Yep, I'm starting another generational thread

[MUBurrow]

Its a tough spot - MU has to "inflate" the sticker price high enough that the B- student from Winnetka sufficiently subsidizes MU's ability to grant scholarships and aid to the folks from underrepresented areas and populations, yet not scare off those underrepresented folks with that high sticker price. Kind of a zero sum game at some point, and I'm not sure there's any way to do it other than to set the sticker price where it needs to be and then hire really talented and energetic people to spread the word to the school districts and other extracurriculars about the economic realities ("ignore the sticker price") for underrepresented applicants.

[warriorchick]

Its a tough spot - MU has to "inflate" the sticker price high enough that the B- student from Winnetka sufficiently subsidizes MU's ability to grant scholarships and aid to the folks from underrepresented areas and populations, yet not scare off those underrepresented folks with that high sticker price. Kind of a zero sum game at some point, and I'm not sure there's any way to do it other than to set the sticker price where it needs to be and then hire really talented and energetic people to spread the word to the school districts and other extracurriculars about the economic realities ("ignore the sticker price") for underrepresented applicants.

There are no B- students getting into Marquette anymore.  But I get your point.

[Benny B]

There are no B- students getting into Marquette anymore.  But I get your point.

They are if they went to New Trier.

[Billy Hoyle]

What is the maximum amount given to the typical student for an academic scholarship (I'm not talking Bradley Scholars who when I was there got full tuition, if those still exist)? Many times an academic scholarship doesn't even cover half of the full cost of attendance for students living on campus (which they have to do for the first two years in school).

Also, many times the percentages of students receiving aid are deceptive as "aid" includes loans and student employment (MU says 98% receive aid).  I got an academic scholarship but no need-based aid so I took out loans to cover what my parents did not pay (I was fortunate that they could contribute a large amount). Meanwhile, my siblings went to highly rated in-state public institutions and had no loans. In hindsight.....

Some schools have reduced tuition costs. LaSalle did so a few years ago, dropping tuition over 28%.
"La Salle found ahead of the reset that this was indeed the case—some prospective students would view the university’s cost on its website, never to return, said Lucas."  I know that was the case with one of my early top choices, Colorado College. My dad vetoed it immediately based on the tuition.

[jsglow]

What is the maximum amount given to the typical student for an academic scholarship (I'm not talking Bradley Scholars who when I was there got full tuition, if those still exist)? Many times an academic scholarship doesn't even cover half of the full cost of attendance for students living on campus (which they have to do for the first two years in school).

Also, many times the percentages of students receiving aid are deceptive as "aid" includes loans and student employment (MU says 98% receive aid).  I got an academic scholarship but no need-based aid so I took out loans to cover what my parents did not pay (I was fortunate that they could contribute a large amount). Meanwhile, my siblings went to highly rated in-state public institutions and had no loans. In hindsight.....

Some schools have reduced tuition costs. LaSalle did so a few years ago, dropping tuition over 28%.
"La Salle found ahead of the reset that this was indeed the case—some prospective students would view the university’s cost on its website, never to return, said Lucas."  I know that was the case with one of my early top choices, Colorado College. My dad vetoed it immediately based on the tuition.

Knowing that you really didn't mean 'typical', the best scholly short of the special ones are just north of 50% tuition.  To get one of those, you best have about a 4.0 (with that extra AP bump), play a couple sports/activities holding leadership positions,  and write about a 33-34ish on your ACT.  Even then, your MU merit package will be weaker than one the competition offers.  That's an endowment problem.

[4everwarriors]

How many National Merit Finalists enroll at MU and what does MU offer that very select group?

[warriorchick]

They are if they went to New Trier.

For the class of 2021, the literally accepted 0% of students that were in the bottom half of their class. And I can guarantee you that a B- student at New Trier is not in the top half of his class.

http://www.mu.edu/about/student-demographics.php

The median student in the class of 2021 was in the 78th percentile in terms of class rank.

http://www.mu.edu/oira/fresh-dash.shtml

[dgies9156]

For the class of 2021, the literally accepted 0% of students that were in the bottom half of their class. And I can guarantee you that a B- student at New Trier is not in the top half of his class.

http://www.mu.edu/about/student-demographics.php

The median student in the class of 2021 was in the 78th percentile in terms of class rank.

http://www.mu.edu/oira/fresh-dash.shtml

A couple of thoughts:

   1) My children's high school in the North Suburbs doesn't even rank its students.  My own experience has been that rankings are more an art than a science anyway but...
   2) If the average MU ACT is 33/34, then there's been a bit of ACT inflation since the days when I was at MU. No way MU students are THAT much smarter today than we were way back when!
  3)  Same for GPA. If a B- at New Trier won't get you into Marquette, then I can only imagine what our GPAs from the old days would be today.

It's been a lot of years since I was in high school and college (more than I want to remember, but that is beside the point). But good grief.

[Benny B]

A couple of thoughts:

   1) My children's high school in the North Suburbs doesn't even rank its students.  My own experience has been that rankings are more an art than a science anyway but...
   2) If the average MU ACT is 33/34, then there's been a bit of ACT inflation since the days when I was at MU. No way MU students are THAT much smarter today than we were way back when!
  3)  Same for GPA. If a B- at New Trier won't get you into Marquette, then I can only imagine what our GPAs from the old days would be today.

It's been a lot of years since I was in high school and college (more than I want to remember, but that is beside the point). But good grief.

It sounds like grade inflation has been on par with tuition inflation over the past 20 years.  In 1996, a 33 on the ACT was 99th percentile nationally.

[warriorchick]

A couple of thoughts:

   1) My children's high school in the North Suburbs doesn't even rank its students.  My own experience has been that rankings are more an art than a science anyway but...
   2) If the average MU ACT is 33/34, then there's been a bit of ACT inflation since the days when I was at MU. No way MU students are THAT much smarter today than we were way back when!
  3)  Same for GPA. If a B- at New Trier won't get you into Marquette, then I can only imagine what our GPAs from the old days would be today.

It's been a lot of years since I was in high school and college (more than I want to remember, but that is beside the point). But good grief.

Where do you see that the average is a 33-34?  I am seeing 27 on the link.

[warriorchick]

It sounds like grade inflation has been on par with tuition inflation over the past 20 years.  In 1996, a 33 on the ACT was 99th percentile nationally.

It still is, at least as recently as 2012.

[MU82]

Given my HS grades and SAT scores, there is a 0.00% chance I would have gotten into Marquette today.

Which, of course, would have been Marquette's loss.

So there!

[forgetful]

The question is, how much of the debt to salary ratio in total is represented by the insane example represented in this article.....$200,000 debt to obtain an English Major.....how is that every economically justified??? If you told me the person took on $200K in debt to get a STEM degree and the same principles were at work, you have something but the anecdotal evidence the article depends on is stupid insane.

This statement is ill-advised.  A student who used to work in my lab, was an English and Music double major, at a school with total cost of education well over $50k.  By your statement he was stupid insane.

He got a full-ride to one of the top medical schools in the country, who allowed him to defer his start date so he can complete a Fulbright first. 

One of the smartest people, and most amazing humans I've ever met. 

[mu03eng]

This statement is ill-advised.  A student who used to work in my lab, was an English and Music double major, at a school with total cost of education well over $50k.  By your statement he was stupid insane.

He got a full-ride to one of the top medical schools in the country, who allowed him to defer his start date so he can complete a Fulbright first. 

One of the smartest people, and most amazing humans I've ever met.

First, the stupid insane was in reference to the article using that particular anecdote to anchor the premise to, not the act of getting an English degree.

Second, your co-worker sounds like they had a great plan to account for the student debt they were taking on so that's great. It's fair to say I was perhaps too generic but I stand by the premise that if you can't tie a degree to a viable career plan that can support a high level of debt and/or you are comfortable at a high ratio like TAMU I'm not going to be sympathetic to your plight

[mu_hilltopper]

Where do you see that the average is a 33-34?  I am seeing 27 on the link.

Confirmed .. MU's own page shows 26.8 as the average ACT for recent freshman.

32+ is for Ivy Leagues and the like.  Yale 32+, MIT 33+, Harvard 32+.  Stanford 31+.

Marquette is a magnitude+ lower. 

[Benny B]

Confirmed .. MU's own page shows 26.8 as the average ACT for recent freshman.

32+ is for Ivy Leagues and the like.  Yale 32+, MIT 33+, Harvard 32+.  Stanford 31+.

Marquette is a magnitude+ lower.

Oh, Stanford. The Harvard of the Midwest of the West. 

[4everwarriors]

How many National Merit Finalists enroll at MU and what does MU offer that very select group?

Waitin' on y'all's answer, hey?

[forgetful]

First, the stupid insane was in reference to the article using that particular anecdote to anchor the premise to, not the act of getting an English degree.

Second, your co-worker sounds like they had a great plan to account for the student debt they were taking on so that's great. It's fair to say I was perhaps too generic but I stand by the premise that if you can't tie a degree to a viable career plan that can support a high level of debt and/or you are comfortable at a high ratio like TAMU I'm not going to be sympathetic to your plight

Got it.

In all honesty, the number of students who rack up $200k in debt with a degree that can never pay it off, and then complain, is a very small pool of people in my opinion.

But some fault can fall on Universities, but not necessarily in the way you describe it.  Many Universities are switching to models, where departmental budgets are solely dependent on the number of "majors", not any other teaching specific metric.  This has led departments to get creative in recruiting, that can often involve misleading statistics.

[jsglow]

A couple of thoughts:

   1) My children's high school in the North Suburbs doesn't even rank its students.  My own experience has been that rankings are more an art than a science anyway but...
   2) If the average MU ACT is 33/34, then there's been a bit of ACT inflation since the days when I was at MU. No way MU students are THAT much smarter today than we were way back when!
  3)  Same for GPA. If a B- at New Trier won't get you into Marquette, then I can only imagine what our GPAs from the old days would be today.

It's been a lot of years since I was in high school and college (more than I want to remember, but that is beside the point). But good grief.

It's not.  That the ACT required to get a max scholly.  The average ACT coming into MU is around a 28 for this year's class.  Too lazy to look it up.

[jsglow]

Given my HS grades and SAT scores, there is a 0.00% chance I would have gotten into Marquette today.

Which, of course, would have been Marquette's loss.

So there!

Not commenting on your background at all but the student profile today is night and day different than when we were there in the 70s/80s.  And those of you from the early 90s when the school was actually struggling?  Probably half that class couldn't get admitted today.

[dgies9156]

It's not.  That the ACT required to get a max scholly.  The average ACT coming into MU is around a 28 for this year's class.  Too lazy to look it up.

Too lazy or too indifferent?

I still argue a B- at New Trier and a mid-20s ACT probably would get you in, especially if the student was a legacy.

Arguably, if it would not, it's because Marquette has a huge draw from Northeastern Illinois. Now, if the B- was St. John Paul II High School in Hendersonville, TN, or Father Ryan in Nashville, with a mid-20s ACT, that may be another story.

Geographic diversity always has been important to Marquette.

[jsglow]

Too lazy or too indifferent?

I still argue a B- at New Trier and a mid-20s ACT probably would get you in, especially if the student was a legacy.

Arguably, if it would not, it's because Marquette has a huge draw from Northeastern Illinois. Now, if the B- was St. John Paul II High School in Hendersonville, TN, or Father Ryan in Nashville, with a mid-20s ACT, that may be another story.

Geographic diversity always has been important to Marquette.

I'm not going to say more because I don't want to share too much info but my experience tells me you're incorrect.  It's very tough to get into MU these days, especially in certain colleges.  That's even true for legacies.

[forgetful]

Too lazy or too indifferent?

I still argue a B- at New Trier and a mid-20s ACT probably would get you in, especially if the student was a legacy.

Arguably, if it would not, it's because Marquette has a huge draw from Northeastern Illinois. Now, if the B- was St. John Paul II High School in Hendersonville, TN, or Father Ryan in Nashville, with a mid-20s ACT, that may be another story.

Geographic diversity always has been important to Marquette.

Did the family also donate upwards of $500k+ to the University.  If not they are not getting into MU with a B- average. 

Not sure if MU has it, but a lot of schools now partner with Universities in Europe.  That "legacy" students can be admitted to, and then transfer back to MU if they do well. 

[4everwarriors]

Legacy don't mean chit, unless its coupled wit donor sheckles, hey?

[MU82]

Not commenting on your background at all but the student profile today is night and day different than when we were there in the 70s/80s.  And those of you from the early 90s when the school was actually struggling?  Probably half that class couldn't get admitted today.

I don't doubt that every word of this is true.