UWM moving games back to Klotsche Center

[GGGG]

According to Mark Miller.

He says it is a great home court advantage, and I am sure it is, but at a capacity of 3,400, it is the smallest arena in the Horizon League. 

[Stronghold]

Any idea what their average attendance has been in recent years at the U.S. Cellular?  I doubt it was much higher than 3,400 so they should be able to pack the Klotsche and actually get some of those drunk UWM kids to support the team.  Will create a better buzz about the team around campus for sure.

[GGGG]

Actually, according to the NCAA database, it was 4,154.  Their long term goal is an on campus arena for basketball so maybe they view this as a necessary step toward that.

[MerrittsMustache]

UWM averaged 2,883 in 2010 and 4,154 in 2011.

Seems like a good move, although you'd think that if they had a 5,000 or 6,000-seat arena on campus, they'd be able to fill it. It's a shame that UWM athletics don't have much of a following - most of the UWM alums that I know are Badger fans.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Actually, according to the NCAA database, it was 4,154.  Their long term goal is an on campus arena for basketball so maybe they view this as a necessary step toward that.

Yea, my guess might be that if they can sell-out 3400 on their campus week-in, week-out, they can then try to justify expanding or building a new on-campus facility (maybe 6k?).

Hard to justify it when they are only drawing 4k downtown.

[MUfan12]

UWM averaged 2,883 in 2010 and 4,154 in 2011.

They hosted UW in 2011, which drew around 9k. So it skewed the numbers a bit.

[Mr. Nielsen]

The UW-UWM was over 10,000.

It's a good move for the Panthers, ONLY because the rent is too high and the WCD get $2 off of every ticket UWM sells.

[jmayer1]

The UW-UWM was over 10,000.

It's a good move for the Panthers, ONLY because the rent is too high and the WCD get $2 off of every ticket UWM sells.

Disagree. This furthers the idea that UW-Milwaukee is a low major. Ticket sales will shrink as fewer people want to trek to the Eastside without near as many dining/drinking options and they will lose any momentum they had towards building a new arena. It would not surprise me to see UW-Milwaukee step back down to D2 or D3 in the next 5 to 10 years.

[martyconlonontherun]

Disagree. This furthers the idea that UW-Milwaukee is a low major. Ticket sales will shrink as fewer people want to trek to the Eastside without near as many dining/drinking options and they will lose any momentum they had towards building a new arena. It would not surprise me to see UW-Milwaukee step back down to D2 or D3 in the next 5 to 10 years.

Are you trying to say that the 3,000 (minus the UW game) fans a game went because the game was played downtown? I bet most were families with children looking for a cheap game, alums, or students. For the first two groups, I don't think it matters much where it is played. The students attending would go up a lot out of pure convenience. There are plenty of places to eat on Oakland/North and I'm sure businesses would look at starting shuttle service.

[Dawson Rental]

MU should do the neighborly thing and offer them the McGuire Center at a discount.

[Hards Alumni]

Disagree. This furthers the idea that UW-Milwaukee is a low major. Ticket sales will shrink as fewer people want to trek to the Eastside without near as many dining/drinking options and they will lose any momentum they had towards building a new arena. It would not surprise me to see UW-Milwaukee step back down to D2 or D3 in the next 5 to 10 years.

I think you're totally off your nut.

[GGGG]

Disagree. This furthers the idea that UW-Milwaukee is a low major. Ticket sales will shrink as fewer people want to trek to the Eastside without near as many dining/drinking options and they will lose any momentum they had towards building a new arena. It would not surprise me to see UW-Milwaukee step back down to D2 or D3 in the next 5 to 10 years.

Absolutely not.  Klotsche is not a great arena by any stretch, but it is a cheaper place for them to play and will guaranty more student support.  And I have no idea what "momentum" they have been building recently, because they have by and large been mediocre, but playing in front of less than a half-full building doesn't help.

And I can guaranty you that UWM will not be stepping down to D2 or D3.  You don't hire the former Ohio State AD as an interim with the thought that they are downgrading their program.

[jmayer1]

Are you trying to say that the 3,000 (minus the UW game) fans a game went because the game was played downtown? I bet most were families with children looking for a cheap game, alums, or students. For the first two groups, I don't think it matters much where it is played. The students attending would go up a lot out of pure convenience. There are plenty of places to eat on Oakland/North and I'm sure businesses would look at starting shuttle service.

There are people that either work downtown or drive downtown, grab something to eat/drink and head to the game. There aren't any places to walk from by the KC. Shuttles are great, but that's not nearly as convenient for a fanbase that is already quite apathetic. Reading their board and looking at the comments on JS, there are already a handful of people saying they won't renew. When only 3,000 people are coming to games it doesn't take many people not coming to have a drop in attendance.

[jmayer1]

Absolutely not.  Klotsche is not a great arena by any stretch, but it is a cheaper place for them to play and will guaranty more student support.  And I have no idea what "momentum" they have been building recently, because they have by and large been mediocre, but playing in front of less than a half-full building doesn't help.

And I can guaranty you that UWM will not be stepping down to D2 or D3.  You don't hire the former Ohio State AD as an interim with the thought that they are downgrading their program.

Everybody keeps bringing up $$ savings but they were only paying $230k a year plus $2 a ticket and I'm sure splitting concession money in some way. At most I'd think you're talking about $400k (assuming they keep prices the same and pocket the extra $2 a ticket). Is the program in such dire straits that $400k a year hurts them that bad? If so, they don't ever have to worry about getting a new arena (maybe they need that $$ to pay an AD that is way overqualified for the position).

I was only referencing any momentum they had in regards to building a new arena with the announcemnt they had started looking into it and were supposedly looking at some locations, not on the court (where they've been mediocre as you said). Playing in, and not being able to sell out, a glorified high school gym won't look good for any hope of a new arena in my opinion.

This is all just my opinion, I could be totally off-base, but I don't think this move has many positives (maybe more students attend, maybe), especially in regards to attendanace and perception, including by recruits.

[PBRme]

Which UW-M are we discussing Milwaukee or Madison

[GGGG]

Everybody keeps bringing up $$ savings but they were only paying $230k a year plus $2 a ticket and I'm sure splitting concession money in some way. At most I'd think you're talking about $400k (assuming they keep prices the same and pocket the extra $2 a ticket). Is the program in such dire straits that $400k a year hurts them that bad? If so, they don't ever have to worry about getting a new arena (maybe they need that $$ to pay an AD that is way overqualified for the position).

I was only referencing any momentum they had in regards to building a new arena with the announcemnt they had started looking into it and were supposedly looking at some locations, not on the court (where they've been mediocre as you said). Playing in, and not being able to sell out, a glorified high school gym won't look good for any hope of a new arena in my opinion.

This is all just my opinion, I could be totally off-base, but I don't think this move has many positives (maybe more students attend, maybe), especially in regards to attendanace and perception, including by recruits.

Geiger is a short-timer.  He is going to be gone in 12-18 months.  But I know that one of their priorities is a new, on-campus arena.

But I understand what you are saying.  I guess after the year is done we can figure out if it made sense for them.

[MerrittsMustache]

I was only referencing any momentum they had in regards to building a new arena with the announcemnt they had started looking into it and were supposedly looking at some locations, not on the court (where they've been mediocre as you said). Playing in, and not being able to sell out, a glorified high school gym won't look good for any hope of a new arena in my opinion.

This is all just my opinion, I could be totally off-base, but I don't think this move has many positives (maybe more students attend, maybe), especially in regards to attendanace and perception, including by recruits.

It's a calculated risk. They want a new on-campus arena so they're going out to prove that they can fill their current 3,400-seat arena every night and still have a demand for tickets. Filling 20% of a large, off-campus arena wasn't going to help prove that an on-campus arena should be built.

[madtownwarrior]

if a D1 team plays in D3 gym and in a league with no legitimate D1 teams (with Butler now gone),l is it still a D1 team?

[martyconlonontherun]

There are people that either work downtown or drive downtown, grab something to eat/drink and head to the game.

I'm just don't think there are that many people who are in the mindset that you point out. I don't see UWM games as a huge social venue where people go for random entertainment. I think the core fan base (which it is pretty much down to since only 3k attend) go to the games because they are specifically going to an UWM game, and not just random entertainment. I think the added students and decrease in costs really make up for it.

[martyconlonontherun]

if a D1 team plays in D3 gym and in a league with no legitimate D1 teams (with Butler now gone),l is it still a D1 team?

Don't they still get an automatic qualifier for winning the tournament? That should help recruiting ever year if they make it to the dance yearly.

[martyconlonontherun]

Everybody keeps bringing up $$ savings but they were only paying $230k a year plus $2 a ticket and I'm sure splitting concession money in some way. At most I'd think you're talking about $400k (assuming they keep prices the same and pocket the extra $2 a ticket). Is the program in such dire straits that $400k a year hurts them that bad? If so, they don't ever have to worry about getting a new arena (maybe they need that $$ to pay an AD that is way overqualified for the position).

Based on $230,000 divided by 3,000 per game and 14 games at the US Cell plus $2 per ticket, its ~$7.50 a ticket going to the Cell. Considering they we selling 2 season tickets for $99 at one point, let's assume the average ticket was $15 (and that's being generous considering students don't pay that much) and half the ticket price is going towards the stadium. Food for thought.

[jmayer1]

I'm just don't think there are that many people who are in the mindset that you point out. I don't see UWM games as a huge social venue where people go for random entertainment. I think the core fan base (which it is pretty much down to since only 3k attend) go to the games because they are specifically going to an UWM game, and not just random entertainment. I think the added students and decrease in costs really make up for it.

There are plenty of season ticket holders on their board and in the comments section of the JS story saying they will cancel and go to fewer games, stating that the move away from the convenience of downtown to a bush league gym is the reason why. Time will tell if that actually happens or not.

This move only makes sense, in my opinion, if an announcement of a new arena is imminent; which I believe is possible but not probable at this moment.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

There are plenty of season ticket holders on their board and in the comments section of the JS story saying they will cancel and go to fewer games, stating that the move away from the convenience of downtown to a bush league gym is the reason why. Time will tell if that actually happens or not.

This move only makes sense, in my opinion, if an announcement of a new arena is imminent; which I believe is possible but not probable at this moment.

I would question the number of "professionals" who are going to games because it's downtown and it's convenient.

By that logic, shouldn't MU sell out every weeknight? Is there some huge contingent of urban professionals looking for convenient weeknight entertainment? I'm just not sure there is.

College students however, are lazy, and the ideal target for college athletics, so putting it on campus should pick up some student attendance.

[brewcity77]

Don't they still get an automatic qualifier for winning the tournament? That should help recruiting ever year if they make it to the dance yearly.

The Horizon does, but bear in mind UW-Milwaukee isn't the best Horizon League team in the state, much less the best team in the Horizon. They are definitely looking up at Cleveland State and Valpo right now, even with Butler gone, and Wardle seems to be making bigger strides than Jeter is.

Whatever UW-M does really doesn't make much difference to me, but I'd definitely hope Marquette never plays at the Klotsche. All the more reason this should be a buy series only. No sense in ever going to play in a <3,500-seat arena.

[jmayer1]

I would question the number of "professionals" who are going to games because it's downtown and it's convenient.

By that logic, shouldn't MU sell out every weeknight? Is there some huge contingent of urban professionals looking for convenient weeknight entertainment? I'm just not sure there is.

College students however, are lazy, and the ideal target for college athletics, so putting it on campus should pick up some student attendance.

I guess the people saying they won't renew for that exact reason (convenience, location, social atmosphere) are just lying.

It's not like these are random people looking for something to do, but rather UW-Milwaukee fans who either work downtown or like to make it a night downtown with the game, along with dinner/drinks, one of the things on their agenda. I don't know/care why those people do what they do, but it's pretty clear from reading their comments, that some people aren't happy with the move and as a result, won't go to as many games. Maybe this is just a small minority, but they seem to be pretty vocal. I guess we'll just have to see how it plays out.

[Hoopaloop]

Disagree. This furthers the idea that UW-Milwaukee is a low major. Ticket sales will shrink as fewer people want to trek to the Eastside without near as many dining/drinking options and they will lose any momentum they had towards building a new arena. It would not surprise me to see UW-Milwaukee step back down to D2 or D3 in the next 5 to 10 years.

Name the last school that went from DI to D2 or D3 in the last 10 years?   It is not going to happen.

I think you're totally off your nut.

+1

[Warrior1]

UWM's attendance numbers are skewed by the number of opposing fans that attend the games, and the number of attendees for the Butler game. The Horizon league typically has a good amount of travel from opposing teams as the locations are mostly midwestern. Obviously, MU and UW skewed the attendance numbers in those seasons which the games were played at UWM, but the Butler game always had at least well over a half full turnout.

With Butler moving to the A-10 you are looking at UWM's typical game numbers being well below their past averages, and that is without the move to the K-center.

If UWM is using the big sell outs in the K-center to justify a on campus arena, it could be a sad few years. I like UWM as a program, but I believe this to be a huge step backwards.

**Does anyone know if their attendance numbers assume full student turnout? IIRC MU and most other schools count tickets sold, and thus the student section is always counted as full. UWM only averages 100 or so students at a game, but if they count seats the way other schools do, the numbers at the game are abysmal.

[brewcity77]

Name the last school that went from DI to D2 or D3 in the last 10 years?   It is not going to happen.

Off the top of my head, didn't Centenary drop from D1 to D3 just last year?

[GGGG]

Name the last school that went from DI to D2 or D3 in the last 10 years?  

Centenary College of Louisiana....starting this year moved from D1 to D3.

Do I win a prize?

[chapman]

Off the top of my head, didn't Centenary drop from D1 to D3 just last year?

UNO as well.

[brewcity77]

Birmingham Southern did it in 2006...so that's 3 in the past 6 years, not really all that uncommon 

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I guess the people saying they won't renew for that exact reason (convenience, location, social atmosphere) are just lying.

It's not like these are random people looking for something to do, but rather UW-Milwaukee fans who either work downtown or like to make it a night downtown with the game, along with dinner/drinks, one of the things on their agenda. I don't know/care why those people do what they do, but it's pretty clear from reading their comments, that some people aren't happy with the move and as a result, won't go to as many games. Maybe this is just a small minority, but they seem to be pretty vocal. I guess we'll just have to see how it plays out.

Fair enough.

I don't doubt these people exist. I doubt the volume of this portion of their fanbase. If you actually like UWM hoops, you don't go out of convenience. You go because you like UWM.

UWM shouldn't cater to a uber-convenience crowd. That's a finicky group. Let that small portion of the fanbase find something else to do.

In my opinion...

[jmayer1]

Name the last school that went from DI to D2 or D3 in the last 10 years?   It is not going to happen.

+1

Name the last poster that made up multiple aliases, then used one to laud the other, and lied about it numerous times.

Welcome back Chicos.

[jmayer1]

Fair enough.

I don't doubt these people exist. I doubt the volume of this portion of their fanbase. If you actually like UWM hoops, you don't go out of convenience. You go because you like UWM.

UWM shouldn't cater to a uber-convenience crowd. That's a finicky group. Let that small portion of the fanbase find something else to do.

In my opinion...

Yeah, we'll have to see what/if any impact it has. Tough to say until the season is played out.

All this discussion will be moot anyway if they announce a new arena anytime in the near future.

[martyconlonontherun]

Yeah, we'll have to see what/if any impact it has. Tough to say until the season is played out.

All this discussion will be moot anyway if they announce a new arena anytime in the near future.

What would you consider the near future? Would they have to do it before the season to build excitement for this season, or after the season?

[jmayer1]

What would you consider the near future? Would they have to do it before the season to build excitement for this season, or after the season?

I think anytime in the next 2-3 years would be the near future. I realize that building an arena is a pretty complex venture so there's no reason to think it's going to happen overnight (especially when a governmental entity such as UWM is involved). If that happened, then I could see the sense in moving back to the Klotsche Center while the new arena was being built/planned.

[Blackhat]

UWM fanbase is weird.   Not much camaraderie on campus and high commuter school/hipster North Ave scene that don't care about school athletics.

[martyconlonontherun]

UWM fanbase is weird.   Not much camaraderie on campus and high commuter school/hipster North Ave scene that don't care about school athletics.

Remember all the ND fans you knew on campus. It's like that x100 with regards to the Badgers. Even though they didn't get in to UW, they feel that the M can be dropped.

[bradley center bat]

UWM gets 0% off of concession. It all goes to the WCD.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Centenary College of Louisiana....starting this year moved from D1 to D3.

Do I win a prize?

3 months of free hbo from directtv.

[MUfan12]

3 months of free hbo from directtv.

Just use promo code CHICOLOOP.

[JMcSteal]

Ok let's not say UWM isn't even the best Horizon team in the state because they are. They were in the Horizon league championship 2 years ago and finished in the top half last year. GB is second fiddle to Milwaukee at this point. Even though they are in the Horizon league they aren't terrible and they are definitely better than GB.

However I would definitely not want MU to play at the Klostsche

[Spotcheck Billy]

my boss and 3 of his friends have been season ticket holders for years at UWM, I just asked if they'll continue and he said yes but they are pissed that other than the Gasthaus they won't be able to get their pre-game on and then walk to the game like they did from places like Rudy's, Rock Bottom or Bar Louie

[wadesworld]

The Horizon does, but bear in mind UW-Milwaukee isn't the best Horizon League team in the state, much less the best team in the Horizon. They are definitely looking up at Cleveland State and Valpo right now, even with Butler gone, and Wardle seems to be making bigger strides than Jeter is.

Whatever UW-M does really doesn't make much difference to me, but I'd definitely hope Marquette never plays at the Klotsche. All the more reason this should be a buy series only. No sense in ever going to play in a <3,500-seat arena.

Yeah, I can't believe we're actually going to go play in the Maui Invite and the aircraft carrier game. No sense in ever going to play in a <3,500-seat arena.

[MUfan12]

Yeah, I can't believe we're actually going to go play in the Maui Invite and the aircraft carrier game. No sense in ever going to play in a <3,500-seat arena.

Lemme know when that game from the Klotsche is on ESPN.

What an asinine comment.