anti-bodies or are vaccinated, your COVID risk is north of zero if you leave your house.
Would I go to a packed restaurant in a city that has a ton of current cases? Not a chance.
Would I go to a half filled restaurant in a suburb with few cases? To be honest, I don't think I'd do that in May. June, yeah.
This is where I am at--however I live in an area that is more of a hot spot than WI. So it would be dependent on the conditions at that point.
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If one can afford it, paying your local barber 2-3x the normal bill would be a good way to start.
Agreed. I was planning on doing something like that.
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Not a chance. No testing - no go.
If we had universal testing, it would be an easy fix.
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No. I will continue to live under a personal stay at home order until we have widely available testing and contact tracing.
I have been doing my best to support local businesses by purchasing gift cards, and I will tip very generously when I do finally get out, but I am not at all interested in becoming one of the early “second wave” victims.
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If one can afford it, paying your local barber 2-3x the normal bill would be a good way to start.
Did that preemptively, as I got one of the last haircuts before the shutdown. Paid 2.5x the norm.
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I might go to one with good spacing, as long as they’ll allow me in with my new 24/7 attire - Nike Elite shorts, t-shirt and flip flops.
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My family is just my wife and I, and I'm pretty sure we would go out to select places. Might be different if we have kids other than our grown ones, but we don't, so it's silly to speculate on that.
I would say we definitely would go to our favorite beverage establishments and sit outside. And probably would go to some of our restaurants depending on the situation.
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No, but I desperately want to.
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I will. Gotta build up the herd immunity, aina?.
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My family is just my wife and I, and I'm pretty sure we would go out to select places. Might be different if we have kids other than our grown ones, but we don't, so it's silly to speculate on that.
I would say we definitely would go to our favorite beverage establishments and sit outside. And probably would go to some of our restaurants depending on the situation.
In Wisconsin, we don’t have the option of sitting outside until June :-[ ... or July.
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Honestly, I'd advise against takeout. Won't be doing restaurants at all for awhile.
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No. We've been supporting the local establishments we trust and frequent during this, and that will continue. But we'll be taking out and enjoying the outdoors in our yard.
Completely agree with the stylist... Going to pay mine to reshape the beard I've been doing my best to undergo what can best be deemed as controlled chaos.
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Honestly, I'd advise against takeout. Won't be doing restaurants at all for awhile.
In regards to takeout, why?
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I wouldn’t feel comfortable until June. I order delivery 2-3 times per week now to help support local small businesses.
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Going to pay mine to reshape the beard I've been doing my best to undergo what can best be deemed as controlled chaos.
I've got a beard right now for the first time in my life. I just decided, "what the heck." Not a big fan. My wife actually likes it...or likes the way it looks, anyway.
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Honestly, I'd advise against takeout. Won't be doing restaurants at all for awhile.
You’re just rooting for full on economic collapse at this point aren’t you? My god just an incessant rain cloud on everything COVID. Another 3-4 months of lockdown, don’t order takeout. Goodness gracious.
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You’re just rooting for full on economic collapse at this point aren’t you? My god just an incessant rain cloud on everything COVID. Another 3-4 months of lockdown, don’t order takeout. Goodness gracious.
I don't think that's a fair description at all.
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No one is rooting for a meltdown. Some people obsess with the health side. Some with the economics.
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I don't think that's a fair description at all.
“Rooting for” was overly aggressive and I will apologize rather than edit. But certainly encouraging it. Restaurants hanging on by a thread if at all, people cautioning that takeout is unsafe, which I’ve yet to see rashes of people catching COVID from their pizza boxes, leading to a pullback in that will kick even more over the edge.
Every positive indicator this week, through traditional media/online/social media is getting met with not “this is good but we should still be cautious” but more like “yea well that means not much cause the second wave is gonna be worse, and that’s coming unless we remain bunkered down indefinitely”. Though I imagine that’s largely pushback to the other side’s plans to begin reopening the economy.
No one is rooting for a meltdown. Some people obsess with the health side. Some with the economics.
This is well said
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Honestly, I'd advise against takeout. Won't be doing restaurants at all for awhile.
Hope you have a bomb shelter filled with
food for months. That grocery store food is just as infected as the restaurant
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Though I imagine that’s largely pushback to the other side’s plans to begin reopening the economy.
This is what I believe to. Its absolutely disgusting how much both sides are using this pandemic to up their own political gains. I really hope that this two party nonsense goes away in the coming years.
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“Rooting for” was overly aggressive and I will apologize rather than edit. But certainly encouraging it. Restaurants hanging on by a thread if at all, people cautioning that takeout is unsafe, which I’ve yet to see rashes of people catching COVID from their pizza boxes, leading to a pullback in that will kick even more over the edge.
Every positive indicator this week, through traditional media/online/social media is getting met with not “this is good but we should still be cautious” but more like “yea well that means not much cause the second wave is gonna be worse, and that’s coming unless we remain bunkered down indefinitely”. Though I imagine that’s largely pushback to the other side’s plans to begin reopening the economy.
He was simply answering the question posed in the topic.
Anyway, I don't disagree with you either. Everything that was said earlier was about opening back up a couple weeks past peak. Since Wisconsin is peaking this week, that would mean early May. So IMO we open up cautiously then and see what happens. If we can manage it, great. If not, we may have to shut down again.
But I still think large scale events, like festivals and sporting events, are a long way from occurring.
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Just left a Skype meeting with our critical incident stress/peer support team. The discussions on this board and the increasing frustration with each other are not unique. You can see it on the news every day. Domestic violence calls are up. Medical calls where the primary symptom is an anxiety attack are up.
We are all frustrated and anxious. Some look at the health aspect and freak out. Some look at the economic fall out and freak out. Conservatives are blaming the liberal governor if my state. Liberals are blaming the president. Stress and looking for a vent.
It is wise that the mods banned politics. It is inevitable that discussions of Covid and the response are going to branch into politics.
Everybody needs to take a deep breath or 5 and recognize that everybody else is anxious, stressed, in uncharted waters too.
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It is wise that the mods banned politics. It is inevitable that discussions of Covid and the response are going to branch into politics.
Politics are banned on scoop in the same way that Cubans were banned in the US.
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Just left a Skype meeting with our critical incident stress/peer support team. The discussions on this board and the increasing frustration with each other are not unique. You can see it on the news every day. Domestic violence calls are up. Medical calls where the primary symptom is an anxiety attack are up.
We are all frustrated and anxious. Some look at the health aspect and freak out. Some look at the economic fall out and freak out. Conservatives are blaming the liberal governor if my state. Liberals are blaming the president. Stress and looking for a vent.
It is wise that the mods banned politics. It is inevitable that discussions of Covid and the response are going to branch into politics.
Everybody needs to take a deep breath or 5 and recognize that everybody else is anxious, stressed, in uncharted waters too.
And maybe think a few seconds before you post something.
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Most scoopers, most of the time, try to abide by the rules. There are people on both sides who find ways to inject politics. It gets reported, posts get deleted, temporary bans are handed out.
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Politics are banned on scoop in the same way that Cubans were banned in the US.
Only let politics in if it helps a baseball team? ;D
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The amount of people (especially in my generation) that claim to not be able to cook or to cut/manage their hair, pandemic or not, always astounds me.
I don't need to do either for the savings, but then again, these skills seem to be more concentrated among people that actually have no real need for the savings.
Maybe coronavirus will change either, but given the reports of long drive-thru lines & takeout, I doubt it.
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Yes without hesitation.
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The amount of people (especially in my generation) that claim to not be able to cook or to cut/manage their hair, pandemic or not, always astounds me.
I don't need to do either for the savings, but then again, these skills seem to be more concentrated among people that actually have no real need for the savings.
Maybe coronavirus will change either, but given the reports of long drive-thru lines & takeout, I doubt it.
What is your age?
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In regards to takeout, why?
There is zero ability to stop people who have mild or no symptoms from showing up to work. Although the food is cooked, the finished products have to be shipped out and they are in a small space where numerous infected people can be coughing and aerosolizing droplets throughout the room.
You can disinfect the outside containers, but not the food itself, allowing for an oral route of infection.
It is easier and healthier to cook at home.
Why go through all the hassle of quarantining in place, if we are going to encourage people to go out and eat food from sources we are well aware are a possible route of infection.
You’re just rooting for full on economic collapse at this point aren’t you? My god just an incessant rain cloud on everything COVID. Another 3-4 months of lockdown, don’t order takeout. Goodness gracious.
Absolutely not. Being rational, in how to best avoid infection though, yes.
I certainly don't want restaurants to fail. We should be bailing them out, though, not encouraging a route of infection, by falsely stating that "it is safe," just like we falsely stated "masks make things worse."
Also, there are restaurants now making a tidy profit, by selling their normal stocks as groceries, to people that have a hard time getting some items. There are smart, rational ways to support businesses.
Hope you have a bomb shelter filled with
food for months. That grocery store food is just as infected as the restaurant
Congrats on the aggressive hyperbole. The packaged grocery store food has days of transport time after packaging. Any virus is long dead. The food is packaged, so no virus can be transferred to the food itself. The packaging can accumulate virus, but that can easily be disinfected, or stored for 2-3 days before touching the surfaces.
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Though I imagine that’s largely pushback to the other side’s plans to begin reopening the economy.
I can't speak for everyone, but at least for me, that is absolutely not the case. I am a scientist by training, I have colleagues that cover the entire sphere of the health sciences sphere, including ones in public policy.
I listen to my peers who are experts in respective areas, that are using data-driven models.
In relation to this thread. My colleagues that study routes of infection and epidemiology models have been adamant that they would not eat any food at restaurants or even takeout. I've seen their data. I trust data.
Regarding economics. Although I am a co-founder and co-owner of a small business, that is not my area of expertise. I do have some friends who are economists, and my takeaway from chatting with them, is that they are all over the map in terms of what they think we should do right now.
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I can't speak for everyone, but at least for me, that is absolutely not the case. I am a scientist by training, I have colleagues that cover the entire sphere of the health sciences sphere, including ones in public policy.
I listen to my peers who are experts in respective areas, that are using data-driven models.
In relation to this thread. My colleagues that study routes of infection and epidemiology models have been adamant that they would not eat any food at restaurants or even takeout. I've seen their data. I trust data.
Regarding economics. Although I am a co-founder and co-owner of a small business, that is not my area of expertise. I do have some friends who are economists, and my takeaway from chatting with them, is that they are all over the map in terms of what they think we should do right now.
One thing I'm seeing in manufacturing this week, is that factories that have been open the last 3 weeks are notifying customers and suppliers that they will be closing for 2-3 weeks because someone in the shop tested positive for COVID-19. I think we are all going to see more places close (not open) the next 2-3 weeks for this reason.
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There is zero ability to stop people who have mild or no symptoms from showing up to work. Although the food is cooked, the finished products have to be shipped out and they are in a small space where numerous infected people can be coughing and aerosolizing droplets throughout the room.
You can disinfect the outside containers, but not the food itself, allowing for an oral route of infection.
If you throw the takeout in a microwave you'll be fine.
As for pizza, we order par-baked from our favorite joint and bake it in an oven.
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If you throw the takeout in a microwave you'll be fine.
As for pizza, we order par-baked from our favorite joint and bake it in an oven.
Also if you lysol all your food it's completely safe. and still tastes better than Arbys.
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There is zero ability to stop people who have mild or no symptoms from showing up to work. Although the food is cooked, the finished products have to be shipped out and they are in a small space where numerous infected people can be coughing and aerosolizing droplets throughout the room.
You can disinfect the outside containers, but not the food itself, allowing for an oral route of infection.
It is easier and healthier to cook at home.
Why go through all the hassle of quarantining in place, if we are going to encourage people to go out and eat food from sources we are well aware are a possible route of infection.
Absolutely not. Being rational, in how to best avoid infection though, yes.
I certainly don't want restaurants to fail. We should be bailing them out, though, not encouraging a route of infection, by falsely stating that "it is safe," just like we falsely stated "masks make things worse."
Also, there are restaurants now making a tidy profit, by selling their normal stocks as groceries, to people that have a hard time getting some items. There are smart, rational ways to support businesses.
Congrats on the aggressive hyperbole. The packaged grocery store food has days of transport time after packaging. Any virus is long dead. The food is packaged, so no virus can be transferred to the food itself. The packaging can accumulate virus, but that can easily be disinfected, or stored for 2-3 days before touching the surfaces.
Every man dies.
Not every man truly lives.
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Every man dies.
Not every man truly lives.
#Arby’s
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There is zero ability to stop people who have mild or no symptoms from showing up to work. Although the food is cooked, the finished products have to be shipped out and they are in a small space where numerous infected people can be coughing and aerosolizing droplets throughout the room.
You can disinfect the outside containers, but not the food itself, allowing for an oral route of infection.
It is easier and healthier to cook at home.
Why go through all the hassle of quarantining in place, if we are going to encourage people to go out and eat food from sources we are well aware are a possible route of infection.
Absolutely not. Being rational, in how to best avoid infection though, yes.
I certainly don't want restaurants to fail. We should be bailing them out, though, not encouraging a route of infection, by falsely stating that "it is safe," just like we falsely stated "masks make things worse."
Also, there are restaurants now making a tidy profit, by selling their normal stocks as groceries, to people that have a hard time getting some items. There are smart, rational ways to support businesses.
Congrats on the aggressive hyperbole. The packaged grocery store food has days of transport time after packaging. Any virus is long dead. The food is packaged, so no virus can be transferred to the food itself. The packaging can accumulate virus, but that can easily be disinfected, or stored for 2-3 days before touching the surfaces.
Perhaps I'm wrong but I thought there was no evidence of any transmission via food itself.
Personally, my girlfriend and I have avoided takeout aside from 2-3 instances as we just need a little comfort food once in a while. I've been more concerned about the packaging than the actual food itself.
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In relation to this thread. My colleagues that study routes of infection and epidemiology models have been adamant that they would not eat any food at restaurants or even takeout. I've seen their data. I trust data.
The FDA and others say there's zero evidence the virus can be transmitted through food.
It's a personal choice, and if you feel safer not ordering takeout, there's nothing wrong with that. But if there's data suggesting that this virus can be transmitted by eating food please provide it. Otherwise, this is baseless fear mongering.
While COVID-19 is new to us, coronaviruses are not, and with all the studies done on these viruses, there has never been any information to implicate food-borne transmission," says Dr. William Schaffner, a professor of medicine in the department of infectious diseases at the Vanderbilt University School of Medicine in Nashville, Tenn.
The coronavirus that causes COVID-19 is primarily spread via droplets expelled through coughing or sneezing, says William Schaffner. If you're standing too close (within about 6 feet) to an infected person when the person coughs or sneezes, or even possibly when the person speaks or exhales, viral droplets could make their way to your nasal passages and mucous membranes. Or if you touch a surface with droplets on it and then touch your eyes, nose or mouth, that could also lead to infection.
All this means that transmission via food is incredibly unlikely, say both professors Schaffner — unless you actually inhaled your food. "Even in the so unlikely scenario of virus through a sneeze or cough coming into contact with, say, a salad, that would enter the body through the throat," William Schaffner says.
William Schaffner explains that the virus is primarily risky to us when it attaches to surfaces in our respiratory tract, not when we accidentally eat it. "The virus seems to be latching onto cells in the upper reaches of the nose, a place food doesn't enter," he explains. "Virus that found its way into your gastrointestinal tract would be killed by the acid in your stomach."
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/04/08/822903487/how-safe-is-it-to-eat-take-out
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#Arby’s
For ever and ever, Amen.
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Occasionally my neighbors and I have ordered group takeout locally, preferably contactless ( one order, separate packages). I know we have been wiping down the containers, transferring to our own containers, and then zapping in the microwave. So only hot food, no salads.
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Every man dies.
Not every man truly lives.
A coward dies a thousand deaths
A brave man but once.
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You’re just rooting for full on economic collapse at this point aren’t you?
So you really think people want to lose their savings/retirement or lose their jobs? Maybe lose their houses, as well?
How about, instead, that people prefer not to die? Or have their parents or grandparents die?
If we had universal quick testing, we could start opening up immediately and people could have confidence in their safety. Instead we have a buffoon who can’t be bothered by details like testing.
I can’t even imagine the stress you face as a small business principal. That’s why it is so important for people like you to go after our leaders and hold them accountable rather than getting mad at those who just want to be safe.
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Whoa. I didn't expect the political posturing. It's a simple question, and people will have their own answers based on what they believe is "safe" for them. *perhaps* we shouldn't advise others - though nobody is forcing you to listen to that advice either.
Anyhow - looks like about 50% yes/no at this point. Which might be about expected. I actually expected a few more votes on the cautious side - but that's why I asked - I was curious.
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Whoa. I didn't expect the political posturing. It's a simple question, and people will have their own answers based on what they believe is "safe" for them. *perhaps* we shouldn't advise others - though nobody is forcing you to listen to that advice either.
You're new round these parts, ain't ya?
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The FDA and others say there's zero evidence the virus can be transmitted through food.
It's a personal choice, and if you feel safer not ordering takeout, there's nothing wrong with that. But if there's data suggesting that this virus can be transmitted by eating food please provide it. Otherwise, this is baseless fear mongering.
While COVID-19 is new to us, coronaviruses are not, and with all the studies done on these viruses, there has never been any information to implicate food-borne transmission," says Dr. William Schaffner, a professor of medicine in the department of infectious diseases at the Vanderbilt University School of Medicine in Nashville, Tenn.
The coronavirus that causes COVID-19 is primarily spread via droplets expelled through coughing or sneezing, says William Schaffner. If you're standing too close (within about 6 feet) to an infected person when the person coughs or sneezes, or even possibly when the person speaks or exhales, viral droplets could make their way to your nasal passages and mucous membranes. Or if you touch a surface with droplets on it and then touch your eyes, nose or mouth, that could also lead to infection.
All this means that transmission via food is incredibly unlikely, say both professors Schaffner — unless you actually inhaled your food. "Even in the so unlikely scenario of virus through a sneeze or cough coming into contact with, say, a salad, that would enter the body through the throat," William Schaffner says.
William Schaffner explains that the virus is primarily risky to us when it attaches to surfaces in our respiratory tract, not when we accidentally eat it. "The virus seems to be latching onto cells in the upper reaches of the nose, a place food doesn't enter," he explains. "Virus that found its way into your gastrointestinal tract would be killed by the acid in your stomach."
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/04/08/822903487/how-safe-is-it-to-eat-take-out
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41575-020-0295-7
The fecal-oral route (or ingestion of virus) is one of the mechanisms known to cause the virus.
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So you really think people want to lose their savings/retirement or lose their jobs? Maybe lose their houses, as well?
How about, instead, that people prefer not to die? Or have their parents or grandparents die?
If we had universal quick testing, we could start opening up immediately and people could have confidence in their safety. Instead we have a buffoon who can’t be bothered by details like testing.
I can’t even imagine the stress you face as a small business principal. That’s why it is so important for people like you to go after our leaders and hold them accountable rather than getting mad at those who just want to be safe.
I changed my wording to "encouraging" cause rooting was a wrongly intended word choice. And without getting political, I absolutely do believe there are plenty of people, politicians or otherwise, who would sacrifice anything and everything business wise if it means 1 less life is lost. Look at the reaction to the stimulus, instead of it being a tourniquet to prevent businesses or people from bleeding out, many look at it like "problem solved, now we just sit until this is 'over'". The government may help me not have to lay off my staff this spring, but it certainly wont help or keep my business alive the longer this goes.
I respect people with an abundance of caution and the way they go about their personal lives. But the take every precaution and risk nothing till absolutely certain route will bankrupt a lot of people, simple as that.
I wont address the rest cause Im trying to avoid the political pissing contest this place has become. I have talked at length about embracing testing and "middle" strategies. I just see the profound effect the "worst case scenario" mentality has on people's outlook, including my employees and extended family and friends.
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Also if you lysol all your food it's completely safe. and still tastes better than Arbys.
Enjoy your 24 hour ban!
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I’ve been using Foodsby a lot. Several restaurants appear in the app each day, and you can order in the morning for the same day... they drop food off in the lobby and you get notified. Had some good Mexican today, albeit a little cold
Free unlimited delivery for a month, $8.99 after... or you can pay $1.99 for each deliver. NO TIPS!!!
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https://www.nature.com/articles/s41575-020-0295-7
The fecal-oral route (or ingestion of virus) is one of the mechanisms known to cause the virus.
That's not quite what this study says.
But if you're terribly concerned about fecal matter in your food, you probably should never ever eat out, pandemic or no pandemic. There are worse diseases than COVID-19 you can get from that.
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That's not quite what this study says.
But if you're terribly concerned about fecal matter in your food, you probably should never ever eat out, pandemic or no pandemic. There are worse diseases than COVID-19 you can get from that.
I'm looking forward to going back to the days when the fecal matter in my take out food isn't infected with coronavirus!!!
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I'm looking forward to going back to the days when the fecal matter in my take out food isn't infected with coronavirus!!!
Thanks for the laugh. I needed that today.
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Eye eat lotsa fecal matta every dey, aina?
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Eye eat lotsa fecal matta every dey, aina?
Your grin gives it away.
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I'm looking forward to going back to the days when the fecal matter in my take out food isn't infected with coronavirus!!!
Thank you for this post. I tip my hat to you.
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That's not quite what this study says.
But if you're terribly concerned about fecal matter in your food, you probably should never ever eat out, pandemic or no pandemic. There are worse diseases than COVID-19 you can get from that.
I don't think you understand what the article says. An oral route is indeed a mechanism of infection. This is well known. The fecal aspect, is that the virus is also expelled in fecal matter.
Here is my question for you. If you cannot get infected from oral intake from contaminated surfaces (e.g. food), then why are we telling people to avoid touching their mouth if they have touched a surface?
Why is the CDC telling people to disinfect groceries, so that you don't accidentally touch your mouth, or other orifices, after touching those surfaces.
Does food magically nullify the virus, but your hands don't? That if someone coughs on a salad, and you put it in your mouth...safe, but if some coughs in a room, and you touch a surface with your hand and then touch your mouth...not safe? That would be illogical.
It is because oral exposure to virus is one of the routes of infection. That includes the oral intake of food contaminated with droplets.
The situation is this. The main route is inhalation of droplets/aerosols. Oral exposure, is another known route of infection. It has a lower rate of transfer than inhalation.
What is guiding language (at the FDA/CDC) is two fold. 1) Cutting off rapid growth of infections (social distancing). 2) Balancing hysteria and economic principles.
The latter is why they are saying that restaurant food is safe. If you tell people takeout is a risk, they don't eat takeout, and when this has calmed down, they continue to never eat takeout. That causes massive market changes that cannot be undone (e.g. hysteria and economic damage). The fact is, it is a risk, albeit a lower risk, provided everyone else is social distancing.
The corollary to this is that we are not trying to stop infection right now, rather limit it. Since it is a lower incidence of infection, letting people eat takeout maintains slow spread and build up of herd immunity. There is also some tangential evidence that an oral route of infection may lead to a more mild case, but we don't know that yet officially.
For me. I can eat healthier at home. I can eat cheaper at home. I'd rather not get infected if possible. So avoiding all reasonable routes of infection makes sense.
Regarding businesses, there are several business that I used to frequent. I know those owners, and told them to feel free to continue to charge me for what I normally would purchase if it they need it. 1 or 2 have taken me up on that option.
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I changed my wording to "encouraging" cause rooting was a wrongly intended word choice. And without getting political, I absolutely do believe there are plenty of people, politicians or otherwise, who would sacrifice anything and everything business wise if it means 1 less life is lost. Look at the reaction to the stimulus, instead of it being a tourniquet to prevent businesses or people from bleeding out, many look at it like "problem solved, now we just sit until this is 'over'". The government may help me not have to lay off my staff this spring, but it certainly wont help or keep my business alive the longer this goes.
I respect people with an abundance of caution and the way they go about their personal lives. But the take every precaution and risk nothing till absolutely certain route will bankrupt a lot of people, simple as that.
I wont address the rest cause Im trying to avoid the political pissing contest this place has become. I have talked at length about embracing testing and "middle" strategies. I just see the profound effect the "worst case scenario" mentality has on people's outlook, including my employees and extended family and friends.
Agree 100% Wags. We know who is most at risk. If you yourself or someone who lives with you falls into that category by all means self quarantine until you’re comfortable. A month, 6 months or longer. And let’s make sure those people are taken care of - but while we’re doing what we can to speed up the process to make everyone safe, why not have those not at risk help save the economy?
And if my solution is too simplistic, I trust the medical people and the economists to come up with a plan that isn’t.
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Agree 100% Wags. We know who is most at risk. If you yourself or someone who lives with you falls into that category by all means self quarantine until you’re comfortable. A month, 6 months or longer. And let’s make sure those people are taken care of - but while we’re doing what we can to speed up the process to make everyone safe, why not have those not at risk help save the economy?
And if my solution is too simplistic, I trust the medical people and the economists to come up with a plan that isn’t.
I see two issues with this proposal.
First, the number of at risk people is pretty significant. I don’t know the numbers, but if you take out all the smokers, obese people, diabetics, hypertensives and immunocompromised people, the workplace might still be pretty lonely.
Second, the lower risk workers would still come home at night...and in many cases they would be coming home to a place with one of the aforementioned high-risk people. And voilá - you again have high-risk people getting infected.
I’m sure things will reopen before too long, and then we’ll see. But if we reopen too soon and don’t have comprehensive testing and contact tracing, I fear we may be having this same debate in July....
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I don't think you understand what the article says. An oral route is indeed a mechanism of infection. This is well known. The fecal aspect, is that the virus is also expelled in fecal matter.
Here is my question for you. If you cannot get infected from oral intake from contaminated surfaces (e.g. food), then why are we telling people to avoid touching their mouth if they have touched a surface?
Why is the CDC telling people to disinfect groceries, so that you don't accidentally touch your mouth, or other orifices, after touching those surfaces.
Does food magically nullify the virus, but your hands don't? That if someone coughs on a salad, and you put it in your mouth...safe, but if some coughs in a room, and you touch a surface with your hand and then touch your mouth...not safe? That would be illogical.
It is because oral exposure to virus is one of the routes of infection. That includes the oral intake of food contaminated with droplets.
The situation is this. The main route is inhalation of droplets/aerosols. Oral exposure, is another known route of infection. It has a lower rate of transfer than inhalation.
What is guiding language (at the FDA/CDC) is two fold. 1) Cutting off rapid growth of infections (social distancing). 2) Balancing hysteria and economic principles.
The latter is why they are saying that restaurant food is safe. If you tell people takeout is a risk, they don't eat takeout, and when this has calmed down, they continue to never eat takeout. That causes massive market changes that cannot be undone (e.g. hysteria and economic damage). The fact is, it is a risk, albeit a lower risk, provided everyone else is social distancing.
The corollary to this is that we are not trying to stop infection right now, rather limit it. Since it is a lower incidence of infection, letting people eat takeout maintains slow spread and build up of herd immunity. There is also some tangential evidence that an oral route of infection may lead to a more mild case, but we don't know that yet officially.
For me. I can eat healthier at home. I can eat cheaper at home. I'd rather not get infected if possible. So avoiding all reasonable routes of infection makes sense.
Regarding businesses, there are several business that I used to frequent. I know those owners, and told them to feel free to continue to charge me for what I normally would purchase if it they need it. 1 or 2 have taken me up on that option.
"Currently there is no evidence to support transmission of COVID-19 associated with food. "
- CDC
https://www.cdc.gov/foodsafety/newsletter/food-safety-and-Coronavirus.html
"There has been no confirmed fecal-oral transmission of COVID-19 to date."
- CDC
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/php/water.html
As I said, you do you. If you believe eating takeout exposes you unnecessarily, then don't eat takeout.
But your claim that eating food exposes a person to the virus goes against all the scientific evidence to date. You say you believe in data. The data says your fears are unfounded.
The reason you're told to wash your hands and not touch your face (face ... not just mouth as you say) is that the virus spreads through inhalation, which can be done through the mouth or nose. Not because it's swallowed.
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I see two issues with this proposal.
First, the number of at risk people is pretty significant. I don’t know the numbers, but if you take out all the smokers, obese people, diabetics, hypertensives and immunocompromised people, the workplace might still be pretty lonely.
Second, the lower risk workers would still come home at night...and in many cases they would be coming home to a place with one of the aforementioned high-risk people. And voilá - you again have high-risk people getting infected.
I’m sure things will reopen before too long, and then we’ll see. But if we reopen too soon and don’t have comprehensive testing and contact tracing, I fear we may be having this same debate in July....
100% agree.
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I see two issues with this proposal.
First, the number of at risk people is pretty significant. I don’t know the numbers, but if you take out all the smokers, obese people, diabetics, hypertensives and immunocompromised people, the workplace might still be pretty lonely.
Second, the lower risk workers would still come home at night...and in many cases they would be coming home to a place with one of the aforementioned high-risk people. And voilá - you again have high-risk people getting infected.
I’m sure things will reopen before too long, and then we’ll see. But if we reopen too soon and don’t have comprehensive testing and contact tracing, I fear we may be having this same debate in July....
The fact is we are going to "open back up" prior to having comprehensive testing and contact tracing. And we may need to go right back into quarantine a couple of months later.
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The fact is we are going to "open back up" prior to having comprehensive testing and contact tracing. And we may need to go right back into quarantine a couple of months later.
I think it’s going to be a bunch of local experiments. Where I live we will likely be on the slow end due to being a hot spot.
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The fact is we are going to "open back up" prior to having comprehensive testing and contact tracing. And we may need to go right back into quarantine a couple of months later.
Exactly. It'd be like fighting a wildfire for a month, and then when we get 90% containment saying, "eff it, good enough".
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"Currently there is no evidence to support transmission of COVID-19 associated with food. "
- CDC
https://www.cdc.gov/foodsafety/newsletter/food-safety-and-Coronavirus.html
"There has been no confirmed fecal-oral transmission of COVID-19 to date."
- CDC
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/php/water.html
As I said, you do you. If you believe eating takeout exposes you unnecessarily, then don't eat takeout.
But your claim that eating food exposes a person to the virus goes against all the scientific evidence to date. You say you believe in data. The data says your fears are unfounded.
You are flat out wrong that this goes against all scientific evidence to date. I provided a peer reviewed article from one of the premier journals in the world that says so. And I never said I feared getting the disease that way, I said the risk outweighs any benefit to me.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/langas/article/PIIS2468-1253(20)30048-0/fulltext
Here is another one from a premier medical journal stating the same, and indicating that for MERS enteric infections precede lung infections (e.g. oral route). The same was observed in some instances of SARS, and in some Chinese reported COVID cases.
All this data falsifies the statement that COVID cannot spread through an oral route. Nothing is confirmed in science. Science proceeds through the generation and testing of hypotheses/statements through falsification and collection of disconfirming results. The known data falsifies the CDC stance the way you read it (they qualify it with "confirmed" which is important political/marketing language; see below).
Regarding CDC statements:
The CDC also says animals cannot get sick.
"At this time there is no evidence that companion animals, including pets, can become sick with or spread COVID-19."
We know that is factually incorrect and that cats in particular are susceptible.
We also have long known that it was factually incorrect that masks do not help mitigate spread of the disease. Yet the CDC said otherwise.
The CDC and FDA have dual roles in providing medical information, and political/social messaging.
The statements you see are nuanced, to avoid mass hysteria. If people fear about the food and water supply, there is mass hysteria. Since the rate of transmission is low under normal circumstances by that route they use nuanced language like "confirmed," to avoid hysteria, without putting vulnerable populations at risk.
The word confirmed is used, because it is true. It is also true, that we have never tried to confirm it, or disprove it, because we all know that it is one of the routes of infection. It is a lower-risk route, but one of the routes of entry for the virus.
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And I want to make clear. I never said others shouldn't be able to get takeout.
I think people are adults and can take what risk they like, provided they are properly informed. I'm not going to lie, or use nuanced language to avoid hysteria. I'll say it like it is, low risk, and let grown adults decide for themselves.
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The fact is we are going to "open back up" prior to having comprehensive testing and contact tracing. And we may need to go right back into quarantine a couple of months later.
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I changed my wording to "encouraging" cause rooting was a wrongly intended word choice. And without getting political, I absolutely do believe there are plenty of people, politicians or otherwise, who would sacrifice anything and everything business wise if it means 1 less life is lost. Look at the reaction to the stimulus, instead of it being a tourniquet to prevent businesses or people from bleeding out, many look at it like "problem solved, now we just sit until this is 'over'". The government may help me not have to lay off my staff this spring, but it certainly wont help or keep my business alive the longer this goes.
I respect people with an abundance of caution and the way they go about their personal lives. But the take every precaution and risk nothing till absolutely certain route will bankrupt a lot of people, simple as that.
I wont address the rest cause Im trying to avoid the political pissing contest this place has become. I have talked at length about embracing testing and "middle" strategies. I just see the profound effect the "worst case scenario" mentality has on people's outlook, including my employees and extended family and friends.
I continue to find your arguments pretty reasonable. Since I quit working a few years ago, I am out of the loop and need to see opinions from guys in your position. I can't agree with all you say, but generally am on board.
I think back to Mid-February when I ran into the CEO of the company I worked for at a restaurant. Her big concern was China and the effects on sourcing. How times have changed in 8 weeks.
My big worry about fully buying in to your view is what happens if the virus flares up again? I just think that might be worse that waiting a little longer to open up. But I don't have to weigh the pros and cons like you do.
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Tom Tomorrow is great.
He's a local artist here in New Haven.
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You are flat out wrong that this goes against all scientific evidence to date. I provided a peer reviewed article from one of the premier journals in the world that says so. And I never said I feared getting the disease that way, I said the risk outweighs any benefit to me.
I'll make these points and drop it:
1. The studies you've linked don't say what you claimed they say, or what you said initially. In fact, you're not even arguing what you argued initially. It's gone from "food is a possible source of infection" to "there is an oral path to infection" (on the latter .. of course, because what we inhale through our mouths can go into the respiratory system).
2. "The CDC wax wrong on X, therefore they're probably wrong on Y" is neither valid argument or data.
3. Conspiracy theories about the "nuanced" language of the studies you linked are neither helpful or data. conclusions. The language isn't nuanced. It's speculative, and not even speculative about what you're claiming.
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I'll make these points and drop it:
1. The studies you've linked don't say what you claimed they say, or what you said initially. In fact, you're not even arguing what you argued initially. It's gone from "food is a possible source of infection" to "there is an oral path to infection" (on the latter .. of course, because what we inhale through our mouths can go into the respiratory system).
2. "The CDC wax wrong on X, therefore they're probably wrong on Y" is neither valid argument or data.
3. Conspiracy theories about the "nuanced" language of the studies you linked are neither helpful or data. conclusions. The language isn't nuanced. It's speculative, and not even speculative about what you're claiming.
On 1: this was my very first statement: "You can disinfect the outside containers, but not the food itself, allowing for an oral route of infection." So I guess you now agree with me that there is an oral route of infection.
On 2: Never said that. You were the one who said I was definitively wrong, because of the CDC. I pointed out they have been wrong before.
On 3: Not a conspiracy theory. That is how science messaging works at the politics level.
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On 1: this was my very first statement: "You can disinfect the outside containers, but not the food itself, allowing for an oral route of infection." So I guess you now agree with me that there is an oral route of infection.
Dammit ... you're making a liar of me, because I have to respond to this. You're completely misstating what I've written. Nowhere have I written there isn't an oral route of infection. In fact, I've written the opposite. But that oral route is through the inhalation of infected respiratory droplets into the lungs through the mouth. It's not from eating food, as you seem to believe. Unless you're somehow inhaling tacos and slices of pizza into your respiratory system (I'd generally recommend against that, pandemic or not), you're not catching the virus from food.
And nothing in any of the studies you link says otherwise. Which you seem to admit, judging by your theory that they're obscuring the truth here. (Side note: Is it ever a good argument when you suggest that the evidence you're relying upon is less than honest?)
Don't like the CDC? Fine. Here are experts from Vanderbilt, Rutgers, Villanova, the University of Washington who all say your worries are not supported by the evidence. Have they all missed the evidence you found on Google?
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/04/08/822903487/how-safe-is-it-to-eat-take-out
I'll leave it be now. (I think).
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I continue to find your arguments pretty reasonable. Since I quit working a few years ago, I am out of the loop and need to see opinions from guys in your position. I can't agree with all you say, but generally am on board.
I think back to Mid-February when I ran into the CEO of the company I worked for at a restaurant. Her big concern was China and the effects on sourcing. How times have changed in 8 weeks.
My big worry about fully buying in to your view is what happens if the virus flares up again? I just think that might be worse that waiting a little longer to open up. But I don't have to weigh the pros and cons like you do.
Appreciate the kind words, truly.
The bolded is the crux. “A little while longer” aka 4-6 weeks past what looks like a near term peak in some hot spots like NYC/CA makes sense. PPP grants going out this week would cover employers till the second week in June. The next month would function for a lot of international facing small-mid sized businesses like December or a late summer month in Europe, limited productivity, but eyes on your next orders and moves after the holidays. Personally, we’ve sort of laid out how to handle it, and as mentioned, it would allow for a pay period or 2 post-reopening, which would actually be fantastic and helpful to restarting.
But the “little while longer” I’ve seen from some, talking about August/early fall. Sheesh. There is nothing you can do or plan for with a projected 3-4 month dead period. Anywhere else globally, be it China or Asia or Europe that has needs, will fill them elsewhere. You’ll be out of business cycles. You’re gonna have to start a cold motor, instead of rewarming one that’s idling. That’s my biggest fear and that’s what worries me about the most cautious and safe-looking plans floating around. And I know we’ve gotten sidetracked from the topic of the thread, but it’s just my reaction from all variations of uber precaution. Whether it be not eating takeout as mentioned here, or people saying we should have no sports or concerts until late 2021. It’s just a prevailing mentality and mindset that worries me greatly.
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I've got a beard right now for the first time in my life. I just decided, "what the heck." Not a big fan. My wife actually likes it...or likes the way it looks, anyway.
With all the Brazilian salons shuttered the Bearded Clam look is making a big comeback
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I am a scientist by training but I am a co-founder and co-owner of a small business, that is not my area of expertise
Man, I mean, like, you know, the whole science thing just wasn't cool, you know. I mean, like, they didn't think, like, you know, playing the Dead at work was, like, intensely...uh...what was I saying...
(https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/150310101028-02-marijuana-0310-restricted-super-169.jpg)
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Man, I mean, like, you know, the whole science thing just wasn't cool, you know. I mean, like, they didn't think, like, you know, playing the Dead at work was, like, intensely...uh...what was I saying...
Unfortunately, you are incorrect on the line of business. Not the cannabis industry. But thank you for editing my quote to make it read like I was high when I wrote it.
One of my former trainees though is currently peripheral to that industry. He is founding a company involved in testing and validation of cannabinoids in commercial products. His timing was terrible though, was just starting to get it up and running before this coronavirus thing hit.
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Don't like the CDC? Fine. Here are experts from Vanderbilt, Rutgers, Villanova, the University of Washington who all say your worries are not supported by the evidence. Have they all missed the evidence you found on Google?
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/04/08/822903487/how-safe-is-it-to-eat-take-out
I'll leave it be now. (I think).
Not trying to make you get back into the conversation... but here's my thoughts based on your link...
1) They all seem to be basing their opinions based off of previous Coronavirus research (i.e. every common cold ever). This one is novel...and seems to spread MUCH more easily
2) there's no current evidence to suggest... but we're dealing with something that was just "realized" about 4 months ago. There's a lot to learn still, and it obviously spreads MUCH more easily than other Coronavirus'
3) As discussed in the conspiracy thread with people alone in their cars with masks on, I can't really fault anyone for being more cautious than "suggested" seeing how little is known about spread, and how little time has existed to study this.
FWIW, I'm a healthy guy, active, not overweight, hike/ski at elevation regularly. But I also suffer from allergy induced asthma. My allergist tells me I have lung capacity that mere mortals can only dream of. But I also know how it feels when you can barely breathe - and your lungs can't absorb enough O2. Most people get disoriented and panic. This thing scares the hell out of me. Not enough is known, and extra precautions - including avoiding take out - are not crazy if you're looking to avoid getting sick.
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Went to an eatery today to grab something to go. Aside from the dine-in area being roped off, there were no signs a coronavirus pandemic was going on.
There were no floor markings or barriers in place to keep customers 6 feet apart. The employees were not wearing masks. Only the employee who handled the food wore gloves; the one handling transactions did not. I had to physically hand my credit card to an employee, who swiped it and handed it back; most establishments now let the customer insert cards themselves. That employee and I definitely were closer than 6 feet apart during the handling of the credit card. There was no plastic shield in place to protect either of us.
Pretty disappointed about how lackadaisically they are taking this, and I am likely to steer clear of it either until acceptable measures are put in place or until the pandemic threat has passed.
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Pretty disappointed about how lackadaisically they are taking this, and I am likely to steer clear of it either until acceptable measures are put in place or until the pandemic threat has passed.
So did you eat the food? If so, what is the point of this part.
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Why would you go back?
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FWIW, I'm a healthy guy, active, not overweight, hike/ski at elevation regularly. But I also suffer from allergy induced asthma. My allergist tells me I have lung capacity that mere mortals can only dream of. But I also know how it feels when you can barely breathe - and your lungs can't absorb enough O2. Most people get disoriented and panic. This thing scares the hell out of me. Not enough is known, and extra precautions - including avoiding take out - are not crazy if you're looking to avoid getting sick.
I'm pretty much in the same boat...except that my occasional asthma is triggered by vigorous exercise in cold weather. I have spent a lifetime running marathons, cycling long distances, and hiking challenging trails. Living in MN, much of that occurs in cold weather.
So like you, even though I don't consider myself "sick" and my pre-existing respiratory condition is a very limited one, it is scary as hell to think it might land me on a ventilator if I get COVID. As a result, even when they open more places, I am still going to wait until we have truly comprehensive testing and contact tracing, and perhaps even better treatment options, before I go back to anything resembling a normal social life.
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So did you eat the food? If so, what is the point of this part.
You know ... we did. So I guess we're the dopes.
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Went to an eatery today to grab something to go. Aside from the dine-in area being roped off, there were no signs a coronavirus pandemic was going on.
There were no floor markings or barriers in place to keep customers 6 feet apart. The employees were not wearing masks. Only the employee who handled the food wore gloves; the one handling transactions did not. I had to physically hand my credit card to an employee, who swiped it and handed it back; most establishments now let the customer insert cards themselves. That employee and I definitely were closer than 6 feet apart during the handling of the credit card. There was no plastic shield in place to protect either of us.
Pretty disappointed about how lackadaisically they are taking this, and I am likely to steer clear of it either until acceptable measures are put in place or until the pandemic threat has passed.
Reminds me of a chance encounter I had with an F 18 Driver I knew who also had a less than appetizing dining experience:
Warthog Driver: "Hornet Man. Was that you I saw with a Sea Monster the other night?"
Naval Aviator: (Hangs his head in shame) "Yea, that was me. Not only did she look like a river pig but she smelled like a Hyderabad sewer during a cholera outbreak and her snatch was hairier than the Mekong Delta during the Tet Offensive."
Warthog Driver: "Wow. But hey, did you bone her?"
Naval Aviator:" Well, yea, of course I did!"
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There seems to be a study for everything.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/20/health/airflow-coronavirus-restaurants.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/20/health/airflow-coronavirus-restaurants.html)
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https://wgntv.com/news/coronavirus/restaurants-air-conditioning-tied-to-9-covid-19-cases-among-diners-who-sat-near-single-infected-person/
Story from China.
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Given the local idiots behavior and seemingly intent on going against every social distancing recommendation, I will not for quite a while.
Read posts where people say they can't wait to go out and rub their hands on everything, a la the NBA idiot.
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Given the local idiots behavior and seemingly intent on going against every social distancing recommendation, I will not for quite a while.
Read posts where people say they can't wait to go out and rub their hands on everything, a la the NBA idiot.
Yeah - In the next few weeks I'm going to have to start getting on planes and flying/traveling again. But I'll still try to be super vigilant, and avoid all unnecessary social situation.
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Last night marked the 10th different locally owned restaurant we have gotten carry out from in the last 5 weeks. Spreading it around.
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Last night marked the 10th different locally owned restaurant we have gotten carry out from in the last 5 weeks. Spreading it around.
I've been focusing my efforts. I picked Harolds Chicken #88 as the restaurant I'm going to try to keep open. I'm doing everything I can, including a lot of exercising...
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Food poisoning from carry out yesterday. Made me think that restaurants are probably pushing dates on food and focusing on getting rid of old inventory. Stock up on Probiotics, charcoal, pedialyte and ginger if you're going to get carry out sea food.
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Food poisoning from carry out yesterday. Made me think that restaurants are probably pushing dates on food and focusing on getting rid of old inventory. Stock up on Probiotics, charcoal, pedialyte and ginger if you're going to get carry out sea food.
Galway,
Funny you say this. Over the weekend we got takeout from our neighborhood pizza and Italian place. One of the side salads that came with a meal just did not look fresh (unusual for this restaurant) and my wife ended up just dumping in our backyard compost pit.
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Last night marked the 10th different locally owned restaurant we have gotten carry out from in the last 5 weeks. Spreading it around.
We were trying to do this, but then noticed some were not themselves practicing safety measures. Place we got lunches decided they didn't need to use masks when interacting with customers. Bye. Won't be visiting after this is over either.
There are a couple that were irresponsible with distancing until forced to close their dining areas. Bye. Won't be visiting after this is over either.
We are now, as others, focusing on a few to support, ones we know and know they are practicing good safety measures. Oh, and the staff gets really generous tips.
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We were trying to do this, but then noticed some were not themselves practicing safety measures. Place we got lunches decided they didn't need to use masks when interacting with customers. Bye. Won't be visiting after this is over either.
There are a couple that were irresponsible with distancing until forced to close their dining areas. Bye. Won't be visiting after this is over either.
We are now, as others, focusing on a few to support, ones we know and know they are practicing good safety measures. Oh, and the staff gets really generous tips.
Are the customers wearing masks when picking up food?
I’m fine with restaurants that kept their dining areas open until the government gave guidelines that they can’t keep it open. That shouldn’t really be up to them to decide, restaurants shouldn’t have to have scientists or doctors on staff telling them if they’re keeping their customers healthy. That’s why we need leadership at the top, and if restaurants follow their guidelines then all good.
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As people still try and communicate, the people not wearing the masks are likely to give people wearing masks the virus, so a restaurant employee not wearing one endangers more people.
As far as the restaurants before the shutdown, they were supposed to be at 50% capacity. the ones I talked about had people shoulder to shoulder at the bar. Not at all following guidelines. So big nope after that.
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Last night marked the 10th different locally owned restaurant we have gotten carry out from in the last 5 weeks. Spreading it around.
Let's hope not. 8-)
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At this point, I would probably go because I'm not in an at-risk group. I'd social distance afterwards though unless I can get an antibody test that shows I've already had it.
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My neighbors and I will periodically do one takeout order from a local place. With separate meals, one pickup. But we don’t do salads, only hot stuff that gets zapped a little bit first.
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My neighbors and I will periodically do one takeout order from a local place. With separate meals, one pickup. But we don’t do salads, only hot stuff that gets zapped a little bit first.
Found your problem.
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I am unsure of the mask if the thought of people is it will keep them safe. I was just at target getting a few essentials and i would 75% of the people in store had a mask of those 75% at least half i witnessed them adjust the mask in some way.
I understand the theory that it will help prevent the spread cause it will lesson the droplets from those that have the virus.
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As people still try and communicate, the people not wearing the masks are likely to give people wearing masks the virus, so a restaurant employee not wearing one endangers more people.
As far as the restaurants before the shutdown, they were supposed to be at 50% capacity. the ones I talked about had people shoulder to shoulder at the bar. Not at all following guidelines. So big nope after that.
I see. From what I remembered in Wisconsin it basically went from everything is open down to gatherings of no more than 10 people allowed (aka dining room areas of restaurants are closed). I could be misremembering that and there was a point where they put a 50% capacity guideline out there.
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I’m in Florida. We had 50% and 10 feet between tables and bar seats. Didn’t last long before they shut it down.
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Hards,we’re not eating together. We simply take turns paying for the takeout. Everybody gets their own pizza, for example, and they are left on respective doorsteps by whoever does the pickup. Just away for a bit of solidarity.
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Hards,we’re not eating together. We simply take turns paying for the takeout. Everybody gets their own pizza, for example, and they are left on respective doorsteps by whoever does the pickup. Just away for a bit of solidarity.
Fair enough!
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Michigan restaurants open for eating in in June 8. I just made my reservation. Best birthday present ever.
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Michigan restaurants open for eating in in June 8. I just made my reservation. Best birthday present ever.
Outstanding. Enjoy. Happy birthday.
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We went to our favorite breakfast place on Sunday. Our first meal out in two months. It was nice.
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I went out to my local bar, outdoor seating only, Friday night. Saw some old friends, good for the soul.
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Got together with my Thursday craft beer crew last week at one of the local breweries -- first time we were able to get together in more than two months.
Sat on the outside patio, socially distanced. Whenever one of us went inside for a refill, we put on our mask. All of the staff at the brewery wore masks.
It felt about as safe as any of this stuff can be, and we had a good time. Enjoyed two NE IPAs and a delicious sour.
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GF and I had appetizer and drinks at a local spot on the patio and it was great to have a tiny minute of normalcy before we got shut down because of looters
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GF and I had appetizer and drinks at a local spot on the patio and it was great to have a tiny minute of normalcy before we got shut down because of looters
Had food and drinks on a patio last week with my fiance. It was nice, everyone was distanced. Would not feel comfortable eating indoors at this point.
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We had dinner at Champps on Saturday, place was nearly empty, which was nice.
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Our son, who graduated from DePaul in March, found out he had received a pretty sweet scholarship that they applied retroactively to the autumn and winter quarters. So because all of his schooling already had been paid for, they just gave us that cash as a refund. It was totally unexpected, so a great surprise that we found out about Friday.
I asked my wife if she wanted to go to eat to celebrate, and she usually loves to go out, but she said she wasn't ready, not even to sit on a patio. So we ordered a pizza and brought it home.
She'll get there, but a lot of people around the entire country are still cautious and concerned. That is reflected in the results of pretty much every poll, whether national or state-level, that has been taken the last month.
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First day back in the YMCA. Limit on numbers of people in certain areas. Cleaning equipment between uses. No rec sports. Social distancing.
No masks required.
We'll see.
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Was it fun to stay there?
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Was it fun to stay there?
*Insert village people gif*
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Was it fun to stay there?
Did not realize that jesmu84 was a young man.
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Did not realize that jesmu84 was a young man.
No need to feel down.
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Interesting data...I dont know how to insert a non-linked Jpeg picture, but here is something to think about on managing the pandemic.
Germany bookings at restaurants ("seated diners - via Open table") is back to prior year level as of the week of 5/31. US, Australia, Canada, UK, Down 80% - 100% (US the best of that bunch).
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I was just reading about the restaurant industry this morning. Rolling Stone talks with a top NYC Chef and discusses how the restaurant business was probably unsustainable as it was before the pandemic and how there is an opportunity for restaurants to change going forward. The restaurant pandemic fallout statistics cited in the article are brutal.
Can the Restaurant Industry Be Saved?
Daniel Humm ran a three-star Michelin kitchen. Now, it’s a commissary for frontline workers — and he just may keep it that way
By RYAN BORT
https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/can-the-restaurant-industry-be-saved-995037/
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I was just reading about the restaurant industry this morning. Rolling Stone talks with a top NYC Chef and discusses how the restaurant business was probably unsustainable as it was before the pandemic and how there is an opportunity for restaurants to change going forward. The restaurant pandemic fallout statistics cited in the article are brutal.
Can the Restaurant Industry Be Saved?
Daniel Humm ran a three-star Michelin kitchen. Now, it’s a commissary for frontline workers — and he just may keep it that way
By RYAN BORT
https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/can-the-restaurant-industry-be-saved-995037/
It is interesting that they chose a place that charged hundreds of dollars per plate as their example. Restaurants will survive.
The economy has a tendency to rebalance itself. If all the restaurants close because they can't afford rent, guess what? Landlords will have tons of empty space, and they will be forced to lower their rent. That space can't all be filled by vape shops and nail salons.
Going out to eat isn't disappearing any time soon. We are social animals, and meeting for a meal is probably the most popular social activity there is. We are also very mobile (Covid-19 notwithstanding) and if we aren't at home at mealtime, we are going to need to find a place to eat.
Also, the concept of restaurants having a "catering shift" to feed hungry people is intriguing.
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The economy has a tendency to rebalance itself. If all the restaurants close because they can't afford rent, guess what? Landlords will have tons of empty space, and they will be forced to lower their rent. That space can't all be filled by vape shops and nail salons.
I think this has to and will happen too. A lower rent is better than no rent. Just makes sense.
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It is interesting that they chose a place that charged hundreds of dollars per plate as their example. Restaurants will survive.
The economy has a tendency to rebalance itself. If all the restaurants close because they can't afford rent, guess what? Landlords will have tons of empty space, and they will be forced to lower their rent. That space can't all be filled by vape shops and nail salons.
Going out to eat isn't disappearing any time soon. We are social animals, and meeting for a meal is probably the most popular social activity there is. We are also very mobile (Covid-19 notwithstanding) and if we aren't at home at mealtime, we are going to need to find a place to eat.
Also, the concept of restaurants having a "catering shift" to feed hungry people is intriguing.
Economic rebalancing applies to so much of the overreaction (IMO) to COVID. Off the top of my head, beyond just restaurants...
-Offices will become a relic, vast amounts of people will WFH
-Business travel is dead, people can just Zoom/Teams
-Vacation industry will shrink cause people will be scared to travel
-Social distancing will shrink capacity at sporting events, concerts, bars, etc...
People are quick to extrapolate things that very well may be true the next 3/6/9 months into these vast sea changes for the rest of time. Call me skeptical cause we’ve seen how fast society bounces back and returns to normal
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Economic rebalancing applies to so much of the overreaction (IMO) to COVID. Off the top of my head, beyond just restaurants...
-Offices will become a relic, vast amounts of people will WFH
-Business travel is dead, people can just Zoom/Teams
-Vacation industry will shrink cause people will be scared to travel
-Social distancing will shrink capacity at sporting events, concerts, bars, etc...
People are quick to extrapolate things that very well may be true the next 3/6/9 months into these vast sea changes for the rest of time. Call me skeptical cause we’ve seen how fast society bounces back and returns to normal
Depends on if we come up with a successful treatment or vaccine for the virus. If we do things will get back to normal. If not I think your list will be pretty true.
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Economic rebalancing applies to so much of the overreaction (IMO) to COVID. Off the top of my head, beyond just restaurants...
-Offices will become a relic, vast amounts of people will WFH
-Business travel is dead, people can just Zoom/Teams
-Vacation industry will shrink cause people will be scared to travel
-Social distancing will shrink capacity at sporting events, concerts, bars, etc...
People are quick to extrapolate things that very well may be true the next 3/6/9 months into these vast sea changes for the rest of time. Call me skeptical cause we’ve seen how fast society bounces back and returns to normal
This. I remember after 9/11 when everyone was predicting the permanent end of non-essential travel.
Assuming the virus runs its course, long-term we will be fine.
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Economic rebalancing applies to so much of the overreaction (IMO) to COVID. Off the top of my head, beyond just restaurants...
-Offices will become a relic, vast amounts of people will WFH
-Business travel is dead, people can just Zoom/Teams
-Vacation industry will shrink cause people will be scared to travel
-Social distancing will shrink capacity at sporting events, concerts, bars, etc...
People are quick to extrapolate things that very well may be true the next 3/6/9 months into these vast sea changes for the rest of time. Call me skeptical cause we’ve seen how fast society bounces back and returns to normal
Totally agree.
I remember friends telling me they'd "never fly again" after 9/11. Within 6 months, they were back to doing all the travel they had ever done before, and more.
We want to do stuff. We want to spend money on experiences, and we will.
I do think there will be some businesses in which there is a lot of working from home where there was little or none before the pandemic, but I guess we'll see how that shakes out.
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This. I remember after 9/11 when everyone was predicting the permanent end of non-essential travel.
Assuming the virus runs its course, long-term we will be fine.
There were however, very permanent changes to travel. Mostly negative, mostly annoying. TSA comes to mind, but there were more.
I see the same thing happening post virus, but hopefully more positive, better cleaning of planes, hotels. But I also see some potentially negative - temperature checks for flying. End of amenities like club lounges in hotels, less service in the airport ones.
Will be interesting to see what lasting effects there are from this.
Edited to add: I could see the restaurant industry disappearing.....if they got rid of alcohol. ;D As long as there is a place to drink, there will be restaurants. People who drink get hungry.
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This. I remember after 9/11 when everyone was predicting the permanent end of non-essential travel.
Assuming the virus runs its course, long-term we will be fine.
It took 5 years for air travel to get back to pre-9/11 levels. And that was a singular event not a prolonged event epidemic.
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Depends on if we come up with a successful treatment or vaccine for the virus. If we do things will get back to normal. If not I think your list will be pretty true.
Disagree. Look at the reactions in many places already. Over time, regardless of vaccine or treatment, people are going to go back to normal. People aren’t going to completely put their lives on hold forever, they just won’t. There are plenty of infectious diseases out there far more deadly that people just accept. Better cleaning/sanitization and personal hygiene practices perhaps, but even without a vaccine, people won’t let this hold them down forever. And that’s not even talking potential immunities like happened with the Spanish Flu years ago.
It took 5 years for air travel to get back to pre-9/11 levels. And that was a singular event not a prolonged event epidemic.
VERY different IMO. Flying didn’t kill directly people in this case. It’s not less “safe” than a train, or a bus, or a ride share. Not to mention there is an inherent fear with flying due to lack of control that a major terrorist event exacerbated. You can look at how fast air passenger travel is bouncing back. In April it was around 4-4.5% of normal volume in the US. Sunday was already back to 15% of comparative volume. And it’s been increasing steadily not wildly volatile. I’d imagine we’d be at 20-25% of normal volume by July 4th. There may be a “new norm” due to airline/route consolidation and some changes in corporate travel. But if a normal day was around 2.5MM air passengers domestically, I don’t see us getting into 2021 with under 1.5MM daily without a SEVERE second wave that cripples the country again, and that sets up for back to “normal” levels mid next year
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Disagree. Look at the reactions in many places already. Over time, regardless of vaccine or treatment, people are going to go back to normal. People aren’t going to completely put their lives on hold forever, they just won’t. There are plenty of infectious diseases out there far more deadly that people just accept. Better cleaning/sanitization and personal hygiene practices perhaps, but even without a vaccine, people won’t let this hold them down forever. And that’s not even talking potential immunities like happened with the Spanish Flu years ago.
VERY different IMO. Flying didn’t kill directly people in this case. It’s not less “safe” than a train, or a bus, or a ride share. Not to mention there is an inherent fear with flying due to lack of control that a major terrorist event exacerbated. You can look at how fast air passenger travel is bouncing back. In April it was around 4-4.5% of normal volume in the US. Sunday was already back to 15% of comparative volume. And it’s been increasing steadily not wildly volatile. I’d imagine we’d be at 20-25% of normal volume by July 4th. There may be a “new norm” due to airline/route consolidation and some changes in corporate travel. But if a normal day was around 2.5MM air passengers domestically, I don’t see us getting into 2021 with under 1.5MM daily without a SEVERE second wave that cripples the country again, and that sets up for back to “normal” levels mid next year
There's a vast middle ground somewhere between "back to normal" and "completely put their lives on hold." For as much as the "reactions in many places" are, life is nowhere near " back to normal" still. And we have to see what the results of the "reactions in many places" are.
If there is no successful vaccine or antibody, things will not be "back to normal," but they also won't be "completely putting their lives on hold." You won't see packed athletic stadiums, but maybe you see partially filled athletic stadiums. Maybe you see sport schedules move around depending on when "covid season" is. Offices will have people working from home when possible, limiting work travel, etc. These things wouldn't be close to "back to normal," and without a treatment or vaccine I think it's what you'll see.
Even with a vaccine and/or treatment, there will be some changes to everyday life.
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There's a vast middle ground somewhere between "back to normal" and "completely put their lives on hold." For as much as the "reactions in many places" are, life is nowhere near " back to normal" still. And we have to see what the results of the "reactions in many places" are.
If there is no successful vaccine or antibody, things will not be "back to normal," but they also won't be "completely putting their lives on hold." You won't see packed athletic stadiums, but maybe you see partially filled athletic stadiums. Maybe you see sport schedules move around depending on when "covid season" is. Offices will have people working from home when possible, limiting work travel, etc. These things wouldn't be close to "back to normal," and without a treatment or vaccine I think it's what you'll see.
Even with a vaccine and/or treatment, there will be some changes to everyday life.
That is how I view it. People are not going to put off their lives forever, but I suspect “normal“ will be different.
Vacations and restaurants will take a while, but they will be back. That said, we will probably see an even faster move away from mom and pop resorts and restaurants toward chains that have the resources to weather the storm.
The most significant long-term impacts I see are businesses requiring more employees to work remotely, and more closely scrutinizing the need for work-related travel. We already had a trend in this direction before COVID, and I suspect companies will have plenty of information to evaluate which in-office employees and business trips are really necessary.
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We are going to a family run resort this weekend in central WI. They've sent out their covid procedures and we are complely comfortable going there.
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Bee sure ta give da rest of us an updated review on Sybaris, hey?
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Bee sure ta give da rest of us an updated review on Sybaris, hey?
Will do. Glad you got permission to reopen. Dump some chemicals in for me, aina?
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First day open. Dinner on an outdoor deck. Happy birthday to me.
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Was in Columbus over the weekend. Had lunch on an outdoor patio and dinner at an upscale restaurant. The patio was fairly normal as it was booths and larger tables so it was never “not socially distant”. Dinner was indoors but I’d say about 50% capacity with plenty of spacing. All staff at both were wearing masks. Felt completely safe and fairly “normal”. Wouldn’t hesitate to do it again
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Mrs. 82 and I had our first night out with another couple since mid-March.
Sat outside, but none of the staff wore masks - not our server, not the helpers who brought out food, not the kitchen staff, not even the manager who came by and asked how everything was.
We were disappointed in that, and my wife wrote the manager an email saying we won't go back there either until the coronavirus threat has completely passed or unless they adopt a policy requiring all employees to wear masks. She cut and pasted a policy from a nearby rival restaurant and said that's what they should follow. The manager responded, saying we could have asked our server to put on a mask, but otherwise they have no policy requiring them.
We're going to the other restaurant this week. It's just as good, anyway.
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Not surprising, but SHEESH
https://twitter.com/carlquintanilla/status/1278766321610735620?s=21