Jamal Cain

[Afroman]

Given how this season is unfolding and looking ahead to next season, is Jamal Cain (and to a lesser extent John, Eke and Froling) the most important incoming player in the last 20-plus years of the program? Taking into account how he is talked about on here, it sounds as if a lot is expected of him. I hope he lives up to the hype (I'm sure Wojo does, too).

[GGGG]

Given how this season is unfolding and looking ahead to next season, is Jamal Cain (and to a lesser extent John, Eke and Froling) the most important incoming player in the last 20-plus years of the program?

No.

[tower912]

Not even close. 

[GoldenDieners32]

Definitely not

[SaveOD238]

If he has a Wade-like career, he could be.  But the same could be said of every highly rated recruit.

It is, however, patently unfair to place those expectations on any kid.

[Herman Cain]

Given how this season is unfolding and looking ahead to next season, is Jamal Cain (and to a lesser extent John, Eke and Froling) the most important incoming player in the last 20-plus years of the program? Taking into account how he is talked about on here, it sounds as if a lot is expected of him. I hope he lives up to the hype (I'm sure Wojo does, too).

I don't believe Cain is hyped. I do believe he has the tools and attitude necessary to compete at the highest level. Our timing was very good in terms of signing him before he took off. It is up to the coaching staff to get max potential out of him.

[brewcity77]

Given how this season is unfolding and looking ahead to next season, is Jamal Cain (and to a lesser extent John, Eke and Froling) the most important incoming player in the last 20-plus years of the program? Taking into account how he is talked about on here, it sounds as if a lot is expected of him. I hope he lives up to the hype (I'm sure Wojo does, too).

[MuMark]

everytime I think I've seen the stupidest post ever somebody manages to take it to a new level.......

[MU82]

Oh, he's serious.

And don't call him Shirley!

[brewcity77]

everytime I think I've seen the stupidest post ever somebody manages to take it to a new level.......

I thought that about this. Then I saw MUFINY fellating guys like willie, Al Davis, and Dark Sunglasses...

[Afroman]

everytime I think I've seen the stupidest post ever somebody manages to take it to a new level.......

How is it a stupid post? The stagnant program obviously needs better players. Jamal Cain is supposed to be the best of the bunch and a potential starter coming in.

[brandx]

As a GROUP they will be very significant because they will provide something completely missing the last three years.

As individuals, they will play be role players next year..

[GoldenDieners32]

As a GROUP they will be very significant because they will provide something completely missing the last three years.

As individuals, they will play be role players next year..

Everyone sees Jamal Cain starting next year..I really don't see it. Im not saying he is a bad player but he has a chance to start

[brewcity77]

How is it a stupid post? The stagnant program obviously needs better players. Jamal Cain is supposed to be the best of the bunch and a potential starter coming in.

The past 20 years have included program changing talents in Dwyane Wade. Our first McDonald's All-American since the 1980s in Henry Ellenson. Stars from Madison, ensuring we could go into UW's back yard in Wes Matthews and Vander Blue. JUCO All-Americans like DJO and Jae Crowder. Big-name transfers that helped solidify our place in-state in Jamil Wilson and Luke Fischer.

Cain is a nice recruit and I'm glad I have him. But at the end of the day, he's a fringe 4-star kid. Maybe he develops into a star, but this didn't open up new territory, didn't make a statement of intent to the rest of the country, and wasn't a fierce recruiting battle where we went in and got a kid the local powers wanted. For now, as nice a prospect as he seems, he's just a guy at this level. It's on him to prove himself more, but the most important recruit in 20 years? Please. He's not the most important recruit in 20 months.

[GoldenDieners32]

The past 20 years have included program changing talents in Dwyane Wade. Our first McDonald's All-American since the 1980s in Henry Ellenson. Stars from Madison, ensuring we could go into UW's back yard in Wes Matthews and Vander Blue. JUCO All-Americans like DJO and Jae Crowder. Big-name transfers that helped solidify our place in-state in Jamil Wilson and Luke Fischer.

Cain is a nice recruit and I'm glad I have him. But at the end of the day, he's a fringe 4-star kid. Maybe he develops into a star, but this didn't open up new territory, didn't make a statement of intent to the rest of the country, and wasn't a fierce recruiting battle where we went in and got a kid the local powers wanted. For now, as nice a prospect as he seems, he's just a guy at this level. It's on him to prove himself more, but the most important recruit in 20 years? Please. He's not the most important recruit in 20 months.

Who do you think was the most important recruit the last 20 months? Id have to go with Markus

[Afroman]

The program is mired in mediocrity. To get it turned around, I would think that the program would need a jolt from the incoming players. If these incoming recruits are being viewed at as "role players," it doesn't give me a lot of hope.

[brewcity77]

Who do you think was the most important recruit the last 20 months? Id have to go with Markus

Markus is my first thought. Traci left because he expects him to go down as the leading scorer here all-time (I'm a skeptic on that, but he is good). He also could help to open up the West Coast a bit, though that's on Stan as much as anything (maybe he's the most important recruit of late?). I'd have to have Sam neck-and-neck, though, especially if Joey ends up committing behind him.

[GoldenDieners32]

Markus is my first thought. Traci left because he expects him to go down as the leading scorer here all-time (I'm a skeptic on that, but he is good). He also could help to open up the West Coast a bit, though that's on Stan as much as anything (maybe he's the most important recruit of late?). I'd have to have Sam neck-and-neck, though, especially if Joey ends up committing behind him.

Agree, if Joey commits then i would totally go with Sam

[#UnleashSean]

In the last 15 years we've had. Wade, Diener, Novak, Butler, DJO, Crowder, Lazar, Davante, Henry. What?

[GoldenDieners32]

In the last 15 years we've had. Wade, Diener, Novak, Butler, DJO, Crowder, Lazar, Davante, Henry. What?

But obviously Cain is better.

[#UnleashSean]

But obviously Cain is better.

I guess he could have rephrased his question by asking if Cain was going to be the most important piece in Wojo's recruiting plans. Which would have had some merit.

[Afroman]

You are obviously misreading my initial post. I did not imply that he is better than those players.
I used the words "most important incoming recruit" -- akin to when MU, in dire need of a PG, got Tony Miller to join Key, Mac, Robb, Curry, etc.

A

[Afroman]

In the last 15 years we've had. Wade, Diener, Novak, Butler, DJO, Crowder, Lazar, Davante, Henry. What?

Those players were joining waaaaaaaay better teams.
In addition, players like Wade and Butler and Lazar weren't viewed at as saviors to lift a program when they arrived.
This program is in need of some lifting.

[brewcity77]

You are obviously misreading my initial post. I did not imply that he is better than those players.
I used the words "most important incoming recruit" -- akin to when MU, in dire need of a PG, got Tony Miller to join Key, Mac, Robb, Curry, etc.

No. You used the following words:

Given how this season is unfolding and looking ahead to next season, is Jamal Cain (and to a lesser extent John, Eke and Froling) the most important incoming player in the last 20-plus years of the program? Taking into account how he is talked about on here, it sounds as if a lot is expected of him. I hope he lives up to the hype (I'm sure Wojo does, too).

Don't forget the "last 20-plus years of the program" part of your question. That's why it's ridiculous. Cain is not the most important incoming player of the last 20-plus years. He's just not. In terms of need, both Howard and Ellenson were more needs. I'd even argue Fischer, considering how long we went without a true 28 mpg center on the roster.

[Afroman]

I love this board. The condescending, elitist, know-it-all pricks really make me miss my MU days.

I guess MU is good-to-go at the forward position for the 2017-18 season. My bad.

[brewcity77]

I love this board. The condescending, elitist, know-it-all pricks really make me miss my MU days.

I guess MU is good-to-go at the forward position for the 2017-18 season. My bad.

MU has three bigs coming in without Cain and a returning PF in Hauser. With Matt in the fold, if our frontcourt next year was Heldt, Froling, Eke, John, and Hauser, we would be better from a depth perspective than we are now. I like Cain. I'm happy we have him. But we are 5 deep at the forward positions without him. I think he has the most upside of the new guys and is our best bet for a breakout frosh, but let's not confuse him with Henry Ellenson.

[wadesworld]

I love this board. The condescending, elitist, know-it-all pricks really make me miss my MU days.

I guess MU is good-to-go at the forward position for the 2017-18 season. My bad.

So the only options for a recruit are "most important recruit of the last 20 years" and "not needed?"

[Afroman]

MU has three bigs coming in without Cain and a returning PF in Hauser. With Matt in the fold, if our frontcourt next year was Heldt, Froling, Eke, John, and Hauser, we would be better from a depth perspective than we are now. I like Cain. I'm happy we have him. But we are 5 deep at the forward positions without him. I think he has the most upside of the new guys and is our best bet for a breakout frosh, but let's not confuse him with Henry Ellenson.

Two of those are projects and Heldt, a D-III player, doesn't count.

[brandx]

MU has three bigs coming in without Cain and a returning PF in Hauser. With Matt in the fold, if our frontcourt next year was Heldt, Froling, Eke, John, and Hauser, we would be better from a depth perspective than we are now. I like Cain. I'm happy we have him. But we are 5 deep at the forward positions without him. I think he has the most upside of the new guys and is our best bet for a breakout frosh, but let's not confuse him with Henry Ellenson.

Gotta correct you, Brew.

Hauser is a wing - not a power forward. One of the reasons I am more optimistic about next year is that we will have actual power forwards on the team.

[MU82]

I'll take a crack at the question asked in the opening post.

"Most important incoming player of the last 20 years," if based on actual results we got to see, was Wade. He carried us to the Final Four,  put MU hoops back on the map and is on MU's Mount Rushmore. Really, how could it be anyone else? And that's despite him having to sit out a year.

After that, Henry was pretty darn important. Wojo needed a jolt of credibility for his new program ... and for his first full recruiting class he signed our first Burger Boy in 30 years, a kid Cal and Izzo very much wanted. He, not Bo Ryan, landed the best player in recent Wisconsin prep history. Pretty important incoming player.

After that, sure, it's a matter if Cain turns out to be something. If so, he might be in the mix with Diener and a few of the others mentioned earlier, including Markus.

Just IMHO, of course.

[Afroman]

Wade sat out his first year. And, when he was an "incoming player," no one dreamed that he would be the player that he turned out to be.

[Billy Hoyle]

I'll take a crack at the question asked in the opening post.

"Most important incoming player of the last 20 years," if based on actual results we got to see, was Wade. He carried us to the Final Four,  put MU hoops back on the map and is on MU's Mount Rushmore. Really, how could it be anyone else? And that's despite him having to sit out a year.

After that, Henry was pretty darn important. Wojo needed a jolt of credibility for his new program ... and for his first full recruiting class he signed our first Burger Boy in 30 years, a kid Cal and Izzo very much wanted. He, not Bo Ryan, landed the best player in recent Wisconsin prep history. Pretty important incoming player.

After that, sure, it's a matter if Cain turns out to be something. If so, he might be in the mix with Diener and a few of the others mentioned earlier, including Markus.

Just IMHO, of course.

When everyone in that class signed Wade was the lowest rated. Merritt was the most important in that class: a top rated local kid who came to MU over better programs like Pitt when kids like him left Milwaukee.

That said, Novak was the most important. Top 30 local recruit, heavily recruited nationally. Crean beat out Bucky, Illinois and Florida, this before he took MU to the tourney for the first time.

Oh, and if not for Travis and Merritt MU loses to Holy Cross and/or Mizzou since Wade didn't show up in the 2003 tourney until the second half of the Pitt game

[tower912]

You ask a question.   Several people answer the question differently than you would have.    Ergo, they are condescending pricks.    Wow.   

[KampusFoods]

Agree, if Joey commits then i would totally go with Sam

If Joey commits, I'd probably pick Joey over Sam.

[The Lens]

Theo John might be the most important as he supposedly plays defense.  That would bring the number of defenders in the program to 1.

Hope he's up for the challenge.

[GoldenDieners32]

Theo John might be the most important as he supposedly plays defense.  That would bring the number of defenders in the program to 1.

Hope he's up for the challenge.

saw his highlights he is solid

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

Theo John might be the most important as he supposedly plays defense.  That would bring the number of defenders in the program to 1.

Hope he's up for the challenge.

John can really play some D.  Watched him play MG last week.  Didn't do much offensively, but he is serious force to reckoned with under the basket defensively.  Also looks like he is a damn body builder.  He is immediately going to make a difference for us defensively.   

edit: *MG is Maple Grove for you Sconnies*

[willie warrior]

Gotta correct you, Brew.

Hauser is a wing - not a power forward. One of the reasons I am more optimistic about next year is that we will have actual power forwards on the team.

Wow. I agree with brandi. Hauser is not a pf.
Hell, in some games wojo how ski plays him at the post for several minutes. Hauser is neither and it is a mistake to play him there.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

Wow. I agree with brandi. Hauser is not a pf.
Hell, in some games wojo how ski plays him at the post for several minutes. Hauser is neither and it is a mistake to play him there.

Well we're not exactly flush with options.  Next year will be different, and I bet Sam splits him time between the 3 and 4.

[GGGG]

Wow. I agree with brandi. Hauser is not a pf.
Hell, in some games wojo how ski plays him at the post for several minutes. Hauser is neither and it is a mistake to play him there.

They went on their run against Nova without Luke or Heldt on the floor.  It makes sense in certain match up situations, but you are correct that those should be the exception.

[brewcity77]

Gotta correct you, Brew.

Hauser is a wing - not a power forward. One of the reasons I am more optimistic about next year is that we will have actual power forwards on the team.

Hauser is a natural wing, but I was referencing both where he is this year and where he can play. If we go into next year with Sam getting some minutes at the 4, it won't be a problem. My point was that we have depth at the forward positions and multiple guys to play both spots with or without Cain.

[mu_hilltopper]

I love this board. The condescending, elitist, know-it-all pricks really make me miss my MU days.

For the record, I agree with you here.  I thought the OP was a legit question. 

Looks like some people woke up on the wrong side of the bed today.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I love this board. The condescending, elitist, know-it-all pricks really make me miss my MU days.

I guess MU is good-to-go at the forward position for the 2017-18 season. My bad.

Cain isn't a forward. He's intriguing because he has the size to guard the 1-4 positions. He has the body to be a defensive stopper that mu desperately needs. No idea if he has the skill.

I actually don't think Cain is the best player coming in next year. I think it's Froling. Kid with his size and skill is very hard to come by.

[MU82]

Wade sat out his first year. And, when he was an "incoming player," no one dreamed that he would be the player that he turned out to be.

I acknowledged that Wade sat out his first year in my comment.

I dreamed he could be great. I saw him play as a HS senior against Eddy Curry's team and he absolutely dominated; 35 pts IIRC. I called all of my MU friends and said, "We've got a great one here." I was hardly clairvoyant; by that time, Wade was very well-known.

And yes, I also acknowledge that I am operating from 20/20 hindsight. Based on what we went on to know, Wade unquestionably was the most important recruit over the last 20 years. Based on what we knew at the time of the recruitment - in other words, where Cain is right now - I defer to others who follow that stuff more than I do.

[GoldenDieners32]

Cain isn't a forward. He's intriguing because he has the size to guard the 1-4 positions. He has the body to be a defensive stopper that mu desperately needs. No idea if he has the skill.

I actually don't think Cain is the best player coming in next year. I think it's Froling. Kid with his size and skill is very hard to come by.

Hopefully cain buys into playing tough defense

[MU82]

I only hope Cain is abel.

Now THAT, my friends, is high comedy! One might even say it's biblical!!

[GGGG]

I only hope Cain is abel.

Now THAT, my friends, is high comedy! One might even say it's biblical!!

Does Marquette realize they admitted the murderer?  (Which is probably better than admitting the dead guy.)

[Earl Tatum]

We have to land Elliott for next year. That would be 3 from Michigan and
1 from Minn. Don't care about the schollies, but 2018 we have Bailey,
land Joey and Race Thompson, and or TJ Moss or Dosunmu we will have
a decent team. Now get some decent assistants, excluding Johnson and
a strengthening coach. I don't care how it comes out, JUST DO IT!
Enough of this screwing around. With all the money being spent on the
BB program and we are nothing more than a mid-major right now. Like
it or not. Pisses me off. WARRIORS, WARRIORS, WARRIORS. We are
Marquette.

[hairy worthen]

I love this board. The condescending, elitist, know-it-all pricks really make me miss my MU days.

I guess MU is good-to-go at the forward position for the 2017-18 season. My bad.

Best post I have seen on here in a long time. We'll done

[Dawson Rental]

The program is mired in mediocrity. To get it turned around, I would think that the program would need a jolt from the incoming players. If these incoming recruits are being viewed at as "role players," it doesn't give me a lot of hope.

The nice thing about role playing freshmen, they tend to stick around for four years and develop, sometimes into something special.

[Dawson Rental]

For the record, I agree with you here.  I thought the OP was a legit question. 

Looks like some people woke up on the wrong side of the bed today.

Come on, is Cain the most important recruit in the last 20 years? Legitimate question?  You're defending a guy who went on to call Heldt a Division III player?

Oh, and while we have a moderator here, isn't there a prohibition against calling other posters names?

I love this board. The condescending, elitist, know-it-all pricks really make me miss my MU days.

I guess MU is good-to-go at the forward position for the 2017-18 season. My bad.

Thank you for all you and the other mods do to make Scoop possible, but I'm guessing that you don't want everyone to feel like we can't disagree with a post of yours.

[Dawson Rental]

Does Marquette realize they admitted the murderer? (Which is probably better than admitting the dead guy.)

JUST WIN BABY!

[burger]

Wade was a partial qualifier.....

So a lot of top tier schools shied away.....

Crean offered him a full scholarship......At the time having to go one player short for Wade's freshman year.....

Wade was a Top 5 player in Illinois and I believe runner-up for Mr. Basketball.....

True Merritt was ranked higher by the "services" but all big men in that era were "overly" ranked.....

Wade was not a surprise to be a star in college.....What was a little surprising that he became a perennial all-star with multiple NBA rings and certain future hall of famer.....

In my opinion.....Jimmy Butler's ascension to be a Top 10 player in the NBA is a much bigger surprise.....

[NickelDimer]

Wade was a partial qualifier.....

So a lot of top tier schools shied away.....

Crean offered him a full scholarship......At the time having to go one player short for Wade's freshman year.....

Wade was a Top 5 player in Illinois and I believe runner-up for Mr. Basketball.....

True Merritt was ranked higher by the "services" but all big men in that era were "overly" ranked.....

Wade was not a surprise to be a star in college.....What was a little surprising that he became a perennial all-star with multiple NBA rings and certain future hall of famer.....

In my opinion.....Jimmy Butler's ascension to be a Top 10 player in the NBA is a much bigger surprise.....

Pretty sure I remember Wade finished 7th in IL mr bball

[The Lens]

Once Wade scored 88 points in a Holiday Doubleheader, the gig was up, everyone knew a star was headed north.   

[Lennys Tap]

Once Wade scored 88 points in a Holiday Doubleheader, the gig was up, everyone new a star was headed north.

Truth

[brandx]

In my opinion.....Jimmy Butler's ascension to be a Top 10 player in the NBA is a much bigger surprise.....

Maybe ...... maybe top 15 at best. Likelier closer to top 20.

[burger]

Maybe ...... maybe top 15 at best. Likelier closer to top 20.

Your opinion.....Fact is.....Starting in the NBA all star game......

Sure.....a popularity contest......But one of the Top 10 players.....Five on the East.....Five on the West......

Westbook has to be in there .....So Top 11.....

[wadesworld]

Your opinion.....Fact is.....Starting in the NBA all star game......

Sure.....a popularity contest......But one of the Top 10 players.....Five on the East.....Five on the West......

Westbook has to be in there .....So Top 11.....

Which is it? Either the 10 best players start in the All Star game or they don't. If they do then Westbrook isn't one. If they don't then starting in the All Star game doesn't prove Jimmy is a top 10 player.