MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: NYWarrior on June 30, 2021, 08:24:01 AM
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It's a brave, new world in a few days with NIL. Todd Welter takes a look at what it could mean for MU
http://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2021/06/name-image-and-likeness-possible-impact.html (http://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2021/06/name-image-and-likeness-possible-impact.html)
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My dad (PC Alum and season ticket holder) is convinced that this will doom the Big East and college hoops. FWIW I think he is wrong and think this sort of thing has been going on under the table for a long time regardless of legality. I get his concern as a PC fan with a small market, smaller alumni base, etc. but I do think that St Johns, Nova, Depaul, UCONN, MU, Georgetown with large markets/student bodies wont be significantly impacted on the negative side.
Between playing at MSG for the tourney, the national reputation of the Big East, and having a great commissioner with Val I do not expect this to be anything but a positive for MU
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I don't think it will hurt Big East schools too much. All the NIL money for the big state schools will likely go toward the football team, and there may not be as much of a focus on basketball. I think that's where basketball-only schools can even the playing field a little bit. It also helps that Big East schools are in larger cities, so there might be an opportunity for better deals in those markets.
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Is the parking lot big enough at the Al?
https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/college-athletes-gear-up-for-influx-of-cash-and-pressure-with-name-image-and-likeness-rights-set-to-kick-in/ (https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/college-athletes-gear-up-for-influx-of-cash-and-pressure-with-name-image-and-likeness-rights-set-to-kick-in/)
Who on the team are we going to pay to post on MUScoop?
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I get the fear and hesitation for Private schools and smaller schools (and/or both). However, Marquette (and the Big East) have continued to show that they remain forward thinking and adaptive in pursuits to remain at the highest levels of college basketball. Just like the worry in 2013 when the basketball schools separated from the football schools - when many folks thought that would be athletic suicide - I believe it will be very unfounded. If anything, the Big East choosing to focus strictly on men's basketball opened up doors and opportunity for many HS student-athletes that wanted to be the focus on-campus and be at a school's top athletic program. Villanova, Creighton, Xavier, Providence and Seton Hall are all better today in the Big East than before the split (programs like MU, Georgetown and Butler have taken some steps back to their levels pre-2013, but still remain high-potential and valuable).
I think the reality that all of the Big East programs are in major media markets and in areas where college basketball is prized and loved bodes very well. The benefit of having all of our programs basketball-first, and majority continue to play at a high level, I think bodes very well for the adjustment of our schools into this new era of college athletics.
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I may end up proven wrong about this, but I think many are overestimating how much NIL money is out there for the typical college athlete and how influential it ultimately will be.
For local would-be sponsors, a deal with a rare player like Markus Howard - someone known to the common fan with a multiyear presence in the market - might have some value. But JimBob's Dodge of Waukesha isn't going to fork over a ton of money to put the Matt Heldts and Jamal Cains of the world in its ads or to press the flesh for the Memorial Day Madness sale.
National brands are going to spend college athletes only if the see it as a long-term investment/relationship that will continue into the professional ranks. Coke and AT&T aren't spending their advertising budgets on four-year players who might eventually earn a spot as the 13th-15th player on an NBA roster, but is more likely is heading to Europe.
I get that the argument is that wealthy boosters will fund sponsorship deals just to get a player at their favorite school, and I'm sure that will happen to some extent, but it is expressly forbidden by the rules and carries some risk for both the booster and the program involved. Given the neutered state of the NCAA, maybe not much risk at all, but there is a downside, especially if Mark Emmert ever grows a pair.
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Gonzaga should be concerned.
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I may end up proven wrong about this, but I think many are overestimating how much NIL money is out there for the typical college athlete and how influential it ultimately will be.
For local would-be sponsors, a deal with a rare player like Markus Howard - someone known to the common fan with a multiyear presence in the market - might have some value. But JimBob's Dodge of Waukesha isn't going to fork over a ton of money to put the Matt Heldts and Jamal Cains of the world in its ads or to press the flesh for the Memorial Day Madness sale.
National brands are going to spend college athletes only if the see it as a long-term investment/relationship that will continue into the professional ranks. Coke and AT&T aren't spending their advertising budgets on four-year players who might eventually earn a spot as the 13th-15th player on an NBA roster, but is more likely is heading to Europe.
I get that the argument is that wealthy boosters will fund sponsorship deals just to get a player at their favorite school, and I'm sure that will happen to some extent, but it is expressly forbidden by the rules and carries some risk for both the booster and the program involved. Given the neutered state of the NCAA, maybe not much risk at all, but there is a downside, especially if Mark Emmert ever grows a pair.
I think most of the money for the "average" athlete is going to come from monetizing their social media, so what school is going to have fans that are willing to follow these athletes on instagram and youtube.
In term of Jim Bob's Dodge, they may pay Matt or Jamal $1000 to come out for the day , but that is $1000 more than they were able to make before.
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Is the parking lot big enough at the Al?
https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/college-athletes-gear-up-for-influx-of-cash-and-pressure-with-name-image-and-likeness-rights-set-to-kick-in/ (https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/college-athletes-gear-up-for-influx-of-cash-and-pressure-with-name-image-and-likeness-rights-set-to-kick-in/)
Who on the team are we going to pay to post on MUScoop?
Today? Garcia
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I think most of the money for the "average" athlete is going to come from monetizing their social media, so what school is going to have fans that are willing to follow these athletes on instagram and youtube.
In term of Jim Bob's Dodge, they may pay Matt or Jamal $1000 to come out for the day , but that is $1000 more than they were able to make before.
More than enough for a plane ticket for a quickie trip home to Michigan.
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In term of Jim Bob's Dodge, they may pay Matt or Jamal $1000 to come out for the day , but that is $1000 more than they were able to make before.
I'm skeptical, but if that happens, that's great for them. I'm just not sure the average car shopper in the Milwaukee metro area would know who the eighth man on Marquette's roster is, or care.
But $1,000 isn't a lot of money in the big picture, and it's not likely to be determining factor in where a kid goes to school. If JimBob's Dodge of Waukesha might pay a role player $1,000, so might Mel's Chevy of Urbana or Ken's Ford of Ames.
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I'm skeptical, but if that happens, that's great for them. I'm just not sure the average car shopper in the Milwaukee metro area would know who the eighth man on Marquette's roster is, or care.
But $1,000 isn't a lot of money in the big picture, and it's not likely to be determining factor in where a kid goes to school. If JimBob's Dodge of Waukesha might pay a role player $1,000, so might Mel's Chevy of Urbana or Ken's Ford of Ames.
Agreed. I think most of the NIL will be through Instagram. I doubt many area businesses will put too much into individual players.
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I'm skeptical, but if that happens, that's great for them. I'm just not sure the average car shopper in the Milwaukee metro area would know who the eighth man on Marquette's roster is, or care.
But $1,000 isn't a lot of money in the big picture, and it's not likely to be determining factor in where a kid goes to school. If JimBob's Dodge of Waukesha might pay a role player $1,000, so might Mel's Chevy of Urbana or Ken's Ford of Ames.
Agreed, and as you mentioned the intention of this was not to induce a player to attend/continue to attend a specific school as it is strictly prohibited. What they might do is get Shaka on a larger deal, and have some bench players on a smaller deal. Can they do that?
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Gonzaga should be concerned.
Why?
I think they are one of the biggest beneficiaries of this.
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Gonzaga should be concerned.
Every Gonzaga non conf game is a ET prime-time event, every conf game is a PT ESPN game. They're a national brand, they'll be fine.
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If Marquette's athletic department was smart, they would have someone ready to call Dawson at 12:01 am with a six figure endorsement deal to stay. Especially because I'm sure other programs will do exactly that.
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If Marquette's athletic department was smart, they would have someone ready to call Dawson at 12:01 am with a six figure endorsement deal to stay. Especially because I'm sure other programs will do exactly that.
I would wager this will not happen. I am assuming the NIL portion dealing with endorsements could not happen until you are actually enrolled in that school. The NIL cannot be an inducement to attend/stay at a school.
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If Marquette's athletic department was smart, they would have someone ready to call Dawson at 12:01 am with a six figure endorsement deal to stay. Especially because I'm sure other programs will do exactly that.
That's an NCAA violation.
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That's an NCAA violation.
Dawson is enrolled at Marquette, so they can offer him deals. But anyone that doesn't think NIL is the biggest tool in recruiting and that independent companies that are not the universities won't be making these calls with contingencies are being naive.
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Dawson is enrolled at Marquette, so they can offer him deals. But anyone that doesn't think NIL is the biggest tool in recruiting and that independent companies that are not the universities won't be making these calls with contingencies are being naive.
They can't offer him a deal to stay. That is a violation. If they make an offer it cannot be contingent on him staying here.
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They can't offer him a deal to stay. That is a violation. If they make an offer it cannot be contingent on him staying here.
True. I’m sure it’s something like, “A booster is looking to make a $35k advertising deal with a star to be Marquette player.” That just so happens to get brought up in a conversation with Dawson or an AAU coach.
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Dawson is enrolled at Marquette, so they can offer him deals. But anyone that doesn't think NIL is the biggest tool in recruiting and that independent companies that are not the universities won't be making these calls with contingencies are being naive.
Yes, of course schools will skirt the rules. And everybody has their own comfort levels with Marquette being one of those schools (including Lovell and the BoD).
That said, for which independent company is Dawson Garcia's endorsement worth six figures? We're not exactly talking about a household name in the greater Milwaukee area.
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They can't offer him a deal to stay. That is a violation. If they make an offer it cannot be contingent on him staying here.
Sure it can. "We're looking for a local athlete for a one-year sponsorship of our product/dealership/business." And because Dawson is already at Marquette, those offers can come immediately with the "we'll sign just as soon as you're enrolled in classes" caveat.
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Sure it can. "We're looking for a local athlete for a one-year sponsorship of our product/dealership/business." And because Dawson is already at Marquette, those offers can come immediately with the "we'll sign just as soon as you're enrolled in classes" caveat.
We'll have to agree to disagree. This pretty much seems to be the exact language the NCAA is stating is a violation. It cannot be an inducement to attend/inducement to stay.
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Yes, of course schools will skirt the rules. And everybody has their own comfort levels with Marquette being one of those schools (including Lovell and the BoD).
That said, for which independent company is Dawson Garcia's endorsement worth six figures? We're not exactly talking about a household name in the greater Milwaukee area.
Individuals like the one that found $6M to can Wojo will have plenty of motivation. And market size will matter less than alumni interest. The monied boosters know they are competing not just with other schools, but with G League Ignite and Overtime Elite. We're going to see numerous deals in the $100k-$500k range and beyond. Welcome to the new normal.
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Sure it can. "We're looking for a local athlete for a one-year sponsorship of our product/dealership/business." And because Dawson is already at Marquette, those offers can come immediately with the "we'll sign just as soon as you're enrolled in classes" caveat.
According to an NCAA memo obtained by Dennis Dodds, schools shall post a written NIL policy that prohibits payments from boosters "in exchange for athletic performance or attendance" at that school.
How is "we'll sign just as soon as you're enrolled in classes" not in violation of that written policy?
If you're advocating that MU break the rules, OK. But you can't argue that such an arrangement isn't against the rules.
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Individuals like the one that found $6M to can Wojo will have plenty of motivation. And market size will matter less than alumni interest. The monied boosters know they are competing not just with other schools, but with G League Ignite and Overtime Elite. We're going to see numerous deals in the $100k-$500k range and beyond. Welcome to the new normal.
I really don't think so. I think you're vastly overestimating the perceived value of college basketball players.
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I really don't think so. I think you're vastly overestimating the perceived value of college basketball players.
I could see that type of money by shoe companies for locks to be lottery picks. Willing to gamble and have them engaged for a pro endorsement.
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I could see that type of money by shoe companies for locks to be lottery picks. Willing to gamble and have them engaged for a pro endorsement.
For sure, but that's a long-term investment that would carry over to the professional ranks.
Brew seems to be suggesting that local car dealers and dentists are going to be spending $500K+ every year on borderline all-Big East players that 90% of the market has never heard of.
I just don't see it, but maybe I'll be proven wrong.
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I've said it before and will do so again. The biggest beneficiaries of NIL changes will be people like emerging gymnasts, tennis platers, golfers and track and field athletes, provided they are university students and world class/olympic athletes.
Here's the MU Athletes who would more than marginally profit from NIL in recent years, while they were at Marquette.
1) Dwyane Wade
2) Markus Howard
I'd be curious about arguments for anyone else. The reality is we are in a professional sports town where MU has to compete with the Packers, Bucks, Brewers as well as the Red Rodent. We haven't had a coach who I think would have been a commercial draw since Al.
If you go back to the Al years, I'd argue the following additional athletes:
3) Butch Lee
4) Bo Ellis
5) Maurice Lucas
6) Jim Chones
All this said, I'm worried about NIL. We don't have the boosters nor do we have the depth of an alumni network that most Power 5 conferences have. Plus, our alumni are cheap! I fear when this is over and fully implemented, we're going to be road kill.
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We just bought out a coach and his staff to the tune of 8-10 million. I don't think our boosters are cheap.
We are top ten in basketball expenses. I don't think our boosters are cheap.
We just hired a guy away from Texas. I don't think our boosters are cheap.
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How is "we'll sign just as soon as you're enrolled in classes" not in violation of that written policy?
If you're advocating that MU break the rules, OK. But you can't argue that such an arrangement isn't against the rules.
The NCAA has zero authority in telling David Gruber or any other private company how they handle their endorsements. That is a ridiculous and unenforceable rule.
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We just bought out a coach and his staff to the tune of 8-10 million. I don't think our boosters are cheap.
We are top ten in basketball expenses. I don't think our boosters are cheap.
We just hired a guy away from Texas. I don't think our boosters are cheap.
Brother Lens, compared to the Power 5, the amount of money you're talking about is pocket change.
The buyout and retention of Shaka came because we're part of the Big East, have a large television contract and because the Jessies did a financial analysis that determined it would cost more to keep Coach Wojo than to start anew. We're Top 10 in expenses because of an institutional commitment. Our fans show up, but I don't count the season ticket holder whose only gift to the B&G Fund is the stipend to be a season ticket holder the same way I do people who the preponderance of their six- or seven figure contributions to the university is to athletic funds.
I'm not ruling it out, but I'd be surprised if anyone stepped up to pay out Coach Wojo's contract.
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The NCAA has zero authority in telling David Gruber or any other private company how they handle their endorsements. That is a ridiculous and unenforceable rule.
You're right, the NCAA can't tell David Gruber how to handle his endorsements.
But the NCAA can suspend or declare ineligible any player it deems to have been compensated in violation of its rules. Would be kinda dumb for Dave to give $500K to a player who can't actually play, right?
Also, the NCAA can require Marquette to disassociate itself from a booster who's participated in rules violations (see: Martin, Ed). So, perhaps Dave's reward for spending six figures to buy a player woiuld be losing his season tickets.
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Can we have Dawson do a Scoop welcome video for the website & pay him for it? Let’s start up a collection plate. I Got Five On It.
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You're right, the NCAA can't tell David Gruber how to handle his endorsements.
But the NCAA can suspend or declare ineligible any player it deems to have been compensated in violation of its rules. Would be kinda dumb for Dave to give $500K to a player who can't actually play, right?
Also, the NCAA can require Marquette to disassociate itself from a booster who's participated in rules violations (see: Martin, Ed). So, perhaps Dave's reward for spending six figures to buy a player woiuld be losing his season tickets.
Schools are allowed to use past NIL deals for recruiting. Once the first deal is struck, all of the ability to prevent enticement goes out the door. This is completely unenforceable and it's laughable to suggest otherwise. The NCAA screwed up by dragging their feet and by saying whatever the school decides is cool pretty much means they gave up any pretense of policing this.
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How much longer until a set of schools realize the NCAA does not provide them enough value and walk away? I'm guessing it will start with a set of football schools or the ivy league.
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How much longer until a set of schools realize the NCAA does not provide them enough value and walk away? I'm guessing it will start with a set of football schools or the ivy league.
Who is going to run all of their tournaments for non-revenue sports
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Can the school offer a player a percentage of sales with their name/number sold at the spirit shop. I imagine quite a few students/alums would purchase MU gear knowing some of it is going to the player.
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My dad (PC Alum and season ticket holder) is convinced that this will doom the Big East and college hoops. FWIW I think he is wrong and think this sort of thing has been going on under the table for a long time regardless of legality. I get his concern as a PC fan with a small market, smaller alumni base, etc. but I do think that St Johns, Nova, Depaul, UCONN, MU, Georgetown with large markets/student bodies wont be significantly impacted on the negative side.
Between playing at MSG for the tourney, the national reputation of the Big East, and having a great commissioner with Val I do not expect this to be anything but a positive for MU
I'm in the same camp as your dad; perhaps a generational thing. I do hope we're wrong.
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Schools are allowed to use past NIL deals for recruiting. Once the first deal is struck, all of the ability to prevent enticement goes out the door. This is completely unenforceable and it's laughable to suggest otherwise. The NCAA screwed up by dragging their feet and by saying whatever the school decides is cool pretty much means they gave up any pretense of policing this.
None of this contradicts what I've written here.
You've just shifted from "it's not against the rules" to "the rules are unenforceable."
And I think it's probably way more enforceable than how it's been done for the last century, which was entirely under the table. At least here you're going to have actual contracts, numbers and transactions occurring between known entities.
Also, fwiw, if you read the legislation passed by states on this, they also ban students from being compensated in exchange for attending a particular school.
For example, the Illinois bill reads:
" A student-athlete may not earn compensation in exchange for the student-athlete's athletic ability or participation in intercollegiate athletics or sports competition or agreement or willingness to attend a postsecondary educational institution."
Texas' biill reads:
A student athlete may not enter into a contract for the use of the student athlete's name, image, or likeness if (C) the compensation for the use of the student athlete's name, image, or likeness is provided (i) in exchange for athletic performance or attendance at the institution
The Florida bill:
"such compensation may not be provided in exchange for athletic performance or attendance at a particular institution and may only be provided by a third party unaffiliated with the intercollegiate athlete’s postsecondary educational institution."
Georgia:
A student athlete at a postsecondary educational institution may earn compensation for the use of his or her name, image, or likeness. Such compensation must be commensurate with the market value of the authorized use of the student athlete's name, image, or likeness. Such compensation may not be provided in exchange, in whole or in part, for a current or prospective student athlete to attend, participate, or perform at a particular postsecondary educational institution.
So, not only is what you're suggesting expressly prohibited by the NCAA, but also state law where NIL legislation has been passed (and copycat bills will be passed eventually in all states).
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https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/college/2021/06/30/ncaa-adopts-name-image-likeness-policy/7813970002/ (https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/college/2021/06/30/ncaa-adopts-name-image-likeness-policy/7813970002/)
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They can't offer him a deal to stay. That is a violation. If they make an offer it cannot be contingent on him staying here.
They could offer him a deal and say it was not contingent on him staying. How could they prove it was?
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They could offer him a deal and say it was not contingent on him staying. How could they prove it was?
They likely couldn't. But the athlete could sign the deal today and transfer tomorrow, and the sponsor would have no legal recourse.
I guess it all depends on how much you trust a 17- or 18-year-old with six figures of your money.
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They could offer him a deal and say it was not contingent on him staying. How could they prove it was?
Like they have found out other violations , eventually word gets around. They investigate and find violations by talking to former players.
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We just bought out a coach and his staff to the tune of 8-10 million. I don't think our boosters are cheap.
We are top ten in basketball expenses. I don't think our boosters are cheap.
We just hired a guy away from Texas. I don't think our boosters are cheap.
They just took the guy from Texas because no buyout.
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Can we have Dawson do a Scoop welcome video for the website & pay him for it? Let’s start up a collection plate. I Got Five On It.
You mean 5k, right? If people here only knew how wealthy you are.
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Can the school offer a player a percentage of sales with their name/number sold at the spirit shop. I imagine quite a few students/alums would purchase MU gear knowing some of it is going to the player.
Hopefully they don't prevent that. To me it would be a no brainer. Would increase sales.
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None of this contradicts what I've written here.
It's all irrelevant because the contracts won't materialize if the player isn't where the sponsor wants them to be. They'll be one year deals and based on where players play. The very existence of these laws means those clauses are irrelevant.
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They can't offer him a deal to stay. That is a violation. If they make an offer it cannot be contingent on him staying here.
Schools cannot directly or indirectly arrange deals either.
This will benefit stars, not many others though. It’s social media where kids are going to benefit. Just wait until a MU SA wants to start doing Only Fans and see how MU reacts to that.
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As stated previously, the payments to players will have nothing or little to do with value to a business. Booster have paid big money in the past with zero expectations of ROI except a better team.
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As stated previously, the payments to players will have nothing or little to do with value to a business. Booster have paid big money in the past with zero expectations of ROI except a better team.
You make it seem like it will be a free for all, it won't be.
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As stated previously, the payments to players will have nothing or little to do with value to a business. Booster have paid big money in the past with zero expectations of ROI except a better team.
However, players have to disclose every deal to their compliance offices. Failure to do so can result in ineligibility
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None of this contradicts what I've written here.
You've just shifted from "it's not against the rules" to "the rules are unenforceable."
And I think it's probably way more enforceable than how it's been done for the last century, which was entirely under the table. At least here you're going to have actual contracts, numbers and transactions occurring between known entities.
Also, fwiw, if you read the legislation passed by states on this, they also ban students from being compensated in exchange for attending a particular school.
For example, the Illinois bill reads:
" A student-athlete may not earn compensation in exchange for the student-athlete's athletic ability or participation in intercollegiate athletics or sports competition or agreement or willingness to attend a postsecondary educational institution."
Texas' biill reads:
A student athlete may not enter into a contract for the use of the student athlete's name, image, or likeness if (C) the compensation for the use of the student athlete's name, image, or likeness is provided (i) in exchange for athletic performance or attendance at the institution
The Florida bill:
"such compensation may not be provided in exchange for athletic performance or attendance at a particular institution and may only be provided by a third party unaffiliated with the intercollegiate athlete’s postsecondary educational institution."
Georgia:
A student athlete at a postsecondary educational institution may earn compensation for the use of his or her name, image, or likeness. Such compensation must be commensurate with the market value of the authorized use of the student athlete's name, image, or likeness. Such compensation may not be provided in exchange, in whole or in part, for a current or prospective student athlete to attend, participate, or perform at a particular postsecondary educational institution.
So, not only is what you're suggesting expressly prohibited by the NCAA, but also state law where NIL legislation has been passed (and copycat bills will be passed eventually in all states).
So you don't compensate them for attending a particular school or in exchange for athletic abilities.
You compensate them for speaking at your company's sales meeting, or holding a meet and greet with customers once a month, or using his image in advertising, or being your "campus ambassador." The things you COULD still pay the player for are endless.
And The Georgia law has this doozy:
"Such compensation must be commensurate with the market value of the authorized use of the student athlete's name, image, or likeness."
However, market value is by definition set by the market, which means that in Georgia, NIL compensation by law must be somewhere between the minimum a player is willing to accept and the most a booster is willing to pay.
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I don't think people are cognizant of what's about to happen. There will be millionaires playing college sports by the end of the year. There will be 6-figure deals coming out tomorrow. This will be a sea change.
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So you don't compensate them for attending a particular school or in exchange for athletic abilities.
You compensate them for speaking at your company's sales meeting, or holding a meet and greet with customers once a month, or using his image in advertising, or being your "campus ambassador." The things you COULD still pay the player for are endless.
You're misunderstanding.
The rules are that the compensation cannot be conditioned upon attendance at a particular school, ergo JoeBob's Dodge of Waukesha can't say "We'll pay you for a meet and greet IF you attend Marquette University."
And The Georgia law has this doozy:
"Such compensation must be commensurate with the market value of the authorized use of the student athlete's name, image, or likeness."
However, market value is by definition set by the market, which means that in Georgia, NIL compensation by law must be somewhere between the minimum a player is willing to accept and the most a booster is willing to pay.
Uhhh ...yeah. That's not quite how fair market value is determined.
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You're misunderstanding.
The rules are that the compensation cannot be conditioned upon attendance at a particular school, ergo JoeBob's Dodge of Waukesha can't say "We'll pay you for a meet and greet IF you attend Marquette University."
So that can't be in print. It won't be in the contract. If you don't think it will be obvious, explicit, and unsaid while also being completely allowed by both government and NCAA because there's no way to prevent it, I think you are out of your mind.
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You're misunderstanding.
The rules are that the compensation cannot be conditioned upon attendance at a particular school, ergo JoeBob's Dodge of Waukesha can't say "We'll pay you for a meet and greet IF you attend Marquette University."
Uhhh ...yeah. That's not quite how fair market value is determined.
You need to get into the real world. There is almost no way to determine FMV for personal service. Some people make 10X others for doing the same work. Not saying it's right but it happens every day.
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I don't think people are cognizant of what's about to happen. There will be millionaires playing college sports by the end of the year. There will be 6-figure deals coming out tomorrow. This will be a sea change.
“LSU gymnast @livvydunne will be one of the first to cash in. Could sign $100K+ in deals easy this week.”
https://instagram.com/livvydunne?utm_medium=copy_link (https://instagram.com/livvydunne?utm_medium=copy_link)
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kinda like the good ole days-making sure the football fields sprinkler system goes off at the correct times, watching the grass grow, tutoring, etc etc. this is going to mess up "amateur" sports real nicely. no more eye's raised when buckets mchoopster drives up in his mclaren gt
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So that can't be in print. It won't be in the contract. If you don't think it will be obvious, explicit, and unsaid while also being completely allowed by both government and NCAA because there's no way to prevent it, I think you are out of your mind.
We seem to have reached the straw man portion of the discussion.
I have zero doubt that NIL agreements will be reached with an expectation that a player attends a particular school.. After all, a Milwaukee business is unlikely to strike an endorsement deal with a kid it expects to attend Penn State.
But this is VERY different than your initial post and some of your ensuing arguments, which were predicated on offering a kid (Dawson Garcia, to be specific) six figures "contingent" on him returning to Marquette for another season. You insisted that this was allowed, there were no rules against it and there would be no way to enforce it even if it were against the rules, all of which is obviously incorrect.
As for "that can't be in print," you seem awfully flip about that ... which, understandably, is easy to do when talking about other people's money. I suspect smart business people won't be as comfortable handing a teenager $100K with no contractual protections, merely in the hopes he doesn't have a change of heart or doesn't get a better offer elsewhere.
Heck, if your vision for how this all turns out were true, a 5-star recruit could collect several hundred thousand dollars from boosters at multiple schools and end up attending none of them.
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You insisted that this was allowed, there were no rules against it and there would be no way to enforce it even if it were against the rules, all of which is obviously incorrect.
It is allowed, especially in Wisconsin where there are LITERALLY NO LAWS TO PREVENT IT. The laws you cite may as well outlaw unicorns.
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It is allowed, especially in Wisconsin where there are LITERALLY NO LAWS TO PREVENT IT. The laws you cite may as well outlaw unicorns.
It literally is not allowed. Just read the NCAA rules. This isn't rocket science and using ALL CAPS doesn't make your arguments any less wrong.
The very first item listed under what the rules do not allow is:
"Allow NIL compensation contingent on enrollment at a particular institution."
https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/ncaa/NIL/NIL_PolicyKeyTakeaways.pdf
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I don't think people are cognizant of what's about to happen. There will be millionaires playing college sports by the end of the year. There will be 6-figure deals coming out tomorrow. This will be a sea change.
Your statements *may* be true. But it won' be as prevalent as you may be projecting.
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Not a Redick fan, but this is fantastic:
https://twitter.com/jj_redick/status/1410403487947558914
JJ Redick
@jj_redick
From 2004-2006, I would have made a bag Money bag on NIL endorsements. Sadly- I would have blown it all on Natty Light and Lacoste polos (with the collars popped, of course).
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Like they have found out other violations , eventually word gets around. They investigate and find violations by talking to former players.
So now we're going to have players ratting on each other and put the school in a position to deny this ever happened. So either the rule goes or this will kill college football and basketball.
NCAA: Did Markus get paid to go to MU?
Joey: Yes!
NCAA: Did you get paid to go to MU?
Joey: Hell No! Why do you think I left.
NCAA: MU can recruit only one player for the next 5 years.
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I don't think people are cognizant of what's about to happen. There will be millionaires playing college sports by the end of the year. There will be 6-figure deals coming out tomorrow. This will be a sea change.
I'm guessing there will only be a handful of athletes making big time money with the changes. Heisman candidates, blue blood one-and-done guys, and maybe a few talented transfers here and there in CBB and CFB. Most athletes are unknown on their own campuses, let alone to broader audiences, so I doubt we'll see significant impacts for the average athlete.
What I do think we'll see now are spirit shops selling player-specific merchandise like jerseys, signed photos, etc. that the players will get cut in on. And I would bet we'll see a huge influx of memorabilia sold online. Players setting up ebay or etsy stores to sell autographs or game worn shoes will become more common. We might even see cameo type services where players could get paid to wish an alum's kid happy birthday. But the value of most of this stuff is probably going to be pretty modest, but selling a bunch of $20 autographs probably still sounds pretty good for an 18 year old.
I can see a world where athletic departments set themselves apart from other schools by offering advisors to help the student athletes manage these kinds of stores/services and even provide financial guidance too.
And OnlyFans will definitely happen too. Sooner than later.
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I'm guessing there will only be a handful of athletes making big time money with the changes. Heisman candidates, blue blood one-and-done guys, and maybe a few talented transfers here and there in CBB and CFB. Most athletes are unknown on their own campuses, let alone to broader audiences, so I doubt we'll see significant impacts for the average athlete.
What I do think we'll see now are spirit shops selling player-specific merchandise like jerseys, signed photos, etc. that the players will get cut in on. And I would bet we'll see a huge influx of memorabilia sold online. Players setting up ebay or etsy stores to sell autographs or game worn shoes will become more common. We might even see cameo type services where players could get paid to wish an alum's kid happy birthday. But the value of most of this stuff is probably going to be pretty modest, but selling a bunch of $20 autographs probably still sounds pretty good for an 18 year old.
I can see a world where athletic departments set themselves apart from other schools by offering advisors to help the student athletes manage these kinds of stores/services and even provide financial guidance too.
And OnlyFans will definitely happen too. Sooner than later.
Given it's impossible to track I'd wager more than a couple athletes are on there now. It's one of my concerns with 18yr olds who represent the university. Would like some form of morality clause in their options
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Given it's impossible to track I'd wager more than a couple athletes are on there now. It's one of my concerns with 18yr olds who represent the university. Would like some form of morality clause in their options
I haven't read every state's NIL law, but the ones I have read include prohibitions on "adult" businesses (as well as gambling, tobacco and alcohol).
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I haven't read every state's NIL law, but the ones I have read include prohibitions on "adult" businesses (as well as gambling, tobacco and alcohol).
Well that's good
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I can see it now:
"Hi, this is Dawson Garcia for 'One Call That's All" and the Gruber Law Offices. You see, when I get angry at Coach Shaka because someone else is getting more shots, I don't write letters. That's so passé.
"Instead I make the One Call and guess what ... things happen.
"Remember, One Call, That's All!
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However, players have to disclose every deal to their compliance offices. Failure to do so can result in ineligibility
Throwing out a hypothetical. If Garcia would get an NIL endorsement offer today, who would he run it through? It's summer, and he is in the portal.
His instagram is now 11K. I wonder if it gets a big spike, then that might mean another school fanbase is getting behind him in order for him to make more $$
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I'm guessing there will only be a handful of athletes making big time money with the changes. Heisman candidates, blue blood one-and-done guys, and maybe a few talented transfers here and there in CBB and CFB. Most athletes are unknown on their own campuses, let alone to broader audiences, so I doubt we'll see significant impacts for the average athlete.
Disagree here. Bo Nix already signed a deal today with a large sweet tea brand. He's a bum, but he's QB1 at Auburn. Sure its not a million dollar deal, but I dont think its hard to imagine the QB at any D1 program or the leading scorer on any P6 basketball team having chances to make six figures.
A good friend of mine out of college was from Monroe, LA and went to Ole Miss. He joked that if you were a starting SEC QB for 1-2 years, your life was set. You could open up a car dealership or insurance agency, toss up a billboard with a picture of you shaking hands with Nick Saban or Dan Mullen, and clients would roll in. I think you greatly underestimate the cult of collegiate athletics in many places.
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It literally is not allowed. Just read the NCAA rules. This isn't rocket science and using ALL CAPS doesn't make your arguments any less wrong.
The very first item listed under what the rules do not allow is:
"Allow NIL compensation contingent on enrollment at a particular institution."
https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/ncaa/NIL/NIL_PolicyKeyTakeaways.pdf
NCAA rules are not laws. I didn't word that haphazardly. Wisconsin has no laws regarding this, and as Marquette is still in Wisconsin (despite popular belief otherwise) there are no laws to prevent it.
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NCAA rules are not laws. I didn't word that haphazardly. Wisconsin has no laws regarding this, and as Marquette is still in Wisconsin (despite popular belief otherwise) there are no laws to prevent it.
Just because there are no laws preventing something, that doesn't mean another organization's rules can't apply.
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NCAA rules are not laws. I didn't word that haphazardly. Wisconsin has no laws regarding this, and as Marquette is still in Wisconsin (despite popular belief otherwise) there are no laws to prevent it.
Did Wisconsin or any other state have a law against paying athletes or allowing them profit off of NIL? I really don't know. There are no laws preventing NFL teams from violating the salary cap.
Accepting membership into the NCAA, which has never been required, meant schools would play by the same rules. If schools don't like it they are free to leave the NCAA.
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Your statements *may* be true. But it won' be as prevalent as you may be projecting.
I'm not saying it will be the norm, but there will be a lot of high deals for top talent because boosters are now in direct competition with Ignite & Overtime Elite. And while not all deals will be big, Marquette has already had at least 3 current team members (Elliott, Garcia, Morsell) say their DMs are open for business.
When asked directly, Marquette administration said they are essentially waiting for state guidance and to check back in a few weeks. If that's where they are at while their players are soliciting endorsements, that's...not good.
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Did Wisconsin or any other state have a law against paying athletes or allowing them profit off of NIL? I really don't know. There are no laws preventing NFL teams from violating the salary cap.
Accepting membership into the NCAA, which has never been required, meant schools would play by the same rules. If schools don't like it they are free to leave the NCAA.
This is my favorite argument against NIL. The schools could choose to leave if they wanted to. They didn’t because they didn’t want to kill the golden goose. It’s why they let the ncaa fight this tooth and nail. The last thing they wanted to do was share the pie with the labor
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Disagree here. Bo Nix already signed a deal today with a large sweet tea brand. He's a bum, but he's QB1 at Auburn. Sure its not a million dollar deal, but I dont think its hard to imagine the QB at any D1 program or the leading scorer on any P6 basketball team having chances to make six figures.
A good friend of mine out of college was from Monroe, LA and went to Ole Miss. He joked that if you were a starting SEC QB for 1-2 years, your life was set. You could open up a car dealership or insurance agency, toss up a billboard with a picture of you shaking hands with Nick Saban or Dan Mullen, and clients would roll in. I think you greatly underestimate the cult of collegiate athletics in many places.
The QB1s at top tier schools will do well in all this, no doubt. For stars at perennial powerhouses, real endorsement deals from businesses will become a normal thing, and I think that's great. But it won't be the standard among student athletes. Paying for appearances might become common for local businesses, but that won't be big money.
There might be some big numbers that come out in the first few years the NIL era because everything will be new, and both sides will be testing the waters. But the idea of businesses and/or donors getting into the habit of regularly shelling out big sums to a constantly changing stream of teenagers seems a bit far fetched to me. Plus, I'm thinking this is all viewed as incremental spending for those who already close to athletic programs because the schools are still going to keep asking for money too.
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This is my favorite argument against NIL. The schools could choose to leave if they wanted to. They didn’t because they didn’t want to kill the golden goose. It’s why they let the ncaa fight this tooth and nail. The last thing they wanted to do was share the pie with the labor
I did not argue against NIL. You're trying to pick a fight where there is none. I simply asked if there were ever laws against paying college players.
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So now we're going to have players ratting on each other and put the school in a position to deny this ever happened. So either the rule goes or this will kill college football and basketball.
NCAA: Did Markus get paid to go to MU?
Joey: Yes!
NCAA: Did you get paid to go to MU?
Joey: Hell No! Why do you think I left.
NCAA: MU can recruit only one player for the next 5 years.
No not ratting on each other. Players have talked after leaving school about violations, it happens.
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NCAA rules are not laws. I didn't word that haphazardly. Wisconsin has no laws regarding this, and as Marquette is still in Wisconsin (despite popular belief otherwise) there are no laws to prevent it.
"Not allowed" and "not against the law" are not mutually exclusive.
This could all be cleared up if you just took the few minutes required to read the NCAA's interim rules. Those rules apply to all schools not in states with NIL laws, including Wisconsin and thus including Marquette.
It's not, as you seem to be implying, State Law or Wild West. It's State Law or NCAA rule.
And, if you read the NCAA rules and the state laws out there, they basically mirror one another.
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When asked directly, Marquette administration said they are essentially waiting for state guidance and to check back in a few weeks. If that's where they are at while their players are soliciting endorsements, that's...not good.
That isn't good. But the NCAA punted on this issue so many times that its hard to feel sorry for their members.
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Not a Redick fan, but this is fantastic:
https://twitter.com/jj_redick/status/1410403487947558914
JJ Redick
@jj_redick
From 2004-2006, I would have made a bag Money bag on NIL endorsements. Sadly- I would have blown it all on Natty Light and Lacoste polos (with the collars popped, of course).
Considering the weekly bag drop at the Duke hoops house was going in then I’m sure Redick was doing just fine.
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@PFF_College
BYU sent a press release prohibiting its players from promoting the following products:
- Alcohol
- Tobacco
- Gambling
- Adult entertainment
- 𝗖𝗼𝗳𝗳𝗲𝗲
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@PFF_College
BYU sent a press release prohibiting its players from promoting the following products:
- Alcohol
- Tobacco
- Gambling
- Adult entertainment
- 𝗖𝗼𝗳𝗳𝗲𝗲
I thought the Mormon church added caffeine to it's approved vices? Or was that just soda/energy drinks?
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ESPN has a brief article on some early deals
https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/31738893/ncaa-athletes-cashing-name-image-likeness (https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/31738893/ncaa-athletes-cashing-name-image-likeness)
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I thought the Mormon church added caffeine to it's approved vices? Or was that just soda/energy drinks?
A google search says they've allowed caffI have a toothacheted pop on campus since 2017.
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https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/3371772/dabo-swinney-said-hed-quit-coaching-if-college-athletes-ever-got-paid.-well-todays-the-day-pal
Is Dabo gonna quit?
Also, social media influence will have significant effect on who makes money. For example:
https://twitter.com/RossDellenger/status/1410379423056994308?s=19
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I thought the Mormon church added caffeine to it's approved vices? Or was that just soda/energy drinks?
It's more of a "hot caffI have a toothacheted drinks" thing. Work with a bunch of Mormons, and black tea and coffee are out, herbal tea is fine.
In theory, decaf coffee would probably be five, but the stigma of holding a cup of coffee would probably be too much
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The QBs from Miami and FSU launched a company today to provide a platform for athletes to leverage the new NIL rules. They're even getting into NFTs for student athletes. Seems like a great move for these guys. There's a real chance being a first mover here will give them a long term advantage.
I would love to see a MU alum or even the MU athletic department set up something similar specifically for our athletes. It's going to be interesting to see what kinds of businesses spawn out of this change.
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/31742166/florida-state-mckenzie-milton-miami-deriq-king-join-nil-platform-dreamfield (https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/31742166/florida-state-mckenzie-milton-miami-deriq-king-join-nil-platform-dreamfield)
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The QBs from Miami and FSU launched a company today to provide a platform for athletes to leverage the new NIL rules. They're even getting into NFTs for student athletes. Seems like a great move for these guys. There's a real chance being a first mover here will give them a long term advantage.
I would love to see a MU alum or even the MU athletic department set up something similar specifically for our athletes. It's going to be interesting to see what kinds of businesses spawn out of this change.
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/31742166/florida-state-mckenzie-milton-miami-deriq-king-join-nil-platform-dreamfield (https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/31742166/florida-state-mckenzie-milton-miami-deriq-king-join-nil-platform-dreamfield)
Problem with the NFT for college kids, the NCAA specifically prohibits NIL licensing in their uniforms.
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Problem with the NFT for college kids, the NCAA specifically prohibits NIL licensing in their uniforms.
https://opensea.io/assets/0x495f947276749ce646f68ac8c248420045cb7b5e/17926201474292735514708432151270353285852694365171529238292388182091368497153/
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https://opensea.io/assets/0x495f947276749ce646f68ac8c248420045cb7b5e/17926201474292735514708432151270353285852694365171529238292388182091368497153/
Right. So it looks like an Iowa jersey, but really isn't an Iowa jersey.
That is painfully cheesy by the way.
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https://opensea.io/assets/0x495f947276749ce646f68ac8c248420045cb7b5e/17926201474292735514708432151270353285852694365171529238292388182091368497153/
Nice touch to donate some of the $$
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Schools cannot directly or indirectly arrange deals either.
This will benefit stars, not many others though. It’s social media where kids are going to benefit. Just wait until a MU SA wants to start doing Only Fans and see how MU reacts to that.
No. That is wrong. There are 100s of non-stars that have big social media followings. Those players will benefit immensely.
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I don't think people are cognizant of what's about to happen. There will be millionaires playing college sports by the end of the year. There will be 6-figure deals coming out tomorrow. This will be a sea change.
I think you may be right, but what you are talking about is a different animal. These will be big-time stars that will be given big contracts by National and International companies (Nike comes to mind). Where Zion had to wait until he declared for the draft to get a multi-million $$$ deal, it will just happen sooner now.
Edit: Just noticed you addressed a bit this in a later response.
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Some coaches may love NIL - they won’t have to recruit anymore, just work on having the biggest NIL deals waiting for players.
major college sports are dead as we know, it’s now just for the highest bidders to buy their teams.
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Some coaches may love NIL - they won’t have to recruit anymore, just work on having the biggest NIL deals waiting for players.
major college sports are dead as we know, it’s now just for the highest bidders to buy their teams.
I remember when people acted all chicken little about pro sports free agency and how that was going to ruin everything.
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Right. So it looks like an Iowa jersey, but really isn't an Iowa jersey.
That is painfully cheesy by the way.
Oh absolutely cheesy. But money is money. Kind of like a certain local football team offering 'stock'.
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I remember when people acted all chicken little about pro sports free agency and how that was going to ruin everything.
Do you also remember when pro sports put in salary caps?
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Do you also remember when pro sports put in salary caps?
When part of a collective bargaining agreement with the players' unions? Yep.
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would it be a surprise if the biggest take home check is earned by Livvy Dunne, the LSU gymnast?
1.1 million followers on Instagram. https://www.instagram.com/livvydunne/
About 4 million on TikTok.
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It pretty much did ruin the MLB and NBA.
CBB will be a crap show with some players making peanuts and some making millions.
[ quote author=Fluffy Blue Monster link=topic=62078.msg1358149#msg1358149 date=1625163568]
I remember when people acted all chicken little about pro sports free agency and how that was going to ruin everything.
[/quote]
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If what another poster above said is true and kids can’t use their university as part of their endorsement (ie no official Marquette player jerseys), I’m not seeing much value for 99% of athletes for men’s bball. Keep in mind, there is no shortage of “influencers” already and college hoops is pretty niche as is. The ones I see cashing in the most are female athletes who have big social media followings. FWIW, I think it’s ridiculous these young adults weren’t able to make money online using their personal brand anyway. Being a YouTuber is just as valid as any other job nowadays.
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When part of a collective bargaining agreement with the players' unions? Yep.
And always tied to a roughly 50-50 split of revenues between players and owners.
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When part of a collective bargaining agreement with the players' unions? Yep.
Umm, ok. That doesn't address the issue you brought up.
The balance to free agency is salary caps. The 'chicken littles' at that time would have been correct if not for salary caps.
Why no outrage on salary caps? Free market should rule. The players are getting screwed.
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I could get onboard with NIL if there was some sort of team cap. And some equity that fixes a star QB gets millions but the starting guard gets peanuts but plays a key role in win.
When part of a collective bargaining agreement with the players' unions? Yep.
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Umm, ok. That doesn't address the issue you brought up.
The balance to free agency is salary caps. The 'chicken littles' at that time would have been correct if not for salary caps.
Why no outrage on salary caps? Free market should rule. The players are getting screwed.
The Curt Flood case was decided in 1972. There's still no salary cap in baseball 49 years later.
Why no outrage? Because the caps are something the players have voluntarily agreed to in exchange for other benefits, such as spending floors for each team. I don't know why you'd expect fans to be outraged for the players over something they collectively bargained over.
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I could get onboard with NIL if there was some sort of team cap. And some equity that fixes a star QB gets millions but the starting guard gets peanuts but plays a key role in win.
The starting OG at an SEC school (or any other solid Power 5 program) is going to do just fine. Do you think Elgton Jenkins' play is effected by Aaron Rodgers' national endorsements? Or by David Bakhtiari being used in Associated Bank & Cellcom spots? I mean he protects Aaron and lines up NEXT to David! Why do they get commercials?!?!
NIL is a fact of life now, just like the portal The schools that accept that and better yet embrace it, will flourish. Every "problem" is an opportunity.
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It pretty much did ruin the MLB and NBA.
Hardly. Free agency made both much more competitive.
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The Curt Flood case was decided in 1972. There's still no salary cap in baseball 49 years later.
Why no outrage? Because the caps are something the players have voluntarily agreed to in exchange for other benefits, such as spending floors for each team. I don't know why you'd expect fans to be outraged for the players over something they collectively bargained over.
You're correct, not a cap but salary tax. I guess NCAA players or schools could be forced to share money like MLB.
The main point is free agency has been balanced by cap/tax.
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You're correct, not a cap but salary tax. I guess NCAA players or schools could be forced to share money like MLB.
The main point is free agency has been balanced by cap/tax.
And the main point is that the cap/tax was voluntarily agreed upon by unionized players in return for other items.
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It pretty much did ruin the MLB and NBA.
We should revert to the ultra competitive pre-free agency days, like when the Yankees won 16 World Series in 27 years.
Or when the Celtics won 11 NBA titles in 14 years.
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would it be a surprise if the biggest take home check is earned by Livvy Dunne, the LSU gymnast?
1.1 million followers on Instagram. https://www.instagram.com/livvydunne/
About 4 million on TikTok.
Not going to let this get lost by the old men waving at the clouds
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We should revert to the ultra competitive pre-free agency days, like when the Yankees won 16 World Series in 27 years.
Or when the Celtics won 11 NBA titles in 14 years.
Considering attendance and television ratings, the public agrees that the current product is better than the previous.
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Considering attendance and television ratings, the public agrees that the current product is better than the previous.
Yeah, but the players knew their place
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Not going to let this get lost by the old men waving at the clouds
I don't get the Tick Tock. Is it anything like my generation's Short Attention Span Theatre?
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I don't get the Tick Tock. Is it anything like my generation's Short Attention Span Theatre?
TikTok is like if Vine was never bought by Twitter.
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TikTok is like if Vine was never bought by Twitter.
Now you're just making up words.
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https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/3371805/day-one-of-the-nil-and-weve-got-some-wild-endorsements-already-signed-by-college-athletes-across-the-country
https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/3371809/all-these-weird-deals-big-time-money-and-people-losing-their-crap-shows-nil-is-working-exactly-as-it-should-on-day-one
Chaos everywhere.
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And the main point is that the cap/tax was voluntarily agreed upon by unionized players in return for other items.
I understand your point but the original statement of fear that free agency was unfounded because it would create an unfair playing field was valid without a tax/cap.
I assume you think the the 10,000 + college athletes should collectively bargain with the NCAA. I'm good with that.
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You're correct, not a cap but salary tax. I guess NCAA players or schools could be forced to share money like MLB.
The main point is free agency has been balanced by cap/tax.
So players should benefit from someone else’s likeness?
Why do you think we should go full socialism?
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I understand your point but the original statement of fear that free agency was unfounded because it would create an unfair playing field was valid without a tax/cap.
Could you provide some evidence that any sport, baseball for example, was less competitive in the years between the start of free agency and the imposition of salary/luxury caps, than it was pre-free agency?
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So players should benefit from someone else’s likeness?
Why do you think we should go full socialism?
I despise socialism. And I don't like the idea of sharing someone's revenue but the post was pointing out that MLB doesn't have a cap like other sports, it has a tax that redistributes money.
The point is that pro sports has a system(s) in place to help balance competition. This is a good idea for the sport as a whole.
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I despise socialism. And I don't like the idea of sharing someone's revenue but the post was pointing out that MLB doesn't have a cap like other sports, it has a tax that redistributes money.
The point is that pro sports has a system(s) in place to help balance competition. This is a good idea for the sport as a whole.
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e2/5f/d6/e25fd607956c7a7ab10d555dea389ac8.gif)
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I despise socialism. And I don't like the idea of sharing someone's revenue but the post was pointing out that MLB doesn't have a cap like other sports, it has a tax that redistributes money.
The point is that pro sports has a system(s) in place to help balance competition. This is a good idea for the sport as a whole.
Socialism 101 LOL
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Socialism 101 LOL
Americans love socialism right up to the point you call it socialism.
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I despise socialism. And I don't like the idea of sharing someone's revenue but the post was pointing out that MLB doesn't have a cap like other sports, it has a tax that redistributes money.
The point is that pro sports has a system(s) in place to help balance competition. This is a good idea for the sport as a whole.
OK, but college sports has never been about "balancing competition." Schools get all sorts of different levels of revenue based on conference affiliation, etc.
But now that the student-athletes are getting in on the gravy-train it all of the sudden becomes a problem.
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Socialism 101 LOL
It's very far from socialism. Pro sports operate in leagues. The biggest goal is to maximize profits. If the Bucks or Green Bay or the Royals can't compete the the whole business model fails. Even the players recognized this and supported caps or taxes.
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The NCAA does have salary caps. They can only pay players the cost of admission.
Pro leagues do not have caps on NIL opportunities.
Trying to compare salaries to endorsements is apples to platypuses
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Americans love socialism right up to the point you call it socialism.
So true.
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I despise socialism. And I don't like the idea of sharing someone's revenue but the post was pointing out that MLB doesn't have a cap like other sports, it has a tax that redistributes money.
The point is that pro sports has a system(s) in place to help balance competition. This is a good idea for the sport as a whole.
This basically reads as: "I despise socialism, socialism is a good idea."
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It's very far from socialism. Pro sports operate in leagues. The biggest goal is to maximize profits. If the Bucks or Green Bay or the Royals can't compete the the whole business model fails. Even the players recognized this and supported caps or taxes.
That is the definition of Socialism. Maybe you're confusing it with communism? By the way lots of European democratic countries are socialist
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Disagree here. Bo Nix already signed a deal today with a large sweet tea brand.
And now Bama fans are swearing off Milo's Sweet Tea en masse.
Now that's what I call an unintended consequence of NIL.
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The NCAA does have salary caps. They can only pay players the cost of admission.
Pro leagues do not have caps on NIL opportunities.
Trying to compare salaries to endorsements is apples to platypuses
Trying to compare the NFL, NBA, MLB and NHL to socialism is apples to platypuses.
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Trying to compare the NFL, NBA, MLB and NHL to socialism is apples to platypuses.
You have no idea what socialism is. Maybe you use the definition of one of the insane networks?
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Curious. Could someone making a large amount of money from an endorsement pay his own pay and not use a scholarship?
Hypothetical: Marquette knocks $40k off Culver’s sponsorship fee and tells them to tack in on to John Doe’s endorsement deal so he can pay his own pay.
Is there anything prohibiting this?
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You have no idea what socialism is. Maybe you use the definition of one of the insane networks?
Haahaa!! Pro leagues are legal trusts. They far from democratic capitalism much less socialism. Any other businesses like them in the US would be broken up by the government.
I don't know what an insane network is other than CNN and Fox. I don't watch those.
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Trying to compare the NFL, NBA, MLB and NHL to socialism is apples to platypuses.
I'm not a part of that conversation. I'm talking about you equating salaries to endorsements.
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Haahaa!! Pro leagues are legal trusts. They far from democratic capitalism much less socialism. Any other businesses like them in the US would be broken up by the government.
I don't know what an insane network is other than CNN and Fox. I don't watch those.
Wow ignorance on what socialism is. Has nothing to do with legal trusts. Once you distribute earnings or wealth to create a level playing field, that is the definition of socialism. If you have a pension that is a form of socialism.
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Trying to compare the NFL, NBA, MLB and NHL to socialism is apples to platypuses.
Do you think China, Cuba, Venezuela and Russia are socialist? They say they are, but they are not.
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You have no idea what socialism is. Maybe you use the definition of one of the insane networks?
Socialism: Noun:
a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.
How in the wide world does pro sports apply to this. Most teams get tax cuts and stadiums paid for by cities or states. The teams are privately owned, so what the heck are you talking about?
You have no idea what socialism is.
Some people on this board are unbelievable.
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Do you think China, Cuba, Venezuela and Russia are socialist? They say they are, but they are not.
They are all proud communist countries. Not sure what that has to do with the billion dollar pro sports business that does not share $1 with you.
You're a strange person. I'm happy you're a MU fan but this crazy conversation is over from my side.
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They are all proud communist countries. Not sure what that has to do with the billion dollar pro sports business that does not share $1 with you.
You're a strange person. I'm happy you're a MU fan but this crazy conversation is over from my side.
No I'm a 60 year old MU alumni who keeps reading and educating himself beyond the great engineering education I got at MU. No, they're not all communist countries. China is the perfect totalitarian capitalist country. Russia is the perfect totalitarian mafia state that launders money thorough your dear leader that I confronted in early 90's and if all goes according to what should happen will get exposed this year. Venezuela was dominated by corrupt governments, Chavez tried a coup when he was a general for the right bc the president was too much to the left. While in prison he realized a coup on a left agenda would work. When he was released from prison he went for it, the military was loyal to him and he succeeded, bc he was paranoid he had a stupid uneducated Maduro as his successor (not the Chavez was any good). Cuba was dominated by US mafia and people eventually got upset and joined the revolution. Funny thing when Castro took over in Cuba, he reached first to US Government, when US turned him down he went for Russia.
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I'm not a part of that conversation. I'm talking about you equating salaries to endorsements.
My bad. First, I'm not opposed to NIL compensation, but pro sports have drafts and more equal revenue sharing. These make it easier for a level playing field that is good for the entire sport's league. Yes, teams are individual companies but they rely on the other teams so revenue equality is accepted by high revenue teams and the players because it is good for the whole sport.
If the Packers shut down and not show up for 16 games a year, who gets hurt?
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My bad. First, I'm not opposed to NIL compensation, but pro sports have drafts and more equal revenue sharing. These make it easier for a level playing field that is good for the entire sport's league. Yes, teams are individual companies but they rely on the other teams so revenue equality is accepted by high revenue teams and the players because it is good for the whole sport.
If the Packers shut down and not show up for 16 games a year, who gets hurt?
So in the interest of a "level playing field", the Power 6 conference should spread out their TV money amongst all the conferences, correct?
You say you're not against NIL compensation but for at least the last year on this site, you've posted nothing but negatives about it. I think you recently went so far as to say that college football and basketball being separated from universities was "right around the corner". When is right around the corner btw?
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No I'm a 60 year old MU alumni who keeps reading and educating himself beyond the great engineering education I got at MU. No, they're not all communist countries. China is the perfect totalitarian capitalist country. Russia is the perfect totalitarian mafia state that launders money thorough your dear leader that I confronted in early 90's and if all goes according to what should happen will get exposed this year. Venezuela was dominated by corrupt governments, Chavez tried a coup when he was a general for the right bc the president was too much to the left. While in prison he realized a coup on a left agenda would work. When he was released from prison he went for it, the military was loyal to him and he succeeded, bc he was paranoid he had a stupid uneducated Maduro as his successor (not the Chavez was any good). Cuba was dominated by US mafia and people eventually got upset and joined the revolution. Funny thing when Castro took over in Cuba, he reached first to US Government, when US turned him down he went for Russia.
<3 <3 <3
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For those who may know, or are good at Googling, how will the NIL regs affect foreign players student visas? Seeing the OMP is playing in the FIBA u-19 tomorrow, this thought popped up.
Also, does anyone have a link to watch these games? Curious to see how he plays. Also want to see Holmgren, the French kid Wembanyana, JUan Nunez from Spain (who has already played some time for Real Madrid), and Nikola Jovic (as opposed to Nikola Jokic)
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I see on Instagram that morsell is selling game worn items from Maryland. Is that legal under this agreement? I thought the Maryland branding on the items would make that a no go.
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Barstool’s involvement is interesting in that some states Penn Gaming licenses Barstool for their sportsbooks. Slippery slope?
I also find Barstool’s recruitment of female athletes to be very on brand.
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Since he is no longer a student there, he probably can.
On a related note, here's a nice anecdotal story of a typical basketball player NIL journey.
https://www.oregonlive.com/beavers/2021/07/what-is-a-jarod-lucas-game-worn-jersey-worth-with-nil-revenue-gates-open-oregon-state-guard-will-find-out.html (https://www.oregonlive.com/beavers/2021/07/what-is-a-jarod-lucas-game-worn-jersey-worth-with-nil-revenue-gates-open-oregon-state-guard-will-find-out.html)
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I see on Instagram that morsell is selling game worn items from Maryland. Is that legal under this agreement? I thought the Maryland branding on the items would make that a no go.
That’s an interesting question and the NIL can perhaps lead to lots of violations. Then what will the punishment be? Wow. Could get ugly. Hm
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That’s an interesting question and the NIL can perhaps lead to lots of violations. Then what will the punishment be? Wow. Could get ugly. Hm
I don't see any violations.
There's no trademark or copyright volation, as this falls under the principle of First Sale https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine). As long as Maryland gave him the shirts and had no further ownership interest, I don't see why Moresll can't sell his personal property. There's no trademark or copyright violation.
The other issue is whether the sale is prohibited by NCAA rules. Previously The NCAA had rules against this sort of transaction because it would enable a booster to "buy" something from a player as a way to transfer money to him. Now that the underlying money transfer is permitted, I don't know what violation would result from legitimately selling a product you own.
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I see on Instagram that morsell is selling game worn items from Maryland. Is that legal under this agreement? I thought the Maryland branding on the items would make that a no go.
Now that he’s gone from Maryland that’s ok.
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Barstool’s involvement is interesting in that some states Penn Gaming licenses Barstool for their sportsbooks. Slippery slope?
I also find Barstool’s recruitment of female athletes to be very on brand.
Perhaps, but I think it will be more of matter of leveraging Barstool’s brand equity and reach more so than the direct gambling content. They already posted about athletes seeing their IG follows explode after signing with Barstool. That reach can be monetized
As for the female athletes, sure, but thats gonna be a huge element of this. That LSU gymnast who is going to be a huge winner in the NIL development certainly isn’t cause she’s the next Simone Biles. There was a list of the highest followed players in the NCAA tourney, and it was a 50/50 split between stars like Bueckers from UCONN and random supporting players who happened to be attractive or active on TikTok. The game is the game.
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Perhaps, but I think it will be more of matter of leveraging Barstool’s brand equity and reach more so than the direct gambling content. They already posted about athletes seeing their IG follows explode after signing with Barstool. That reach can be monetized
As for the female athletes, sure, but thats gonna be a huge element of this. That LSU gymnast who is going to be a huge winner in the NIL development certainly isn’t cause she’s the next Simone Biles. There was a list of the highest followed players in the NCAA tourney, and it was a 50/50 split between stars like Bueckers from UCONN and random supporting players who happened to be attractive or active on TikTok. The game is the game.
My point was more around Barstool sponsoring active NCAA athletes, and the (perhaps) perceived interest of being able to gamble on said athletes teams on Barstool’s wagering platform.
I have no problem at all with good looking gals (or guys) taking full advantage to get endorsements. I just thought it was funny how open Barstool has been about it (not criticizing). I’m all for people getting every deal they can.
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Schools cannot directly or indirectly arrange deals either.
This will benefit stars, not many others though. It’s social media where kids are going to benefit. Just wait until a MU SA wants to start doing Only Fans and see how MU reacts to that.
www.onlyfans.com/iBeChillenDoeDG (http://www.onlyfans.com/iBeChillenDoeDG)
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https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1416134039950475282
Anyone notice the less than subtle product placement? Curious who got a cut of that.
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https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1416134039950475282
Anyone notice the less than subtle product placement? Curious who got a cut of that.
Nice.
That said, I am glad Todd Smith has been unleashed again.
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Who follows these guys on IG? Which player has a new whip?