Jeremy lin

[jesmu84]

What a story. Really awesome. Kobe said a few nights ago he didn't know who lin was... I'm guessing after last night, Kobe now knows.

Also reminds me a little of wes's path to a starting job.

[Tugg Speedman]

Their has been nothing like Lin in recent memory.

He is also a devout Christian  .. the NBA version of Tebow? 

[jesmu84]

Their has been nothing like Lin in recent memory.

He is also a devout Christian  .. the NBA version of Tebow?  

Can't remember where I saw it.. Grantland, maybe?.. "Taiwanese Tebow"

Or, how about "Yellow Mamba"?

[Brewtown Andy]

He's making Novak look awesome, too.

[JWags85]

Their has been nothing like Lin in recent memory.

He is also a devout Christian  .. the NBA version of Tebow? 

Please no.  Despite what ESPN may want you to think, they are nothing alike.  Lin is far more low key.

[MerrittsMustache]

It's amazing what an NBA player can do when he has basketball skills as well as a basketball IQ, especially as a PG in D'Antoni's system.

It was awesome that Kobe basically laughed at the thought of Jeremy Lin and then got completely outplayed by him a couple nights later. Can you imagine that ever happening to Jordan? Jerry Stackhouse once said that he could guard Jordan. MJ responded by dropping 49 on him...and then sitting out the 4th quarter.

[wadesworld]

It's amazing what an NBA player can do when he has basketball skills as well as a basketball IQ, especially as a PG in D'Antoni's system.

It was awesome that Kobe basically laughed at the thought of Jeremy Lin and then got completely outplayed by him a couple nights later. Can you imagine that ever happening to Jordan? Jerry Stackhouse once said that he could guard Jordan. MJ responded by dropping 49 on him...and then sitting out the 4th quarter.

I didn't see all of his comments, but from what I did say he basically just said he didn't really know what Lin was doing.  I don't see how that's "laughing at the thought of Jeremy Lin."  The guy had started in 3 games.  I didn't know what he was doing until after that 3rd game either, and I'm sure Kobe is a bit more busy and doesn't watch as much as ESPN as I do.  My guess is Kobe was busy preparing for the opponents directly in front of him than worrying about a guy who was sleeping on his brother's couch at NYU who he was going to play a week later, and that following those comments he went and watched video of Lin, seeing that the Knicks were the Lakers next opponent at that point, but not before then.  Also, I'm not sure about Lin "completely outplaying" Kobe.  Did he outplay him?  Yes.  But 38 points, 7 assists, 4 rebounds, 6 turnovers for Lin vs. 34 points, 10 rebounds, 1 assist, and 3 turnovers is not a one-sided affair at all.

And the difference between Stackhouse saying he would guard Jordan and Jordan going off and the Knicks vs. Lakers game is that Lin didn't say a word about outplaying Kobe.  If you made this argument about Lebron I could see where you're going, but if there's one player in the NBA who has the competitive fire and determination that MJ had it's Kobe.

[MerrittsMustache]

I didn't see all of his comments, but from what I did say he basically just said he didn't really know what Lin was doing.  I don't see how that's "laughing at the thought of Jeremy Lin."  The guy had started in 3 games.  I didn't know what he was doing until after that 3rd game either, and I'm sure Kobe is a bit more busy and doesn't watch as much as ESPN as I do.  My guess is Kobe was busy preparing for the opponents directly in front of him than worrying about a guy who was sleeping on his brother's couch at NYU who he was going to play a week later, and that following those comments he went and watched video of Lin, seeing that the Knicks were the Lakers next opponent at that point, but not before then.  Also, I'm not sure about Lin "completely outplaying" Kobe.  Did he outplay him?  Yes.  But 38 points, 7 assists, 4 rebounds, 6 turnovers for Lin vs. 34 points, 10 rebounds, 1 assist, and 3 turnovers is not a one-sided affair at all.

And the difference between Stackhouse saying he would guard Jordan and Jordan going off and the Knicks vs. Lakers game is that Lin didn't say a word about outplaying Kobe.  If you made this argument about Lebron I could see where you're going, but if there's one player in the NBA who has the competitive fire and determination that MJ had it's Kobe.

Everything about Kobe is calcuated. He knew exactly what Lin was doing but he was shrugging it off because he's Kobe f'n Bryant and he needs to act like he doesn't care about some flash in the pan guard. It's like how he said he didn't know who Raja Bell was. It's all an act. Kobe is as phony as A-Rod, maybe even more so.

My point was that MJ never would have let a player like Lin go off against his team. When LA needed a stop, did Kobe step up, shut down Lin and take over the game? No, Lin shot lay-ups while Kobe forced off-balance shots (he was 11-29 from the floor) to try to match him.

[JWags85]

Everything about Kobe is calcuated. He knew exactly what Lin was doing but he was shrugging it off because he's Kobe f'n Bryant and he needs to act like he doesn't care about some flash in the pan guard. It's like how he said he didn't know who Raja Bell was. It's all an act. Kobe is as phony as A-Rod, maybe even more so.

In Kobe's defense, they were asking him some asinine questions.  He is arguably a top 5 player all time and they were asking him basically if he was intimidated by or would be he afraid to guard a guy who has played less than 10 complete games.

[shiloh26]

He's making Novak look awesome, too.

The Novakalpyse.  Novakiavelli.  Both seem to be based on the wrongful assumption that its a short "a" sound, but pretty great nicknames for Steve either way! 

Taken from: http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7570431/jeremy-lin

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

He is arguably a top 5 player all time

No freaking way. Not even top 10 and maybe outside top 20.

Jordan
Russell
Magic
Chamberlain
Jabbar
Robertson
Bird
Cousy
I. Thomas
Lebron
Shaquille
Dr. J
Hakeem
Duncan

I could even go Jerry West, Scottie Pippen...Steve Nash won 2 MVPs with Kobe in the league!

Theyre not all better than Kobe, but i could debate it. And I'm sure I'm forgetting somebody. Kobe's always been a black Rick Barry.

[Henry Sugar]

Took this from Basketbawful, and I agree with their assessment.  The Hitler meme is played out, but this one is funny.

http://youtu.be/1gnFgwbkr78

[jmayer1]

No freaking way. Not even top 10 and maybe outside top 20.

Jordan
Russell
Magic
Chamberlain
Jabbar
Robertson
Bird
Cousy
I. Thomas
Lebron
Shaquille
Dr. J
Hakeem
Duncan

I could even go Jerry West, Scottie Pippen...Steve Nash won 2 MVPs with Kobe in the league!

Theyre not all better than Kobe, but i could debate it. And I'm sure I'm forgetting somebody. Kobe's always been a black Rick Barry.

There are exactly 3 players that are definitively better than Kobe, hands down--Jordan, Chamberlain and Kareem (wanted to say the Big O as well but he aged pretty quickly). Then there's about 10 to 15 that are on that next level. Kobe is right near the top of that group and it could be debated that Kobe is better than every one of those guys.  If Kobe plays another 5 or 6 years and adds a ring or two--he could be knocking on the door of being in the top 5 hands down.

Cousy, Isaiah Thomas, Scottie Pippen, Steve Nash--that's a joke right? None of those 4 guys are even close to Kobe.

And I'm not a huge Kobe fan.

[We R Final Four]

Their has been nothing like Lin in recent memory.

He is also a devout Christian  .. the NBA version of Tebow? 

Tebow was a Heisman Trophy winner and a first round pick........Lin was undrafted.

The comparison between the two is weak.  The only simiarity is the created hype.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Cousy, Isaiah Thomas, Scottie Pippen, Steve Nash--that's a joke right? None of those 4 guys are even close to Kobe.

And I'm not a huge Kobe fan.

Not sure how old you are, but I would take Isiah Thomas over Kobe Bryant any day of the week. Under 6 feet tall and lead his team to two championships, including over Magic's Lakers. Also led Indiana to the NCAA championship as a sophomore. And he sure as hell didn't have a Shaq. In my mind (all subjective) he's an all time great. People seem to dismiss him because of his poor track record as an executive.

The other three I agree with you...just putting them out there. Although in his era Cousy was Kobe's superior in pretty much every way. How many championships did he win? More than 5, I'll tell you that. Putting Kobe Bryant in the conversation with Jordan, Russell, Chamberlain, Jabbar and many of the others is just misguided in my opinion.

[Benny B]

He [Kobe] is arguably a top 5 player all time...

No freaking way. Not even top 10 and maybe outside top 20.
...
Theyre not all better than Kobe, but i could debate it. And I'm sure I'm forgetting somebody. Kobe's always been a black Rick Barry.

Seems like PRN just proved Wags' point via dissent.

[MerrittsMustache]

Cousy, Isaiah Thomas, Scottie Pippen, Steve Nash--that's a joke right? None of those 4 guys are even close to Kobe.

People often forget that Scottie Pippen was arguably the second-best player in the NBA for a number of years and quite possibly the best all-around player during that time. Obviously the best player in the league was his teammate and also happened to be the best player in history. If not for Hue Hollins/David Stern, Pippen likely would have led the Bulls to the 93-94 Championship without Jordan and that team was definitely less talented than Bryant's post-Shaq Lakers. And let's not forget that Kobe was playing second-fiddle to Shaq for 3 of his 5 titles and 2 of those were gifts from Stern, including one in a playoff series against, of all teams, Scottie Pippen's Portland Trailblazers.  

[JWags85]

Seems like PRN just proved Wags' point via dissent.

Gracias.

And I never said definitively.  The man has 2 rings without Shaq, will end his career as the second highest if not highest scorer in NBA history, and was on the All-Defensive team for much of his career.  Putting guys like Nash and Lebron above him is laughable.  If Lebron had half the work ethic and competitive fire Kobe has, he would have 2-3 rings by now.

[wadesworld]

Gracias.

And I never said definitively.  The man has 2 rings without Shaq, will end his career as the second highest if not highest scorer in NBA history, and was on the All-Defensive team for much of his career.  Putting guys like Nash and Lebron above him is laughable.  If Lebron had half the work ethic and competitive fire Kobe has, he would have 2-3 rings by now.

No chance.  He would have 1, last year with the Heat.  The supporting cast around him in Cleveland was always AWFUL.  He absolutely carried that franchise on his back in every possible way.  It is truly incredible that the Cavs even made it to the Eastern Conference Finals at any time, much less NBA Finals.  That team, besides LeBron, absolutely stunk.  That had nothing to do with his lack of competitiveness or work ethic (not sure how we can know what his work ethic is...maybe he's in the gym shooting a million shots every single day).  He did absolutely everything he possibly could.  They put nothing around him, which is why I cannot blame him one bit for leaving.  Just look at what they did the year after he left.  They got the #1 pick.  From 2nd best team in the East to worst team with the loss of basically one guy.

[JWags85]

No chance.  He would have 1, last year with the Heat.  The supporting cast around him in Cleveland was always AWFUL.  He absolutely carried that franchise on his back in every possible way.  It is truly incredible that the Cavs even made it to the Eastern Conference Finals at any time, much less NBA Finals.  That team, besides LeBron, absolutely stunk.  That had nothing to do with his lack of competitiveness or work ethic (not sure how we can know what his work ethic is...maybe he's in the gym shooting a million shots every single day).  He did absolutely everything he possibly could.  They put nothing around him, which is why I cannot blame him one bit for leaving.  Just look at what they did the year after he left.  They got the #1 pick.  From 2nd best team in the East to worst team with the loss of basically one guy.

He is 6-9 and has no back to the basket game to speak of.  He's shown hints of it this year, but both Kobe and Jordan got one and it made them way more effective.  Lebron would be borderline unguardable, especially with his passing skills, if he could post up the smaller guys that guard him.

[jmayer1]

He is 6-9 and has no back to the basket game to speak of.  He's shown hints of it this year, but both Kobe and Jordan got one and it made them way more effective.  Lebron would be borderline unguardable, especially with his passing skills, if he could post up the smaller guys that guard him.

Why does it matter how he gets his points? He's basically unguardable now (unless it's the 4th quarter of a finals game ) How can a forward be any more effective than 28 points on .545 shooting?

[Hoopaloop]

Not sure how old you are, but I would take Isiah Thomas over Kobe Bryant any day of the week. Under 6 feet tall and lead his team to two championships, including over Magic's Lakers. Also led Indiana to the NCAA championship as a sophomore. And he sure as hell didn't have a Shaq. In my mind (all subjective) he's an all time great. People seem to dismiss him because of his poor track record as an executive.

The other three I agree with you...just putting them out there. Although in his era Cousy was Kobe's superior in pretty much every way. How many championships did he win? More than 5, I'll tell you that. Putting Kobe Bryant in the conversation with Jordan, Russell, Chamberlain, Jabbar and many of the others is just misguided in my opinion.

Kobe never played college ball, but if he had could have done the same thing.  We will never know.

The Pistons beat the Lakers with Magic hurt for almost the entire series and Byron Scott missing the entire series.  Most teams don't do well when their entire backcourt is in street clothes for the finals.

Kobe would be in the conversation for top 10 all-time, agree not top 5 but these types of arguments never yield conclusive answers.  The game has changed.  3 point line vs no 3 point line.  Zone vs non-zone defense.  Shot clock era vs no shot clock.  More teams to water down the league.  More travel makes it harder to get up for each game. The playoffs are more difficult now then in the past (remember the best of 3 series) in terms of games you need to win.  Different eras hard to judge.

[MerrittsMustache]

Kobe never played college ball, but if he had could have done the same thing.  We will never know.

The Pistons beat the Lakers with Magic hurt for almost the entire series and Byron Scott missing the entire series.  Most teams don't do well when their entire backcourt is in street clothes for the finals.

Kobe would be in the conversation for top 10 all-time, agree not top 5 but these types of arguments never yield conclusive answers.  The game has changed.  3 point line vs no 3 point line.  Zone vs non-zone defense.  Shot clock era vs no shot clock.  More teams to water down the league.  More travel makes it harder to get up for each game. The playoffs are more difficult now then in the past (remember the best of 3 series) in terms of games you need to win.  Different eras hard to judge.

You only need to win 1 more game with the 1st Round best of 7 added and you'd only play at most 2 more games. It's also easier for an underdog to win 3 of 5 than 4 of 7.

[Hoopaloop]

You only need to win 1 more game with the 1st Round best of 7 added and you'd only play at most 2 more games. It's also easier for an underdog to win 3 of 5 than 4 of 7.

Yes, you only need to win one more game but potentially have to play considerably more games.  The only 2 of 3 series you played 3 games max, often only 2.   Now the first round is best of 7.  Quite a bit of a difference playing 7 games potentially than 3.

Last year 4 of the 8 first round series went 6 games.  In 2010, four of 7 series went 6 games and one first round series went all 7 games.

[flash]

Kobe Bryant is absolutley one of the all time greats, he has won 5 titles, 2 of which without Shaq, and has been dominant for his entire career.  Right now, in a condensed season he is leading the league in scoring as a 33 year old 15 year NBA vet.  When it is all said and done, Kobe will be considered a top 5 NBA player. 

[MerrittsMustache]

Kobe Bryant is absolutley one of the all time greats, he has won 5 titles, 2 of which without Shaq, and has been dominant for his entire career.  Right now, in a condensed season he is leading the league in scoring as a 33 year old 15 year NBA vet.  When it is all said and done, Kobe will be considered a top 5 NBA player. 

He's also averaging the 2nd most shots/game in his career (30% of the team's total shots!) and shooting his lowest FG% in 7 seasons.

[MU82]

I guess one could argue that Kobe was "playing second-fiddle to Shaq," but it was Kobe (or even Robert Horry, after being set up by Kobe) who took every big shot in every big game during the 3 Shaq-Kobe title runs. Phil Jackson often had to take Shaq out of the game during crunch time for fear that Shaq would get fouled.

Kobe has won two titles without Shaq. Shaq wins nothing without either Kobe or Wade.

Scottie Pippen ... now there was the classic second fiddle. He NEVER took the final shot in a big game during the Jordan years. The couple of times Jordan didn't, it was Paxson or Kerr. Hell, in the 55-point game, it was Wennington! In fact, Jackson didn't even trust Pippen to take the final shot against the Knicks the year after Jordan retired, drawing the play for Kukoc -- who made the shot after a pouty Pip refused to go back into the game.

Pippen was a very good player who doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same MUScoop post as Bryant -- let alone in any argument of the greatest players ever.

Bryant isn't as good as Jordan was, but he is the closest the NBA has come to the next Jordan. Even Jordan has said that. Kobe is not top 5 yet and might never be, but he obviously is top 20 and probably will retire in the top 10.

[MerrittsMustache]

Scottie Pippen ... now there was the classic second fiddle. He NEVER took the final shot in a big game during the Jordan years. The couple of times Jordan didn't, it was Paxson or Kerr. Hell, in the 55-point game, it was Wennington! In fact, Jackson didn't even trust Pippen to take the final shot against the Knicks the year after Jordan retired, drawing the play for Kukoc -- who made the shot after a pouty Pip refused to go back into the game.

Pippen was a very good player who doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same MUScoop post as Bryant -- let alone in any argument of the greatest players ever.

I seem to recall Pippen hitting a game-winner in a playoff series against the Knicks (maybe Detroit?) fairly early in his career. I'm sure there were others but to say NEVER is simply wrong. When you have the greatest crunch time player in NBA history on your team, why would you draw up a play for anyone else anyway? It's not like the plays you referenced were designed to go to Paxson, Kerr and Wennington. Jordan drew the D and found the open man and that man who the D left open was certainly not going to be one of the 5 best players in the NBA.

Kobe is obviously more of a scorer but if Pippen was a better defender and put up better all-around numbers. For his career, Pippen averaged more rebounds, assists, steals, blocks, had a better FG% and roughly the same 3pt% when compared to Kobe. To say that he doesn't deserve to even be mentioned in the same post as Kobe is just ignorant.

Oh, and Jordan would have NEVER quit on his team in the playoffs like Kobe has done.

[MU82]

Oh, and Jordan would have NEVER quit on his team in the playoffs like Kobe has done.

Ummm ... look up playoff quitter in the dictionary and there's Pippen. Literally -- not just figuratively, but literally -- quit on the team in '94.

The Kerr shot ... during the timeout, Jordan told Kerr to be ready for a pass if the Jazz double-teams. Jordan sure as hell didn't tell Pippen to be ready.

Jordan himself would never think about arguing that Pippen was a better player than Kobe Bryant -- who, by the way, is considered one of the best defenders of the post-Jordan era.

I can't believe I'm defending Bryant, who is a scumbag, but please.

He is a classic go-to player, one of the very best in NBA history. Pippen is the classic second fiddle.

Sorry, but it's not even close.

[MerrittsMustache]

Ummm ... look up playoff quitter in the dictionary and there's Pippen. Literally -- not just figuratively, but literally -- quit on the team in '94.

The Kerr shot ... during the timeout, Jordan told Kerr to be ready for a pass if the Jazz double-teams. Jordan sure as hell didn't tell Pippen to be ready.

Jordan himself would never think about arguing that Pippen was a better player than Kobe Bryant -- who, by the way, is considered one of the best defenders of the post-Jordan era.

I can't believe I'm defending Bryant, who is a scumbag, but please.

He is a classic go-to player, one of the very best in NBA history. Pippen is the classic second fiddle.

Sorry, but it's not even close.

Where did I say that Pippen would never quit on his team in the playoffs? I said that Jordan would never quit on his team. Both Pippen and Kobe did.

Jordan didn't tell Pippen to be ready because he knew the double team wasn't going to come from Pippen's man. Just like (as I stated earlier) the double wasn't going to come from Pippen's man when Paxson and Wennington were left open. It's Basketball 101.

I never said that Pippen was better than Bryant. I said that it was ignorant to say that he shouldn't be mentioned in the same post.

Might I suggest that you start reading what I actually write and not what you want me to have written.

[MU82]

OK, dude. Relax. I misread a couple of things.

You win on that point, and I win on Bryant! 

[jesmu84]

http://www.hulu.com/watch/332847/late-night-with-jimmy-fallon-pearl-jam-sings-jeremy-lin

humorous cover.